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The So Called Problem With Hit Detection Is A Myth

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SoLJae ZionTCD Legacy Rising 351	Posted - 2012.08.10 18:49:00 - [1] - Quote I hear a lot of people whine about this issue and personally after playing for 3 months, I have NEVER experienced it. I shoot at people and they Die. People shoot at me and I Die. I think people forget that other players are beefed up with modules and skills and that it might take many "shots" to bring them down. They are registering, it just takes a lot of shots to kill. And then again some players (they are the last to know) are just bad shots. They "think" they are hitting when in fact they ARE NOT. CCP, please don't tamper with this so called problem of hit detection, as it is a MYTH.
carl von oppenheimer Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 158	Posted - 2012.08.10 18:55:00 - [2] - Quote Hit detection isn't entirely a myth, I've shot (sniped) more then one heavy just standing still from a side ways angle and no hits register until they move or turn. Of c. sometimes shield hit animation doesn't register (animate) either even if the hit clearly removes shield HP's which makes is hard to know if you actually hit or not.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.10 18:57:00 - [3] - Quote You must have good latency or havent ran into a ghost scout. The problem resides with compression lag where the client and server are both trying to compensate for your ping times thus what you see on your screen isnt exactly matching what you are shooting at on the server. So a scout 'dancing' in front of your crosshairs in this thoery can never get hit if its in effect and many scouts that know about this actively use it.
Benjamin Hellios Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 259	Posted - 2012.08.10 18:57:00 - [4] - Quote It's not hit detection but last night I was a tank gunner, aimed at an enemy, missile came out at a 30 degree angle going any which way except where I was aiming, what's up with that? A lot of times projectiles also seem to disappear into thin air.
Forlorn Destrier ZionTCD Legacy Rising 914	Posted - 2012.08.10 19:01:00 - [5] - Quote SoLJae wrote: I hear a lot of people whine about this issue and personally after playing for 3 months, I have NEVER experienced it. I shoot at people and they Die. People shoot at me and I Die. I think people forget that other players are beefed up with modules and skills and that it might take many "shots" to bring them down. They are registering, it just takes a lot of shots to kill. And then again some players (they are the last to know) are just bad shots. They "think" they are hitting when in fact they ARE NOT. CCP, please don't tamper with this so called problem of hit detection, as it is a MYTH. I'm of this opinion as well. I have no issues. Also, I notice that as my skills increase, and as I get the higher end weapons, hitting targets is easier. I'm of the opinion that "bad hit detection" is by design and is improved by skill and item progression. This is in line with how CCP manages improvement in Eve as well. For example, tracking speed in Eve is increased as you get better skills, allowing your guns to track faster targets so that when you sit something it does more damage. Also, CCP does have "glancing blows". If you are not staring right at someone, both of you perfectly still and within an optimal for the weapon, you don't do as much damage. Just because you can see someone, doesn't mean you are in the optimal ranges for the weapons. CCP like to give you "optimal" and "drop off" ranges. Optimal is the closest to you that you can hit with full power under ideal circumstances and drop off is when your damage starts being reduced. Yes, this means you can be TOO CLOSE to someone when you shoot and you won't hit them. Welcome to New Eden, and the game mechanics that CCP uses in this universe.
Mike Gunnzito 111	Posted - 2012.08.10 19:02:00 - [6] - Quote Not sure what kind of drugs the OP is on, but I'd love some! It is well documented. The hit detection is "questionable" at best. Earlier builds it was flat out HORRIFIC. Now, it's much improved, but still not good. Particularly for a game that CCP wants to be considered a AAA FPS (among other things)
carl von oppenheimer Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 158	Posted - 2012.08.10 19:03:00 - [7] - Quote Benjamin Hellios wrote: It's not hit detection but last night I was a tank gunner, aimed at an enemy, missile came out at a 30 degree angle going any which way except where I was aiming, what's up with that? A lot of times projectiles also seem to disappear into thin air. It's bug with moving vehicles if the vehicle is standing still you shoot where you aim, if the tank moves you shoot all over place so just spam like no tomorrow and how you hit something. Edit: Not sure if we have optimal and fall off in the game but from the looking at skills we have optimal at least. Fall off = 2x optimal range and 1/2 damage, roughly ... Actual EVE hit formula is here but unless I'm mistaken dust uses a more simplified formula.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.10 19:06:00 - [8] - Quote The other day managed to shoot a heavy suit and the and 3 shoots went right though him as though he wasnt there... It was the first time I ever lined up a mass driver shot just perfectly.
