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Immortiano Dranon
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
179
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Posted - 2012.07.05 02:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
Reposting this from the GD forum [1].
I feel that KDR is not a good representation of a player's contribution to the battle. And plus, kill assists don't get counted so even if you get 20 assists, you'll still have a kill count of 0. I suggest replacing the KDR with a point system in which you get points for kills and assists and hacking objectives. It would make for a much better representation of a player's role on the battlefield. You could be the MVP in your team by being the one who hacks all the objective, even though you suck at aiming. IMHO you're a much more valuable asset than the guy with the perfect KDR.
I don't mean to remove KDR altogether. What I'd like is the leaderboard to show points and only you can see your KDR and other stats, but everyone else just sees how many points you have.
I think something like this [2] would be quite awesome. Everyone sees how many points every other player has, but he can see his points broken down into every category.
Edit:
My proposed point awards:
- Kill: 1 point
- Assist: 0.5 points, when you get 2 assists you get 1 point
- Sniper headshot (if the game supports it): 2 points
- Taking an objective: 2 or 3 points
- Override an objective (e.g. stop the enemy from taking it): 3 points (it should value more since the objective continues to stay under your command)
- Reviving a teammate: 1 point
- Healing a teammate: 1/200 points, when you heal 200 points of hp, you get 1 point (please adjust accordingly)
- Vehicle damage: 0.5 points
- Vehicle destruction: 2 points (taking out vehicles is as important as taking objectives)
- Having someone spawn in your vehicle: 0.5 points
- Dropping a player over/at an enemy owned objective: 0.5 points
[1] https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=23187
[2] http://www.straferight.com/forums/attachments/shooters/14836d1209011828-official-post-your-tf2-screenshot-score-thread-tf2score.jpg |
gangsta nachos
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
377
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 02:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
where are the leaderboards? cant remember if I looked at them in game or somewhere else. I'm thinking I looked at them in game
I want to see my k/d tee hee |
Takron Nistrom
ROGUE SPADES
83
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 02:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
I agree.You can do a ton of work on the field bit come out dead last cuz you didn't shoot anyone. It leaves wanting to run logi a bit dry because you would get points but no kdr so you don't place. |
Celix Kitannen
Covenant Security Solutions
12
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Posted - 2012.07.05 03:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
+1 for this.
I usually do a lot of objective capping which means I'm running around on the outskirts of the fight the entire game. That leaves me with almost no contact with the other team, not that I want any, and when there is a fight I usually lose since I have the shotgun equipped most of the time.
By the end of the game I only have single digit numbers on my KDR. If there are double digit numbers it's usually in the Death column lol. I'm just more of an objective player than a KDR minded shooter- and if a player corp. used KDR as a basis to judge admission I'd never get in. If they used an average SP per game it would be a different story. |
Aiden Angel
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2012.07.05 04:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
100% agree. I've made some posts about this too.
For the in game score board, they need to include things like:overall points for the game, assists, and hacks. They should still keep KD but they need to add other stats and reward people for doing other things aside from killing.
I think they should include a wide variety of stats under your personal stats for your own viewing and the viewing of others. Things like:KD, assists, hacks(capture points, supply points, etc), how many revivals you've done, how much ammo or health have you supplied to people, vehicle assists, repairs etc. Including games played and W/L would be nice too.
I just think that the players who are supporting their team with ammo, health and who are going for the primary objective, deserve a lot more recognition than those who just spend the whole match killing and not doing anything else. The guy who gets a bunch of kills from a drop ship gets rewarded but the guy driving him doesn't receive any recognition(so far at least).
Kills should be tracked because they are important but they shouldn't be the only thing that people focus on.
I think having a wide variety of stats shown will also help people gain a better understanding of what kind of player a person is. This will help when it comes to corps, recruiting, etc. |
onlyelisha
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
86
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 05:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
I definitely agree with this.
I'm not much of a shooting guy.
I'm more of a support person. |
Avinash Decker
BetaMax.
25
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 10:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
I agree with this. I suggest showing points and kills . Then at the bottom show kills, deaths , vehicles destroyed, hacks , revives, assists , etc for your eyes only like in TF2 |
Finn Kempers
BetaMax.
222
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 11:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Battlefield 3 does the same with points, I have going 3:14 gone top of the leaderboard simply for PTFO'ing. |
Cong Zilla
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2012.07.05 12:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think it should show the K/D, but it should rank by points. So everyone can see that guy with a perfect K/D at the bottom of the points because he loan wolfed the whole match. |
Immortiano Dranon
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
179
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 02:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
I just got off from a match where everyone was tower camping the whole map and I was the only one running around hacking objectives. We won, yet I was between the worst players in terms of KDR. |
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Immortiano Dranon
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
179
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 01:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
bump |
Mr Funless
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
191
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 04:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Agreed |
Ender Storm
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
50
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Posted - 2012.07.08 04:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Agreed |
CommanderStitch
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 06:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
I agree with this. If you look at BF2142 they had POINTS. Same thing as TF2. they are points. getting kills does reward some points and such and i can understand why this hasn't been fully explored as it's fairly early, but it must get in the game or there will be some permanent damage to
classes that don't kill, aka support,
commanders over the battlefield,
people who primarily hack, etc.
