DUST Search - EVE = Trolling: The Game? What does that mean for DUST?

Ancaris Tenarre wrote:

EnglishSnake wrote:

Put it this way

A EVE corp may hire your DUST corp to take down a planet

The DUST corp may take it because its a juicy profit for everyone and may not really care about who they are fighting, the same EVE corp may then use another corp to get some defenders into place

As the match starts both EVE corps may have 1 person on the filed of play maybe even in both DUST corps, the match may go on for 10mins with both sides doing okay and its a close match

Then if and when the EVE players get bored they may just unleash OB from 100ships thanks to the players they have on the ground and just kill everyone for the fun of it and it will also include the hiring corp killing the corp they hired so teamkilling just for ***** n giggles

If they can do it, it will happen, someone will do it and its a just a matter of when

See, it's stuff like this I'm concerned about. I was reading about peoples' experiences on DayZ the other day and it was basically "spawn -> run into some other guy -> [optional: other guy pretends to be friendly for a while] -> get raeped -> repeat"; a lot of people were saying it's basically like that because that's(apparently) the only way to turn an "otherwise boring game" fun.

I was hoping(foolishly I guess, because my hopes were largely unsubstantiated) that this game would be different, and really provide the compelling, realistic feel I'm looking for. But I guess people can only get off on mindlessly killing others, whether it's in a run-and-gun CoD type game or one where you have to plan and scheme and use real-world market manipulation and social engineering tactics.

Ugh, internet, I am disappoint.

