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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
363
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 19:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Here comments from a few days of playing. This is mostly about the FPS side of the game.
My FPS background is 15+ years, 99% of it in online multiplayer games. I fell in love with the genre with Wolfenstein 3D, and I've played every Quake and every Doom since. Other FPSs I've enjoyed for years on end are Tribes 2, Battlefield 2 and Team Fortress 2. I also played mods for years, including Tactical Ops, True Combat, and Natural Selection. Recently I've only played PS3 games, mostly Killzone 2, MAG and Battlefield 3. I've played EVE Online as well, but have no active characters at the moment.
I mostly play anti-tank roles, tank drivers, support/engineer classes, or snipers. I prefer objectives-based gameplay over deathmatch. Winning a game comes before KDR for me, even in PUGs with random people. I like playing as the underdog.
General comments:
- Decent FPS mechanics - I was a bit worried about this since CCP has no background in the genre. You've integrated many of the features expected in a modern FPS. There's still a lot of work to be done on balancing, and to differentiate the FPS side of DUST from everyone else. More on that in another upcoming post.
- Good game pace, not too fast or too slow
- Absolutely love the fact FF is on! Finally a deep FPS where you can't shoot everything that moves. edit: I'm an idiot, FF is off - I wish it was on
- Decent graphics
- Sound is ok, and surround sound gives reasonable help in determining where the damage is coming from.
- Great music! As a former EVE player I was immediately in the EVE Universe the second I heard it.
- Helpful and unobtrusive in-game voice announcements
- Forge gun charged shot can be un-charged by running or melee without losing an ammo. Is this by design?
- Quickscoping is in the game - do you really want that? I sure don't
- Bunnyhopping is possible, if limited - do you really want that? I sure don't
- Soon(tm) I loled
Bugs and issues:
- Spawn camping/base raping must be fixed.
- Hit boxes need to be fixed
- I get the occasional lag spike/rubber banding although my internet connection is good, and other games work fine
- Once I couldn't fire any weapon for several spawns, then it suddenly fixed itself.
- Aim assist is fiddly, especially when sniping
- How many goddam hits does it take to kill someone with a tank? Is this a hit box issue, or is this by design? It feels like the tanks are armed with potato guns.
- How many goddam hits does it take to kill someone in a tank with a Forge Gun? Is this a hit box issue, or is this by design? It feels like Forge Guns are potato guns.
Part 2 to follow |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
363
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 19:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Suggestions:
- KDR must go. It's not an accurate or even a useful way to gauge contribution to a battle in an objectives-based game. Players will do kills instead of trying to win the game. Even if you don't rank players based on KDR, showing it means people will still concentrate on KDR instead of points. If you insist on showing it, do it along with lots of other data, preferably not after every match.
- You should have the option to linger in the end-game stats window for much longer (2-5 mins) to check the stats, see what others did, and most importantly, to be able to chat with the people you just played with/against. Big part of building an FPS community is the camaraderie and smack talk after matches. All this becomes even more important in an MMO setting, and will be integral in making DUST's EVE universe into a world people want to return to. Give it a chance.
- When you switch a weapon while keeping zoom-in/scope-in button pressed, the game doesn't zoom in with the new weapon - you have to release L1 and re-press it. It would be more intuitive if the new weapon goes automatically to the state your buttons are in. If this is a deliberate feature for balancing, make auto-zoom-in slower when changing weapons. Same issue when running: pressing zoom-in button should force to walk and zoom-in.
- When you're crouching and hit run button, the merc should de-crouch start running.
- The weapon selector is fiddly. When you release it your stick is at one extreme, so your screen does an unwanted jerk.
- Move vehicle steering to right stick like everyone else does.
- It's unclear how Swarm Launcher works. I expected it to lock to something, but it didn't. I shot at vehicles, nothing happened - or so it seemed. I shot at people, they didn't die or take damage - or so it seemed. More visual and aural cues are needed for it.
- Own death notification is too small and not visible long enough. Suggestion to move it to center of screen - keep the kill/status ticker as is.
- Prone stance would be nice
- Show which way I am pointing with my turret/gun in a tank to aid orientating
- It's unclear what the points are that I get when killing someone or dealing damage to a tank. Are these SP? ISK? It needs to be clearer - perhaps a recap of all those at the end of the match.
