DUST Search - EVE = Trolling: The Game? What does that mean for DUST?

Stabber McShank wrote:

Examples of how ruthless Eve really is (the below are all legitimate gameplay activities endorsed by CCP):

1 - Join an industrial Corp with the sole intention of ganking every single one of their mining ships and then daring them to undock so you can kill them again.

<---- Guilty of said crime

2 - Join a random Corp and play nice until you gain access to the corp wallet/assets, steal everything they own, start a share vote to kick out the CEO, then ransom the Corp itself back to the original owners (actually returning the Corp is optional).

<---- Has alliance mates that do this all the time

3 - Set up fake courier contracts and gank whoever tries to actually do the delivery thereby costing the courier the collateral money + the cost of his ship and implants.

<---- Guilty of said crime

4 - Convince an Alliance-level Director to defect after stealing everything not nailed down, kicking every single member of the alliance (thousands of players), and then disbanding the alliance so all territory is instantly lost.

<----- I laughed my ass off when we did this to BoB and laughed just as hard when Karttoon did the same to us.

5 - Create fake contracts, scam contracts, fake investment schemes, and fake trades with the sole purpose of lying, cheating, and stealing anything possible from fellow players.

<---- Guilty of said crime

6 - Blowing up EVERY ship that dares to undock from an enemy station after destroying the cloning and ship services so that anyone who dies loses skill points on every death and can't even fit a ship for combat with the sole purpose of making them not to want to log into Eve.