Please add something in for diffusing a point. Just like MAG when you are "diffusing" an objective, it was worth less than capturing one. Thus people would wait till the objective was taken and then kill the guy and recapture it so they would mine more points. To counter that and keep the value of holding the objective longer the reward for diffusing it should be equal or greater to that of a capture. I'd make it greater to encourage diffusion. Something to that effect. It's just disgusting to go to all the effort to diffuse a point and get nothing. Most of the time you put yourself at risk for death...
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Argos Blackyear
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.07.08 06:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Agreed, especially since DUST is a tactical OBJECTIVE-based FPS. In fact, it should have been ranked by points from the get-go; players gain 50 points for each kill and 25 for assists.
CommanderStitch wrote:
Please add something in for diffusing a point. Just like MAG when you are "diffusing" an objective, it was worth less than capturing one. Thus people would wait till the objective was taken and then kill the guy and recapture it so they would mine more points. To counter that and keep the value of holding the objective longer the reward for diffusing it should be equal or greater to that of a capture. I'd make it greater to encourage diffusion. Something to that effect. It's just disgusting to go to all the effort to diffuse a point and get nothing. Most of the time you put yourself at risk for death...
Also like this idea. Who wants to spend twice the time to re-take an objective when it nets no points? |
Majora Unmasked
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
8
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Posted - 2012.07.08 08:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Agree with points so the way to go ccp |
Hasek Tokugawa
HavoK Core
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 14:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
+10^256 |
Kyy Seiska
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
188
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Agreed
whole KDR is messed up in this game anyways as only thing you really need to do is find a tank and join in the slaughter fest until it's too risky to stay in the tank, then it's just best to find another one and repeat the process. Wearing heavy armor helps as it increases your chances of survival. |
Boxoffire
Lost-Legion
48
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ye, should do somethin like Battlefield 3 with SPM (Scored per Minute). I am almost at 500 SPM :) I would loge to get something like that. Or maybe even game-type specific leaderboards. Ambush is mainly KDR, Skirmish is hacks, hack assists, and hack interruptions, which they should give you score for doing but they don't now, but that's another topic. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
You've got my vote on this one.
K/D shouldn't be the core focus in a game where there are objectives other than killing, or where there are good medic/repair options.
if you can heal/revive teammates and/or fix their vehicles, you shouldn't be getting penalised for focusing on that instead of K/D. At the moment, K/D is being over-represented. Not as badly as some games have done, but it's still being treated as more important than other factors. |
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V Shadow
DUST University
Ivy League
34
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Posted - 2012.07.08 17:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
was thinking about this yesterday. What they could do is have both the k/d and score?
Was wondering at the end of a battle if the guy with a 15/2 k/d had even played objectives or just sat somewhere spamming missiles.
I really think that in a game like this it is important to know more than someone k/d ratio as its not what the game is 100% about. When it comes to contracting people to take planets later on (after release probably) surly the people will want people who attack objectives over the guy with the perfect k/d who sits on the edge of battle taking out random people. |
Immortiano Dranon
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
179
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
bump |
Cmdr Firezone38
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
gangsta nachos wrote:where are the leaderboards? cant remember if I looked at them in game or somewhere else. I'm thinking I looked at them in game
I want to see my k/d tee hee
You can find that in your character sheet. |
Jak Teston
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
99
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
That the leaderboard lists kdr instead of points looks like an oversight from alpha development rather than a choice by design. Well, that's at least what I choose to believe.
Anyways, have a nice fresh +1. |
Tommy Freelander
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Show me the ISK.
I want to see how much everyone is getting so that I know I'm getting my fair cut. I haven't got the slightest clue how ISK is awarded as it is.
Would also be nice to see how much everyone loses. |
Swufy Gnomenclatur
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 22:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
I thought of this awhile ago as well... Why is it that whenever someone calls in a dropship to pilot, most leave without getting any gunners? It's because there's no incentive to pilot while your two gunners clear the field. Making it point based means the pilot gets kickback as well, or INCENTIVE to be SUPPORTIVE!
However, leave the KDR for the Ambush maps, since that's the point. But Skirmish? Points FTW! |
Velexia Ombra
29
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Posted - 2012.07.28 00:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
Definitely agreed, I just finished a game where I had 9 kills, 0 deaths, and tons upon tons of points... and yet because one guy on the team had 49 kills, I got less skill points than I usually would have because comparitively, my KDR was nothing special (although his spawn camping was pretty special  ) |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 00:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
Agreed. Your K/D ratio should always be second to what you do to support the team. +1 |
Randrii
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 02:11:00 -
[29] - Quote
IMHO We should have k/d, assists, # of hacks, vehicle destructions, instillation destructions, ressuplies, heals, and points. Points would be the most important stat which the rankng is based off of, but the leader boards should be MUCH more exstensive. |
Dante Brown
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2012.07.28 05:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
I support this but even if they decide to incorperate KD ratios after our outcrys for a point system., I doubt EVE players will contract them realising they have a 2.0 KD and a million loses. |
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Rhadiem
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
496
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Posted - 2012.07.28 06:29:00 -
[31] - Quote
+1 bump
KDR is a useful metric, but competitive people go for a metric, and I feel it's a bad one to focus on for this kind of game.