- Popup when a skill is highlighted in the training screen, showing what the skill does
- Quickmatch option in the first menu when entering the game which puts you in a match mode easy to grasp for newbies. There were a lot of players with zero kills on many games, and that can't happen to a casual player after launch, or they'll ragequit after half a match since the game is F2P. Put them in a meat grinder game mode where they're bound to get kills.
- Way too much text to read, and too many popups. Less text, more tutorials and in-game learning. I know this is EVE and CCP, but this has to be addressed for DUST to succeed. FPS players don't have the patience or attention span of MMO players.
- Better visual/aural cues to show which vehicles I can enter, and how
- I'd prefer R1/L1 to navigate tabs and menus instead of the squishy R2/L2
- Option to view teammates' gameplay feed while waiting for spawn
- Trophies. You must have trophies these days. Here concentrate on objectives-based trophies instead of thousand different versions of "KDR of 10:1," "killing streak of 10" and "bunnyhopped 20km." There are lots of people who trophy hunt, so align trophies with DUST's game design objectives, and you'll encourage teamplay even in PUGs.
- Ping meter, I can't find one.
- Intro to n00bs to EVE Universe which must include information about the ruthlessness of the world. This is critical in retaining players who are used to essentially zero punishment for getting killed or stupidity (ie. 99% of players). Preferably demonstrated in a tutorial rather than in words.
- Some sense of scale is needed. The star map is a good start, but it should show where are active skirmishes, where DUST players are, where EVE players are. Now it feels like just another FPS, and you're in your own bubble. Give us something which gives us an idea of the awesome scale of the universe.
- I'm serious that KDR must go. If it doesn't, we'll get hordes of shrill-voiced bunnyhopping stabby-stabby CoD kids with the only objective to have high KDR. If we wanted that, we'd be playing CoD.
Parting note: don't try to please everyone! If you do, you'll end up with yet another CoD/BF clone. Find your niche, and fulfill our needs, and you'll have a steady stream of players who want to spend money on your game. From what I've seen with DUST thus far is promising, and you understand your customers. You need to balance better - especially vehicles - and ground the game better in EVE.
PS. Auto-save notification on this forum is driving me nuts - it gives the useless notification every five seconds, and moves all text one line down, causing constant miss-clicks. Get rid of it. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 19:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Some solid stuff here. Only thing I really don't agree with is the prone stance, but otherwise great... and yea, against the best tanks, the Forge IS a potato gun. You need at least two to kill it before it hides and activates reps. |
Malcolm One
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 20:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
"bunnyhopped 20km" Trophy. I loled
Giving some support to the OP. Good posts.
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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 22:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Good posts indeed. Plenty of good points. I completely agree on the KDR aspect, though I'm sure many of our fellow testers would be outraged if features like the Leaderboards were to be removed. |
Saiibot
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
142
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 23:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
If ccp DOES listen to EVERYONE then dust 514 will end up in a much more worse place than COD... it'll end up like MAG!! God forbid |
Icy Tiger
496
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 00:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Great points, and yes, the Kill Death Ratio must become a secondary objective, Win/Loss ratio should be displayed, along with Objectives, total score, and ISK Usage.
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Bresker Veyne
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
152
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 00:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Maybe show howmuch points a player has earned in a match instead of K/D. And if you're interested you can select the player's name and see the details on how he earned the points: kills, hacks, damage vehicles, ...
But a good commentary! Hopefully this'll get stickied or something. |
Legolas Winterbane
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 01:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
I totally agree with everything except the prone part but other then that GJ
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testguy242
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 04:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Arramakaian Eka wrote:Suggestions:
- KDR must go. It's not an accurate or even a useful way to gauge contribution to a battle in an objectives-based game. Players will do kills instead of trying to win the game. Even if you don't rank players based on KDR, showing it means people will still concentrate on KDR instead of points. If you insist on showing it, do it along with lots of other data, preferably not after every match.
- I'm serious that KDR must go. If it doesn't, we'll get hordes of shrill-voiced bunnyhopping stabby-stabby CoD kids with the only objective to have high KDR. If we wanted that, we'd be playing CoD.
Parting note: don't try to please everyone! If you do, you'll end up with yet another CoD/BF clone. Find your niche, and fulfill our needs, and you'll have a steady stream of players who want to spend money on your game. From what I've seen with DUST thus far is promising, and you understand your customers. You need to balance better - especially vehicles - and ground the game better in EVE. PS. Auto-save notification on this forum is driving me nuts - it gives the useless notification every five seconds, and moves all text one line down, causing constant miss-clicks. Get rid of it.
