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Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 07:20:00 - [1] - Quote Garma QUDA wrote: Okay before I go to bed.. Dont bash on the scout suit. Its fine. I've unloaded entire clips into Scouts, watched their shields flash and they took no damage. I suspect the crappy hit detection is to blame. It's hard to say it's fine right now. After hit detection is fixed we'll be ale to tell. And OP, I'll accept an SMG nerf after they nerf shotguns and ARs. Edit: I'm not saying the SG or AR need a nerf!
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 07:36:00 - [2] - Quote Nos Faust wrote: No more nerfing.. half of the things that are/will be nerfed didn't need it to be so extreme. When the beta advances and we get to see more of the game and things like hit detection get fixed we can worry about that. Right now we just need the beta to advance a bit more. I probably shouldn't be getting the kills I am with the Boundless SMG, but then again, I probably shouldn't be getting all those kills with the creo AR or Allotek shotgun. There's one thing common about all of them, they're the "Breach" variants.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 07:58:00 - [3] - Quote SoCal Ninja wrote: Hit detection is poor for everyone. Learn to lead your target, and it helps to turn up your sensitivity and train yourself to handle it at max settings. 11% speed increase on scouts is not substantial. It helps to lead your target and get use to the time differential between you and the server. This will get fixed eventually. Scout dropsuit is working correctly. I'm sorry you are having more difficulty hitting us than every other class, but excuse me if that sounds to me like the class is working as intended. Is it really so bad if something is giving you difficulties? As for the bunny hopping, that is one of the worst things you can do as a scout. Bunny hopping makes you extremely predictable and ease to lead. I can tell that you are not able to lead your target which is causing your inability to kill bunny hoppers and compensate for hit detection. my best advice is to turn up your sensitivity, and shoot ahead of your target. Also... Abron Garr wrote: And OP, I'll accept an SMG nerf after they nerf shotguns and ARs. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! shotguns are nowhere close to overpowered. This forum never ceases to amaze me with the amount of people who have No Idea what they are talking about. Calm down, I didn't say they were overpowered. I one shot people with the Allotek at point blank. Two if the target is 10-15ft away...you know...the SMGs primary range. Thankfully the clip only holds two shots before reload or it would be overpowered. But regardless, you missed the point. If you nerf SMGs while leaving shotguns and ARs untouched then there will be no reason to use an SMG except to spam once your main weapon runs out of ammo.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 08:01:00 - [4] - Quote vermacht Doe wrote: Nos Faust wrote: No more nerfing.. half of the things that are/will be nerfed didn't need it to be so extreme. When the beta advances and we get to see more of the game and things like hit detection get fixed we can worry about that. Right now we just need the beta to advance a bit more. I don't mean a complete hmg/swarm launcher nerf, more like make it so if it goes against a pistol of equal rank it should have a 50/50 chance of winning Proto pistols do amazing damage. There's only a handful of people who spent enough SP for them, so they're not very common.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 08:11:00 - [5] - Quote vermacht Doe wrote: Abron Garr wrote: SoCal Ninja wrote: Hit detection is poor for everyone. Learn to lead your target, and it helps to turn up your sensitivity and train yourself to handle it at max settings. 11% speed increase on scouts is not substantial. It helps to lead your target and get use to the time differential between you and the server. This will get fixed eventually. Scout dropsuit is working correctly. I'm sorry you are having more difficulty hitting us than every other class, but excuse me if that sounds to me like the class is working as intended. Is it really so bad if something is giving you difficulties? As for the bunny hopping, that is one of the worst things you can do as a scout. Bunny hopping makes you extremely predictable and ease to lead. I can tell that you are not able to lead your target which is causing your inability to kill bunny hoppers and compensate for hit detection. my best advice is to turn up your sensitivity, and shoot ahead of your target. Also... Abron Garr wrote: And OP, I'll accept an SMG nerf after they nerf shotguns and ARs. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! shotguns are nowhere close to overpowered. This forum never ceases to amaze me with the amount of people who have No Idea what they are talking about. Calm down, I didn't say they were overpowered. I one shot people with the Allotek at point blank. Two if the target is 10-15m away...you know...the SMGs primary range. Thankfully the clip olly holds two shots before a reload or it would be OP. But regardless, you missed the point. If you nerf SMGs while leaving shotguns and ARs untouched then there will be no reason to use an SMG except to spam once your main weapon runs out of ammo. Smgs are secondary weapons which should mean it should be overall inferior to primary weapons. Says who? I can only shoot one weapon at a time, it shouldn't matter if my weapon is classified as primary or secondary. As for pistols, their ROF is fine, their magazine is low (which is why I don't like using them much), but the amount of damage per shot is nice, you just need to place your shots carefully. There's very little room for error with a pistol.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 08:12:00 - [6] - Quote vermacht Doe wrote: Relyt R wrote: i admit scouts are hard to hit at close range, but that's their form of a tank, exactly like the minmatar often are and all frigates, speed tank, move fast enough that they can't hit you. If scouts get caught up and slowed down, or aren't currently moving erratically they are extremely squishy. Their tank should be the stealth of a smaller target and being faster than every one else not being able to jump like no tomorrow. The only time you have to worry about a jumping scout is when h has RE in his hands. Since that's about to get nerfed...