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Ancaris Tenarre Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 15	Posted - 2012.07.25 17:02:00 - [1] - Quote Dear EVE players, I'm a newcomer to the DUST/EVE universe and up until today knew next to nothing about how **** goes down in New Eden. Well, I finally decided to do some research, and holy balls, I've only just started to scratch the surface and already I'm alarmed by the amount of piracy, scamming, and general ass-hattery that seems to go on in it. So basically, I have a two-part question: 1) Is EVE really as ruthless and unforgiving as it seems? 2) If so, what does this mean for DUST? Has CCP mentioned trying to tone down some of those aspects to give less psychotic players a chance? EDIT: Just for the record, I'm all for ruthless and unforgiving as long as it's actually used to achieve something. Cruelty for the sake of cruelty is what I'm really concerned about.
VELOCIRAPTOR MORTIS Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 12	Posted - 2012.07.25 17:08:00 - [2] - Quote Ancaris Tenarre wrote: Dear EVE players, I'm a newcomer to the DUST/EVE universe and up until today knew next to nothing about how **** goes down in New Eden. Well, I finally decided to do some research, and holy balls, I've only just started to scratched the surface and already I'm alarmed by the amount of piracy, scamming, and general ass-hattery that seems to go on in it. So basically, I have a two-part question: 1) Is EVE really as ruthless and unforgiving as it seems? 2) If so, what does this mean for DUST? Has CCP mentioned trying to tone down some of those aspects to give more "casual" players a chance? from what i got, there is a massive amount of dedicated core players, and if you run into them they will squish you like the insignifigant insect you are to them. same seems to be happening in Dust already. the people that new the levaling system are going straight for the specific build and punishing those who cross there path. however this is basically what is suppose to happen. once it's live the newer players will probably benefit from completeing the mission agains the AI rather than trying to mix it up in skirmish. plus you have to remember once EVE's pilots come into play, they are already leveled.
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.07.25 17:10:00 - [3] - Quote Ancaris Tenarre wrote: Dear EVE players, I'm a newcomer to the DUST/EVE universe and up until today knew next to nothing about how **** goes down in New Eden. Well, I finally decided to do some research, and holy balls, I've only just started to scratch the surface and already I'm alarmed by the amount of piracy, scamming, and general ass-hattery that seems to go on in it. So basically, I have a two-part question: 1) Is EVE really as ruthless and unforgiving as it seems? 2) If so, what does this mean for DUST? Has CCP mentioned trying to tone down some of those aspects to give more "casual" players a chance? It's unforgiving to the player who is lazy, impatient, and AFK. It takes more attention than other MMOs but if you're cautious and use common sense and study up on things before doing them you do fine. It's better tho to have a large group to play with, stregnth in numbers. CCP aren't known to make their games less harsh, you'll probly have to adapt to any metagaming that goes on. But the griefers are not immortals in EVE. There are players who bait and counter grief the griefers.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.07.25 17:16:00 - [4] - Quote Put it this way A EVE corp may hire your DUST corp to take down a planet The DUST corp may take it because its a juicy profit for everyone and may not really care about who they are fighting, the same EVE corp may then use another corp to get some defenders into place As the match starts both EVE corps may have 1 person on the filed of play maybe even in both DUST corps, the match may go on for 10mins with both sides doing okay and its a close match Then if and when the EVE players get bored they may just unleash OB from 100ships thanks to the players they have on the ground and just kill everyone for the fun of it and it will also include the hiring corp killing the corp they hired so teamkilling just for ***** n giggles If they can do it, it will happen, someone will do it and its a just a matter of when
Maken Tosch 263	Posted - 2012.07.25 17:24:00 - [5] - Quote The folks who responded to the OP are correct. Also, to answer your question, yes. Eve Online is just as ruthless as it seems. New Eden is where all the other MMO players go to when other games like WoW, Second Life, etc. have booted them out or rejected them for being ass-hats. And no, CCP has no plans to tone that down in Dust. Judging from what they mentioned in Fanfest 2012 and during the E3 Sony Press Conference of 2012, Dust 514 will expand on that same universe. CCP's CEO Hilmar Peturrson even mentioned during interview that backstabbing is to be expected in Dust 514. Welcome to New Eden. You will never find a more vicious hive of scum and villainy. PS: Since Eve Online already has corporations/alliances such as Eve-University and Red-vs-Blue that are tailored towards helping new players learn the ropes on fleet battles, industry, and other things, we can expect to see them cross over to Dust and help out the new comers. This will be beneficial to everyone especially since you and I will begin the game with the knowledge of how the game works. In other words, you and I are students who are about to become the teachers of future students.