JonnyAugust Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 212	Posted - 2012.08.10 19:13:00 - [9] - Quote The people who say there is no hit detection problems either can't aim or camp tanks all day. Your opinions are invalid to those of us who understand weapon mechanics, recoil, RBS, lazy developers, pull, vertical and horizontal kick, crouching modifiers, ADS modifiers , hip fire modifiers, bullet drop (or lack thereof) , bad/good AR design, latency issues and lag, server side and client side hit detection. Tldr:: sit down.
Benjamin Hellios Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 259	Posted - 2012.08.10 19:14:00 - [10] - Quote carl von oppenheimer wrote: Benjamin Hellios wrote: It's not hit detection but last night I was a tank gunner, aimed at an enemy, missile came out at a 30 degree angle going any which way except where I was aiming, what's up with that? A lot of times projectiles also seem to disappear into thin air. It's bug with moving vehicles if the vehicle is standing still you shoot where you aim, if the tank moves you shoot all over place so just spam like no tomorrow and how you hit something. That's the problem, it was standing still. I'm just thinking I need to upgrade turret skills or something. I could be wrong about this but I think it's kind of weird you should get a skill just to prevent bullets from coming out of your gun sideways, unless it has nothing to do with that and it's just some kind of lag issue. Despite that it was the best game I had so far, made more SP and ISK gunning and hacking than I usually do in an entire evening on foot, so I guess I can't complain.

Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.10 19:15:00 - [11] - Quote JonnyAugust wrote: The people who say there is no hit detection problems either can't aim or camp tanks all day. Your opinions are invalid to those of us who understand weapon mechanics, recoil, RBS, lazy developers, pull, vertical and horizontal kick, crouching modifiers, ADS modifiers , hip fire modifiers, bullet drop (or lack thereof) , bad/good AR design, latency issues and lag, server side and client side hit detection. Tldr:: sit down. Then explain to me how I can get a rocket to 'wrap' around a handrail and change trajectory?
SoLJae ZionTCD Legacy Rising 351	Posted - 2012.08.10 19:24:00 - [12] - Quote Mike Gunnzito wrote: Not sure what kind of drugs the OP is on, but I'd love some! It is well documented. The hit detection is "questionable" at best. Earlier builds it was flat out HORRIFIC. Now, it's much improved, but still not good. Particularly for a game that CCP wants to be considered a AAA FPS (among other things) Hmmmmm....maybe that's the reason. Your stated love of drugs has altered your perception, hence an illusory "hit detection problem." Perhaps, if you give up your drugs, you will have better aim...idk
Debacle Nano Shadow Company HQ 639	Posted - 2012.08.10 19:25:00 - [13] - Quote I don't ever have any problems with hit detection.
SoLJae ZionTCD Legacy Rising 351	Posted - 2012.08.10 19:30:00 - [14] - Quote Debacle Nano wrote: I don't ever have any problems with hit detection. +1 for you my brother
JonnyAugust Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 212	Posted - 2012.08.10 19:34:00 - [15] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: JonnyAugust wrote: The people who say there is no hit detection problems either can't aim or camp tanks all day. Your opinions are invalid to those of us who understand weapon mechanics, recoil, RBS, lazy developers, pull, vertical and horizontal kick, crouching modifiers, ADS modifiers , hip fire modifiers, bullet drop (or lack thereof) , bad/good AR design, latency issues and lag, server side and client side hit detection. Tldr:: sit down. Then explain to me how I can get a rocket to 'wrap' around a handrail and change trajectory? Sounds hit detection problems and we are in agreement.
Skytt Syysch Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 235	Posted - 2012.08.10 19:35:00 - [16] - Quote SoLJae wrote: CCP, please don't tamper with this so called problem of hit detection, as it is a MYTH. CCP themselves have acknowledged that there are problems with the way hit detection has been working, and that they are working on fixing it. So... it must be a myth.
Mike Gunnzito 111	Posted - 2012.08.10 19:47:00 - [17] - Quote SoLJae wrote: Mike Gunnzito wrote: Not sure what kind of drugs the OP is on, but I'd love some! It is well documented. The hit detection is "questionable" at best. Earlier builds it was flat out HORRIFIC. Now, it's much improved, but still not good. Particularly for a game that CCP wants to be considered a AAA FPS (among other things) Hmmmmm....maybe that's the reason. Your stated love of drugs has altered your perception, hence an illusory "hit detection problem." Perhaps, if you give up your drugs, you will have better aim...idk lol, ok. Keep livin' in your dream world.