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 08:25:00 - [7] - Quote Derek Barnes wrote: Abron Garr wrote: Garma QUDA wrote: Okay before I go to bed.. Dont bash on the scout suit. Its fine. I've unloaded entire clips into Scouts, watched their shields flash and they took no damage. I suspect the crappy hit detection is to blame. It's hard to say it's fine right now. After hit detection is fixed we'll be ale to tell. And OP, I'll accept an SMG nerf after they nerf shotguns and ARs. Really, Every weapon would be nerfed then. Also whats wrong with shotguns, they are shotguns, they are suppose to be really strong in close combat. Plus i haven't had problems fighting shotgun guys. Nothing is wrong with SGs. All I'm saying is if you touch SMGs, but let SGs remain untouched, then all people wil luse for CQC will be SGs.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 08:26:00 - [8] - Quote vermacht Doe wrote: Abron Garr wrote: vermacht Doe wrote: Relyt R wrote: i admit scouts are hard to hit at close range, but that's their form of a tank, exactly like the minmatar often are and all frigates, speed tank, move fast enough that they can't hit you. If scouts get caught up and slowed down, or aren't currently moving erratically they are extremely squishy. Their tank should be the stealth of a smaller target and being faster than every one else not being able to jump like no tomorrow. The only time you have to worry about a jumping scout is when h has RE in his hands. Since that's about to get nerfed... That and when the circle strafe my heavy with an smg What do you think the counter to Heavies should be?
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 08:42:00 - [9] - Quote vermacht Doe wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: hit detection on the scout suit has been broken since the private trials. That raises the question should mass drivers be buffed for the beta only or should they fix hit detection sooner? I honestly have no problem with the Mass Driver on my Logi sets. It takes awhile to get the angle right.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 08:58:00 - [10] - Quote Derek Barnes wrote: Abron Garr wrote: Derek Barnes wrote: Abron Garr wrote: Garma QUDA wrote: Okay before I go to bed.. Dont bash on the scout suit. Its fine. I've unloaded entire clips into Scouts, watched their shields flash and they took no damage. I suspect the crappy hit detection is to blame. It's hard to say it's fine right now. After hit detection is fixed we'll be ale to tell. And OP, I'll accept an SMG nerf after they nerf shotguns and ARs. Really, Every weapon would be nerfed then. Also whats wrong with shotguns, they are shotguns, they are suppose to be really strong in close combat. Plus i haven't had problems fighting shotgun guys. Nothing is wrong with SGs. All I'm saying is if you touch SMGs, but let SGs remain untouched, then all people wil luse for CQC will be SGs. I've never used a shotgun, so i might be wrong, but aren't shotguns a primary while the SMGs are secondary. If shotguns are primary, most people are going to use all the other guns than the shotgun. So nerfing the shotgun just because of nerfing the SMG doesn't make since. If they nerf SMGs to the point of them not being worth it to use as a primary weapon, I'm just going to use a SG. Frankly, the SG is already better suited to how I fight when I feel like being selfish, but the sound is so damn annoying (second only to the Mass driver reloading volume). I prefer no nerfs at all but I really would hate to see a nerf to the SMG. Plus I'm not really comfortable with the idea of "oh it's a secondary weapon so it should automatically be less useful than a primary."

Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 09:09:00 - [11] - Quote I can understand one problem associated with using a "secondary" weapon over a primary; they use less CPU/PG. So it becomes an issue of "Why should I use up 90 CPU with this AR if I can get similar or better results for little over half the fitting cost by using two secondary weapons? The easiest way to "balance" SMGs would be to increase their fitting requirements to match that of "primary" weapons.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 09:12:00 - [12] - Quote vermacht Doe wrote: The pistol is less effective so why shouldn't the smg also be less effective? It's less effective for you maybe. You actually have to aim with a pistol, not just spray and pray like you do with an SMG. You get higher damage per shot and longer effective range with a pistol. I do think the magazine size is very low though; going from 7 shots to 10-12 would be a lot better.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 09:19:00 - [13] - Quote vermacht Doe wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Bunnyhopping is fine, balances the low HP of scout suits. SMG doesn't need a nerf, its fine. The short range balances it. The HMG needs a serious buff. Why bunny hop ehen you can out run a heavies turn speed and have a smaller hitbox? The smg should be on par with other sidearms and an smg nerf seems more favorable than a pistol buff True but something in between what it was and what it is now, favoring the original According to? Look, some of us want to use other guns, not just ARs. If you want to increase the fitting requirements for the top tier SMGs to bring them in line with other weapons, I'm fine with that. I'm curious, what aspect of SMGs would you nerf?
