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Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.07.19 00:41:00 - [1] - Quote Disclaimer: Made this in my Dust withdrawal induced anger while reading nonsense whining on the forums... ahem... The quality of gamers has decreased over the years.....its sad. i remember back in the day when everyone was exploding with happiness when 3d games came out and people were astounded by the leaps and bounds developers were showing in game design when games tried to do something new. nowadays, we cant go a day without someone complaining that a game which is trying to stir up the waters is not a carbon copy of a now money-grabbing, no innovation series like COD. For some reason, people feel the need to complain about a game still in testing phases, posting videos while dodging an NDA, telling prospective players the game sucks.... How dare you undermine CCP's efforts by negatively promoting, under NDA, a game that is not finished. This game is in a CLOSED Beta....you were INVITED to TEST this game in order to help CCP further the creation of their own ideas and aspirations for this game....not yours, not some EVE/COD/MAG/BF3 player's, not mine.....if you can't handle objectively testing a game while giving constructive feedback, then why did you ask to join the beta? You rage quit and don't want to help? Fine. We will see you when the game launches. CCP owes nothing to anyone, also a thought for those who complain about being gipped by the merc pack...
Bresker Veyne Algintal Core Gallente Federation 152	Posted - 2012.07.19 00:42:00 - [2] - Quote Amen
xprotoman23 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1452	Posted - 2012.07.19 00:43:00 - [3] - Quote cliffnotes: LMP (Like My Post)
W0olley Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 242	Posted - 2012.07.19 00:45:00 - [4] - Quote This is all I could think of while trying to read the OP. Get over yourself dude, nobody cares.
Armatsu Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 33	Posted - 2012.07.19 00:46:00 - [5] - Quote how do we lock the topic and make it so everyone that joins the forums has to read this post?
xprotoman23 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1452	Posted - 2012.07.19 00:48:00 - [6] - Quote W0olley wrote: This is all I could think of while trying to read the OP. Get over yourself dude, nobody cares. Haha
Umallon Macross Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 281	Posted - 2012.07.19 00:48:00 - [7] - Quote This is the stupidest thread I've seen so far. Complaining about people complaining about a beta on the forums for the beta BUT CLOSED NDA. That **** ain't closed in HERE bro.
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 781	Posted - 2012.07.19 00:50:00 - [8] - Quote thread about whining. great
xprotoman23 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1452	Posted - 2012.07.19 00:52:00 - [9] - Quote PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE wrote: thread about whining. great Where's Crynage???
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.07.19 00:55:00 - [10] - Quote That simpsons pic was funny as hell Umallon Macross wrote: This is the stupidest thread I've seen so far. Complaining about people complaining about a beta on the forums for the beta BUT CLOSED NDA. That **** ain't closed in HERE bro. There have been numerous cases of people posting vids on youtube, talking negatively on other public forums, etc. As far as what's going on in these forums, it doesn't matter that we can freely discuss the game in here. It doesn't change the fact that much of what we see is just complaining and negative feedback that isn't even in the feedback section...

Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.07.19 00:56:00 - [11] - Quote PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE wrote: thread about whining. great hey, you saw the disclaimer.......withdrawals son
Velvet Overkill 104	Posted - 2012.07.19 01:04:00 - [12] - Quote Cannot reephasize this enough: Enable voice chat under System Operations -> Options so you can here others.
Nexus Cavor KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 88	Posted - 2012.07.19 01:05:00 - [13] - Quote Lurchasaurus wrote: Disclaimer: Made this in my Dust withdrawal induced anger while reading nonsense whining on the forums... ahem... The quality of gamers has decreased over the years.....its sad. i remember back in the day when everyone was exploding with happiness when 3d games came out and people were astounded by the leaps and bounds developers were showing in game design when games tried to do something new. nowadays, we cant go a day without someone complaining that a game which is trying to stir up the waters is not a carbon copy of a now money-grabbing, no innovation series like COD. For some reason, people feel the need to complain about a game still in testing phases, posting videos while dodging an NDA, telling prospective players the game sucks.... How dare you undermine CCP's efforts by negatively promoting, under NDA, a game that is not finished. This game is in a CLOSED Beta....you were INVITED to TEST this game in order to help CCP further the creation of their own ideas and aspirations for this game....not yours, not some EVE/COD/MAG/BF3 player's, not mine.....if you can't handle objectively testing a game while giving constructive feedback, then why did you ask to join the beta? You rage quit and don't want to help? Fine. We will see you when the game launches. CCP owes nothing to anyone, also a thought for those who complain about being gipped by the merc pack... I thought I got invited to challenge tanks like yours and turn an awesome battlefield into an EPIC battlefield? CCP does owe me something though. They made two games more addicting than any known substance to mankind. I feel like they should at least pay for my therapy... Which consists of playing said two games...
