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MPR11 KEQ
24
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Posted - 2012.07.06 20:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Request- A Heavy slot flare module for dropships
Use- To evade swarm launchers
As a dropship pilot I can fly around the map, and take down most anyone. but if 3 swarm launchers get a lock on I am done for. Even trying to fly away they can just fire more. My request will fix that. It will work the same as a grenade, non reload able and only 2 shots per dropship.
If anyone has any questions please ask me and hopefully CCP takes notice of this. |
Ronin Odachi
38th Joint Tactical Command
127
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Posted - 2012.07.06 20:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
This has been brought up in passing a few times, and I personally think it would work IF the cooldown is long enough and/or there is only a limited number of flares per vehicle spawn. |
Asno Masamang
Odd Shadows Inc
122
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Posted - 2012.07.06 20:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Greetings,
MPR11 KEQ wrote:Request- A Heavy slot flare module for dropships
No. As I stated in another thread, I can see giving you guys the warning when someone has locked on, but you already have the ability to evade Swarm missiles, when afterburners are added you guys will have the ability to out fly swarm missiles, and to make matters worse, you already have guns that will take out an infinite number of Swarm Launcher users. If you know how to fly your dropship you are effectively immune to HAVs and LAVs and all handheld weaponry except Swarm Launchers and Forge Guns.
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MPR11 KEQ
24
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Posted - 2012.07.06 20:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Asno Masamang wrote:Greetings, MPR11 KEQ wrote:Request- A Heavy slot flare module for dropships No. As I stated in another thread, I can see giving you guys the warning when someone has locked on, but you already have the ability to evade Swarm missiles, when afterburners are added you guys will have the ability to out fly swarm missiles, and to make matters worse, you already have guns that will take out an infinite number of Swarm Launcher users. If you know how to fly your dropship you are effectively immune to HAVs and LAVs and all handheld weaponry except Swarm Launchers and Forge Guns.
I can see where you disagree, but in order to take down said swarm launcher users I must hold my dropship steady so my gunners can hit him, or make a pass over them. Doing so will make me vulnerable to their launchers. And what if Afterburners are not enough to deal with swarm launchers? Until we see how afterburners work I think this is a good idea
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Battalia Artemis
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2012.07.06 20:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
MPR11 KEQ wrote:As a dropship pilot I can fly around the map, and take down most anyone.
As an assault infantry you will forgive me when I say this as I have been landed on, and blown to dust by random dropship rockets many... MANY times...
But you want something to help you against the remaining few that can actually do something against you? Sorry, but Dropships are pretty darn OP as is.
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Asno Masamang
Odd Shadows Inc
122
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Posted - 2012.07.06 20:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
MPR11 KEQ wrote:And what if Afterburners are not enough to deal with swarm launchers? Until we see how afterburners work I think this is a good idea
Ummm, no. You already fly just slightly slower than Swarm missiles, so unless CCP breaks a mechanic that they have used for the last 10ish years, afterburners will make you far faster than swarm missiles. But again, as it stands there are only two counters to dropships and you are asking to eliminate one of the two. Or better yet, I will trade you... I will give you the ability to decoy or jam Swarm missiles if you allow a single SMG or AR round to blow your dropship up... Afterall, unless you are using blasters a single round from one of your guns will kill one or more scouts and one or more assaults. That sounds fair to me.
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Takron Nistrom
ROGUE SPADES
83
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Posted - 2012.07.06 22:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
I forgot about the afterburners. |
zekina zek
D3LTA FORC3
Orion Empire
108
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Posted - 2012.07.08 09:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
swarm launchers are easy to avoid and counter.
see my post here if you are a drop ship pilot and need help avoiding those pesky swarms.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=25695&find=unread |
Jonquill Caronite
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
115
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Posted - 2012.07.08 10:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
I say... Release flares when you increase Swarm tracking and missile speed and give swarm launcher users unlimited locking distance and remove the clipping range. Then we have balance. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
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Posted - 2012.07.08 11:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Flares would be nice, but I really see this fitting more into the ECM role (ECM isn't implemented yet). Could simply use a ECM burst to prevent all target locks (friendly and enemy) within X rang (say a couple hundred meters)..
Keep in mind that the current timer and cooldown system is NOT how it will behave in the end, it's simply a placeholder for the implementation of capacitor use. ECM bursts tend to eat up quite a bit of cap, and ECM is chance-based. You can fit ECCM modules to help protect against it, but even without it, a given cycle is not guaranteed to keep you from locking on, just as an ECCM isn't guaranteed to let you lock on during a given cycle.