<---- Guilty of purging the unclean from the RIT triangle

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Super Cargo Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 428	Posted - 2012.07.25 20:32:00 - [31] - Quote Ancaris Tenarre wrote: Dear EVE players, I'm a newcomer to the DUST/EVE universe and up until today knew next to nothing about how **** goes down in New Eden. Well, I finally decided to do some research, and holy balls, I've only just started to scratch the surface and already I'm alarmed by the amount of piracy, scamming, and general ass-hattery that seems to go on in it. So basically, I have a two-part question: 1) Is EVE really as ruthless and unforgiving as it seems? 2) If so, what does this mean for DUST? Has CCP mentioned trying to tone down some of those aspects to give less psychotic players a chance? EDIT: Just for the record, I'm all for ruthless and unforgiving as long as it's actually used to achieve something. Cruelty for the sake of cruelty is what I'm really concerned about. It means watch your ass
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2012.07.25 22:33:00 - [32] - Quote Ancaris Tenarre wrote: Dear EVE players, I'm a newcomer to the DUST/EVE universe and up until today knew next to nothing about how **** goes down in New Eden. Well, I finally decided to do some research, and holy balls, I've only just started to scratch the surface and already I'm alarmed by the amount of piracy, scamming, and general ass-hattery that seems to go on in it. So basically, I have a two-part question: 1) Is EVE really as ruthless and unforgiving as it seems? 2) If so, what does this mean for DUST? Has CCP mentioned trying to tone down some of those aspects to give less psychotic players a chance? EDIT: Just for the record, I'm all for ruthless and unforgiving as long as it's actually used to achieve something. Cruelty for the sake of cruelty is what I'm really concerned about. Obvious troll.
Maken Tosch 263	Posted - 2012.07.25 22:38:00 - [33] - Quote Knarf Black wrote: EVE's not really my bag (tried the demo, barely got beyond character creation), but I get the feeling that the outside media coverage makes it seem more intimidating than it actually is. You're not going to see Cracked lists about all the nice things people have done for each other in an MMO or all the times that people aren't screwed over. It's the massive heists, pyramid schemes, and ganking that cause virtual ink to spill. This is not to say that it isn't the wild west, though. It's just probably not quite as bad as we, the uninitiated, hear on the intertubes. Oh, it is as bad to those who are not use to living in a cut-throat game where there is so very little in the way of law that even the in-game police only deliver punishment (not protection) and even then their jurisdiction is limited to space as they have no business dealing with what happens on the planets. If you are use to dealing with scum bags in others, then of course Eve Online won't seem as bad. But if you're use to having your hand held for you by the game developers, then you are in for the ride of your life. Let's also not forget the meta-gaming aspect of Eve. Other game developers design their games to prevent or mitigate meta-gaming. But CCP seems to be one of the few developers embracing it instead. In fact, the economy itself has been so unique and successful that the developers of Guild Wars 2 have not only copied its market design but also publicly admitted that their idea of the market system is based on what they learned from Eve Online. The Eve market will soon be the same system for Dust. http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/microtransactions-guild-wars-2-economy/ Imagine, not having to fire a single shot in Dust just by simply putting up buy orders for cheap and then reselling the same thing at a marked up price as a sell order. Dust will come out in 2012, but I get the feeling that the market won't flourish until summer 2013, the typical season in which Eve Online receives the first of two new major expansions per year (the second being on winter). Imagine the implications of this having on Dust once it becomes fully emergent. Remember, it took eve about a few years after its release date back in 2003 to actually be fully emergent and thus result in the first of many major heists, scams, schemes, and ultimately the first great war. However, given that Dust will be directly linked up with Eve which has already been well established and completely emergent almost its entire lifetime in the past 9 years, one can probably expect Dust to be fully emergent in no more than one and a half years after release as skilled Eve players study the Dust system and impose their own experience on Dust for their advantage.
Ralpf Rogerson Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2012.07.25 23:06:00 - [34] - Quote I played Eve for probably a couple of years (off and on), I don't currently. But it isn't nearly as bad as some people make it sound, you just need to keep your eyes open at all times. Keep a cynical eye on any sort of business transaction (even the market making sure there isn't an extra 0 there). And war is what you would expect when you can actually take territory from your opponents, instead of it just being a device to allow free combat. When it comes to inter-corporation spying, well that's a different problem, the more people you have the harder it is to know them all individually, and the easier it is to get a mole in. I'm not one to play dirty, it's just not the way I am, but being able to if I were to choose is a good thing in my book. Combat in most MMO's is meaningless, it is just a means to an end (the next level, or new equipment), the crafting systems in a lot of them you can say then same. But crafting and combat are more meaningful (in my eyes anyway, and I would imagine most Eve players would agree) when if you lose you have to replace what is lost. Eve is different, but don't get discouraged by what you read, you may like it.
Dead's Lackey Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 43	Posted - 2012.07.25 23:51:00 - [35] - Quote Ancaris Tenarre wrote: Dear EVE players, I'm a newcomer to the DUST/EVE universe and up until today knew next to nothing about how **** goes down in New Eden. Well, I finally decided to do some research, and holy balls, I've only just started to scratch the surface and already I'm alarmed by the amount of piracy, scamming, and general ass-hattery that seems to go on in it. So basically, I have a two-part question: 1) Is EVE really as ruthless and unforgiving as it seems? 2) If so, what does this mean for DUST? Has CCP mentioned trying to tone down some of those aspects to give less psychotic players a chance? EDIT: Just for the record, I'm all for ruthless and unforgiving as long as it's actually used to achieve something. Cruelty for the sake of cruelty is what I'm really concerned about. To answer your questions: 1. Yes, it is truly an unforgiving game. I played for a year, kept my cards close to the vest, and kept from being scammed or taken advantage of. However a week or so ago I let my guard down, put out a recruitment cry, and ended up being scammed out of a 2 billion isk Loki, as well as a secondary fitting for the Loki specifically for ratting. However it is how you deal with it that makes it "ruthless and unforgiving." If you send out EVE mails complaining and ranting, all that you will get is ridicule for wanting your crap back. If you go about your business, suck it up and take the hit, you will find yourself flush in no time. Here is another example: About three-four months into my EVE career, I was moving from Caldari Space to Amarr Space to help a friend get his corp up and running. Being relatively new to the game, I packed all out my assets in a Mammoth, and set out. While my path took me through high security space, there were several 0.5 systems along the way. Having not left Caldari Space in the four months I played, I did not know that several of the systems along my route were popular suicide ganker locations. So long story short, I was ganked. Now I had busted ass in my first four months, and when I was ganked, it was to the tune of around 8 billion isk. That is enough to cause most to commit hari-kari, but I found a new way to make isk (more profitable than Level 4 missions.) And within a week I had made that back (incursions of course), and had a wide range of assets I had never even thought about having. But I never had to deal with the "tear-collecting" of the ganker, because I didn't feed into it. And now I live in null-sec, happy as hell, having fun with my CFC bros. So in less than a year I went from newb in high-sec, to one of the so-called "baddies" of the EVE Universe. 