deathx assassin 0	Posted - 2012.07.19 01:05:00 - [14] - Quote Amen to that Lurchasaurus. It is awesome to be invited to play a game in the closed beta phase. You get to play the game before it comes out. You get to give feedback to the developers to make the game better and to point out bugs, so they can fix them to be sure the game runs great. I like to sometimes sign up to play games in the closed beta, it gives me the chance to try the game out and see what I would need to do when the game is released to the public. It would be good to play the game all week, but thursday, friday, saturday, and sunday are good. So far my standards for the games, is that as long as it has a good story line, a good multiplayer, the game is constantly getting updated and maintained. Or even if the game is only online multiplayer, like this one or mag, as long as its a good multiplayer game, and gets updated and maintained, that's good enough for me. I am playing GRFS and the multiplayer is good, but the game has some lagging and I getting kicked off the server sometimes, which is not good. I might end up trading it in. I know assassin's creed revelation multiplayer and story line is good, its just right now the internet signal for my internet to play the game is low, so I can not play it right now, but other games like dust 514 and GRFS have good internet signal for me, its just for GRFS, its the servers that are messed up. I bought the merc pack and I think its was a good thing I did that. I like dust 514, its a good game and I look forward to its release and playing it for a long time. Also these standards that I typed in this reply are for games that are in open beta and for games that are officially released to the public.
Rorek IronBlood ZionTCD Legacy Rising 746	Posted - 2012.07.19 01:10:00 - [15] - Quote Wait a minute!... I need my monacle.
Kira Lannister Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 711	Posted - 2012.07.19 01:13:00 - [16] - Quote I remember we were satisfied with Golden Eye 64. We were so excited with the four player option. The chance to share that crowded split-screen. Your friends running around with the ultimate over powered weapon: the golden gun. We have lost touch with all of that. We evolved, but in reality....was it for the better.
Aijul ZionTCD Legacy Rising 55	Posted - 2012.07.19 01:29:00 - [17] - Quote I agree to an extent, but our standards have evolved with the games. I try to provide constructive criticism to the game to make it better, not needlessly trash it to vent my frustration. I understand the point of a beta such as this is to gauge player reactions, and as a result modify the technical aspects or mechanics to improve upon it, but I just felt utterly disappointed when I first played to then find out they were planning to release in August. To be honest when I first tried the game, I felt like uninstalling immediately. It just seemed to be in the state of pre-alpha, let alone beta compared to other titles I have tested in either closed or public events. I came across: -Unresponsive menus and controls -Graphics which are not on par to a PS3 title made in 2006 (in addition to graphical errors) -Being unable to play without dying 10 seconds after spawning -Generic gunplay and style -Over half of the key features missing or partially implemented -An overall lack of proper guidance for new players unfamiliar with DUST or EVE Then I spent about an hour talking to some players who helped me get acquainted with the interface and what the game had to offer. Given the feedback here and information viewed through key conferences, I joined the forum to track the great ideas the developers and members had for the game. As I said before, it has potential, but I'm not going to lie and say that nothing has to be done in order for that potential to be reached.
