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Hellhammer Tactical
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
45
   |
Posted - 2012.07.14 08:27:00 -
[61] - Quote
as a heavy i notice very few players will actualy provide cover for their teams heavys, so snipers and AR are a constant cause of death, im guessing that the HMG is geared more towards supression/crowd control so its minute range is a big issue, other heavy issues include the movement speed, the tanks i hunt move soooo much faster that i almost have to count on them getting stuck.
heavys lack the fear factor they should have! yes they are big slow moving tanks but we just lack the power to back it up.
and all heavy weapons are terrible at range. hoping this get addressed with the advent of larger maps.
i agree that re-balancing is far better than nerfing. |
Anatoly Gasputin
Doomheim
40
|
Posted - 2012.07.14 08:32:00 -
[62] - Quote
Started playing heavy few days ago and loving it. But there are some major issues that need to be addressed and I agree with the re-balance that was suggested earlier. +1 for the heavy support  |
Brinn Lusker
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.14 09:39:00 -
[63] - Quote
I started playing two weeks ago and I have played nothing but heavy. I can't say anything about the HMG in the previous build but the HMG right now is close to unusable. Most of what I might say has already been brought up, the rediculus overheat, crap dmg and the horrible range. So I'll just say that as a heavy I feel that the only option that I have to be effective against infintry is to equip an AR and at that point why have a heavy at all. |
Cameron StarGazer
63
|
Posted - 2012.07.14 09:45:00 -
[64] - Quote
The power of the HMG definitely needs sorting, Any scout or Assault troop that gets in the way and stays in the open infront of one of them shouldn't last very long. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
248
|
Posted - 2012.07.14 14:09:00 -
[65] - Quote
I started using heavy+HMG in this build and done that quite a lot.
My biggest fear when in heavy suit is going face-to-face with an average skilled player using a breach gun, at any range longer than 10m.
I've learned to dread the breach, therefore I listen what rifle opponent is using.
If its other AR, I fight and do good.
If it's breach, I try to disengage and go to cover. Now that's something really sick and ideologically wrong, heavy avoiding 1vs1 with an lighter suit!!!
Reason is that I know with breach any semidecent player is able to put bullets into upper torso/head area while HMG is unable to do that.
About HMG, I agree what's already being written, most notably the too fast overheat rate combined with poor accuracy trying to pulse the gun.
SUGGESTION:
Curently HMG starts inaccurate but tightens up. How about changing that to other way around:
HMG starts accurate but as you spew bullets they start to go wild.
Possible consequences:
- HMG would pulsed by all users
- In tougher spot HMG user would fire longer but pay the price in inaccuracy
- HMG would gain ability to damage targets further away, but the farther target would be (example 100m), the less damage it would do as only the very first bullets would go on spot. Target a bit closer (example 60m) would get a bit more damage as those slightly deviating bullets would also hit.
- HMG would work about the same way against vehicles as they are larger targets
Comments on above suggestion, please
|
Tupni
27
|
Posted - 2012.07.14 14:28:00 -
[66] - Quote
Essentially worthless outside of an anti-vehicle capacity, more armor but bigger and slower so they're kind of hard to miss and take more damage anyway. I do about the same ratio of damage in a single clip as I would with any other enemy and I also know I can easily outrun them or even run in for a melee if I'm lucky. They're more difficult when in a group, but that's the same with any class.
Surprisingly they seem to really only be any good in a support capacity, typically as a meat shield that can shoot. Not impressed with forge guns in infantry combat, but the mass driver is OK, and only OK, but sometimes fairly useful in close quarters as an alternative to slower less controllable anti-vehicle grenades.