Put it on the leader boards, that's cool, but in-game I'd like to see things ordered by warpoints.
Something like this would be good:
Name Warpoints Kills Assists Revives Repairs
Vehicle kills would be nice to squeeze in there also. Some games I may have only a couple kills but 10 vehicle kills. |
Immortiano Dranon
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
179
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:35:00 -
[32] - Quote
I'm getting sick of bumping this and not getting the slightest answer from any dev/gm |
panoscape01
Doomheim
71
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
agreed. |
Drake Hinaios
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
agreed
then most people stop concentrating on their KDR and start helping the Team to win |
mcbob mcbob
10
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Posted - 2012.08.02 22:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
kdr should only matter in ambush, where your deaths actually hurt your team. |
Velvet Overkill
104
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 00:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
I don't totally agree with this. I don't support removing the kills/deaths from the leaderboards that's shown at the end of a battle. Why not just show it all? Have it be ranked by points and if someone has the same number of points, make it be based on the the number of kills+assists/deaths ? A ratio of kill+assist to deaths is a lot better than a KDR.
Also give points based on the damage done. For example, Based on how to points system is now, a person who dealt 75% of a person's health with an assist should get 75% of 50 points and a person who dealt 15% with a kill should get 15% of the 50 points. |
Sojuro Ryo
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
189
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 01:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
Your k/d is only part of the numbers that will be displayed. There will also be missions completed/failed, total score, assists, veh kills, and so on. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 06:52:00 -
[38] - Quote
Sojuro Ryo wrote:Your k/d is only part of the numbers that will be displayed. There will also be missions completed/failed, total score, assists, veh kills, and so on.
That would help a lot - got a source where this was confirmed? |
KingBabar
37
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Posted - 2012.08.03 08:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
As with many other things here, MAG did it best.
When it comes to ranking players each match, the one who gets most points total should be on top. Kills, deaths and assist should also be listed. A pure killer can still be on the top of the list, he gets points for each kill after all... |
testguy242
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:53:00 -
[40] - Quote
Absolutely agree. I don't even think kill/death ratio should be displayed anywhere. |
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Stile451
Red Star.
76
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Posted - 2012.08.03 13:46:00 -
[41] - Quote
I would love to see a breakdown of how I got the SP that I did in a round.
eg.
Infantry Kills - A
Infantry Assists - B
Vehicle Kills - C
Vehicle Assists - D
Installation Kills - E
Installation Assists - F
Resupplies - G
Respawns - H
Hacks - I
Hack Assists - J
Objective Hacks - K
Heals - L
Repairs - M
SubTotal - S = A+B+C+D+E+F+G+H+I+J+K+L+M
Multiplier - S x Multiplier
Booster - S x Multiplier x Booster
mcbob mcbob wrote:kdr should only matter in ambush, where your deaths actually hurt your team.
It matters in skirmish as well. The attackers have a finite amount of clones but I have never seen a match end because the clone reserves have run out. |
Onieros Voidwalker
14
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Posted - 2012.08.03 13:50:00 -
[42] - Quote
This is crazy important.
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Logisticus Testing
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2012.08.03 17:20:00 -
[43] - Quote
i say leave all the info mentioned above (K/DR, points, Hacks, etc.) but have a system so you can choose how the boards are ranked. hit R1, moves to the next metric, hit L1, moves to the previous. that way anyone can rank the boards depending on what they want to check out. KDR oriented guys will rank by KDR, logi by hacks/repairs/etc, AV by veh destroyed, whatever). but i believe the default value should be by points, before anyone starts rearranging the list. that way everyone gets a chance to rank according to their tastes.
EDIT and i believe skill points and ISK should be based on overall points, that way the people who helped the team the most, supposedly (right now that could be whoever's gunning in the Surya. saw someone who gunned in one match on top with a 60/0 KDR. i kid you not), receive the greatest rewards. |
Enderr Wigginn
0
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Posted - 2012.08.05 02:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
Agreed !
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Immortiano Dranon
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
179
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 09:34:00 -
[45] - Quote
bump |
Oswald Banecroft II
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 11:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
I would love to see my SP breakdown as well.
I do not think points over K/D Ratio is a good idea over the idea of a Kill/Assist/Death Ratio. |
Immortiano Dranon
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
179
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 18:46:00 -
[47] - Quote
bump |
Terram Nenokal
BetaMax.
115
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 20:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
bumping / supporting, this is a must please. The scoreboard promotes the wrong type of behavior currently. |
Immortiano Dranon
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
179
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 18:29:00 -
[49] - Quote
posted an idea on how points should be awarded in 1st post |
Immortiano Dranon
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
179
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 16:37:00 -
[50] - Quote
bump |
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