Umallon Macross Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 281	Posted - 2012.07.19 01:33:00 - [18] - Quote Lurchasaurus wrote: That simpsons pic was funny as hell Umallon Macross wrote: This is the stupidest thread I've seen so far. Complaining about people complaining about a beta on the forums for the beta BUT CLOSED NDA. That **** ain't closed in HERE bro. There have been numerous cases of people posting vids on youtube, talking negatively on other public forums, etc. As far as what's going on in these forums, it doesn't matter that we can freely discuss the game in here. It doesn't change the fact that much of what we see is just complaining and negative feedback that isn't even in the feedback section... "Disclaimer: Made this in my Dust withdrawal induced anger while reading nonsense whining on the forums..." Your establishing sentence indicated that you were talking about THESE FORUMS. You said NOTHING to imply you were talking about anything else. I don't know what kind of favors you think you're going to get from brown nosing, but its pretty funny I must say. Beta is beta and beta forums are FOR complaining. That's the POINT. It isn't a lovely chummy place were you can discuss your poodles over a cup of tea, its a place for those invited to the beta to state their comments, requests, and concerns. If people are stupid enough to decide that Dust is crap based on videos and comments based on a closed beta, then that's their problem. Whining about it here on the forums isn't going to accomplish anything. Sorry you wasted your time.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.19 01:57:00 - [19] - Quote Umallon Macross wrote: "Disclaimer: Made this in my Dust withdrawal induced anger while reading nonsense whining on the forums..." Your establishing sentence indicated that you were talking about THESE FORUMS. You said NOTHING to imply you were talking about anything else. You've heard of "talking about other parts of the internet on a forum" right? You know it's not a myth, right? You know there have been quite a lot of "someone breaking NDA on YouTube/wherever" threads IN THESE FORUMS, right? People are talking ABOUT the NDA breaches on here. So yes, reading these forums DOES give you reason to be angry at people talking outside of them. Just saying.
Antilles Maximus ZionTCD Legacy Rising 80	Posted - 2012.07.19 02:10:00 - [20] - Quote I especially like the fact that there is nothing better (game related) to talk about... The forum topics have changed drastically in the past couple of weeks, from game relevant discussions to whinners and trolling. CCP must be doing something right with DUST development if the "beta testers" have no "beta" topics to post...

Umallon Macross Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 281	Posted - 2012.07.19 02:11:00 - [21] - Quote Why? Why do you care? Are you jelly because you can't post your sick videos on youtube? Are you part of CCP's legal department? Are you constantly bombarded by junkmail offering to make your Dust e-peen larger if you read some comments on another forum that break the NDA? Of ALL the things to complain about, you complain about something that doesn't affect you in any way, and that takes valuable space on the forum away from REAL topics? The only thing I'm 'angry' about on this forum is all the garbage threads like this one that take away from ACTUAL DISCUSSIONS OF THE GAME.
SoCal Ninja 260	Posted - 2012.07.19 02:32:00 - [22] - Quote I am absolutely blown away by the negative responses to this thread. The OP is correct and has a right to be angry, those of you who are trash talking him should seriously re-evaluate your views on what playing a beta is. Yes, the game can be broken, it can be missing things you want, but breaching NDA, or trash talking the game not only is illegal, but also is a slap to the face of wonderful guys who work very hard to create a game that makes you happy. As I have been in several creative projects, it really hurts when your audience disrespects your product after you worked so hard on it. Please rethink your responses to this forum and try to be more positive. It's okay to dislike something, but you don't have to spit in someone's face.
Umallon Macross Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 281	Posted - 2012.07.19 02:37:00 - [23] - Quote The thread is pointless. If people are going to ignore the agreement they've 'signed' then they are CERTAINLY going to ignore some random guy whining about them.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.07.19 03:19:00 - [24] - Quote well, im sorry some of you feel opposed to what i have said...thats your right, however disappointing it is. Just think for a moment the type of people you are defending here. As far as forums being for complaining...your are sorely mistaken. Thats why the groups in the forums are labeled "General Discussion" (where some complaining can go) and "Feedback/Requests." Go spend time and resources on making a groundbreaking game, kindly let some gamers in to test the unfinished mechanics for constructive input, and then endure some of them leaving, putting slanderous videos on youtube against an NDA, and then telling other people who ahve yet to play your game that it isnt worth their time. as far as people not caring about this post, thats just a part of talking on a forum. not everyone is gonna agree or care, but there will be trust and respect in the circles of gamers that matter and who "get it." these are the people im talking to while im waiting another 8 hours and 11 minutes...