Suggestion:
Secondary weapon slot upgraded to light weaponry capable, add an extra slot to all heavy suits, boost shields mildly at least 50 to 100 hp, improve heavy weapons capability, integrated armor recovery of at least 1 or 2 hp, or any three of these. |
Chao Wolf
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
209
|
Posted - 2012.07.14 14:44:00 -
[67] - Quote
The more I think about it the more I believe that the best way to make heavies worthwhile again would to be giving them damage resistance not sure if that should be part of the heavy skill or if the dropsuits them selves should have it |
Hellhammer Tactical
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
45
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 17:54:00 -
[68] - Quote
playing recently i feel that the vehicles need reviewing, i have been heavy since i first started using the beta and am constantly finding that the heavy is outgunned by EVERYTHING. out manovered by EVERYTHING and out ranged by EVERYTHING.
hell all vehicle turrets have zoom optics allowing them to effectively wipe out heavys from beyond the draw distance.
is the heavy class a joke???
|
Mmkk333
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
229
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 08:46:00 -
[69] - Quote
bump because this is good info |
Jack Boost
Zarena Family
194
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 10:41:00 -
[70] - Quote
Heavies... are fine.
HMG is fine
AR is fine
SMG is fine
FG is fine
Snipers are fine
RE are broken only.
Why? Try understand your role in battle field.
Ok I play a lot as heavy.
My role is heavy assault on foot. I must be veraslite in a lot of aspects, I pay for it, and I die a lot, but I can kill too.
I must run ( how :) take point, try to def it a little.. and run to next target. I try do my best... if my team allow me to do this.
How I see battlefield?
Heavy + HMG is for defensive/clean corners. Use this role AND YOU ARE FINE!
I still die when I meet this guy.
If you want be assalut-heavy with HMG ... use LAV!. Oh my .. I love meet one guy with this. Fast and deadly
So understand what you do and all be fine.
Heavy + FG
As like a little tank ... I die :)
Heavy +AR .. come we will see ;)
Assault dropsuit + AR - this is hard to tell who win.
At last luck is there. If he catch, i'm dead. If we see each other I have chance.
Few more assaults ... I take 1,2 ... and I'm dead. For scenario when I run most time alone, I'm overnubered a lot.
Assault +shotgun/scout +shotgun - please miss me ;)
Scout + mass driver - please miss me too.
Assault/Logi/Scout/Heavy + SMG - i'm dead
More-> Scout + SMG + speed boosters..... It is angel of dead. Run as devil hit hard and I only can swing my dead hand to say good bye.
Scout + sniper riffle.... 1. shot ?...2 shot - where are you? 3.1 There .. you are dead 3.2 Still not see you... i'm dead. But I come next to you.
Tank... almost pointles for me to run into it... but I love get final blow from tanks. -> fine.. but wait I change my AV gear.
LAV... almost 100% roadkils, but I can manage get gunner -> fine
Dropships I can bite you, but you have all sky for onself. I'm dead.
So as you can see it is not easy job to fight there. But for me all is fine.
Only RE as it is now are broken, and I dont whine when someone set trap for me, but only when he drop RE in fornt of him and push one button.
So at the end.... think what role you want play .. use the best gear fitted to this role and go.
We meet for sure :)
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
401
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 10:52:00 -
[71] - Quote
I noticed that in this build the heavy was the hardest to play so thats what I went with.
HMG used it for one game and it was USELESS.
Forgegun is ok for AV but the SMG is useless at ranges farther than ten yards.
If the heavy is forced to use by default an SMG then at least give it some range better than ten yards since its pathetic being gunned down by an assault using a pistol at 15 yards where the smg is still out of range.........pathetic.!!!