I agree with most of your post, but these quotes I really agree with. I think the K/D ratio display is responsible for most of the people who only care about kills tarding up the game at present.
It's also nice to see someone else who's been playing FPSes for as long as I have. |
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Jan Pac
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 08:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
I agree with all points! Thanks for the nice post! |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
363
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 12:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Thanks for the support!
As for prone, it's not something I'm passionate about and can definitely live without. If it was introduced, it would also require further balancing, and I'd prefer CCP to concentrate on bigger issues with the balance. Also from a game world perspective, it should be perfectly possible to create a dropsuit that's rock stable while crouched - even standing, although that's probably something we don't want.
Bresker Veyne wrote:Maybe show howmuch points a player has earned in a match instead of K/D. And if you're interested you can select the player's name and see the details on how he earned the points: kills, hacks, damage vehicles, ...
I like this. You could fit columns for kills, hacks, vehicle damage, etc., and players could even sort them based on any of the criteria. BUT the default ranking criteria should be game performance, not KDR.
It is still unclear to me how I gain points (in-game notifications), ISK and SP. I believe ISK and SP are tied to points somehow? Therefore it would make most sense to use either one of them for rankings after each game instead of KDR, or creating yet another performance metric. K.I.S.S. and all that. ISK would make most sense from game world perspective, especially since we are mercenaries out for money, after all. |
Karl Koekwaus
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
30
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 13:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nice list, I wanted to write some stuff about things like the scoreboard, going prone etc, but it seems you have it all covered :)
one thing to add, I really miss Bipods on heavy weapons and the sniper rifle, even without going prone, hiding behind a wall, having a Bipod would be nice to reduce gun kickback when firing and increase stability when aiming
Would Like again |
BluMage
18
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 13:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Good posts indeed. Plenty of good points. I completely agree on the KDR aspect, though I'm sure many of our fellow testers would be outraged if features like the Leaderboards were to be removed.
I think with the "Roles" and "Team player" feel of the game, maybe CCP could have different leaderboads for different contributions; Hacks, assists, heals, teammates spawned though uplinks, repairs made to teammates' vehicles, kills made from your LAV/HAV/Dropship while you are driving, etc. I think this would better show other players what kind of role you bring to the team and how you can be an asset to a future coporate employer. |
Ferocitan
22
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 13:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Some solid stuff here. Only thing I really don't agree with is the prone stance, but otherwise great... and yea, against the best tanks, the Forge IS a potato gun. You need at least two to kill it before it hides and activates reps. Also agree with everything except prone stance. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
363
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 13:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
BluMage wrote:I think with the "Roles" and "Team player" feel of the game, maybe CCP could have different leaderboads for different contributions; Hacks, assists, heals, teammates spawned though uplinks, repairs made to teammates' vehicles, kills made from your LAV/HAV/Dropship while you are driving, etc. I think this would better show other players what kind of role you bring to the team and how you can be an asset to a future coporate employer.
While this is a good idea, and is already been done in some other games, an FPS needs to have a universal, game-wide scoreboard and ranking. I don't know if DUST currently rewards each dropsuit differently, but that would make sense. In the end, the ISK you earn should be comparable between, say, Assault and Scout, and you should be able to rank everyone regardless of their role.
Karl Koekwaus wrote:one thing to add, I really miss Bipods on heavy weapons and the sniper rifle, even without going prone, hiding behind a wall, having a Bipod would be nice to reduce gun kickback when firing and increase stability when aiming
Perhaps nitpicking, but bipods are all but useless when crouching, unless there's a wall of suitable height in front of you. |
Mitchman 514
36
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 13:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Arramakaian Eka wrote:
Absolutely love the fact FF is on! Finally a deep FPS where you can't shoot everything that moves.
FF is on where? FF is off in DUST. |
D Park
26
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 13:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
Bresker Veyne wrote:Maybe show howmuch points a player has earned in a match instead of K/D. And if you're interested you can select the player's name and see the details on how he earned the points: kills, hacks, damage vehicles, ... Excellent idea. +1. Could use it's own thread about stats reported.
