hit detection on the scout suit has been broken since the private trials.

That raises the question should mass drivers be buffed for the beta only or should they fix hit detection sooner?

I honestly have no problem with the Mass Driver on my Logi sets. It takes awhile to get the angle right.

Nothing is wrong with SGs. All I'm saying is if you touch SMGs, but let SGs remain untouched, then all people wil luse for CQC will be SGs.

I've never used a shotgun, so i might be wrong, but aren't shotguns a primary while the SMGs are secondary. If shotguns are primary, most people are going to use all the other guns than the shotgun. So nerfing the shotgun just because of nerfing the SMG doesn't make since.

Bunnyhopping is fine, balances the low HP of scout suits.
SMG doesn't need a nerf, its fine. The short range balances it.
The HMG needs a serious buff.

The pistol is less effective so why shouldn't the smg also be less effective?

I can understand one problem associated with using a "secondary" weapon over a primary; they use less CPU/PG. So it becomes an issue of "Why should I use up 90 CPU with this AR if I can get similar or better results for little over half the fitting cost by using two secondary weapons? The easiest way to "balance" SMGs would be to increase their fitting requirements to match that of "primary" weapons.

It's less effective for you maybe. You actually have to aim with a pistol, not just spray and pray like you do with an SMG. You get higher damage per shot and longer effective range with a pistol. I do think the magazine size is very low though; going from 7 shots to 10-12 would be a lot better.

Scout HP is terrible, it can die from a few clean shots from the AR. I've been able to snipe them clean as they were doing a full perpendicular sprint. Assault Rifle hitbox detection is goofy overpowered compared to snipers, HMGs and pretty much everything except SMGs

Why bunny hop ehen you can out run a heavies turn speed and have a smaller hitbox?
The smg should be on par with other sidearms and an smg nerf seems more favorable than a pistol buff
True but something in between what it was and what it is now, favoring the original

If they nerf SMGs to the point of them not being worth it to use as a primary weapon, I'm just going to use a SG. Frankly, the SG is already better suited to how I fight when I feel like being selfish, but the sound is so damn annoying (second only to the Mass driver reloading volume). I prefer no nerfs at all but I really would hate to see a nerf to the SMG.

Plus I'm not really comfortable with the idea of "oh it's a secondary weapon so it should automatically be less useful than a primary."

According to?

Look, some of us want to use other guns, not just ARs. If you want to increase the fitting requirements for the top tier SMGs to bring them in line with other weapons, I'm fine with that. I'm curious, what aspect of SMGs would you nerf?

Since it is the smallest dropsuit available why does it have two weapons and logistic suit only has one. I think it should be the other way around?

I'm surprised nobody's commented on this yet?


Compare the Logi suit's equipment and other fitting slots. Now tell me it doesn't have some advantages of its own. They're buffing it in a couple of ways in the next build, too.

Also, the problem with indestructible Scouts is mostly with people not leading their shots, but there are hit detection issues as well.

What suit are you using?

Been using Scout for about 4 months. I prefer a shotgun/scout loadout but due to the map + AR hit detection buff change I've had to switch to sniper/scout. Which is awful for multiple reasons ranging from fitting reqs to the multiple clean shots it requires to make a kill.

Mk II, the one that forgoes a sidearm (man 1.12M SP to get the next one, yeesh)

Yeah, I'm carrying the prototype sniper rifle + 2 sprint mods + basic shield extender, locus grenades and remote explosives. This leaves an equipment slot unused but there's literally 0PG to spare with level 5 engineering skills.

ask me about disabling the defender's C-turret and flipping the northwest clone facility within 50 seconds of the match starting

According to?

Look, some of us want to use other guns, not just ARs. If you want to increase the fitting requirements for the top tier SMGs to bring them in line with other weapons, I'm fine with that. I'm curious, what aspect of SMGs would you nerf?

Damage like with my hmg but slightly lower due to the fact that there is no overheat.

Would you really want a standard pistol with more ammo(per clip and total) a damage increase and to top it off a sight

They already do less damage than ARs. The Boundless Breach is the only one above 40 damage but it has a lower rate of fire to compensate.

These only 3 proto SMGs worth using besides the Toxin IMO:

The Freedom Burst is a good sidearm if all you want to fight is at mid to long range. The Burst SMG is a lot like the Allotek AR (My favorite AR) in that it fires a burst of rounds (in this case 8) in a relatively tight pattern every time you hit R1. It's very effective up until around ~30 ft but it isn't very good for close quarters because of the burst nature and the low damage. I don't use it. ARs and HMGs will still chew you up.

The Ishukone Assault is my second favorite. It is really good in close quarters but is decent at low to mid range as well. The only problem is that it eats ammo like a fat kid at a buffet. Really good for kiting SGs though as long as you keep moving.

The Boundless is my absolute favorite, and the one I think most people would pick to be nerfed. It has a low rate of fire but really good damage. It's amazing in close quarters but is worthless beyond ~10ft.

Straight up, a good AR will own an SMG at range and even close quarters if you don't strafe and a good SG will one or two shot you if you don't keep moving. If you nerf the damage you're going to throw things out of whack. A heavy with an HMG should lose to a good SMG in close quarters, you have to have some weaknesses. And btw, I don't use scout suits. Don't nerf SMGs just because a scout owns your heavy, that's liable to screw me over as a result.

Do you mean would I want a pistol as a sidearm when I can just use an SMG instead?

Depends on what map I'm playing. The pistol actually has a better effective range and higher damage than an SMG. If I'm fighting someone further away than my SMG is effective, all I'm doing is tickling his shields. That's if the hits even register. With a pistol, the higher damage and effective range means whoever I'm unloading on will actually die. The catch is you actually have to aim, not just spray and pray. If I'm fighting indoors then no, I want my SMG. It's built specifically for that purpose.