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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
14149
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Posted - 2016.08.29 15:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
So in this thread Fox posed the following...
Fox Gaden wrote:They would tell us if Nova was canceled, right?
I began to ponder this: Would CCP tell us if Nova was canceled?
CCP keeps the DUST forums operational at the moment so eventually they would have to shut them down, but would they owe us an explanation for why the forums are being taken offline for good? Not necessarily. By canceling Nova they would effectively be ending DUST in the mid-to-long term. Why worry about the community if you are dissolving the project?
The question then becomes: Is there precedent for CCP not communicating intent with us? Yes, there are several. We're living in a perfect example of CCP's subpar ability to communicate intent right now. CCP Rattati and Frame have not discussed anything with the community, provided even minor updates on Project Nova, or done so much as say hello. The last post from CCP Frame, our SENIOR COMMUNITY DEVELOPER, was over two months ago.
Following this topic to a conclusion of sorts...
Is Project Nova canceled? If so, can CCP please let us know the reason?
If not, can CCP please let us know how the project is going? Some Work In Progress images, prototype game mechanics, pre-alpha map designs would be nice to see.
My advice to you, playa.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
7829
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Posted - 2016.08.29 16:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
I just thought the idea of a forum community that does not realize that their reason for existing no longer exists to be kind of funny in a dark and twisted way.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Living Rock 523
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
276
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Posted - 2016.08.29 16:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
My guess is that Nova hasn't been given the green light yet.
If you can't make the game, but hope maybe in the future it will be green lit, it would be best to keep your mouth shut, try and hold onto the fragments of community that remain, and maybe things will all come together later down the road.
If the situation were reversed and the game was currently green lit but may be shut down in the future, it would probably be best to drop some kind of info, drum up some kind of interest to be able to say "look, we've got a bit of a player base already, let us keep working".
Just my thoughts, but who knows. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
8449
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Posted - 2016.08.29 16:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'll go Boundless Optimism on this one and say I am confident that Nova is still under development. However it is entirely inappropriate that the level of communication is so bad right now. Goes to show that some things never change.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
14150
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Posted - 2016.08.29 17:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:I just thought the idea of a forum community that does not realize that their reason for existing no longer exists to be kind of funny in a dark and twisted way. "I see dead communities... They post on forums like regular communities... They don't see the truth... They only see what they want to see... They don't know they are dead."
Living Rock 523 wrote:My guess is that Nova hasn't been given the green light yet. That is a possibility. It would allow development to continue is a kind of ****** limbo state for a long time without actually requiring CCP to commit to anything. That doesn't give me warm fuzzy feelings about Nova's future... but it's something!
My advice to you, playa.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Penumbra or something
7958
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Posted - 2016.08.29 18:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I'll go Boundless Optimism on this one and say I am confident that Nova is still under development. However it is entirely inappropriate that the level of communication is so bad right now. Goes to show that some things never change.
Which begs another question: is there such a thing as too much communication? No Man's Sky being a big example, because lots of communication + changing plans = "false promises".
An example of lots of communication going on right now is Chronicles of Elyria
It's in deep alpha right now, but there are still weekly updates where the developers are saying exactly what every team is working on.
Although right now, they're putting a ton of emphasis on being transparent (for example, stating issues that they're having) as well as being obnoxiously faithful to their "original claims"- wasting time slightly changing a model to make it better match its concept art.
Time will tell how that goes.
Current state of the forums
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
14151
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Posted - 2016.08.29 18:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Which begs another question: is there such a thing as too much communication? No Man's Sky being a big example, because lots of communication + changing plans = "false promises". In the case of NMS not only did they state X and Y features were going to be in the game, but they then fell completely silent after those features were cut.
Again, it all comes back to communicating well.
A blog explaining why these specific features did not make it in at launch would have gone a long way. Cap the blog off with a "It's something we are working on and still want to do*, if the feature is possible in the near term or "We are shelving this in favor of other features that we can implement more quickly" if in the long term.
Oh, and stop Sean Murray from ever speaking to the press again. Spend the money to hire a community manager that knows what they are doing.
My advice to you, playa.
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
10490
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Posted - 2016.08.29 18:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
They didn't tell us when they killed Legion. Why would it be any different for Nova? Because they had a playable demo at FF16? Ha!
