Okay before I go to bed..
Dont bash on the scout suit. Its fine.

No more nerfing.. half of the things that are/will be nerfed didn't need it to be so extreme. When the beta advances and we get to see more of the game and things like hit detection get fixed we can worry about that. Right now we just need the beta to advance a bit more.

Okay before I go to bed..
Dont bash on the scout suit. Its fine.

No more nerfing.. half of the things that are/will be nerfed didn't need it to be so extreme. When the beta advances and we get to see more of the game and things like hit detection get fixed we can worry about that. Right now we just need the beta to advance a bit more.

And OP, I'll accept an SMG nerf after they nerf shotguns and ARs.

Hit detection is poor for everyone. Learn to lead your target, and it helps to turn up your sensitivity and train yourself to handle it at max settings. 11% speed increase on scouts is not substantial. It helps to lead your target and get use to the time differential between you and the server. This will get fixed eventually.

Scout dropsuit is working correctly. I'm sorry you are having more difficulty hitting us than every other class, but excuse me if that sounds to me like the class is working as intended. Is it really so bad if something is giving you difficulties? As for the bunny hopping, that is one of the worst things you can do as a scout. Bunny hopping makes you extremely predictable and ease to lead. I can tell that you are not able to lead your target which is causing your inability to kill bunny hoppers and compensate for hit detection.

my best advice is to turn up your sensitivity, and shoot ahead of your target.


Also...




ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! shotguns are nowhere close to overpowered. This forum never ceases to amaze me with the amount of people who have No Idea what they are talking about.

By no means do i mean mobility ops the scout, its the secondary weapon and bunny hopping. The fact that they don't bunny hop in cod( as far as i know) makes it look even worse

Hit detection is poor for everyone. Learn to lead your target, and it helps to turn up your sensitivity and train yourself to handle it at max settings. 11% speed increase on scouts is not substantial. It helps to lead your target and get use to the time differential between you and the server. This will get fixed eventually.

Scout dropsuit is working correctly. I'm sorry you are having more difficulty hitting us than every other class, but excuse me if that sounds to me like the class is working as intended. Is it really so bad if something is giving you difficulties? As for the bunny hopping, that is one of the worst things you can do as a scout. Bunny hopping makes you extremely predictable and ease to lead. I can tell that you are not able to lead your target which is causing your inability to kill bunny hoppers and compensate for hit detection.

my best advice is to turn up your sensitivity, and shoot ahead of your target.


Also...




ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! shotguns are nowhere close to overpowered. This forum never ceases to amaze me with the amount of people who have No Idea what they are talking about.

I don't mean a complete hmg/swarm launcher nerf, more like make it so if it goes against a pistol of equal rank it should have a 50/50 chance of winning

I don't mean a complete hmg/swarm launcher nerf, more like make it so if it goes against a pistol of equal rank it should have a 50/50 chance of winning

Calm down, I didn't say they were overpowered.

I one shot people with the Allotek at point blank. Two if the target is 10-15m away...you know...the SMGs primary range. Thankfully the clip olly holds two shots before a reload or it would be OP. But regardless, you missed the point. If you nerf SMGs while leaving shotguns and ARs untouched then there will be no reason to use an SMG except to spam once your main weapon runs out of ammo.

Proto pistols do amazing damage. There's only a handful of people who spent enough SP for them, so they're not very common.

I don't mean a complete hmg/swarm launcher nerf, more like make it so if it goes against a pistol of equal rank it should have a 50/50 chance of winning

i admit scouts are hard to hit at close range, but that's their form of a tank, exactly like the minmatar often are and all frigates, speed tank, move fast enough that they can't hit you. If scouts get caught up and slowed down, or aren't currently moving erratically they are extremely squishy.

Smgs are secondary weapons which should mean it should be overall inferior to primary weapons.

Seriously, lead your target, it negates the effectiveness of bunny hopping entirely. And your saying the Scout class is super OP just cause it has a secondary weapon? The secondary weapon is there for the sniper builds. Take it away and snipers become useless at anything closer than 50 meters, that's a Huge disadvantage and would destroy sniping in this game.

Their tank should be the stealth of a smaller target and being faster than every one else not being able to jump like no tomorrow.

I've unloaded entire clips into Scouts, watched their shields flash and they took no damage. I suspect the crappy hit detection is to blame. It's hard to say it's fine right now. After hit detection is fixed we'll be ale to tell.


And OP, I'll accept an SMG nerf after they nerf shotguns and ARs.