2. I can only hope that the DUST Universe has the same level of back-stabbing, metagaming, and general sociopathic elements of the EVE Universe. Quite honestly I do not think DUST could be a part of EVE without these elements. A lot of the FPS community here on the DUST forums cannot grasp the "adapt or die" mentality of the EVE community, and as it's still in beta, that is totally understandable. But when DUST goes live, there will be friendly-fire, general standing on the fringe of a possible exploit, without fully exploiting the game, etc. There will be 0.01 isk buy orders. Quite frankly, despite the the views of others in this thread, I believe we will see emergent gameplay within the first month of DUST being live, as alliance leaders such as The Mittani, Montrolio, etc. are very good at providing the community with emergent gameplay. Take Burn Jita and Hulkageddon as examples of the popularity of these emergent events. Both pulled in thousands of ship losses, and generally made EVE a more enjoyable experience and made New Eden a more interesting place to live. So my best advice is this: Do not give those sociopathic elements what they want, which is your tears. If you are bested in some way, take it in stride, and go about your business. Because while you may be new to the New Eden universe, there will always be someone newer than you to take advantage of .
Ancaris Tenarre Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 15	Posted - 2012.07.26 01:45:00 - [36] - Quote Hey guys, OP here. So after hearing what you guys have to say and learning a little more about EVE I'm kind of on the fence. It's difficult to make a judgement because the more I look at the "underhanded" player tactics, from the small-time scams and ganking to the big "scandals" that have rocked the EVE world, the more I realize most of them could be classified as either game enriching OR game destroying, based on context that simply can't be imparted to an outside observer and of course, personal preference. Like I've said, I'm not at all against being ruthless and taking every opportunity to get ahead, but only if it serves a greater purpose and enriches both the world lore and game mechanics/strategy. It's only when these tactics become the game itself; when the goal is nothing more than to "make n00bs cry" that it loses interest for me. Personally I've never derived any pleasure from making other people suffer, but whatever floats your boat. I'm just disappointed that this game may not turn out to be what I thought it was. But hey, whatever, that's on me for not doing the research. Time will tell if it ends up being engaging or not.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.07.26 03:06:00 - [37] - Quote Stabber McShank wrote: Examples of how ruthless Eve really is (the below are all legitimate gameplay activities endorsed by CCP): 1 - Join an industrial Corp with the sole intention of ganking every single one of their mining ships and then daring them to undock so you can kill them again. <---- Guilty of said crime 2 - Join a random Corp and play nice until you gain access to the corp wallet/assets, steal everything they own, start a share vote to kick out the CEO, then ransom the Corp itself back to the original owners (actually returning the Corp is optional). <---- Has alliance mates that do this all the time 3 - Set up fake courier contracts and gank whoever tries to actually do the delivery thereby costing the courier the collateral money + the cost of his ship and implants. <---- Guilty of said crime 4 - Convince an Alliance-level Director to defect after stealing everything not nailed down, kicking every single member of the alliance (thousands of players), and then disbanding the alliance so all territory is instantly lost. <----- I laughed my ass off when we did this to BoB and laughed just as hard when Karttoon did the same to us. 5 - Create fake contracts, scam contracts, fake investment schemes, and fake trades with the sole purpose of lying, cheating, and stealing anything possible from fellow players. <---- Guilty of said crime 6 - Blowing up EVERY ship that dares to undock from an enemy station after destroying the cloning and ship services so that anyone who dies loses skill points on every death and can't even fit a ship for combat with the sole purpose of making them not to want to log into Eve. <---- Guilty of purging the unclean from the RIT triangle DOING IT RIGHT CFC FTFW
Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 360	Posted - 2012.07.26 04:49:00 - [38] - Quote Kill everyone, then take their stuff. Suffer not the Fool Trust is your enemies weakness Kill first, Diplomacy eventually Everyone is a target, until your CEO tells you they aren't. When Stealing everything, take the money first, they the stuff that isn't bolted down, then if you still have time break out the bolt cutters. Everyone is a spy. there is no other classification New Eden was made to troll it's players. These are all sayings from EVE, they apply to Dust514 as well. Welcome to New Eden
Stabber McShank Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2012.07.26 12:46:00 - [39] - Quote You also forgot: We have always been at war with Eurasia.
Darius Ashran BetaMax. 23	Posted - 2012.07.26 13:11:00 - [40] - Quote Stabber McShank wrote: Examples of how ruthless Eve really is (the below are all legitimate gameplay activities endorsed by CCP): 1 - Join an industrial Corp with the sole intention of ganking every single one of their mining ships and then daring them to undock so you can kill them again. <---- Guilty of said crime 2 - Join a random Corp and play nice until you gain access to the corp wallet/assets, steal everything they own, start a share vote to kick out the CEO, then ransom the Corp itself back to the original owners (actually returning the Corp is optional). <---- Has alliance mates that do this all the time 3 - Set up fake courier contracts and gank whoever tries to actually do the delivery thereby costing the courier the collateral money + the cost of his ship and implants. <---- Guilty of said crime 4 - Convince an Alliance-level Director to defect after stealing everything not nailed down, kicking every single member of the alliance (thousands of players), and then disbanding the alliance so all territory is instantly lost. <----- I laughed my ass off when we did this to BoB and laughed just as hard when Karttoon did the same to us. 5 - Create fake contracts, scam contracts, fake investment schemes, and fake trades with the sole purpose of lying, cheating, and stealing anything possible from fellow players. <---- Guilty of said crime 6 - Blowing up EVERY ship that dares to undock from an enemy station after destroying the cloning and ship services so that anyone who dies loses skill points on every death and can't even fit a ship for combat with the sole purpose of making them not to want to log into Eve. <---- Guilty of purging the unclean from the RIT triangle The above is an example of why so many eve players hate the prick bastards that inhabit goonswarm. Little Sadists who find pleasure in doing thing to other that sometimes verge on outright being cruel. Dont get me wrong i like a bit of pvp greifing now and again comes with the territory even. but these guys just really take it to far way to often . I have never personally had issue with goon swarm because if you really pay attention you can avoid there pathetic attempts at trollery and scamming but alas far to many people to indeed do fall victim to them. I do dearly hope we do something to in some way harm them with dust. Not getting my hopes up though =/.

