DUST Search - Feedback from an FPS veteran

Zero Harpuia wrote:

Abner Kalen wrote:

Ferocitan wrote:

Zero Harpuia wrote:

Some solid stuff here. Only thing I really don't agree with is the prone stance, but otherwise great... and yea, against the best tanks, the Forge IS a potato gun. You need at least two to kill it before it hides and activates reps.

Also agree with everything except prone stance.

I agree with everything, but why would people not want a prone/crawling stance???

Well, first off it would make Scout suit snipers nigh undetectable, even without cloak.
Secondly, have you seen how much ammo you have to sink into a Proto Assault suit? Now imagine if that suit was lying flat on the ground. A smaller target is all well and good (crouching) but shrinking it so much when it has so much health is nightmarish.
Plus, think of a similar game without prone... lemme use TF2. Imagine the Heavy prone. Imagine him firing a mini-gun while prone. I cannot see a man firing a mini-gun prone unless its a horrid GMod pastiche of limbs and hardware. On this simple note: Heavies, with their huge Mini-guns and Forge Guns, couldn't take advantage of prone. And these guns are hella inaccurate, so a prone Assault at over 5 meters would be nigh invulnerable, while also benefiting from a HUGE accuracy bonus for being prone. There's already enough reasons not to use Heavy as-is (no equip slots, slow, can't effectively track, large hitbox, HP not proportionate to evasion loss, I can go all day here) without adding prone.

I love sniping, but here I don't have to go prone to snipe because crouch kills all the sway. I'm happy with that.

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GM Unicorn 24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire 467	Posted - 2012.08.06 16:48:00 - [31] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: GM Unicorn wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: The forge gun charge being un-charged by running I like, I just wish it was equated to the swarm launcher which once locked cannot be cancelled. If I rember correctly, if you lock a target and then you switch weapon you should be able to not waste your missile. Pretty sure. I'd love to go in and test the theory for you..:P http://tinyurl.com/dust514notsure