Here's an excellent thread on how ECM works in EVE, and I can definitely see it being properly adapted here in Dust:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Electronic_warfare_guide
We're talking specifically about ECM here, but the others are expected to be implemented later, as well (so you guys whinging about tank turrets turning too quick? Wait for tracking disruptors, they'll really hate you once you can fit those). |
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Kyy Seiska
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
188
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Posted - 2012.07.08 11:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Having this kind of defensive options against anti-air weapons should bring heavy penalties to the offensive capabilities of drop-ships. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
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Posted - 2012.07.08 11:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kyy Seiska wrote:Having this kind of defensive options against anti-air weapons should bring heavy penalties to the offensive capabilities of drop-ships.
Well, it usually does. We need to see just how they implement capacitor first, though. ECM is normally a midslot, so that's taking away from your shield tank, meaning you have to armour tank, which slows you down. It uses a lot of cap, as well. You'd still be able to use dumb-fire weapons against them (an advantage that EVE players DON"T have, except for smartbombs and the lol-worthy FoF missiles), and you can also fit ECCM to counteract jamming.
A fact about balance that no one seems to get in any game, let alone EVE or how Dust should be, is that balance does not mean that one thing is perfectly balanced in a vacuum. What balance in EVE and Dust means is that everything, be it a ship, armour, weapon, tactics, etc., they all have an effective counter. ECM has ECCM. Tracking disruptors have tracking computers. Webs have afterburners (or my personal favourite, t2 neutron blasters ^^), MWDs have scrams, and scrams have WCS (whose sole purpose is letting you run away, so they cut lock range in half and double the time it takes to target things, to discourage their use on combat craft).
Everything has a counter to it, and it's up to the players and their corp to figure out what those counters are, and put them into practice. That's what keeps things interesting and makes them fun. |
Kyy Seiska
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
188
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Posted - 2012.07.08 15:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Last time I checked the dropship is meant to transport units from location a to b or in this chase work as moving strategic spawn point. Not how it's currently exploited by using it to rain death upon the battlefield and squish infantry by ramming in to them. I have even heard stories about using them to kamikaze in to a tank!
So I was thinking more in the lines of replacing weapons with these flares, excluding maybe the attached heavy machinegun. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
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Posted - 2012.07.08 16:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kyy Seiska wrote:Last time I checked the dropship is meant to transport units from location a to b or in this chase work as moving strategic spawn point. Not how it's currently exploited by using it to rain death upon the battlefield and squish infantry by ramming in to them. I have even heard stories about using them to kamikaze in to a tank!
So I was thinking more in the lines of replacing weapons with these flares, excluding maybe the attached heavy machinegun.
Last time I checked, CCP said that it would also serve a role as a gunship (in other words, raining death on the battlefield). Collision damage could definitely stand to be increased to discourage squishing things, but it's supposed to have weapons, not just transport and mobile spawn. Even the Galaxy troop transport in PlanetSide had guns to defend itself, and later even had a variant built specifically to BE a gunship.
As to using these as transports, don't expect to see much of that until they implement proper teams and we can actually get people on comms. Passengers can't really see much of what's going on or what they're over, so actually using it to airdrop troops isn't currently a viable strategy.
They don't need flares, ECM can and will do the job in the end, once it actually gets implemented. Then the missile users can start fitting ECCM, and the rock-paper-scissors can begin in earnest. |
Baron Rittmeister
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
81
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Posted - 2012.07.08 23:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
No no on flares. The dropships don't need anymore ability to stay alive other than maneuvering. I've played bf3 and can tell you how disrupting flares are to the flow of the game. With flares, they'd have the ability to nullify swarms and still rain their infinite op missiles all over the place, no thanks. Learn to fly better and use the buildings for cover from the missiles, like we do from yours. |
GIZMO2606
80
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Posted - 2012.07.09 00:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
MPR.... No.... |
Argos Blackyear
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.07.09 00:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
I would like to see flares implemented on a model of transport-only dropships, but fitting them on combat ships seems to take things too far.
Perhaps with future combat scenarios, there will be a need for a large transport vessel that with defense mechanisms to avoid being shot down as troops are ferried across the battlefield. But, until then, I would suggest against the idea of flares. |
Tak Finlay
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.07.09 12:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think flares would be fine so long as when I DO blow up your dropship, all passengers die in the explosion and I am properly rewarded for my actions, instead of everyone being able to safely hop ship, float to the ground and butcher my heavy anti-vehicle setup.
Because realistically, my forge guns only purpose is to stop pilots from squishing me lol |
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