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Alixenus
Omega protection service
36
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 14:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Now I agree with most of what Mr. Eka said, however I have no issues with vehicle control as far as I can tell. Secondly a few people that I've spoken to find the pace slightly too slow (though these were guys who had just crawled their sorry selves out of nuketown) . Personally I'm happy with the pace. Third, swarm launchers can lock onto vehicles if you hold down the trigger whilst zoomed in. I often fire the missiles into the air once I have a lock so it comes down on ground targets like a mortar strike. lastly, those points that you score for kills/caps? I believe that they are war points, which are a way gauging the success of your corp in the trials (check the scorboard). However, additional isk and skill points are recieved for victories and contributions to that victory.
and what was wrong with MAG? I never played it. |
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GM Unicorn
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
467
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 14:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mitchman 514 wrote:Arramakaian Eka wrote:
Absolutely love the fact FF is on! Finally a deep FPS where you can't shoot everything that moves.
FF is on where? FF is off in DUST.
I think he means "off" . I really like the posts and I find a lot of valid points in them. +FAV
Oh, the points that you earn by performing hacks, destructions, kills, etc... are WarPoints. Those are currently wrongly displayed as 0 in your character profile page even if they are properly granted. |
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Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
363
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 14:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Wait what? FF is off in DUST? I went by some google searches I did a while ago which claimed a dev said FF is on. I haven't actually tested (since I don't TK), so I'm not questioning anyone.
For clarity, I would very much prefer FF to be on. I haven't played an FPS without friendly fire in years, and have always avoided them like the plague. FF off rewards spray and pray since you don't have to look before you shoot. Truly a shame if FF will be off in the final version, and that will force me to re-consider the entire game - I'm that married to friendly fire being on. |
Mr Funless
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
191
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 14:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
Good post. I disagree with your stance on needing prone. Would encourage even more kmwhore sniping.
I like the rest of your post especially
Arramakaian Eka wrote:Suggestions: [list]
KDR must go. It's not an accurate or even a useful way to gauge contribution to a battle in an objectives-based game. Players will do kills instead of trying to win the game. Even if you don't rank players based on KDR, showing it means people will still concentrate on KDR instead of points. If you insist on showing it, do it along with lots of other data, preferably not after every match.
You should have the option to linger in the end-game stats window for much longer (2-5 mins) to check the stats, see what others did, and most importantly, to be able to chat with the people you just played with/against. Big part of building an FPS community is the camaraderie and smack talk after matches. All this becomes even more important in an MMO setting, and will be integral in making DUST's EVE universe into a world people want to return to. Give it a chance.
Amen. KDR should be a secondary or tertiary stat in a team game. Smack talking after a game would be nice. Typing with a gamepad though is....terrible. (hint: kb/m support)
And yes, FF is OFF right now. |
Needless Sacermendor
98
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 15:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
As Mitchman said friendly fire is currently off but expected to be on at some point before launch. Agree with the bulk of your ideas, good post. The forge gun charge being un-charged by running I like, I just wish it was equated to the swarm launcher which once locked cannot be cancelled. If you're talking about being a secondary gunner on a tank then it depends on the level of turrets being fitted, the proto ones are very good, accurate and powerful enough to be effective, though I'd like to see some user skill coming into effect when gunning from a vehicle, Turret operation should be a requirement to even fire a turret, I'd even like to see the small turret operation skills being required for different turret types and the amount of damage would be related to the users skill as well as the owners skill to fit the better turrets. Next point as discussed in too many threads already tanks shouldn't be easy to kill, in my opinion they already are, my well fitted Surya sits in the dock these days as a single proto forge gun demolishes it in no time and not being able to distinguish its position due to a glitch in the hit detection and direction indicator, but they're aware of this already. I agree KDR should be of less significance, the system works on War Points, that's what you get flashing up when you damage vehicles or structures and when you get a kill or repair damage etc. etc. these points are then somehow converted to an sp gain and an isk payout, how exactly we don't really know, but these War Points should be the primary stat on the end screen and as you said a breakdown, maybe percentage wise, of how players points were earned would be great. The weapon selector is very clunky, I really hope they find a better way to do that. You didn't get the swarm launcher, it IS supposed to lock on when you hold the fire button and point at a target, but I find (mostly in defence) it won't activate on structures, so you're stuck with just vehicle targets for that match, however I've not had a problem with it not working at all. Not sure what you ment by teammates feed while waiting to spawn, but at least being able to press the up button to view the player list / stats would be nice, this doesn't work while dead, hopefully just a bug.