Umallon Macross Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 281	Posted - 2012.07.19 04:19:00 - [25] - Quote Lurchasaurus wrote: well, im sorry some of you feel opposed to what i have said...thats your right, however disappointing it is. Just think for a moment the type of people you are defending here. As far as forums being for complaining...your are sorely mistaken. Thats why the groups in the forums are labeled "General Discussion" (where some complaining can go) and "Feedback/Requests." Go spend time and resources on making a groundbreaking game, kindly let some gamers in to test the unfinished mechanics for constructive input, and then endure some of them leaving, putting slanderous videos on youtube against an NDA, and then telling other people who ahve yet to play your game that it isnt worth their time. as far as people not caring about this post, thats just a part of talking on a forum. not everyone is gonna agree or care, but there will be trust and respect in the circles of gamers that matter and who "get it." these are the people im talking to while im waiting another 8 hours and 11 minutes... I'm opposed to it only in that it serves no purpose. I'm not defending anyone. Every issue every person has with this game is a complaint. Think the sagaris is OP? Thats a complaint. Think something needs to be buffed? Complaint. GUI problems? Complaint. Graphics? Complaint. Anything that does not meet the users expectations and desires is a complaint. These are also far more valid than your complaint which is effectively "some people do things that they said they wouldn't do". This observation is pointless, and making a thread about it even more so, especially considering there are 2 dev stickies on the subject. If you are going to make something to release in the public domain and can't deal with negative criticism then you should GTFO. If you can't deal with people breaking NDAs then you shouldn't release a beta. There is NO KINDNESS in them LETTING us play the beta. Companies have betas for TESTING. WE are doing a service to THEM by testing their product FOR FREE (or in some cases PAYING THEM for it). We are performing a service for them, with the dubious compensation of playing an unfinished game earlier than other people. Explain to me how you think this thread actually does anything useful, because I'm pretty sure that CCP with SONY backing them don't need you to valiant come to their defense against those evil NDA breaking wrongdoers.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.07.19 04:36:00 - [26] - Quote Well, there certainly is a difference between complaining/whining and constructive feedback. I'm sure you'll agree with that. In addition, I'm sure you will agree that much of the feedback/issues you were referring to become just another whine complaint when they are in the general discussion grouping of the forum and not in the feedback/requests group. This thread is not pointless. It is a discussion meant to be open to all the beta testers, hence the name of the thread and the placement of the thread in the general discussion section. You saying its pointless because i am not giving any feedback is flawed and irrelevant since the point of this thread is not to give feedback to the devs, or else i would have typed something completely different and in a different part of the forum. I feel as if your entire perspective on the beta testing situation is flawed/skewed. You defend people who brake the NDA, when they are the ones who are illegally acting...doesn't make much sense. Companies shouldn't have to worry about idiots going against their agreed- to terms. Does it happen? Absolutely. Is it too bad that it does? Absolutely. In a perfect world it wouldn't. In this world, it still shouldn't. You are doing a service to them? Get over yourself. Yes, you are doing it for free. That was your choice at some point as it certainly wasn't easy to get a beta key or else you willingly spent money on a merc pack. No one twisted you arm here. As far as kindness from the devs in letting me beta test is concerned, i actually am very grateful for this chance and i absolutely feel that was a service done to me. This is probably the only thing in our debate here that is actually legitimately up to the discretion of the tester and honestly, if you dont feel grateful that CCP is letting you play before release than that seems a little ungrateful to me.
PDIGGY22 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 189	Posted - 2012.07.19 04:40:00 - [27] - Quote Lurchasaurus wrote: Disclaimer: Made this in my Dust withdrawal induced anger while reading nonsense whining on the forums... ahem... The quality of gamers has decreased over the years.....its sad. i remember back in the day when everyone was exploding with happiness when 3d games came out and people were astounded by the leaps and bounds developers were showing in game design when games tried to do something new. nowadays, we cant go a day without someone complaining that a game which is trying to stir up the waters is not a carbon copy of a now money-grabbing, no innovation series like COD. For some reason, people feel the need to complain about a game still in testing phases, posting videos while dodging an NDA, telling prospective players the game sucks.... How dare you undermine CCP's efforts by negatively promoting, under NDA, a game that is not finished. This game is in a CLOSED Beta....you were INVITED to TEST this game in order to help CCP further the creation of their own ideas and aspirations for this game....not yours, not some EVE/COD/MAG/BF3 player's, not mine.....if you can't handle objectively testing a game while giving constructive feedback, then why did you ask to join the beta? You rage quit and don't want to help? Fine. We will see you when the game launches. CCP owes nothing to anyone, also a thought for those who complain about being gipped by the merc pack... LOL this is not a "closed beta" anyone can buy their way into the beta = not closed.