Says who? I can only shoot one weapon at a time, it shouldn't matter if my weapon is classified as primary or secondary.
As for pistols, their ROF is fine, their magazine is low (which is why I don't like using them much), but the amount of damage per shot is nice, you just need to place your shots carefully. There's very little room for error with a pistol.

The only time you have to worry about a jumping scout is when h has RE in his hands. Since that's about to get nerfed...

Really, Every weapon would be nerfed then. Also whats wrong with shotguns, they are shotguns, they are suppose to be really strong in close combat. Plus i haven't had problems fighting shotgun guys.

That and when the circle strafe my heavy with an smg

Nothing is wrong with SGs. All I'm saying is if you touch SMGs, but let SGs remain untouched, then all people wil luse for CQC will be SGs.

What do you think the counter to Heavies should be?

hit detection on the scout suit has been broken since the private trials.

That raises the question should mass drivers be buffed for the beta only or should they fix hit detection sooner?

I honestly have no problem with the Mass Driver on my Logi sets. It takes awhile to get the angle right.

Nothing is wrong with SGs. All I'm saying is if you touch SMGs, but let SGs remain untouched, then all people wil luse for CQC will be SGs.

I've never used a shotgun, so i might be wrong, but aren't shotguns a primary while the SMGs are secondary. If shotguns are primary, most people are going to use all the other guns than the shotgun. So nerfing the shotgun just because of nerfing the SMG doesn't make since.

Bunnyhopping is fine, balances the low HP of scout suits.
SMG doesn't need a nerf, its fine. The short range balances it.
The HMG needs a serious buff.

The pistol is less effective so why shouldn't the smg also be less effective?

I can understand one problem associated with using a "secondary" weapon over a primary; they use less CPU/PG. So it becomes an issue of "Why should I use up 90 CPU with this AR if I can get similar or better results for little over half the fitting cost by using two secondary weapons? The easiest way to "balance" SMGs would be to increase their fitting requirements to match that of "primary" weapons.

It's less effective for you maybe. You actually have to aim with a pistol, not just spray and pray like you do with an SMG. You get higher damage per shot and longer effective range with a pistol. I do think the magazine size is very low though; going from 7 shots to 10-12 would be a lot better.

Scout HP is terrible, it can die from a few clean shots from the AR. I've been able to snipe them clean as they were doing a full perpendicular sprint. Assault Rifle hitbox detection is goofy overpowered compared to snipers, HMGs and pretty much everything except SMGs

Why bunny hop ehen you can out run a heavies turn speed and have a smaller hitbox?
The smg should be on par with other sidearms and an smg nerf seems more favorable than a pistol buff
True but something in between what it was and what it is now, favoring the original

If they nerf SMGs to the point of them not being worth it to use as a primary weapon, I'm just going to use a SG. Frankly, the SG is already better suited to how I fight when I feel like being selfish, but the sound is so damn annoying (second only to the Mass driver reloading volume). I prefer no nerfs at all but I really would hate to see a nerf to the SMG.

Plus I'm not really comfortable with the idea of "oh it's a secondary weapon so it should automatically be less useful than a primary."

According to?

Look, some of us want to use other guns, not just ARs. If you want to increase the fitting requirements for the top tier SMGs to bring them in line with other weapons, I'm fine with that. I'm curious, what aspect of SMGs would you nerf?

Since it is the smallest dropsuit available why does it have two weapons and logistic suit only has one. I think it should be the other way around?

I'm surprised nobody's commented on this yet?


Compare the Logi suit's equipment and other fitting slots. Now tell me it doesn't have some advantages of its own. They're buffing it in a couple of ways in the next build, too.

Also, the problem with indestructible Scouts is mostly with people not leading their shots, but there are hit detection issues as well.

What suit are you using?

Been using Scout for about 4 months. I prefer a shotgun/scout loadout but due to the map + AR hit detection buff change I've had to switch to sniper/scout. Which is awful for multiple reasons ranging from fitting reqs to the multiple clean shots it requires to make a kill.

Mk II, the one that forgoes a sidearm (man 1.12M SP to get the next one, yeesh)

Yeah, I'm carrying the prototype sniper rifle + 2 sprint mods + basic shield extender, locus grenades and remote explosives. This leaves an equipment slot unused but there's literally 0PG to spare with level 5 engineering skills.

ask me about disabling the defender's C-turret and flipping the northwest clone facility within 50 seconds of the match starting

According to?

Look, some of us want to use other guns, not just ARs. If you want to increase the fitting requirements for the top tier SMGs to bring them in line with other weapons, I'm fine with that. I'm curious, what aspect of SMGs would you nerf?