|
Mmkk333
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
229
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 10:55:00 -
[72] - Quote
I am not a hardcore Heavy dropsuit player, but if Red at Math has taught me anything, it is that Heavy's are ANYTHING but under-powered, ESPECIALLY with a HMG. |
Volgair
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
200
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 14:05:00 -
[73] - Quote
I have played a Heavy for both builds. in the first build i used a heavy suit fitted with HMG, damage mod's, armor rep/s, scrambler pistol and AV grenades for 90% of the matches. using this build I averaged 20-30 kills on smaller maps, per match with few deaths. i will be the first to admit it was OP but that was what i invested in, and i did so out of it being the role i wanted to play not because day one of closed beta i knew it would be mind blowing, overpowered and over played. That combined with the fact people, for the most part only wanted to play ambush and the HMG shines in confined spaces the trend was garnishing a lot of hate for the weapon. i'm glad that trend died out, and for the last week of the first build i got a chance to run and gun at range for this i used a Forge and SMG combo.
for the second build i started with the same, as i did with the previous build. Merc Gear to start then HMG all the way. only this time the weapon scattered more on the first rounds, then it heated and jammed by the time it was accurate enough to do any thing, not that it would because a breach weapon of any flavor could out class it in damage and the turn speed of my suit against the run speed of a scout or assault meant that by the time he messed up and i got some rounds on his flank it was too little too late (the dead mans hand being taken out was also a loss in this instance.) a heavy was nothing more then K/D padding for quality scouts and assaults. assuming you didn't find your self near his RE before the engagement got a chance to start. as a low skill heavy weekend 1 of this build my K/D was about .3...
the second weekend of this build i switched my focus to the forge. vehicles were becoming a HUGE part of a winning strategy and the forge loves big targets. but to forge is to bring a liability upon yourself at close range... against infantry all together really. that is not to say i cant kill a scout from 10-700 yds with forge splash but that does not have as high a success rate as i would like. instead i opted and recommend to others that a forge gunner should be using that time to switch to the heart of the matter the SMG. After about 3 days of this Forge/ SMG combo i had superior field control. i could even out gun at close range other Heavys using an HMG against me... that was a travesty. my K/D that weekend climbed back up to a .7.
the third weekend with about 5mil SP invested between Heavy suits, Heavy weapons, Forge, HMG, SMG, mechanic, electronics, and engineering. i could fill the roll of a heavy again... granted its not the suppression fire and point defense roll i was hoping for, instead it was to harass the living sh*t out of tanks and drop ships. for this reason i was happy they gave me a faster suit too choose from, as it helped tremendously in allowing me to fill that roll more efficiently. my K/D was climbing again, in this case to around .9 however, it was at this point i was noticing a disturbing trend with folks using an AR with off hand SP/SMG on their heavy. from the people i spoke with in team comms it was a varied response from "im using the AR until i get better skills with the HMG," to "im using it while i make the transition to a scout suit with RE."
from the fourth week to the present i have used the forge as my primary roll, not primary weapon. the SMG has become my most common implement of death and defense, which in some ways has contributed to idea that all heavy's use SMG's. my K/D improved to 1.1. HMG's on the other hand even after tremendous investment, while powerful, can still be out gunned by a scout (or assault/heavy) with appropriate and equal investment of skills with the AR or SMG.
things that can be done to fix this and validate investment in a weapon to create a currently non-existing roll
A) increase the CPU and PG of heavy drop suits to allow us to fit larger shield boosters or armor plates at the expense of greater mobility loss. a buffer tank HMG heavy supported by a logistics teammate would allow for better point defense, with the substandard mobility it would keep lone wolfs from abusing the extra stay power to an unfair advantage.
A1) with the large shield extenders you could cut the rate of re-gen and/or increase the hit box on the ctr model for the validation of a logi support
A1.1) implement low slot turn speed adrenal mod to compensate for lack of high slot damage enhancements.
A1.2) increase signature so swarm can lock on heavy with these mods.
A2) with the Large armor enhancement you would need a logi to be useful because the extension of armor would take the low slots that reps would normally consume, plus even if those slots had been used by a localized rep they are woefully under powered for that kind of task... or any task really
A2.1) increase signature so swarm can lock on with these mods.