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 10:11:00 - [14] - Quote vermacht Doe wrote: Abron Garr wrote: vermacht Doe wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Bunnyhopping is fine, balances the low HP of scout suits. SMG doesn't need a nerf, its fine. The short range balances it. The HMG needs a serious buff. Why bunny hop ehen you can out run a heavies turn speed and have a smaller hitbox? The smg should be on par with other sidearms and an smg nerf seems more favorable than a pistol buff True but something in between what it was and what it is now, favoring the original According to? Look, some of us want to use other guns, not just ARs. If you want to increase the fitting requirements for the top tier SMGs to bring them in line with other weapons, I'm fine with that. I'm curious, what aspect of SMGs would you nerf? Damage like with my hmg but slightly lower due to the fact that there is no overheat. They already do less damage than ARs. The Boundless Breach is the only one above 40 damage but it has a lower rate of fire to compensate. These are the only 3 proto SMGs worth using besides the Toxin IMO: The Freedom Burst is a good sidearm if all you want to fight is at mid to long range. The Burst SMG is a lot like the Allotek AR (My favorite AR) in that it fires a burst of rounds (in this case 8) in a relatively tight pattern every time you hit R1. It's very effective up until around ~30 ft but it isn't very good for close quarters because of the burst nature and the low damage. I don't use it. ARs and HMGs will still chew you up. The Ishukone Assault is my second favorite. It is really good in close quarters but is decent at low to mid range as well. The only problem is that it eats ammo like a fat kid at a buffet. Really good for kiting SGs though as long as you keep moving. The Boundless Breach is my absolute favorite, and the one I think most people would pick to be nerfed. It has a low rate of fire but really good damage. It's amazing in close quarters but is worthless beyond ~10ft. Shotguns will eat you alive if you're not careful. Straight up, a good AR will own an SMG at range and even close quarters if you don't strafe and a good SG will one or two shot you if you don't keep moving. If you nerf the damage you're going to throw things out of whack. A heavy with an HMG should lose to a good SMG in close quarters, you have to have some weaknesses. And btw, I don't use scout suits. Don't nerf SMGs just because a scout owns your heavy, that's liable to screw me over as a result.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 10:20:00 - [15] - Quote vermacht Doe wrote: Abron Garr wrote: vermacht Doe wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Bunnyhopping is fine, balances the low HP of scout suits. SMG doesn't need a nerf, its fine. The short range balances it. The HMG needs a serious buff. Why bunny hop ehen you can out run a heavies turn speed and have a smaller hitbox? The smg should be on par with other sidearms and an smg nerf seems more favorable than a pistol buff True but something in between what it was and what it is now, favoring the original According to? Look, some of us want to use other guns, not just ARs. If you want to increase the fitting requirements for the top tier SMGs to bring them in line with other weapons, I'm fine with that. I'm curious, what aspect of SMGs would you nerf? Would you really want a standard pistol with more ammo(per clip and total) a damage increase and to top it off a sight Do you mean would I want a pistol as a sidearm when I can just use an SMG instead? Depends on what map I'm playing. The pistol actually has a better effective range and higher damage than an SMG. If I'm fighting someone further away than my SMG is effective, all I'm doing is tickling his shields. That's if the hits even register. With a pistol, the higher damage and effective range means whoever I'm unloading on will actually die. The catch is you actually have to aim, not just spray and pray. If I'm fighting indoors then no, I want my SMG. It's built specifically for that purpose.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 10:31:00 - [16] - Quote In my experience, the sights on the SMG are just a formality. Even if your hits somehow registered on someone at long range, the damage would be almost non-existent since you're so far out of your optimal. Besides, the dispersal pattern pretty much guarantees you won't land enough shots to be a concern.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 10:38:00 - [17] - Quote Derek Barnes wrote: Abron Garr wrote: If they nerf SMGs to the point of them not being worth it to use as a primary weapon, I'm just going to use a SG. Frankly, the SG is already better suited to how I fight when I feel like being selfish, but the sound is so damn annoying (second only to the Mass driver reloading volume). I prefer no nerfs at all but I really would hate to see a nerf to the SMG. Plus I'm not really comfortable with the idea of "oh it's a secondary weapon so it should automatically be less useful than a primary." The SMG is a secondary not a primary. They aren't in the same weapon slot. So you can't switch out the SMG for the Shotgun because they go in 2 different weapon slots. The only secondary weapons you can pick from right now is the SMG or the Pistol. So you either carry a SMG with you or a pistol with you along with you primary weapon. If you mean I can't put a shotgun in my suit's secondary, you're correct. If you mean I can't put an SMG in my primary, you're wrong. I carry two SMGs, a Boundless for primary and the Toxin for secondary.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 10:57:00 - [18] - Quote vermacht Doe wrote: Abron Garr wrote: In my experience, the sights on the SMG are just a formality. Even if your hits somehow registered on someone at long range, the damage would be almost non-existent since you're so far out of your optimal. Besides, the dispersal pattern pretty much guarantees you won't land enough shots to be a concern. What about making it a primary so people can't double up with it. A bit like a shot gun alternative For this build it wouldn't affect me very much, but I'm sure it would **** off a lot of people who use SMGs as a secondary. So I wouldn't feel comfortable speaking for everyone. The issue, I think, isn't the ability to double up, it's that a Heavy isn't well suited for close up fighting. There has to be a weakness for having so much defense and the ability to wield one of the best AV weapons (Forge) and, although nerfed at the moment, one of the better anti-infantry weapons (HMG).
