According to the description of the skills, increasing the railgun skills only unlocks the next railgun. And I'm sure if you unlock the proto forge gun, you will see that even the best fitting on a sagaris can't hold up at all. About 4 shots is all it takes with the best shield extender and the best shield booster running at the same time. The only option is to try to hide or run if you can react in time and have an escape route. Trying to stand and fight against a forge gun is suicide, this shouldn't be the case when you consider it's an HAV vs Infantry. It's hard to hit someone direct with a rail gun so you rely on splash damage, proto heavies are at an advantage with even minimal cover. I'll give some of these guys credit though, I had one jump on top of my tank with a forge gun, I had to get out and shoot him to get him to jump off. If I didn't have a gunner at the time, he still would have finished me off. I don't mind being taken out by someone with skill, but camping on top of a tower taking cheap shots at large targets with an OP weapon is a different story. That's why I'm upset that they nerfed the remote explosives, at least when those get you, you know you were bested by someone with balls.

Proto swarms are almost worse since you can't avoid them once they are locked on.

The point is that a Marauder should never be an easy target, regardless of how good your gear is. It should take no less than multiple people attacking it or another marauder, or at least another HAV. Even the standard tanks should be more of a concern to an HAV driver than a Heavy which isn't the case. This makes no sense to me.

And like I said, I don't think the forge gun should be rendered useless, it should still be effective against an HAV, just not that effective. If you think I'm doing it wrong, unlock a marauder and see for yourself what it takes to keep them alive.

Well, perhaps the marauder needs an armor buff, rather than forge guns needing a nerf, considering that the Sagaris shrugs off forgegun hits like they're just a pellet gun. What is the supposed "role" of a marauder on the battlefield? anti-vehicle or anti-infantry?

Lets think about this...

The heaviest mounting you can attach a Forge Gun to will die to a near miss from a Railgun.

A Marauder can take several hits from the Forge Gun.

I don't think it's OP.

marauders have a built in 50% damage bonus.

so you're 1,350 advanced railgun actually deals 2025 base damage on a sagaris or surya.

then all the other reasons you're wrong. like charge time and the ability to be aimed and infinite ammo and more shots before overheat than shots before reload.

Eh, my marauder does take forge gunners better then other marauders.

When another marauder shoots me, I am getting hit for over 2000 damage, but my tank due to being built properly will take much more then three or four of your shots. Seriously.

Also my railgun has a 5 meter splash with 775 damage on my marauder, counting damage bonuses. Very hard for you to dodge that. Did I mention the unlimited ammunition?

My standard Sagaris fit:

Low slots: One CPU upgrade two PH upgrades (forget which level).

Weapon Slots: The best Railgun in the game (base 550 splash and 1350 damage direct, over 2000 counting 50% Marauder bonus). Two XT-1 Missile Turrets.

High slots (here is where it really counts):

Best shield booster in the game

Best Shield Extender in the game

Two 25% damage resists

One 14% DCU.

Now look at what this means:
My base armor is 1000, 1250 counting my mechanics V, counting the 14% resist means an EHP of 1453.
My base shield is 5305, 6631 counting my Shield Management V, counting the 60.75% resist (counting stacking penalties) means an EHP of 16894
My Booster can do five pulses of 328 each, which is a total of 1640, so using my resists this demands you deal an additional 4178 to overcome it.

That is a total of 22525 damage for you to kill me in a stand-up slug-fest.

Now, remind me how much your forge gun does?

This is a Real Sagaris fit. Proper fits like this si what you should be gauging yourself against, not the fits that people can barely cobble together due to being poor or low-skills or just plain bad with fittings.

And yes, I rarely die.

Eh, my marauder does take forge gunners better then other marauders.

When another marauder shoots me, I am getting hit for over 2000 damage, but my tank due to being built properly will take much more then three or four of your shots. Seriously.

Also my railgun has a 5 meter splash with 775 damage on my marauder, counting damage bonuses. Very hard for you to dodge that. Did I mention the unlimited ammunition?

My standard Sagaris fit:

Low slots: One CPU upgrade two PH upgrades (forget which level).

Weapon Slots: The best Railgun in the game (base 550 splash and 1350 damage direct, over 2000 counting 50% Marauder bonus). Two XT-1 Missile Turrets.

High slots (here is where it really counts):

Best shield booster in the game

Best Shield Extender in the game

Two 25% damage resists

One 14% DCU.

Now look at what this means:
My base armor is 1000, 1250 counting my mechanics V, counting the 14% resist means an EHP of 1453.
My base shield is 5305, 6631 counting my Shield Management V, counting the 60.75% resist (counting stacking penalties) means an EHP of 16894
My Booster can do five pulses of 328 each, which is a total of 1640, so using my resists this demands you deal an additional 4178 to overcome it.

That is a total of 22525 damage for you to kill me in a stand-up slug-fest.

Now, remind me how much your forge gun does?

This is a Real Sagaris fit. Proper fits like this si what you should be gauging yourself against, not the fits that people can barely cobble together due to being poor or low-skills or just plain bad with fittings.

And yes, I rarely die.

You are partially right, the 1.5x damage on the marauder makes the railgun deal more damage(2025 is a direct hit, it's hard to hit moving infantry directly), however, "aimed" doesn't do anything in a tank, there is no zoom, it's just a switch to first person with 1x magnification. . Single shot charge time on a tank is .8 seconds, forge guns are 3.5 sec and 2.5 sec respectively, less once the skill has been trained up, so the HAV wins there. Multiple shots are hard to aim in an HAV due to recoil, so controlled fire(at range) is about the same speed as a forge gun, with the advantage going to assault forge guns(but not by much). Keep in mind, the forge gun has a larger target to shoot at, HAVs can be seen from a longer distance, and have a difficult time finding cover.