Damage like with my hmg but slightly lower due to the fact that there is no overheat.

Would you really want a standard pistol with more ammo(per clip and total) a damage increase and to top it off a sight

They already do less damage than ARs. The Boundless Breach is the only one above 40 damage but it has a lower rate of fire to compensate.

These only 3 proto SMGs worth using besides the Toxin IMO:

The Freedom Burst is a good sidearm if all you want to fight is at mid to long range. The Burst SMG is a lot like the Allotek AR (My favorite AR) in that it fires a burst of rounds (in this case 8) in a relatively tight pattern every time you hit R1. It's very effective up until around ~30 ft but it isn't very good for close quarters because of the burst nature and the low damage. I don't use it. ARs and HMGs will still chew you up.

The Ishukone Assault is my second favorite. It is really good in close quarters but is decent at low to mid range as well. The only problem is that it eats ammo like a fat kid at a buffet. Really good for kiting SGs though as long as you keep moving.

The Boundless is my absolute favorite, and the one I think most people would pick to be nerfed. It has a low rate of fire but really good damage. It's amazing in close quarters but is worthless beyond ~10ft.

Straight up, a good AR will own an SMG at range and even close quarters if you don't strafe and a good SG will one or two shot you if you don't keep moving. If you nerf the damage you're going to throw things out of whack. A heavy with an HMG should lose to a good SMG in close quarters, you have to have some weaknesses. And btw, I don't use scout suits. Don't nerf SMGs just because a scout owns your heavy, that's liable to screw me over as a result.

Do you mean would I want a pistol as a sidearm when I can just use an SMG instead?

Depends on what map I'm playing. The pistol actually has a better effective range and higher damage than an SMG. If I'm fighting someone further away than my SMG is effective, all I'm doing is tickling his shields. That's if the hits even register. With a pistol, the higher damage and effective range means whoever I'm unloading on will actually die. The catch is you actually have to aim, not just spray and pray. If I'm fighting indoors then no, I want my SMG. It's built specifically for that purpose.

The SMG is a secondary not a primary. They aren't in the same weapon slot. So you can't switch out the SMG for the Shotgun because they go in 2 different weapon slots. The only secondary weapons you can pick from right now is the SMG or the Pistol. So you either carry a SMG with you or a pistol with you along with you primary weapon.

In my experience, the sights on the SMG are just a formality. Even if your hits somehow registered on someone at long range, the damage would be almost non-existent since you're so far out of your optimal. Besides, the dispersal pattern pretty much guarantees you won't land enough shots to be a concern.

Funny I have no problem butchering 95% of the scout suits I come across. Come to think of it only about 4 guys I have come up against with scout suits are hard to hit and can actualy get headshots on me at the same time.

Sorry OP but maybe you need to try for more head shots and work on your aim or your havign some major lag problems.
I know if im on the Asia servers I cant get a single kill with my SMG but on the US its semi ok and on the EU well every bullet hits for sure.

What about making it a primary so people can't double up with it. A bit like a shot gun alternative

For this build it wouldn't affect me very much, but I'm sure it would **** off a lot of people who use SMGs as a secondary. So I wouldn't feel comfortable speaking for everyone.

The issue, I think, isn't the ability to double up, it's that a Heavy isn't well suited for close up fighting. There has to be a weakness for having so much defense and the ability to wield one of the best AV weapons (Forge) and, although nerfed at the moment, one of the better anti-infantry weapons (HMG).

Then your saying your find it hard shooting at somthing that jumps about ? Sure its not easy but dont forget the poor little scout will die in an instant if he stops moving. Also he has to try and aim at you while hoping about it goes both ways.

Edit: Sorry just woke up. Yea logi is a little gimped at only 1 and the scout gets away with 2 so I kinda see your point here.

Hmg has near no zoom so it should be the close range confrontation ender and the heavy is already slow and a big target

Then your saying your find it hard shooting at somthing that jumps about ? Sure its not easy but dont forget the poor little scout will die in an instant if he stops moving. Also he has to try and aim at you while hoping about it goes both ways.

Edit: Sorry just woke up. Yea logi is a little gimped at only 1 and the scout gets away with 2 so I kinda see your point here.

It doesn't need zoom, you're not a sniper. Your job is to spill as much lead in an area as possible. It's just hard to do that now because of the HMG mechanics. For a start, they need to remove overheating. I mean it looks cool so they should keep the glow, just remove the forced cooldown.