Most of the issues you've raised I think are already in hand, and some good suggestions too +1 |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
363
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 15:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:Not sure what you ment by teammates feed while waiting to spawn, but at least being able to press the up button to view the player list / stats would be nice, this doesn't work while dead, hopefully just a bug.
I meant that one should be able to view the game from teammates' POV while waiting for spawn. This is optional, as it might cause balancing issues, and the spawn timers are quite short. If the timers go beyond 20 secs, giving players something to do while waiting for spawn is critical in keeping interest in the game.
Viewing teammate feeds is one option, in addition to fitting and market access - but not necessarily ability to restock while in-game. I can't say more about that since I haven't tested fitting/market system thoroughly, yet. And as I said elsewhere, key to DUST's success is to have an FPS which works flawlessly, and offers a compelling reason to return to the game.
Thanks also to you and others on help with the Swarm Launcher and Forge Gun in anti-tank roles - I'll test them out further tonight, as anti-tanking is usually my favorite role. |
Alixenus
Omega protection service
36
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 15:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
Quote:I think he means "off" . I really like the posts and I find a lot of valid points in them. +FAV
Okay you've confused me now. Which one means you can wound your own team mates? |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
363
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 15:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
Alixenus wrote:Quote:I think he means "off" . I really like the posts and I find a lot of valid points in them. +FAV Okay you've confused me now. Which one means you can wound your own team mates?
Friendly Fire "on" means you can hurt teammates :)
The main reason I'm dead set on FF on is that it requires players to think. With FF off you can shoot at everything and anything that moves. It's fine for arcade shooters, but any deep FPS has at least the option to play on FF (on) servers. And FF (on) fits EVE Universe perfectly, as you're able to pull off double crosses, back stabbings and other corporate shenanigans. Imagine a decisive battle for a control of a planet between several corps, and all of a sudden one of the DUST merc corps gets mail from an EVE corp offering ONE MILLION DOLLARS for switching sides, and they do, turning on their teammates. That's what EVE is all about. And that requires FF (on).
Griefing (lol I know we're in EVE Universe, but I guess it's possible) can be taken care of with in-game mechanics, ie. if you kill more than X players on your own team or cause Y damage to them you get a warning/kick/ban. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 15:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
I belive they said that High security matches will have Friendly fire off. Possibly faction warfare as well but being debated.
I do know for a fact that FF will be off in null security. |
Dewie Cheecham
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
677
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 15:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
I am certain FF will be on SOONGäó or at release. This is not WoW, but an EVE Online derivative, and there FF is definitely on. |
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GM Unicorn
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
467
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 16:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote: The forge gun charge being un-charged by running I like, I just wish it was equated to the swarm launcher which once locked cannot be cancelled.
If I rember correctly, if you lock a target and then you switch weapon you should be able to not waste your missile. Pretty sure. |
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Dewie Cheecham
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
677
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 16:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
GM Unicorn wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote: The forge gun charge being un-charged by running I like, I just wish it was equated to the swarm launcher which once locked cannot be cancelled.
If I rember correctly, if you lock a target and then you switch weapon you should be able to not waste your missile. Pretty sure.
I'd love to go in and test the theory for you..:P |
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GM Unicorn
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
467
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 16:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
Dewie Cheecham wrote:GM Unicorn wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote: The forge gun charge being un-charged by running I like, I just wish it was equated to the swarm launcher which once locked cannot be cancelled.
If I rember correctly, if you lock a target and then you switch weapon you should be able to not waste your missile. Pretty sure. I'd love to go in and test the theory for you..:P
http://tinyurl.com/dust514notsure |
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Abner Kalen
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
100
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 00:25:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ferocitan wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Some solid stuff here. Only thing I really don't agree with is the prone stance, but otherwise great... and yea, against the best tanks, the Forge IS a potato gun. You need at least two to kill it before it hides and activates reps. Also agree with everything except prone stance.
I agree with everything, but why would people not want a prone/crawling stance??? |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 00:44:00 -
[33] - Quote
Abner Kalen wrote:Ferocitan wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Some solid stuff here. Only thing I really don't agree with is the prone stance, but otherwise great... and yea, against the best tanks, the Forge IS a potato gun. You need at least two to kill it before it hides and activates reps. Also agree with everything except prone stance. I agree with everything, but why would people not want a prone/crawling stance???