A3) ignore all of this and allow us use of a Heavy drop suit with roll bonuses that would allow us to fill this roll (honestly i would prefer this to be done with mods, or a combination of roll bonuses and mods, because it makes the suits and builds of said suits to seem more dynamic and tailored to play style)
B) 1.7 to 3 damage more per round with the HMG to compensate us for damage and reduced turning speed.
B2) more invest-able SP in reducing over heat of weapon... perhaps a pseudo unrelated skill in engineering, thermodynamic's for example. (No one should WANT to close range on a HMG Heavy EVER.)
C) More low slots on a Heavy to allow for a modification of resistance types and modules to compensate.
C1) add resistance types to suits and the mods for said suits
D) Make suits inherently damage resistant, With greater HP/Shields and sharply increase isk and SP expense to compensate. this game is about strategy and nothing says strategy like balancing act between risk and reward. |
Alldin Kan
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
169
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 15:01:00 -
[74] - Quote
My concern at this moment does not lie in the Heavy Dropsuit (always use AR). The current class that's giving me some problems is the Scout's high movement speed. Unless you're using high end ISP (I'm at 3.50Mb), the bad hit detection will make it extremely difficult to hit a Scout who tries to run around you with a Shotgun or Submachine gun, while taking advantage of the low framerate and aim sensitivity. Only real counter to this class (not much) is the Assault Dropsuit with high shield regen, along with a Submachine, Assault Rifle (high RoF) or a well placed Shotgun shot. Heavy is not recommended.
For Scouts running with maxed out melee and sprinting speed that of a train, the only counter 3 counters are use of a Vehicle, same class loadout as enemy or a short moment of long distance shooting (short moment as in he'll be next to you under 7 seconds; CQC 1v1 fail rate at 90% with low health class and 80 with Heavy... assuming that the guy finds you first). |
ReptileHand
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 18:16:00 -
[75] - Quote
Haven't read much of the thread.
But for me the Heavy machine gun is kind of annoying. I shoot so many bullets (first tier of gun / not default) and they aren't doing much to the other guy's suit before it overheats. It usually takes out a good chunk of their health but eh. I'm trying to remember now.... |
Sha Kharn Clone
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1087
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 18:56:00 -
[76] - Quote
As a scout just wana chip in here and say the heavy suit and/or the HMG need something doing to them badly.
I used to enjoy trying to kill a heavy but its just not fun anymore. |
lDocHollidayl
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
171
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 18:59:00 -
[77] - Quote
I think they have the balance of the heavy well done. I ran a heavy with a forge and smg with AV nades. I used the non charge holding forge so I did not experience the slow walking stuff as much. I could hold my own in fights at close quarters. I did have to aim for the head to last longer. The skirmish map is well done for different heights and levels on the battlefield. When I could get high ground I was quite a nuisance. If I had a nanohive support I became deadly. 75% of the time I could 2 shot players beneath me. I never had a ridiculous game like 20-1 or something. But players took notice and hunted me down. Being heavy they would catch up and return many favors. BTW I was in a lvl 4 suit. A heavy and a logistics are gonna be fun to see. When groups are up and mics a bit cleaner (they are quite glitchy) that team work will be awesome. |
lDocHollidayl
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
171
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 19:09:00 -
[78] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:I noticed that in this build the heavy was the hardest to play so thats what I went with.
HMG used it for one game and it was USELESS.
Forgegun is ok for AV but the SMG is useless at ranges farther than ten yards.
If the heavy is forced to use by default an SMG then at least give it some range better than ten yards since its pathetic being gunned down by an assault using a pistol at 15 yards where the smg is still out of range.........pathetic.!!!