Ancaris Tenarre Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 15	Posted - 2012.07.25 17:27:00 - [6] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Put it this way A EVE corp may hire your DUST corp to take down a planet The DUST corp may take it because its a juicy profit for everyone and may not really care about who they are fighting, the same EVE corp may then use another corp to get some defenders into place As the match starts both EVE corps may have 1 person on the filed of play maybe even in both DUST corps, the match may go on for 10mins with both sides doing okay and its a close match Then if and when the EVE players get bored they may just unleash OB from 100ships thanks to the players they have on the ground and just kill everyone for the fun of it and it will also include the hiring corp killing the corp they hired so teamkilling just for ***** n giggles If they can do it, it will happen, someone will do it and its a just a matter of when See, it's stuff like this I'm concerned about. I was reading about peoples' experiences on DayZ the other day and it was basically "spawn -> run into some other guy -> [optional: other guy pretends to be friendly for a while] -> get raeped -> repeat"; a lot of people were saying it's basically like that because that's(apparently) the only way to turn an "otherwise boring game" fun. I was hoping(foolishly I guess, because my hopes were largely unsubstantiated) that this game would be different, and really provide the compelling, realistic feel I'm looking for. But I guess people can only get off on mindlessly killing others, whether it's in a run-and-gun CoD type game or one where you have to plan and scheme and use real-world market manipulation and social engineering tactics. Ugh, internet, I am disappoint.
Genhawkk Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 19	Posted - 2012.07.25 17:37:00 - [7] - Quote Ancaris Tenarre wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: Put it this way A EVE corp may hire your DUST corp to take down a planet The DUST corp may take it because its a juicy profit for everyone and may not really care about who they are fighting, the same EVE corp may then use another corp to get some defenders into place As the match starts both EVE corps may have 1 person on the filed of play maybe even in both DUST corps, the match may go on for 10mins with both sides doing okay and its a close match Then if and when the EVE players get bored they may just unleash OB from 100ships thanks to the players they have on the ground and just kill everyone for the fun of it and it will also include the hiring corp killing the corp they hired so teamkilling just for ***** n giggles If they can do it, it will happen, someone will do it and its a just a matter of when See, it's stuff like this I'm concerned about. I was reading about peoples' experiences on DayZ the other day and it was basically "spawn -> run into some other guy -> [optional: other guy pretends to be friendly for a while] -> get raeped -> repeat"; a lot of people were saying it's basically like that because that's(apparently) the only way to turn an "otherwise boring game" fun. I was hoping(foolishly I guess, because my hopes were largely unsubstantiated) that this game would be different, and really provide the compelling, realistic feel I'm looking for. But I guess people can only get off on mindlessly killing others, whether it's in a run-and-gun CoD type game or one where you have to plan and scheme and use real-world market manipulation and social engineering tactics. Ugh, internet, I am disappoint. Its an FPS.... not SIMS online or any other "lets hold hands and run through the forest pretending to be dragons and wizards"
Aijul ZionTCD Legacy Rising 55	Posted - 2012.07.25 17:37:00 - [8] - Quote So in short, EVE and DUST are more "srs bzns" than games? I'm still not clear on what they're truly about really.
XxSaya-ChanxX Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2012.07.25 17:42:00 - [9] - Quote Lol if your looking for great gameplay from eve, its got none lol gameplay sucks pretty bad but its a great game to be a douche on haha. I definitely like how eve works even if its too harsh on newcomers, i think theyll figure out a way to get dust and eve to work together. i have a feeling though a lot of eve corps are goin to be coksukers and send a bunch of dust corps on suicide missions just for laughs.
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 781	Posted - 2012.07.25 17:43:00 - [10] - Quote Aijul wrote: So in short, EVE and DUST are more "srs bzns" than games? I'm still not clear on what they're truly about really. I don't think you're the only one who has the "what the hell is going on in New Eden" I think it would be a good idea for CCP to include a brief introduction/explanation video before you start DUST for the first time. Nothing long, just like 3 to 4 minutes, explaining why you are who you are, what you're supposed to do. This may already be planned for the final build.