Well, first off it would make Scout suit snipers nigh undetectable, even without cloak. Secondly, have you seen how much ammo you have to sink into a Proto Assault suit? Now imagine if that suit was lying flat on the ground. A smaller target is all well and good (crouching) but shrinking it so much when it has so much health is nightmarish. Plus, think of a similar game without prone... lemme use TF2. Imagine the Heavy prone. Imagine him firing a mini-gun while prone. I cannot see a man firing a mini-gun prone unless its a horrid GMod pastiche of limbs and hardware. On this simple note: Heavies, with their huge Mini-guns and Forge Guns, couldn't take advantage of prone. And these guns are hella inaccurate, so a prone Assault at over 5 meters would be nigh invulnerable, while also benefiting from a HUGE accuracy bonus for being prone. There's already enough reasons not to use Heavy as-is (no equip slots, slow, can't effectively track, large hitbox, HP not proportionate to evasion loss, I can go all day here) without adding prone.
I love sniping, but here I don't have to go prone to snipe because crouch kills all the sway. I'm happy with that. |
Abner Kalen
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
100
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 01:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Abner Kalen wrote:Ferocitan wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Some solid stuff here. Only thing I really don't agree with is the prone stance, but otherwise great... and yea, against the best tanks, the Forge IS a potato gun. You need at least two to kill it before it hides and activates reps. Also agree with everything except prone stance. I agree with everything, but why would people not want a prone/crawling stance??? Well, first off it would make Scout suit snipers nigh undetectable, even without cloak. Secondly, have you seen how much ammo you have to sink into a Proto Assault suit? Now imagine if that suit was lying flat on the ground. A smaller target is all well and good (crouching) but shrinking it so much when it has so much health is nightmarish. Plus, think of a similar game without prone... lemme use TF2. Imagine the Heavy prone. Imagine him firing a mini-gun while prone. I cannot see a man firing a mini-gun prone unless its a horrid GMod pastiche of limbs and hardware. On this simple note: Heavies, with their huge Mini-guns and Forge Guns, couldn't take advantage of prone. And these guns are hella inaccurate, so a prone Assault at over 5 meters would be nigh invulnerable, while also benefiting from a HUGE accuracy bonus for being prone. There's already enough reasons not to use Heavy as-is (no equip slots, slow, can't effectively track, large hitbox, HP not proportionate to evasion loss, I can go all day here) without adding prone. I love sniping, but here I don't have to go prone to snipe because crouch kills all the sway. I'm happy with that.
So make the prone/crawling position dependent on the dropsuit, or better yet, the current weapon equipped. We aren't in mechs here, but you have a point about heavies using heavy gear while prone. I think if you have a rifle, you should be able to go prone and crawl, but if you switch to a heavy weapon, it automatically puts you into crouch if you were in prone.
You also make a good point about snipers being undetectable, however this is actually by design. Since scouts sniper rifle is a railgun, then it will shoot in a straight line, and people can see where the sniper is simply by their shot. We also have modern scanners for the enemy frequency, depending on their scanner resolution.
If you know the general direction a sniper is, a great way to flush them out is to call in an airstrike. You really shouldn't be able to kill a sniper with a CreoDron AR from 300 yards. This is why prone forces the sniper to commit to a nest and be temporarily immobile. If they need to move quickly, they shoulder their gun and get the hell out, moving quickly to another location. I really think this would make for a balanced Scout unit.
Oh, also touching on a couple of your other points. Prone position shouldn't necessarily give a boost to all weapons' accuracy. SMG still has the same spray inaccuracy that it does hip-fired or crouched. The only weapons that really should give a bonus for accuracy when prone should be long and ultra-long distance weapons. Weapons that should take a while to get into position that can be deadly, but at the same time they are incredibly vulnerable to other long distance weapons or weapons that do splash damage.
TL;DR: Allow prone while carrying weapons lower than heavy. Only long & ultra-long weapons would actually receive an accuracy bonus and reduced aim-movement. Increase aim-movement and nerf accuracy for crouch and standing in long & ultra-long weapons, to force a true commitment to prone position. |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
915
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 01:30:00 -
[35] - Quote
I approve this message. |
testguy242
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 08:15:00 -
[36] - Quote
Arramakaian Eka wrote:Wait what? FF is off in DUST? I went by some google searches I did a while ago which claimed a dev said FF is on. I haven't actually tested (since I don't TK), so I'm not questioning anyone.