I suggest getting the sharpshooter for your SMG. At lvl 4 I had no issues. For example, on the crane building at "C" I could shoot players below me. I could not match an assault but you really did not feel helpless. The breach SMG actually held ranges very well. The others could shoot but the kick made range battles unwise. |
des polo
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
22
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 19:16:00 -
[79] - Quote
I always use heavy drop suits and always end out on top as one of the top players in my team I was able to make enough money to sustain two semi proto fittings with advanced heavy drop suits and I never use assault rifles only heavy weapons I don't see why everyone has an issue with them they helped me take down a spawn camper when I spawned in at a objective. |
Unit-775
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
36
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 20:01:00 -
[80] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:
SUGGESTION:
Curently HMG starts inaccurate but tightens up. How about changing that to other way around:
HMG starts accurate but as you spew bullets they start to go wild.
Possible consequences:
- HMG would pulsed by all users
- In tougher spot HMG user would fire longer but pay the price in inaccuracy
- HMG would gain ability to damage targets further away, but the farther target would be (example 100m), the less damage it would do as only the very first bullets would go on spot. Target a bit closer (example 60m) would get a bit more damage as those slightly deviating bullets would also hit.
- HMG would work about the same way against vehicles as they are larger targets
Comments on above suggestion, please
I think this should be at least testet, and its a little more realistic the gun becomes less accurate when firing longer.
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Fatal HeD
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 21:06:00 -
[81] - Quote
Oede Usaema wrote:I'm not a heavy player, I've stuck to mainly assault since the start. That said, i very rarely see anyone using a HMG anymore, they're pretty much on the same level as a mass driver, definitely lower than a sniper rifle and absolutely nowhere near a forge gun, which every heavy should have switched to nowadays (along with an SMG for anti-dude stuff).
It's frustrating as, dispite Darky Si's OP, the HMG was never actually overpowered at all. If an assault encountered a heavy and tried to engage at medium range (or close range if they couldn't dance) they would die and that was that. This upset a lot of people, seemingly unaware that they were actually idiots.
Their idiocy however was becoming fairly obvious the further the last build progressed and we saw the endgame full prototype assaults with Creodron AR's take out heavies with ease, from long range by utilising cover w/ ADS and close range by out strafing them (now fairly obsolete). Mid-range being the HMG's only decent killzone, requiring cunning ambushes by the heavy to apply the damage before the target would just sprint away or close the gap and blow their brains out while the heavy had a seizure trying to turn around. Just how easy it was for an assault to dispatch a Heavy HMG user was only amplified by a scout.
Edit: dunno wtf happened there....
I agree for the most part except:
1. I think HMGs were a bit too accurate in the hands of a decent player in the mid and mid-long range engagements although I realize our definitions of mid-range may differ. This, However could have easily been balanced with the overheat function by SLIGHTLY increasing the overheat rate as it took quite a few spent shells for most people to get lined up on a strafing target.
2. Toward the end of that build I think the increase of proto ARs you noticed taking down Heavy users was due to the fact that by then the assault users had stuck it out and invested quite a bit of SP into their fits and were able to fairly easily dispatch the masses who had jumped ship and split SP between two classes.
and
3. The long range was a requirement when dealing with heavies as only a fairly well skilled scout could regularly risk sprinting inside a HMGs barrage and live to tell about it.
Other than that I couldn't agree more the damage and everything else was fine with the HMG. Where I thought the problem lied WAS in the Heavy suit. It was very frustrating to stand behind a type-I heavy with an advanced AR light off a clip into his back only to start my reload as he finally gets turned around then having to retreat or die as the lead stream started. However, I emphasize was because I think the changes in run/turn speed and HP on the heavy suit were well done and have balanced that out. Now if only CCP would un-fubar the HMG...
Oede Usaema wrote:
I say all this, as it's concerning to see the constant "X is overpowered", "Nerf Y" threads. People encounter a new thing, whine that it's overpowered, learn how to counter it and then CCP, being fashionably late to the party, second guesses themselves and nerfs it into the ground making it no longer viable. We're already seeing the river of tears run again with marauders, it'll be interesting to see whether we see them nerfed into the abyss as well.