Nexus Cavor KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 88	Posted - 2012.07.19 04:42:00 - [28] - Quote I am going to see a psychiatrist in the morning so I can get help on how to better prepare for the next server downtime. CCP... My lawyers will be footing you the bill...
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.07.19 04:43:00 - [29] - Quote PDIGGY22 wrote: Lurchasaurus wrote: Disclaimer: Made this in my Dust withdrawal induced anger while reading nonsense whining on the forums... ahem... The quality of gamers has decreased over the years.....its sad. i remember back in the day when everyone was exploding with happiness when 3d games came out and people were astounded by the leaps and bounds developers were showing in game design when games tried to do something new. nowadays, we cant go a day without someone complaining that a game which is trying to stir up the waters is not a carbon copy of a now money-grabbing, no innovation series like COD. For some reason, people feel the need to complain about a game still in testing phases, posting videos while dodging an NDA, telling prospective players the game sucks.... How dare you undermine CCP's efforts by negatively promoting, under NDA, a game that is not finished. This game is in a CLOSED Beta....you were INVITED to TEST this game in order to help CCP further the creation of their own ideas and aspirations for this game....not yours, not some EVE/COD/MAG/BF3 player's, not mine.....if you can't handle objectively testing a game while giving constructive feedback, then why did you ask to join the beta? You rage quit and don't want to help? Fine. We will see you when the game launches. CCP owes nothing to anyone, also a thought for those who complain about being gipped by the merc pack... LOL this is not a "closed beta" anyone can buy their way into the beta = not closed. valid point, although debatable. even if its an open beta, that does not change the fact that the game is still unfinished and not ready for public criticism.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.07.19 04:44:00 - [30] - Quote Nexus Cavor wrote: I am going to see a psychiatrist in the morning so I can get help on how to better prepare for the next server downtime. CCP... My lawyers will be footing you the bill... lol good ****

PDIGGY22 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 189	Posted - 2012.07.19 04:44:00 - [31] - Quote Lurchasaurus wrote: PDIGGY22 wrote: Lurchasaurus wrote: Disclaimer: Made this in my Dust withdrawal induced anger while reading nonsense whining on the forums... ahem... The quality of gamers has decreased over the years.....its sad. i remember back in the day when everyone was exploding with happiness when 3d games came out and people were astounded by the leaps and bounds developers were showing in game design when games tried to do something new. nowadays, we cant go a day without someone complaining that a game which is trying to stir up the waters is not a carbon copy of a now money-grabbing, no innovation series like COD. For some reason, people feel the need to complain about a game still in testing phases, posting videos while dodging an NDA, telling prospective players the game sucks.... How dare you undermine CCP's efforts by negatively promoting, under NDA, a game that is not finished. This game is in a CLOSED Beta....you were INVITED to TEST this game in order to help CCP further the creation of their own ideas and aspirations for this game....not yours, not some EVE/COD/MAG/BF3 player's, not mine.....if you can't handle objectively testing a game while giving constructive feedback, then why did you ask to join the beta? You rage quit and don't want to help? Fine. We will see you when the game launches. CCP owes nothing to anyone, also a thought for those who complain about being gipped by the merc pack... LOL this is not a "closed beta" anyone can buy their way into the beta = not closed. valid point, although debatable. even if its an open beta, that does not change the fact that the game is still unfinished and not ready for public criticism. then why make it so anyone can buy in? doesnt make sense, looks like a desperate money grab to help fund the project...
thereal herbzula Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 62	Posted - 2012.07.19 04:51:00 - [32] - Quote I just want the servers to be online so i can play damnit. You all can cry, i just want to play the game!!