For clarity, I would very much prefer FF to be on. I haven't played an FPS without friendly fire in years, and have always avoided them like the plague. FF off rewards spray and pray since you don't have to look before you shoot. Truly a shame if FF will be off in the final version, and that will force me to re-consider the entire game - I'm that married to friendly fire being on.
It will be on at some point, but it's currently off. It's a beta, you know. There'd be no consequences to people just teamkilling constantly. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
363
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 08:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
testguy242 wrote:Arramakaian Eka wrote:Wait what? FF is off in DUST? I went by some google searches I did a while ago which claimed a dev said FF is on. I haven't actually tested (since I don't TK), so I'm not questioning anyone.
For clarity, I would very much prefer FF to be on. I haven't played an FPS without friendly fire in years, and have always avoided them like the plague. FF off rewards spray and pray since you don't have to look before you shoot. Truly a shame if FF will be off in the final version, and that will force me to re-consider the entire game - I'm that married to friendly fire being on. It will be on at some point, but it's currently off. It's a beta, you know. There'd be no consequences to people just teamkilling constantly.
Fair enough. But FF changes balancing and game mechanics quite a bit, so hopefully CCP will thoroughly test it before launch - especially if there are anti-griefing mechanics involved, as they are really easy to get wrong (too loose making them pointless, or too strict resulting in too many kicks/bans).
I like the idea that null sec and low sec would have FF on, while (some) 0.5 and higher would have it off. Fits perfectly with the world, and would allow for carebears and n00bs play DUST without hurting their sensibilities. |
testguy242
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 09:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
Arramakaian Eka wrote:testguy242 wrote:Arramakaian Eka wrote:Wait what? FF is off in DUST? I went by some google searches I did a while ago which claimed a dev said FF is on. I haven't actually tested (since I don't TK), so I'm not questioning anyone.
For clarity, I would very much prefer FF to be on. I haven't played an FPS without friendly fire in years, and have always avoided them like the plague. FF off rewards spray and pray since you don't have to look before you shoot. Truly a shame if FF will be off in the final version, and that will force me to re-consider the entire game - I'm that married to friendly fire being on. It will be on at some point, but it's currently off. It's a beta, you know. There'd be no consequences to people just teamkilling constantly. Fair enough. But FF changes balancing and game mechanics quite a bit, so hopefully CCP will thoroughly test it before launch - especially if there are anti-griefing mechanics involved, as they are really easy to get wrong (too loose making them pointless, or too strict resulting in too many kicks/bans). I like the idea that null sec and low sec would have FF on, while (some) 0.5 and higher would have it off. Fits perfectly with the world, and would allow for carebears and n00bs play DUST without hurting their sensibilities.
Yup, that makes sense. Corps could police their ranks and boot anyone who has a problem with excessive friendly fire incidents. |
Needless Sacermendor
98
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 15:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
GM Unicorn wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote: The forge gun charge being un-charged by running I like, I just wish it was equated to the swarm launcher which once locked cannot be cancelled.
If I rember correctly, if you lock a target and then you switch weapon you should be able to not waste your missile. Pretty sure. Thanks, I'll check on that next time, with it all being on the right hand it'll be a bit fiddly, while on the subject I hope there are plans to remodel the weapon switch process, it's a bit hit n miss at times and usually affects your aim in the process, I noticed especially in the tanks when trying to activate reps. A simple hold R2 and then flick left and right to cycle selecting the weapon or rep highlighted when R2 is released, you could then add an up and down to select other menu options, maybe knife could go in there if you want it equipable and you could put reps in a separate line and have some other selectable in another line like a quick access to squad commands etc. |
Dante Daedrik
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
97
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 18:28:00 -
[40] - Quote
What if the Squad Leader/Commander, after the Offending Player has committed a designated number of Team Kills, was able to change the Offending Player's status from Friendly to Hostile allowing teammates to fire on the Offending Player. Penalties for Team Killing is not the CCP/EVE Way, but having a level playing field is perfectly reasonable. As the saying goes, "Your equipment can be replaced, your reputation can't." |
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