Stabber McShank Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2012.07.26 18:14:00 - [41] - Quote Darius Ashran wrote: [ I have never personally had issue with goon swarm because if you really pay attention you can avoid there pathetic attempts at trollery and scamming but alas far to many people to indeed do fall victim to them. I do dearly hope we do something to in some way harm them with dust. Not getting my hopes up though =/. Yup, it is so easy to avoid our scamming and trolling as shown in the Jabber broadcast I saw this morning. For those wondering just how harsh Eve can be (and how much douche-baggery CCP allows in their games), read below: (5:07:17 PM) [email protected]/directorbot: For those who weren't on today's whaling op, you should take a look at this corp history: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/corp/The_Dark_Tribe/alliances The Dark Tribe are the AAA corp who supply subsidised Tengus and Lokis to their alliance. They were therefore very rich indeed. A GIA agent, Mr W33ds, helped by his able assistant Leykab, both of Bat Country, infiltrated them, worked his way to the top over a period of months, was made full director and was then left in charge this week. W33ds (who is like Arghy but less lucid, but turns out to be an amazing social engineer) and Leykab stole what looks close to 100 billion ISK of corp wallet, ships, modules, t3 components, titan components and more. They emptied wormhole POSes of capitals. W33ds was given a super. They invited a slew of awoxing alts and Dabigredboat led them around through AAA space killing something north of 100 ships. The Dark Tribe have been booted from AAA, and since they allowed a known Goon scammer to take control they might have some explaining to do. A fuller post will come later with screenshots of proceeds and more, but the message is: come in Agents 33ds and Leykab, mission accomplished. To Test, this is another gift to help you in your new foreverwar. Now, the GIA needs new agents to win a titan's worth of prizes. * This was a broadcast from Endie to all-all, replies are not monitored *
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.07.26 18:24:00 - [42] - Quote I am a new eden citizen myself, All I can say What doesnt kill you makes you stronger and learn from other peoples mistakes you wont survive long enough to make them all yourself.


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