Finally someone who truly understands CCP <3. Two things I have learned about CCP over the years are they love to overreact to their player-base overreacting in the form of mass whining and teary eyed posts with threats of account terminations, and in the end they do a pretty damn good job.
I have faith :) (don't let me down) |
Logisticus Testing
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 00:09:00 -
[82] - Quote
ghaahaaa, i know how everyone feels. last weekend i was in a type 1 standard suit, with a standard HMG, and i was taken out by a guy in an assault suit with a mass driver.... i overheated once, reloaded once, but he still got me.
this was between the southeast CRU and the supply depot, over by A. he kept ducking behind the hill as soon as i started to fire, i'd follow him over the hill only to get a MD grenade in the face. it took him 3 reloads (and i think a little help from his friends), but he got me. knowing how crappy the MD is, this is quite embarrassing.
granted, this was only my first or second time out with the HMG, but still, as soon as he got over that hill i should have chewed him up, but either was missing due to dispersal, or just not doing enough damage. my not knowing that the HMG got MORE accurate the longer it was fired (quite counter intuitive, IMHO), i was using burst fire or pausing while i tried to chase him down.
live (or in this case die) and learn, i suppose |
Mmkk333
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
229
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 04:28:00 -
[83] - Quote
bump again |
Hellhammer Tactical
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
45
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 06:33:00 -
[84] - Quote
i would like more varied heavy suits, there is a tech 1 (cant remember name) that sacrifices armour for mobility, can we get tech 2 and prototype varients of this suit? |
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
401
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 09:08:00 -
[85] - Quote
An AV massdriver that shoots AV magnetic grenades with ANTIvehicle damage 1200 and ANTitroop damage 1 (yes antitroop damage at ONE). |
Vickers S Grunt
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
67
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 09:56:00 -
[86] - Quote
hmg is fine just dont expect good results whith the standerd i use a proto whith 3 damage mods and it is very leathal ( just got 32-1 in ambush ).
Close range fights always go my way unless thay use RE or are exeptional dogers (i am looking at u Shar )
Overheating is not realy a problem when u are doing proper damage i can easaly kill a proto hevy whithout overheating if i am close and i only have hmg spec to level 3.
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BLENDEDDAVE WARRIORS
29
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Posted - 2012.08.13 10:28:00 -
[87] - Quote
Vickers S Grunt wrote:hmg is fine just dont expect good results whith the standerd i use a proto whith 3 damage mods and it is very leathal ( just got 32-1 in ambush ).
Close range fights always go my way unless thay use RE or are exeptional dogers (i am looking at u Shar )
Overheating is not realy a problem when u are doing proper damage i can easaly kill a proto hevy whithout overheating if i am close and i only have hmg spec to level 3.
killed you like 5 times on friday in a game of skirmish twice with a smg the rest with dropship from tower you whent 27/5 so i would have to agree with this statement |
Illuminatrix L'Etranger
22
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Posted - 2012.09.03 02:01:00 -
[88] - Quote
I have not used Proto but everything up to advanced and sometimes feel they are almost a bad joke.
Why do heavy machine guns have a dotted circle as a reticle when you will usually only do damage when zooming in and placing the tiny dot in the middle of the circle right on your target?
Unless your opponent is close. So close they can tickle your nose with their ass hairs. And even then I often get better results from a militia submachine gun I have as back up that I haven't even trained for.
I will not give up. But would be more effective sinking all my skill points into training to use another weapon and just using the heavy suit. Rather than the weapons that only a heavy can use.
guess I might as well put this in the feedback section of the forum too... |
TotalBreakage
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
410
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 10:51:00 -
[89] - Quote
i recommend Narcotics Anonymous for heavy users. |
Sven Lindblad
11
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Posted - 2012.09.03 12:44:00 -
[90] - Quote
I feel the heavy suit needs something else than just the heavy weapons too spend their Powergrid and CPU. Some kind of super PG expensive module for fitting options. |
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