Umallon Macross Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 281	Posted - 2012.07.19 05:01:00 - [33] - Quote Lurchasaurus wrote: Well, there certainly is a difference between complaining/whining and constructive feedback. I'm sure you'll agree with that. In addition, I'm sure you will agree that much of the feedback/issues you were referring to become just another whine complaint when they are in the general discussion grouping of the forum and not in the feedback/requests group. This thread is not pointless. It is a discussion meant to be open to all the beta testers, hence the name of the thread and the placement of the thread in the general discussion section. You saying its pointless because i am not giving any feedback is flawed and irrelevant since the point of this thread is not to give feedback to the devs, or else i would have typed something completely different and in a different part of the forum. I feel as if your entire perspective on the beta testing situation is flawed/skewed. You defend people who brake the NDA, when they are the ones who are illegally acting...doesn't make much sense. Companies shouldn't have to worry about idiots going against their agreed- to terms. Does it happen? Absolutely. Is it too bad that it does? Absolutely. In a perfect world it wouldn't. In this world, it still shouldn't. You are doing a service to them? Get over yourself. Yes, you are doing it for free. That was your choice at some point as it certainly wasn't easy to get a beta key or else you willingly spent money on a merc pack. No one twisted you arm here. As far as kindness from the devs in letting me beta test is concerned, i actually am very grateful for this chance and i absolutely feel that was a service done to me. This is probably the only thing in our debate here that is actually legitimately up to the discretion of the tester and honestly, if you dont feel grateful that CCP is letting you play before release than that seems a little ungrateful to me. No, I don't agree. Coming from a retail background, I know that ALL criticism is valuable whether its 'constructive' or not. I've had enough "we only accept 'constructive' criticism" from Bioware and EA. Negative feedback can be more valuable then happy friendly 'you know, you're so special, but maybe you would please consider BLAH BLAH BLAH'. The forum is full of junk, and I think this thread is just another useless piece of flotsam in the ocean. I'm not saying this thread is pointless because it isn't feedback, I'm saying its pointless because it achieves nothing. I'm not defending anyone. EVEN if this thread could possibly be seen as DOING anything about breaches of the NDA then I would still be considered as assisting just by bumping it. You aren't defending CCP, and they don't need your defense, so this thread just takes up space, which is what I'M complaining about. Yes, we are performing a service for them. We are testing their product, and giving them vital feedback, both in terms of opinion and various metrics. I'm not saying I haven't entered into this unwillingly, I am saying it ISN'T A PRESENT. They aren't doing it to be nice, they are doing it because they are a business, and it saves them money. You are naive if you think they are lavishing generosity on us out of the kindness of their hearts. CCP is a BUSINESS. I am a CUSTOMER. I will not feel any more GRATEFUL to them for the beta than I would to Microsoft for 'letting' me fill in a survey, or a supermarket for 'letting' me know about their specials. I'm tired of this attitude in the gaming community that developers and publishers are some kind of mighty gods sitting in castles in the sky bestowing upon us rare gifts of their favor. No, I am not 'grateful' for the beta. I spent $230AUS on a PS3, and $30AUS on the merc pack, and I have 2 current EVE Online accounts. I will not be 'grateful' to CCP for 'letting' me work for them for free. I will however be proud that I've have helped in some small way to build an online universe I care a lot about.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.07.19 05:02:00 - [34] - Quote PDIGGY22 wrote: LOL this is not a "closed beta" anyone can buy their way into the beta = not closed. valid point, although debatable. even if its an open beta, that does not change the fact that the game is still unfinished and not ready for public criticism. [/quote] then why make it so anyone can buy in? doesnt make sense, looks like a desperate money grab to help fund the project...[/quote] The intent behind the decision to sell merc packs is up to the discretion of CCP and we cant know or criticise that unless they tell us the dirty details. But thats the way it should be. Doesnt change the fact that the game is largely unfinished and in a closed beta. Yes, the merc pack gives a key, but unless you buy one, not everyone and their dog can get a key, therefore its not an open beta. Sidenote: I think they did the merc pack thing as a favor to anyone who seriously needed to get into the beta or they would die, or to give an avenue to get some aurum or special items. I gave them my money to support the devs. Do they need the money? probably not...Am i glad they put the option up? hell yeah.
Nexus Cavor KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 88	Posted - 2012.07.19 05:08:00 - [35] - Quote Anyone else hearing voices saying "Defend all defense relays." and stuff like that? I am actually serious about the psychiatrist part. I am seeing one in the morning... The other part... Well if you want to chip in CCP by all means go ahead.
PDIGGY22 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 189	Posted - 2012.07.19 05:10:00 - [36] - Quote it's a buy-in open beta with the looks, feels and features of an alpha.