mandrill the red Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 21	Posted - 2012.07.25 17:51:00 - [11] - Quote Yes, there are asshats in EVE, but there are also decent people. Rule one in EVE: don't fly anything you can't afford to lose. Rule 2: Be very, very careful who you trust. Rule one doesn't really apply obviously but rule 2 will. Of course you need not get involved with the Meta-game at all , unless that's something that interests you. Griefing generally only happens when there's some kind of profit in it for the griefer. Take Hulkageddon for example. That is organised by someone who manufactures and sells Hulks.
Ancaris Tenarre Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 15	Posted - 2012.07.25 17:53:00 - [12] - Quote (...Seriously? You can't delete a mis-post?)
mandrill the red Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 21	Posted - 2012.07.25 17:55:00 - [13] - Quote Quote: I think it would be a good idea for CCP to include a brief introduction/explanation video before you start DUST for the first time. Hah! CCP has about as much idea of what's going on in the EVE meta-game as anyone else. a 4 min video is not going to prepare anyone for the depth and complexity that awaits them. Of course you only need to worry about that depth if it's something that interests you.
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 781	Posted - 2012.07.25 18:00:00 - [14] - Quote mandrill the red wrote: Quote: I think it would be a good idea for CCP to include a brief introduction/explanation video before you start DUST for the first time. Hah! CCP has about as much idea of what's going on in the EVE meta-game as anyone else. a 4 min video is not going to prepare anyone for the depth and complexity that awaits them. Of course you only need to worry about that depth if it's something that interests you. I'm not asking for the video archives to be condensed into 4 minutes. But as it stands now, when you launch the game, there is nothing telling the consumer why the hell they're in space and what they are there for.
Cyn Bruin 90	Posted - 2012.07.25 18:10:00 - [15] - Quote To OP: 1. Yes, everything is as cut throat and diabolical as it seems. 2. CCP probably wont do anything, not much happens to ass-hattery in EVE and it wont change in DUST. Although, for a casual player the in depth political stuff that goes on with sovereignty/planets in EVE probably won't affect the way you play the game at all. I think the bigger question for EVE/DUST interaction is this: Will 40k (at max players) on EVE be able to support the hundereds of thousands of mercenaries that will flood the servers at launch? Alot of these bigger corporations will already have teams of dusters (if not themselves) put together, which leaves alot out in the cold. If less than 50% of the DUST player base is involved in faction/planet battles, DUST will not reach the pinnacle of it's greatness. Alot needs to go right for EVE/DUST players to experience the ultimate COOL that this game can bring.
Cyris Fortune ZionTCD Legacy Rising 66	Posted - 2012.07.25 18:15:00 - [16] - Quote IMO dust merc are pawns and will be used and abused. There will however be a small number who will play "the game". By doing thier own double dealing, infiltrating / espionage, profiteering. Merced can IMO play as bigger role as they wish. Many of the actions mercs do in dust will affect dust more so than it will eve. In the same light it's the smallest spark that can light a touch paper in the bigger picture. So for me the rules of dust are simple. Trust no one! Take everything! Regret nothing! Let's see how far this rabbit hole goes.
Ancaris Tenarre Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 15	Posted - 2012.07.25 18:21:00 - [17] - Quote Cyn Bruin wrote: Although, for a casual player the in depth political stuff that goes on with sovereignty/planets in EVE probably won't affect the way you play the game at all. See, maybe I'm not getting my point across exactly. I'm totally on board with realistic politics/economics, sovereignty wars, corporate espionage; that's the reason I even became interested in DUST to begin with. The problem I have is when players start using all of these elements(intelligently and cunningly no less!) just so that they can blow up some guys or troll somebody who's spent months building up a company. Not to actually achieve anything or shift the balance of power or whatever, just so that they can laugh and point at somebody and say "ahahaha you suuuuuuck neener neener neener." I don't know, how is it even possible for someone to possess both characteristics?
Milk Supreme ZionTCD Legacy Rising 127	Posted - 2012.07.25 18:27:00 - [18] - Quote Don't worry, DUST will be eased into the universe. Upon launch, the ties will be very little and each segment will be progressively introduced as game mechanics (clans, corporations and alliances forming) and economics start to stable (vehicle and weapon market being manufactured and prices start to stabalise). Orbital bombardment and private contracts will probably the first link, followed by the market. Depending on how much cohesion DUST and EVE plays after that will determine how much of a role DUST will play in the grand scheme of things. Currently, all they will do is disrupt the production of planetary materials, which won't really upset the market much. Hopefully as the number count goes up for DUST players, it will really destabalise the PI materials, showing that DUST is really out to prove something. After that point will CCP decide whether to tie them into Sovereignty warfare or not, as that is a big deal.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 437	Posted - 2012.07.25 18:27:00 - [19] - Quote We're only here cause of the promise of a fresh source of noobs we can make cry.
Stabber McShank Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2012.07.25 18:32:00 - [20] - Quote Examples of how ruthless Eve really is (the below are all legitimate gameplay activities endorsed by CCP): 1 - Join an industrial Corp with the sole intention of ganking every single one of their mining ships and then daring them to undock so you can kill them again. <---- Guilty of said crime 2 - Join a random Corp and play nice until you gain access to the corp wallet/assets, steal everything they own, start a share vote to kick out the CEO, then ransom the Corp itself back to the original owners (actually returning the Corp is optional). <---- Has alliance mates that do this all the time 3 - Set up fake courier contracts and gank whoever tries to actually do the delivery thereby costing the courier the collateral money + the cost of his ship and implants. <---- Guilty of said crime 4 - Convince an Alliance-level Director to defect after stealing everything not nailed down, kicking every single member of the alliance (thousands of players), and then disbanding the alliance so all territory is instantly lost. <----- I laughed my ass off when we did this to BoB and laughed just as hard when Karttoon did the same to us. 5 - Create fake contracts, scam contracts, fake investment schemes, and fake trades with the sole purpose of lying, cheating, and stealing anything possible from fellow players. <---- Guilty of said crime 6 - Blowing up EVERY ship that dares to undock from an enemy station after destroying the cloning and ship services so that anyone who dies loses skill points on every death and can't even fit a ship for combat with the sole purpose of making them not to want to log into Eve. <---- Guilty of purging the unclean from the RIT triangle

Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 397	Posted - 2012.07.25 18:37:00 - [21] - Quote EVE's not really my bag (tried the demo, barely got beyond character creation), but I get the feeling that the outside media coverage makes it seem more intimidating than it actually is. You're not going to see Cracked lists about all the nice things people have done for each other in an MMO or all the times that people aren't screwed over. It's the massive heists, pyramid schemes, and ganking that cause virtual ink to spill. This is not to say that it isn't the wild west, though. It's just probably not quite as bad as we, the uninitiated, hear on the intertubes.
Stabber McShank Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2012.07.25 18:41:00 - [22] - Quote The list I just posted is stuff I have personally been part or members of my Alliance are currently doing RIGHT NOW. The sad part is, it doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of some of the REAL griefing I have enjoyed doing to others or having done to me.
Milk Supreme ZionTCD Legacy Rising 127	Posted - 2012.07.25 18:41:00 - [23] - Quote 500,000 members Not everyone is a sleeze bag
Stabber McShank Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2012.07.25 18:43:00 - [24] - Quote Milk Supreme wrote: Not everyone is a sleeze bag Only the successful ones.
Milk Supreme ZionTCD Legacy Rising 127	Posted - 2012.07.25 18:45:00 - [25] - Quote Stabber McShank wrote: Milk Supreme wrote: Not everyone is a sleeze bag Only the successful ones. In a capitalist society, it's certainly the highway there
Stabber McShank Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2012.07.25 18:49:00 - [26] - Quote Milk Supreme wrote: Stabber McShank wrote: Milk Supreme wrote: Not everyone is a sleeze bag Only the successful ones. In a capitalist society, it's certainly the highway there Actually the more successful Eve Alliances run a strictly Socialist structure. With the ever changing Eve battlefield, Democratic processes are way too inefficient to respond to threats in adequate time.
Ancaris Tenarre Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 15	Posted - 2012.07.25 18:50:00 - [27] - Quote Milk Supreme wrote: In a capitalist society, it's certainly the highway there Wrong. Without getting into politics too much, a(pure) capitalist society should work perfectly. The only reason it seemingly doesn't is because A) What most of us know as a democratic/capitalist society more closely mirrors traditional tribal/caste structures, and B)Even if there were a country on earth that had a real capitalist system, it would probably quickly fail not because of any inherent flaws in the system, but because people are too stupid to exercise their power as consumers. /semi-rant Anyway, after having my fears more or less confirmed, I'm seriously considering just quitting while I'm ahead. Is anyone going to come in here and show me that there's a glimmer of decency in this hellhole?
Stabber McShank Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2012.07.25 18:53:00 - [28] - Quote Ancaris Tenarre wrote: Is anyone going to come in here and show me that there's a glimmer of decency in this hellhole? The problem you are facing is simple. The Eve Universe is actually designed so that only the Sociopaths among you will be successful. Unlike many other developers out there, CCP does not even try to keep the griefing, scamming, lying, cheating, stealing, and douche-baggery to a minimum. It is actually what attracted most of the players to Eve in the first place. What other game developers would make a video like THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5xvkAPXB9c
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 212	Posted - 2012.07.25 20:28:00 - [29] - Quote Ancaris Tenarre wrote: Cyn Bruin wrote: Although, for a casual player the in depth political stuff that goes on with sovereignty/planets in EVE probably won't affect the way you play the game at all. See, maybe I'm not getting my point across exactly. I'm totally on board with realistic politics/economics, sovereignty wars, corporate espionage; that's the reason I even became interested in DUST to begin with. The problem I have is when players start using all of these elements(intelligently and cunningly no less!) just so that they can blow up some guys or troll somebody who's spent months building up a company. Not to actually achieve anything or shift the balance of power or whatever, just so that they can laugh and point at somebody and say "ahahaha you suuuuuuck neener neener neener." I don't know, how is it even possible for someone to possess both characteristics? Its a numbers game. yes you will see a lot of screwing with people because you can but the effect on you will be minimal 99% of the time and depending how you pay it potentially beneficial. The only reason EVE works out is because its very time consuming to pull off the majority of what in most games would be abuse. so yes you get greifers, and they will seem to cause massive numbers of problems but the effect on any one individual is always minimal.(where individual learned from last time =1) Inthe case of focused attacks the cost to the attacker quickly ends the assault, and the attacked if smart and lucky will be fine, if not then they will not suffer an unrecoverable loss and in most cases their attackers are not in a position to lose a lot. beh im not explaining this well but there is a place for all sorts in eve, and hopefully in dust, and that creates exactly what I think you want, because you cant have a realistic system with out abuse. CCP just does what happens in the real world and tweaks the system so that abuse is does not over run the normal function of the game.
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 212	Posted - 2012.07.25 20:30:00 - [30] - Quote Knarf Black wrote: EVE's not really my bag (tried the demo, barely got beyond character creation), but I get the feeling that the outside media coverage makes it seem more intimidating than it actually is. You're not going to see Cracked lists about all the nice things people have done for each other in an MMO or all the times that people aren't screwed over. It's the massive heists, pyramid schemes, and ganking that cause virtual ink to spill. This is not to say that it isn't the wild west, though. It's just probably not quite as bad as we, the uninitiated, hear on the intertubes. Well put this is very true.



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