Abner Kalen Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 100	Posted - 2012.08.07 00:25:00 - [32] - Quote Ferocitan wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Some solid stuff here. Only thing I really don't agree with is the prone stance, but otherwise great... and yea, against the best tanks, the Forge IS a potato gun. You need at least two to kill it before it hides and activates reps. Also agree with everything except prone stance. I agree with everything, but why would people not want a prone/crawling stance???
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.08.07 00:44:00 - [33] - Quote Abner Kalen wrote: Ferocitan wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Some solid stuff here. Only thing I really don't agree with is the prone stance, but otherwise great... and yea, against the best tanks, the Forge IS a potato gun. You need at least two to kill it before it hides and activates reps. Also agree with everything except prone stance. I agree with everything, but why would people not want a prone/crawling stance??? Well, first off it would make Scout suit snipers nigh undetectable, even without cloak. Secondly, have you seen how much ammo you have to sink into a Proto Assault suit? Now imagine if that suit was lying flat on the ground. A smaller target is all well and good (crouching) but shrinking it so much when it has so much health is nightmarish. Plus, think of a similar game without prone... lemme use TF2. Imagine the Heavy prone. Imagine him firing a mini-gun while prone. I cannot see a man firing a mini-gun prone unless its a horrid GMod pastiche of limbs and hardware. On this simple note: Heavies, with their huge Mini-guns and Forge Guns, couldn't take advantage of prone. And these guns are hella inaccurate, so a prone Assault at over 5 meters would be nigh invulnerable, while also benefiting from a HUGE accuracy bonus for being prone. There's already enough reasons not to use Heavy as-is (no equip slots, slow, can't effectively track, large hitbox, HP not proportionate to evasion loss, I can go all day here) without adding prone. I love sniping, but here I don't have to go prone to snipe because crouch kills all the sway. I'm happy with that.
Abner Kalen Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 100	Posted - 2012.08.07 01:15:00 - [34] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Abner Kalen wrote: Ferocitan wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Some solid stuff here. Only thing I really don't agree with is the prone stance, but otherwise great... and yea, against the best tanks, the Forge IS a potato gun. You need at least two to kill it before it hides and activates reps. Also agree with everything except prone stance. I agree with everything, but why would people not want a prone/crawling stance??? Well, first off it would make Scout suit snipers nigh undetectable, even without cloak. Secondly, have you seen how much ammo you have to sink into a Proto Assault suit? Now imagine if that suit was lying flat on the ground. A smaller target is all well and good (crouching) but shrinking it so much when it has so much health is nightmarish. Plus, think of a similar game without prone... lemme use TF2. Imagine the Heavy prone. Imagine him firing a mini-gun while prone. I cannot see a man firing a mini-gun prone unless its a horrid GMod pastiche of limbs and hardware. On this simple note: Heavies, with their huge Mini-guns and Forge Guns, couldn't take advantage of prone. And these guns are hella inaccurate, so a prone Assault at over 5 meters would be nigh invulnerable, while also benefiting from a HUGE accuracy bonus for being prone. There's already enough reasons not to use Heavy as-is (no equip slots, slow, can't effectively track, large hitbox, HP not proportionate to evasion loss, I can go all day here) without adding prone. I love sniping, but here I don't have to go prone to snipe because crouch kills all the sway. I'm happy with that. So make the prone/crawling position dependent on the dropsuit, or better yet, the current weapon equipped. We aren't in mechs here, but you have a point about heavies using heavy gear while prone. I think if you have a rifle, you should be able to go prone and crawl, but if you switch to a heavy weapon, it automatically puts you into crouch if you were in prone. You also make a good point about snipers being undetectable, however this is actually by design. Since scouts sniper rifle is a railgun, then it will shoot in a straight line, and people can see where the sniper is simply by their shot. We also have modern scanners for the enemy frequency, depending on their scanner resolution. If you know the general direction a sniper is, a great way to flush them out is to call in an airstrike. You really shouldn't be able to kill a sniper with a CreoDron AR from 300 yards. This is why prone forces the sniper to commit to a nest and be temporarily immobile. If they need to move quickly, they shoulder their gun and get the hell out, moving quickly to another location. I really think this would make for a balanced Scout unit. Oh, also touching on a couple of your other points. Prone position shouldn't necessarily give a boost to all weapons' accuracy. SMG still has the same spray inaccuracy that it does hip-fired or crouched. The only weapons that really should give a bonus for accuracy when prone should be long and ultra-long distance weapons. Weapons that should take a while to get into position that can be deadly, but at the same time they are incredibly vulnerable to other long distance weapons or weapons that do splash damage. TL;DR: Allow prone while carrying weapons lower than heavy. Only long & ultra-long weapons would actually receive an accuracy bonus and reduced aim-movement. Increase aim-movement and nerf accuracy for crouch and standing in long & ultra-long weapons, to force a true commitment to prone position.
Forlorn Destrier ZionTCD Legacy Rising 915	Posted - 2012.08.07 01:30:00 - [35] - Quote I approve this message.
testguy242 44	Posted - 2012.08.07 08:15:00 - [36] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: Wait what? FF is off in DUST? I went by some google searches I did a while ago which claimed a dev said FF is on. I haven't actually tested (since I don't TK), so I'm not questioning anyone. For clarity, I would very much prefer FF to be on. I haven't played an FPS without friendly fire in years, and have always avoided them like the plague. FF off rewards spray and pray since you don't have to look before you shoot. Truly a shame if FF will be off in the final version, and that will force me to re-consider the entire game - I'm that married to friendly fire being on. It will be on at some point, but it's currently off. It's a beta, you know. There'd be no consequences to people just teamkilling constantly.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2012.08.07 08:50:00 - [37] - Quote testguy242 wrote: Arramakaian Eka wrote: Wait what? FF is off in DUST? I went by some google searches I did a while ago which claimed a dev said FF is on. I haven't actually tested (since I don't TK), so I'm not questioning anyone. For clarity, I would very much prefer FF to be on. I haven't played an FPS without friendly fire in years, and have always avoided them like the plague. FF off rewards spray and pray since you don't have to look before you shoot. Truly a shame if FF will be off in the final version, and that will force me to re-consider the entire game - I'm that married to friendly fire being on. It will be on at some point, but it's currently off. It's a beta, you know. There'd be no consequences to people just teamkilling constantly. Fair enough. But FF changes balancing and game mechanics quite a bit, so hopefully CCP will thoroughly test it before launch - especially if there are anti-griefing mechanics involved, as they are really easy to get wrong (too loose making them pointless, or too strict resulting in too many kicks/bans). I like the idea that null sec and low sec would have FF on, while (some) 0.5 and higher would have it off. Fits perfectly with the world, and would allow for carebears and n00bs play DUST without hurting their sensibilities.
testguy242 44	Posted - 2012.08.07 09:01:00 - [38] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: testguy242 wrote: Arramakaian Eka wrote: Wait what? FF is off in DUST? I went by some google searches I did a while ago which claimed a dev said FF is on. I haven't actually tested (since I don't TK), so I'm not questioning anyone. For clarity, I would very much prefer FF to be on. I haven't played an FPS without friendly fire in years, and have always avoided them like the plague. FF off rewards spray and pray since you don't have to look before you shoot. Truly a shame if FF will be off in the final version, and that will force me to re-consider the entire game - I'm that married to friendly fire being on. It will be on at some point, but it's currently off. It's a beta, you know. There'd be no consequences to people just teamkilling constantly. Fair enough. But FF changes balancing and game mechanics quite a bit, so hopefully CCP will thoroughly test it before launch - especially if there are anti-griefing mechanics involved, as they are really easy to get wrong (too loose making them pointless, or too strict resulting in too many kicks/bans). I like the idea that null sec and low sec would have FF on, while (some) 0.5 and higher would have it off. Fits perfectly with the world, and would allow for carebears and n00bs play DUST without hurting their sensibilities. Yup, that makes sense. Corps could police their ranks and boot anyone who has a problem with excessive friendly fire incidents.
Needless Sacermendor 98	Posted - 2012.08.07 15:05:00 - [39] - Quote GM Unicorn wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: The forge gun charge being un-charged by running I like, I just wish it was equated to the swarm launcher which once locked cannot be cancelled. If I rember correctly, if you lock a target and then you switch weapon you should be able to not waste your missile. Pretty sure. Thanks, I'll check on that next time, with it all being on the right hand it'll be a bit fiddly, while on the subject I hope there are plans to remodel the weapon switch process, it's a bit hit n miss at times and usually affects your aim in the process, I noticed especially in the tanks when trying to activate reps. A simple hold R2 and then flick left and right to cycle selecting the weapon or rep highlighted when R2 is released, you could then add an up and down to select other menu options, maybe knife could go in there if you want it equipable and you could put reps in a separate line and have some other selectable in another line like a quick access to squad commands etc.
Dante Daedrik Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 97	Posted - 2012.08.07 18:28:00 - [40] - Quote What if the Squad Leader/Commander, after the Offending Player has committed a designated number of Team Kills, was able to change the Offending Player's status from Friendly to Hostile allowing teammates to fire on the Offending Player. Penalties for Team Killing is not the CCP/EVE Way, but having a level playing field is perfectly reasonable. As the saying goes, "Your equipment can be replaced, your reputation can't."



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