Drake Lyons Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 209	Posted - 2012.07.19 05:12:00 - [37] - Quote PDIGGY22 wrote: it's a buy-in open beta with the looks, feels and features of an alpha. See the big NDA every time you start the game? It's a closed beta.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.07.19 05:14:00 - [38] - Quote Umallon Macross wrote: Lurchasaurus wrote: Well, there certainly is a difference between complaining/whining and constructive feedback. I'm sure you'll agree with that. In addition, I'm sure you will agree that much of the feedback/issues you were referring to become just another whine complaint when they are in the general discussion grouping of the forum and not in the feedback/requests group. This thread is not pointless. It is a discussion meant to be open to all the beta testers, hence the name of the thread and the placement of the thread in the general discussion section. You saying its pointless because i am not giving any feedback is flawed and irrelevant since the point of this thread is not to give feedback to the devs, or else i would have typed something completely different and in a different part of the forum. I feel as if your entire perspective on the beta testing situation is flawed/skewed. You defend people who brake the NDA, when they are the ones who are illegally acting...doesn't make much sense. Companies shouldn't have to worry about idiots going against their agreed- to terms. Does it happen? Absolutely. Is it too bad that it does? Absolutely. In a perfect world it wouldn't. In this world, it still shouldn't. You are doing a service to them? Get over yourself. Yes, you are doing it for free. That was your choice at some point as it certainly wasn't easy to get a beta key or else you willingly spent money on a merc pack. No one twisted you arm here. As far as kindness from the devs in letting me beta test is concerned, i actually am very grateful for this chance and i absolutely feel that was a service done to me. This is probably the only thing in our debate here that is actually legitimately up to the discretion of the tester and honestly, if you dont feel grateful that CCP is letting you play before release than that seems a little ungrateful to me. No, I don't agree. Coming from a retail background, I know that ALL criticism is valuable whether its 'constructive' or not. I've had enough "we only accept 'constructive' criticism" from Bioware and EA. Negative feedback can be more valuable then happy friendly 'you know, you're so special, but maybe you would please consider BLAH BLAH BLAH'. The forum is full of junk, and I think this thread is just another useless piece of flotsam in the ocean. I'm not saying this thread is pointless because it isn't feedback, I'm saying its pointless because it achieves nothing. I'm not defending anyone. EVEN if this thread could possibly be seen as DOING anything about breaches of the NDA then I would still be considered as assisting just by bumping it. You aren't defending CCP, and they don't need your defense, so this thread just takes up space, which is what I'M complaining about. Yes, we are performing a service for them. We are testing their product, and giving them vital feedback, both in terms of opinion and various metrics. I'm not saying I haven't entered into this unwillingly, I am saying it ISN'T A PRESENT. They aren't doing it to be nice, they are doing it because they are a business, and it saves them money. You are naive if you think they are lavishing generosity on us out of the kindness of their hearts. CCP is a BUSINESS. I am a CUSTOMER. I will not feel any more GRATEFUL to them for the beta than I would to Microsoft for 'letting' me fill in a survey, or a supermarket for 'letting' me know about their specials. I'm tired of this attitude in the gaming community that developers and publishers are some kind of mighty gods sitting in castles in the sky bestowing upon us rare gifts of their favor. No, I am not 'grateful' for the beta. I spent $230AUS on a PS3, and $30AUS on the merc pack, and I have 2 current EVE Online accounts. I will not be 'grateful' to CCP for 'letting' me work for them for free. I will however be proud that I've have helped in some small way to build an online universe I care a lot about. This thread isn't for CCP. It was for the testers/you. I wanted to talk to YOU. Kinda sucks your so dedicated to telling me my intent is meaningless and pointless, since I was trying to hear what you people wanted to say... Basically, in clear english: This thread is important to me, since i wanted to talk to you. Not meaningless. Im actually enjoying the conversation. So thank you. Well, it seems that in a nutshell, our opinions are different, although id be as bold as to say im not so pessimistic. We DO however agree on the points i was seriously concerned about tho, so thats good. I prefer to think im helping CCP and that they've let me do so, out of necessity i would agree. Sure its cheaper, so what? Better for the game. Btw, important point...its a game. If its so important to you to feel like you are working by testing for CCP, than that kinda sucks but thats just how ya roll, so more power to ya. I bought the merc pack too. i want the devs to have my money, since i appreciate the magnitude of what they're trying to do here. Lots of potential in this game. About EA.....my my....I love the Battlefield series.....theyre kinda ruining it and im tired of their money grabbing games....not supporting them as long as i have Dust to fulfill my video game addiction. About negative feedback...that **** nerfs games into oblivion until they die due to lack of fun and players. This is where i give CCP a lot of credit as they have a lot of experience in listening to players and filtering out trash.