Whosa Leet 4	Posted - 2012.08.10 19:55:00 - [18] - Quote Skytt Syysch wrote: SoLJae wrote: CCP, please don't tamper with this so called problem of hit detection, as it is a MYTH. CCP themselves have acknowledged that there are problems with the way hit detection has been working, and that they are working on fixing it. So... it must be a myth. exactly. who knows, it could be lag and latency as well making the "hit detection" seem worse than it is. but whenever you shoot at people, and they become invulnerable once they lose all shield and armor and you're shooting them in the face. that is something, i'm not saying its hit detection but that is my guess. also, what about scouts that teleport 3-4 steps every frame per second? shooting right at them and they dont take hits... thats not a hit detection issue in your opinion? my gun game is probably way better than your.
Mr TamiyaCowboy Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 121	Posted - 2012.08.10 19:58:00 - [19] - Quote JonnyAugust wrote: The people who say there is no hit detection problems either can't aim or camp tanks all day. Your opinions are invalid to those of us who understand weapon mechanics, recoil, RBS, lazy developers, pull, vertical and horizontal kick, crouching modifiers, ADS modifiers , hip fire modifiers, bullet drop (or lack thereof) , bad/good AR design, latency issues and lag, server side and client side hit detection. Tldr:: sit down. like my sniper bullet, you shoot, know full well you hit the target bang on ( head ) and still have to retake shot. you empty a clip of 60 rounds into a dude and his shield does not even move let alone player is standing still. you launch swarms watch them smash into a tank and no register, you see this in line of sight. yet you can fire at a dropship and 30s later get a damage hit register, no line of sight either. the dropship has done a gtfo and still those missiles impact, but wait sniper bullets dont ? hmmm magic potions ? there was/are problems
crazy space ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2012.08.10 20:03:00 - [20] - Quote um... but in the patch notes there is afix for hit detection. The auto aim has been too strong and makes you miss at time. The patch notes state that it's been toned WAY down to fix the issue.

Devil Biff Imperfects Negative-Feedback 55	Posted - 2012.08.10 20:19:00 - [21] - Quote Hmm... I know that in previous builds CCP acknowledged hit detection as an issue. It seems vastly improved for the current build we have. But I think it is a "comedy of errors," so to speak.-á They talk about fixing the excessive auto aim, which I believe pulls the shots to where the target used to be. Which is why u have to lead alot sometimes. Also, in dealing with the scout, they reduced the amount that thy will jump around. I believe that this effected the mechanic of how they registered hits b/c the auto aim would pull ur shots to where it was. It was like it was always behind.-á Also, they discussed optimal range was adjusted for most weapons. I know this has been an issue too. For example, the AR is a medium range weapon, not short or long. It was spec'd like this. So when u were really close to a target and u would shot, it would do less damage, but u would see the hits register(especially against their shields). For example, I would sneak up behind the hills to take the scouts out. I could even stand around and read my mail sometimes. I would aim right at their heads and have to unload at least 10-15 rnds. All would register visually, just not stat wise. On the other hand, a scout zig-zagging toward me, I could lead and now down in 5-8 shots. Now, in real life, u take an AR, let it be a 552 or M4 variant, and aim it at a stationary target at 3ft and one at 30ft. They both go down in the same fashion.-á There r some other issues too dealing with rendered models and such. But the optimal range and auto aim could be culprits for some. I'm not complaining, if u've played with me, u know I get my kills. Just thinking through the issues though.-á
MrFancyMonocle Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 6	Posted - 2012.08.11 00:21:00 - [22] - Quote It might be beneficial to list what weapon you're using that you have or have not had hit detection problems with. I've never had a hit detection problem with my sniper rifle, but with a chain gun I have unloaded an entire chamber both zoomed in and not zoomed in 5 ft away from another player with minimal shield damage. It seems like some AR variants don't have as much of a problem with this.
SoLJae ZionTCD Legacy Rising 351	Posted - 2012.08.11 00:25:00 - [23] - Quote crazy space wrote: um... but in the patch notes there is afix for hit detection. The auto aim has been too strong and makes you miss at time. The patch notes state that it's been toned WAY down to fix the issue. You are wrong. There is no mention of fixing "hit detection" in the Precursor patch notes, as it wasn't necessary. You read waaaay too much into the line that specified that they fixed excessive auto- aim (which is a good thing). With all respect, you are seeing/reading things that are not there and trying to fit them to your argument.