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 11:01:00 - [19] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: Then your saying your find it hard shooting at somthing that jumps about ? Sure its not easy but dont forget the poor little scout will die in an instant if he stops moving. Also he has to try and aim at you while hoping about it goes both ways. Edit: Sorry just woke up. Yea logi is a little gimped at only 1 and the scout gets away with 2 so I kinda see your point here. Yeah, don't get me started on the Logi suit and its shortcomings.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 11:04:00 - [20] - Quote vermacht Doe wrote: Abron Garr wrote: vermacht Doe wrote: Abron Garr wrote: In my experience, the sights on the SMG are just a formality. Even if your hits somehow registered on someone at long range, the damage would be almost non-existent since you're so far out of your optimal. Besides, the dispersal pattern pretty much guarantees you won't land enough shots to be a concern. What about making it a primary so people can't double up with it. A bit like a shot gun alternative For this build it wouldn't affect me very much, but I'm sure it would **** off a lot of people who use SMGs as a secondary. So I wouldn't feel comfortable speaking for everyone. The issue, I think, isn't the ability to double up, it's that a Heavy isn't well suited for close up fighting. There has to be a weakness for having so much defense and the ability to wield one of the best AV weapons (Forge) and, although nerfed at the moment, one of the better anti-infantry weapons (HMG). Hmg has near no zoom so it should be the close range confrontation ender and the heavy is already slow and a big target It doesn't need zoom, you're not a sniper. Your job is to spill as much lead in an area as possible. It's just hard to do that now because of the HMG mechanics. For a start, they need to remove overheating. I mean it looks cool so they should keep the glow, just remove the forced cooldown.

Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 11:12:00 - [21] - Quote vermacht Doe wrote: Last time i check the ar isn't a sniper either but it has a scope And the AR is nowhere near as effective at super long ranges like a sniper rifle. The Duvolle Tactical has some range and shot control to it, but it's still no Ishukone Sniper Rifle. Just because a gun has a scope or a telescopic sight doesn't mean it's for sniping.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 11:19:00 - [22] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: vermacht Doe wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Bunnyhopping is fine, balances the low HP of scout suits. SMG doesn't need a nerf, its fine. The short range balances it. The HMG needs a serious buff. Why bunny hop ehen you can out run a heavies turn speed and have a smaller hitbox? The smg should be on par with other sidearms and an smg nerf seems more favorable than a pistol buff True but something in between what it was and what it is now, favoring the original Because mobility isn't just meant for running away. A pistol buff sounds good to me actually, maybe bigger magazine sizes. The more weapons like the SMG are overall useful like the assault rifles, the less assault rifles we will see, and the more variety of weapons used we will see also. Amen. I love the SMG. Not just for the utility either. It looks good, it sounds good, it is good. I'd certainly like to see more weapon types in the beta.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.29 22:40:00 - [23] - Quote Garma Mach wrote: Abron Garr wrote: Garma QUDA wrote: Okay before I go to bed.. Dont bash on the scout suit. Its fine. I've unloaded entire clips into Scouts, watched their shields flash and they took no damage. I suspect the crappy hit detection is to blame. It's hard to say it's fine right now. After hit detection is fixed we'll be ale to tell. Im just going to give you an answer I recieved for giving a similar statement in the past. "Your aim is crap" lol, yeah, got to love those responses.