Last time i check the ar isn't a sniper either but it has a scope

Why bunny hop ehen you can out run a heavies turn speed and have a smaller hitbox?
The smg should be on par with other sidearms and an smg nerf seems more favorable than a pistol buff
True but something in between what it was and what it is now, favoring the original

Because mobility isn't just meant for running away.
A pistol buff sounds good to me actually, maybe bigger magazine sizes. The more weapons like the SMG are overall useful like the assault rifles, the less assault rifles we will see, and the more variety of weapons used we will see also.

Because mobility isn't just meant for running away.
A pistol buff sounds good to me actually, maybe bigger magazine sizes. The more weapons like the SMG are overall useful like the assault rifles, the less assault rifles we will see, and the more variety of weapons used we will see also.

Because mobility isn't just meant for running away.
A pistol buff sounds good to me actually, maybe bigger magazine sizes. The more weapons like the SMG are overall useful like the assault rifles, the less assault rifles we will see, and the more variety of weapons used we will see also.

lol no no they are OP as it is. My ones got 9 rounds in the clip thats <----------------------------------> this much pwnage

Fixed (added one more "-" so the number of characters in "<---------------------------------->" is a multiple of 9)

Ah thank you man how remiss of me


Edit now it haz 10 mahahaha

So with 2 of em that I carry thats getting on for 1800 dmg in about 4-5 seconds if they all hit lolz they nevar all hit.

Says who? I can only shoot one weapon at a time, it shouldn't matter if my weapon is classified as primary or secondary.
As for pistols, their ROF is fine, their magazine is low (which is why I don't like using them much), but the amount of damage per shot is nice, you just need to place your shots carefully. There's very little room for error with a pistol.

The scout suit and SMGs are fine. If your heavy got slaughtered by me, it's because I have put 20mil SP exclusively into being a SMG/Swarm scout. It only seems OP because I'm loading up sidearm damage mods and have almost maxed sidearm range.

There are still very effective counters to this setup. For instance, I have absolutely no anti-sniper protection. Even with the boosted range, a Sniper or AR on top of the pipes can completely lock me out of an area. I simply can't get close enough to do any real damage without leaving myself wide open. Combined with the fact that I'm still paper thin in full Proto gear, means I simply have to avoid B when the enemy is controlling the pipes above.

Rock, paper, scissors. Don't let scouts get close, flush them out of cover with 'nades, and focus fire. All the jumping around and SMG firestorms in the world can't save me from a 3v1 situation. (Assuming the 3 are remotely competent.)

Also, stop demanding Logi buffs. It only has one weapon slot because it's not supposed to be frontline infantry. What are you guys doing with all those equipment slots? I'm not seeing a lot of nanohives and drop uplinks on the field this weekend, but I am getting rushed by a lot of hapless Logi guys.

Didn't read all the posts just wanted to comment on the OP bunny hop comment.

Don't really see much bunny hopping going on due to the stamina. The only time I do it in game is when I'm facing the wrong way being shot in the back, jumping then turning is faster, and the only other time is when I'm reloading which seems to be the norm for most.

Speaking as a guy that has been assassinated but bunny hopping scouts with shotguns on many occasions I have to say I Love the scout suit! To me always having to watch your back and check your corners for those sneaky bastards adds a level of depth and excitement to the game play. Besides its not like they are impossible to kill, and when you finally kill the slippery bouncing SoB it feels great!

As for hit detection i think that needs tweaks across the board, not just with the scout suits... imo

The best way to nerf the smg is clip size and ammunition capacity possibly?

Is it so god damn hard for AR-Assault scrubs to understand that Assault rifle is a MEDIUM AND LONG RANGE WEAPON. SMG is a CLOSE RANGE ONLY weapon. So if you get your brains splattered to the nearest wall by SMG user because you where stupid enough to think hugging him is a good strategy you deserved it.

SMG is fine.



Sure, if you double the damage in CQC

I've unloaded entire clips into Scouts, watched their shields flash and they took no damage. I suspect the crappy hit detection is to blame. It's hard to say it's fine right now. After hit detection is fixed we'll be ale to tell.

Im just going to give you an answer I recieved for giving a similar statement in the past.

"Your aim is crap"

Didn't read all the posts just wanted to comment on the OP bunny hop comment.

Don't really see much bunny hopping going on due to the stamina. The only time I do it in game is when I'm facing the wrong way being shot in the back, jumping then turning is faster, and the only other time is when I'm reloading which seems to be the norm for most.

lol, yeah, got to love those responses.

Bunny hopping while reloading is a waste of stamina unless you are dodging bullets. I do it all the time because that's how my thumbs have been trained to play fps. I am trying to break the habit though.