The SMG is a secondary not a primary. They aren't in the same weapon slot. So you can't switch out the SMG for the Shotgun because they go in 2 different weapon slots. The only secondary weapons you can pick from right now is the SMG or the Pistol. So you either carry a SMG with you or a pistol with you along with you primary weapon.

In my experience, the sights on the SMG are just a formality. Even if your hits somehow registered on someone at long range, the damage would be almost non-existent since you're so far out of your optimal. Besides, the dispersal pattern pretty much guarantees you won't land enough shots to be a concern.

Funny I have no problem butchering 95% of the scout suits I come across. Come to think of it only about 4 guys I have come up against with scout suits are hard to hit and can actualy get headshots on me at the same time.

Sorry OP but maybe you need to try for more head shots and work on your aim or your havign some major lag problems.
I know if im on the Asia servers I cant get a single kill with my SMG but on the US its semi ok and on the EU well every bullet hits for sure.

What about making it a primary so people can't double up with it. A bit like a shot gun alternative

For this build it wouldn't affect me very much, but I'm sure it would **** off a lot of people who use SMGs as a secondary. So I wouldn't feel comfortable speaking for everyone.

The issue, I think, isn't the ability to double up, it's that a Heavy isn't well suited for close up fighting. There has to be a weakness for having so much defense and the ability to wield one of the best AV weapons (Forge) and, although nerfed at the moment, one of the better anti-infantry weapons (HMG).

Then your saying your find it hard shooting at somthing that jumps about ? Sure its not easy but dont forget the poor little scout will die in an instant if he stops moving. Also he has to try and aim at you while hoping about it goes both ways.

Edit: Sorry just woke up. Yea logi is a little gimped at only 1 and the scout gets away with 2 so I kinda see your point here.

Hmg has near no zoom so it should be the close range confrontation ender and the heavy is already slow and a big target

Then your saying your find it hard shooting at somthing that jumps about ? Sure its not easy but dont forget the poor little scout will die in an instant if he stops moving. Also he has to try and aim at you while hoping about it goes both ways.

Edit: Sorry just woke up. Yea logi is a little gimped at only 1 and the scout gets away with 2 so I kinda see your point here.

It doesn't need zoom, you're not a sniper. Your job is to spill as much lead in an area as possible. It's just hard to do that now because of the HMG mechanics. For a start, they need to remove overheating. I mean it looks cool so they should keep the glow, just remove the forced cooldown.

Last time i check the ar isn't a sniper either but it has a scope

Why bunny hop ehen you can out run a heavies turn speed and have a smaller hitbox?
The smg should be on par with other sidearms and an smg nerf seems more favorable than a pistol buff
True but something in between what it was and what it is now, favoring the original

Because mobility isn't just meant for running away.
A pistol buff sounds good to me actually, maybe bigger magazine sizes. The more weapons like the SMG are overall useful like the assault rifles, the less assault rifles we will see, and the more variety of weapons used we will see also.

Because mobility isn't just meant for running away.
A pistol buff sounds good to me actually, maybe bigger magazine sizes. The more weapons like the SMG are overall useful like the assault rifles, the less assault rifles we will see, and the more variety of weapons used we will see also.

Because mobility isn't just meant for running away.
A pistol buff sounds good to me actually, maybe bigger magazine sizes. The more weapons like the SMG are overall useful like the assault rifles, the less assault rifles we will see, and the more variety of weapons used we will see also.

lol no no they are OP as it is. My ones got 9 rounds in the clip thats <----------------------------------> this much pwnage

Fixed (added one more "-" so the number of characters in "<---------------------------------->" is a multiple of 9)

Ah thank you man how remiss of me


Edit now it haz 10 mahahaha

So with 2 of em that I carry thats getting on for 1800 dmg in about 4-5 seconds if they all hit lolz they nevar all hit.

Says who? I can only shoot one weapon at a time, it shouldn't matter if my weapon is classified as primary or secondary.
As for pistols, their ROF is fine, their magazine is low (which is why I don't like using them much), but the amount of damage per shot is nice, you just need to place your shots carefully. There's very little room for error with a pistol.

The scout suit and SMGs are fine. If your heavy got slaughtered by me, it's because I have put 20mil SP exclusively into being a SMG/Swarm scout. It only seems OP because I'm loading up sidearm damage mods and have almost maxed sidearm range.

There are still very effective counters to this setup. For instance, I have absolutely no anti-sniper protection. Even with the boosted range, a Sniper or AR on top of the pipes can completely lock me out of an area. I simply can't get close enough to do any real damage without leaving myself wide open. Combined with the fact that I'm still paper thin in full Proto gear, means I simply have to avoid B when the enemy is controlling the pipes above.

Rock, paper, scissors. Don't let scouts get close, flush them out of cover with 'nades, and focus fire. All the jumping around and SMG firestorms in the world can't save me from a 3v1 situation. (Assuming the 3 are remotely competent.)

Also, stop demanding Logi buffs. It only has one weapon slot because it's not supposed to be frontline infantry. What are you guys doing with all those equipment slots? I'm not seeing a lot of nanohives and drop uplinks on the field this weekend, but I am getting rushed by a lot of hapless Logi guys.

Didn't read all the posts just wanted to comment on the OP bunny hop comment.

Don't really see much bunny hopping going on due to the stamina. The only time I do it in game is when I'm facing the wrong way being shot in the back, jumping then turning is faster, and the only other time is when I'm reloading which seems to be the norm for most.

Speaking as a guy that has been assassinated but bunny hopping scouts with shotguns on many occasions I have to say I Love the scout suit! To me always having to watch your back and check your corners for those sneaky bastards adds a level of depth and excitement to the game play. Besides its not like they are impossible to kill, and when you finally kill the slippery bouncing SoB it feels great!

As for hit detection i think that needs tweaks across the board, not just with the scout suits... imo