SoLJae ZionTCD Legacy Rising 351	Posted - 2012.08.11 00:36:00 - [24] - Quote MrFancyMonocle wrote: It might be beneficial to list what weapon you're using that you have or have not had hit detection problems with. I've never had a hit detection problem with my sniper rifle, but with a chain gun I have unloaded an entire chamber both zoomed in and not zoomed in 5 ft away from another player with minimal shield damage. It seems like some AR variants don't have as much of a problem with this. I am sure that there are many,many weapons that players struggle with and blame the game for. This happens on EVERY fps. It is like a plague...lol (although plagues aren't funny). Just check ANY forum for ANY fps and you will see the ubiquitous threads of "This game sucks the hit detection is terrible!"
MrFancyMonocle Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 6	Posted - 2012.08.11 00:46:00 - [25] - Quote SoLJae wrote: MrFancyMonocle wrote: It might be beneficial to list what weapon you're using that you have or have not had hit detection problems with. I've never had a hit detection problem with my sniper rifle, but with a chain gun I have unloaded an entire chamber both zoomed in and not zoomed in 5 ft away from another player with minimal shield damage. It seems like some AR variants don't have as much of a problem with this. I am sure that there are many,many weapons that players struggle with and blame the game for. This happens on EVERY fps. It is like a plague...lol (although plagues aren't funny). Just check ANY forum for ANY fps and you will see the ubiquitous threads of "This game sucks the hit detection is terrible!" Hurm, can hit a pin's head with a swaying single-shot sniper rifle from across the board, but can't hit a player with a gun that sprays bullets like peanuts ejecting from the slapped mouth of a fat kid from 5 ft away (inconsistently). It must be me.
lDocHollidayl Imperfects Negative-Feedback 171	Posted - 2012.08.11 00:47:00 - [26] - Quote OP We get it. You do not think there is any issue with hit detection. I would suggest to kindly respect the hundreds that do. Maybe if I have time I could test. With NDA and all I am not jumping at it. Being way beta I am not jumping at it. Play a couple rounds with a proto scout in ambush. If you already have then very good, but to say that I am imagining mine is a bit dis genuine. Remember many bullets leave your chamber...if they all do not register when hitting there is an error. One can test this but like I said NDA and all.
SoLJae ZionTCD Legacy Rising 351	Posted - 2012.08.11 00:58:00 - [27] - Quote lDocHollidayl wrote: OP We get it. You do not think there is any issue with hit detection. I would suggest to kindly respect the hundreds that do. Maybe if I have time I could test. With NDA and all I am not jumping at it. Being way beta I am not jumping at it. Play a couple rounds with a proto scout in ambush. If you already have then very good, but to say that I am imagining mine is a bit dis genuine. Remember many bullets leave your chamber...if they all do not register when hitting there is an error. One can test this but like I said NDA and all. Who is "we" I always love when people pretend to speak for a nonexistent group larger than themselves! BTW...thanks for your opinion!
KryptixX Imperfects Negative-Feedback 321	Posted - 2012.08.11 01:02:00 - [28] - Quote i'm a "we" hit detection is clearly off, not to the extent as last build and i'm sure more than the next build
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.08.11 01:08:00 - [29] - Quote SoLJae wrote: I hear a lot of people whine about this issue and personally after playing for 3 months, I have NEVER experienced it. I shoot at people and they Die. People shoot at me and I Die. I think people forget that other players are beefed up with modules and skills and that it might take many "shots" to bring them down. They are registering, it just takes a lot of shots to kill. And then again some players (they are the last to know) are just bad shots. They "think" they are hitting when in fact they ARE NOT. CCP, please don't tamper with this so called problem of hit detection, as it is a MYTH. OMG I thought he was joking at first... No..? ..Oh dear, someone please help this man.
SoLJae ZionTCD Legacy Rising 351	Posted - 2012.08.11 01:12:00 - [30] - Quote J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: SoLJae wrote: I hear a lot of people whine about this issue and personally after playing for 3 months, I have NEVER experienced it. I shoot at people and they Die. People shoot at me and I Die. I think people forget that other players are beefed up with modules and skills and that it might take many "shots" to bring them down. They are registering, it just takes a lot of shots to kill. And then again some players (they are the last to know) are just bad shots. They "think" they are hitting when in fact they ARE NOT. CCP, please don't tamper with this so called problem of hit detection, as it is a MYTH. OMG I thought he was joking at first... No..? ..Oh dear, someone please help this man. Just tryin to lead y'all from the darkness of your delusions to the light of truth. Such is the burden and the cross to bear of all great visionaries and good aimers.



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