Unlimited ammo is definitely something I didn't take into consideration, but usually when they are camping on a tower they have nanohives. Not to mention it's almost impossible to hit an elevated target in an HAV.


I'm wondering how many of you guys are heavies who don't want your forge guns nerfed. I understand, I like getting one hit kills too. I'm not suggesting they be dropped to the level of Swarm launchers or anything, just enough to where a proto forge gun can't solo a maurader without a reload or two. It's easier for a proto heavy to take out a marauder than the opposite, UNLESS you score a direct hit on the heavy with a railgun. I can't speak as to the effectiveness of the large missile launchers, I don't use them.

I am curious as to where you find the info about stacking penalties.

TL;DR: OP is indeed, doing it wrong...

ok now you're just embarrasing yourself, you CAN zoom with railguns. once you click the analog stick to line your camera up with the barrel, hold L1... and even if you couldn't, the ability to aim is still noteworthy since the forge gun cannot be shouldered at all. it's all hipfire all the time.

not to mention zaroul pretty much just proved with math what we were all suspecting anyway, a GOOD marauder DOESN'T die in 3, 4, or even 5 and 6 hits from a forge gun...

just because it's a marauder hull doesn't mean you get to automatically win. if you drive a sucky marauder, you will get sucky results.


as for us being heavies trying to protect our "op" weapon, i am insulted by the very suggestion. i run assault. i find the heavy suit WORTHLESS. they NERFED the forge gun AND the hmg because of people like you, screaming your heads off because the game is imbalanced in your IMAGINATION! seriously... you don't know you can zoom a railgun, but you're going to lecture us on game balance and accuse us of bias...

GOOD DAY SIR!

I run proto forge when fighting vehicles. Maybe 10% of the tanks I fight (excluding miltia) die within 4 shots. This is with 10% damage multiplier. Most the time I can not get 4 shots off without them turning corners or going out of range. I probably have 30 hrs of playtime with this setup.

I'm curious on what module you took out for the extra shield amplifier.

I WAS running a shield recharger thinking the stacking penalty was greater than that. Obviously that was a bad move.

Zoom would make it significantly harder to aim with... That thing has more and much faster sway than a sniper when you're charging! And if you got rid of the sway, then they really would be OP, 1.2k damage from the standard is more damage than any heavy can take..

Now, look at the other stats on the railgun vs forge gun issue. Hows the charge time? accuracy rating? splash damage? Also, how much do railgun skills affect railgun stats? I know forge gun operation gives a 3% decrease to charge time per level, and proficiency gives +5% damage (I think, I haven't bought it yet, but thats what I recall seeing in the market). What bonuses do the skills for a railgun offer? I don't use vehicles so I'm not sure about any of that stuff.

I use the advanced assault forge gun currently, and going through literally every round I have PLUS my AV grenades, I cannot break through the shields on a proto sagaris if they are paying attention and using their shield regenerators. My thoughts.... You're Doing It Wrong

Well, perhaps the marauder needs an armor buff, rather than forge guns needing a nerf, considering that the Sagaris shrugs off forgegun hits like they're just a pellet gun. What is the supposed "role" of a marauder on the battlefield? anti-vehicle or anti-infantry?

I agree with the OP.

The range, instant hit and damage of a full proto forge gun is moronic. I have my Myron fully spec'd out as a shield tanking gunship, I don't carry a CRU as I don't want muppets in my gunship shooting at silly things when I'm pointing them at and tanking a tank.

I can survive against any tank in the game some of the best swarm launchers are a difficulty and will force me to fly away and take evasive action but you do not get this opportunity with a forge.

The forge on most vehicles is a one or two shot hit. The proto forge is a one hit kill unless they user of the vehicle has spec'd and spent money on a shield fit like myself. The issue is INFINATE RANGE, INSTANT HIT, GOOD TRACKING, GOOD REFIRE & of course MASSIVE DAMAGE.

If a Heavy can carry around a weapon that does more damage than the best railgun in the game then why do we have tanks?

This weapon needs a serious nerfing!

FG ate to accuact they shouldn't be able to hit a infintry at medium range most of the time, and a AV weapon shouldn't be so good vs infintry. Lower its accuacy at range so it cant hit a dropsuit but it can still hit a vehicle.
Give it a despersion effect so by the time it gets to a certain range it doesn't do as much damage. Since you know it is a short range AV weapon.

And since its a AV weapon and adsuming it firing a lot of mass and not all of that plasma would hit a smaller dropsuit I think it should do 35% less damage vs infintry. However I think its damage vs vehicles is good as is

My problems stem from being out sniped by a forgevgun at med range when I am the sniper. And from being sniped by a spawncamper on a building from long range.

FG ate to accuact they shouldn't be able to hit a infintry at medium range most of the time, and a AV weapon shouldn't be so good vs infintry. Lower its accuacy at range so it cant hit a dropsuit but it can still hit a vehicle.
Give it a despersion effect so by the time it gets to a certain range it doesn't do as much damage. Since you know it is a short range AV weapon.

And since its a AV weapon and adsuming it firing a lot of mass and not all of that plasma would hit a smaller dropsuit I think it should do 35% less damage vs infintry. However I think its damage vs vehicles is good as is

My problems stem from being out sniped by a forgevgun at med range when I am the sniper. And from being sniped by a spawncamper on a building from long range.