PDIGGY22 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 189	Posted - 2012.07.19 05:27:00 - [39] - Quote Drake Lyons wrote: PDIGGY22 wrote: it's a buy-in open beta with the looks, feels and features of an alpha. See the big NDA every time you start the game? It's a closed beta. you see the merc pack? it comes with a beta code for anyone who buys it, and as far as i know there is no limits on codes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta in a true beta features are locked in. Just an FYI
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.07.19 05:36:00 - [40] - Quote PDIGGY22 wrote: Drake Lyons wrote: PDIGGY22 wrote: it's a buy-in open beta with the looks, feels and features of an alpha. See the big NDA every time you start the game? It's a closed beta. you see the merc pack? it comes with a beta code for anyone who buys it, and as far as i know there is no limits on codes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta in a true beta features are locked in. Just an FYI merc packs dont give codes, it just immediately downloads the game for that psn account(or at least thats what i remember). It doesnt matter what you say about this and that, or look at this particular aspect of the game.....its a closed beta. when we fire up the game tomorrow, look on the top of the screen and i bet it'll say, guess what, closed beta...

Drake Lyons Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 209	Posted - 2012.07.19 05:47:00 - [41] - Quote PDIGGY22 wrote: Drake Lyons wrote: PDIGGY22 wrote: it's a buy-in open beta with the looks, feels and features of an alpha. See the big NDA every time you start the game? It's a closed beta. you see the merc pack? it comes with a beta code for anyone who buys it, and as far as i know there is no limits on codes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta in a true beta features are locked in. Just an FYI ...and the merc pack players still see that nice big NDA, and hit X to accept it, stating essentially that they won't say or show anything to the general public about the game. It's a closed beta. Let it go, man. And if you read that source you cited, it states that beta is generally feature complete - generally. But wikipedia goes on to state that beta release is actually defined by distribution to parties outside of the developer...and since we aren't CCP staff...this is, in fact, according to your own cited source...a beta. Again, let it go.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.07.19 05:54:00 - [42] - Quote EvE is still not feature complete, 9 years after release. CCP seems to have there own development system a little different from everyone else. They call Dust a closed beta, so by ccp's definition it is. There definition is probably based on requiring nda for closed. By that wikipedia article it would be open 1/2 beta, 1/2 pre-alpha. And EvE would be too, due to the features not being set and stuff that has been bugged for years (played 2 years with skill for defender missiles that don't work).
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.07.19 06:11:00 - [43] - Quote NDA=closed right?
Umallon Macross Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 281	Posted - 2012.07.19 07:20:00 - [44] - Quote Stupid forum ate my response... wtvr, I'm done with this thread. Just remember that CCP doesn't hear your prayers every night.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.19 08:50:00 - [45] - Quote Umallon Macross wrote: No, I don't agree. Coming from a retail background, I know that ALL criticism is valuable whether its 'constructive' or not. I've had enough "we only accept 'constructive' criticism" from Bioware and EA. Negative feedback can be more valuable then happy friendly 'you know, you're so special, but maybe you would please consider BLAH BLAH BLAH'. Constructive criticism doesn't have to be polite. "Your game is crap. Stop trying" is negative criticism. It's also not helpful at all. "Your game sucks because you did X wrong and should do Y to fix it because you're idiots and don't know what you're doing" is constructive criticism. You don't even technically need to suggest way to FIX the problems if you want your criticism to be constructive. You CERTAINLY don't need to act like the devs are beautiful marvelous people who are merely a half-step short of perfect. I sometimes wonder if EA and Bioware know that, though. And I DEFINITELY have issues figuring out how Ubisoft judge valid criticism. It's recently been seeming more and more like they accurately analyse the best and worst ideas, then act on the most horrifically terrible suggestions and throw out the good ones. EDIT: As for the definition of a beta, the features need to be COMPLETE, they don't need to be IMPLEMENTED in EVERY build of the beta. Beta testing CAN be done on only a partial build with limited features without invalidating its status as a beta.


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