Seems to me line they'll keep pushing that reset button when they're not happy with the way things are going with Dust 2.0 and trust that the community will stay amount for the ride. I don't if you guys noticed, but even the forums are dying out. It's only a matter of time until the same 5 guys post on 1 or two threads, and Pokey saying that they're still working hard on something.
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
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Mobius Wyvern
Night Theifs
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
8350
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 18:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
At the end of the day, regardless of what anyone at CCP Shanghai is thinking or could want, they have no authority to communicate with us about anything involving development. As far as we know, that all has to be approved by the Reykjavik office in all cases.
I mean, we could always try doing another Twitter campaign? The last one certainly didn't hurt.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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deadpool lifetone
D3ATH CARD
RUST415
253
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Posted - 2016.08.29 18:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Some people dont understand the concept of "Under Development" or "Work In Progress , Dont Disturb" smh . (-_-) sigh.
( F U!!!! ) * ( Why Dead? )
,
(n+Æn+Çn+¢´)GÇón++pâçGòÉS+ÇX - - - - n++(º Gûí º l|l)/
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Scheneighnay McBob
Penumbra or something
7961
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Posted - 2016.08.29 18:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Which begs another question: is there such a thing as too much communication? No Man's Sky being a big example, because lots of communication + changing plans = "false promises". In the case of NMS not only did they state X and Y features were going to be in the game, but they then fell completely silent after those features were cut. Again, it all comes back to communicating well. A blog explaining why these specific features did not make it in at launch would have gone a long way. Cap the blog off with a "It's something we are working on and still want to do*, if the feature is possible in the near term or "We are shelving this in favor of other features that we can implement more quickly" if in the long term. Oh, and stop Sean Murray from ever speaking to the press again. Spend the money to hire a community manager that knows what they are doing.
I doubt the suits would have let them say anything other than how launch would be sunshine and rainbows.
Current state of the forums
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
14156
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Posted - 2016.08.29 19:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I doubt the suits would have let them say anything other than how launch would be sunshine and rainbows. What "suits"?  Hello Games is a small indie developer being lead by Sean Murray. If anything he is the aforementioned "suit".
My advice to you, playa.
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7th Son 7
Hakuna Matatah Inc
1679
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Posted - 2016.08.29 19:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
I know Riley i've been feeling it lately too, this truly feels like Pergatory, if there ever was one..........Arrrggghhh!!!
Only your complete and total awareness is needed, nothing else will do. ----- OSHO
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
14156
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Posted - 2016.08.29 19:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
deadpool lifetone wrote:Some people dont understand the concept of "Under Development" or "Work In Progress , Dont Disturb" smh . (-_-) sigh. Some people dont want transparency with their game developers smh tbh AF fam.
My advice to you, playa.
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LOL KILLZ
LulKlz
1097
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Posted - 2016.08.29 19:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:At the end of the day, regardless of what anyone at CCP Shanghai is thinking or could want, they have no authority to communicate with us about anything involving development. As far as we know, that all has to be approved by the Reykjavik office in all cases.
I mean, we could always try doing another Twitter campaign? The last one certainly didn't hurt.
You haz my support for Twitter campaign. When do we start?
Dustkillz and chill
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
1538
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Posted - 2016.08.29 20:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pretty safe bet Rattati would say something... I mean this is basically his much loved adopted child at this point, he'd likely have to join the Dust counselling sessions to speak about his sadness if it got hit by the CCP bus. |
Living Rock 523
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
277
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Posted - 2016.08.29 20:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ok I've got a rough conspiracy theory-
Rather than create a brand new-ish shooter to hopefully one day tie into EVE, a very old game at this point, CCP has decided to create a brand new EVE. Since Nova is moving to PC, and both games take place in the same universe, CCP will simply create 1 game. |
Bremen van Equis
Incorruptibles
1237
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 20:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
They're all too busy playing Dust lag-free on private servers. Apparently that game is awesome, and hard to put down...
We all lurk down here...
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Sylwester Dziewiecki
Interregnum.
574
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Posted - 2016.08.29 20:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:So in this thread Fox posed the following... Fox Gaden wrote:They would tell us if Nova was canceled, right? I began to ponder this: Would CCP tell us if Nova was canceled? CCP keeps the DUST forums operational at the moment so eventually they would have to shut them down, but would they owe us an explanation for why the forums are being taken offline for good? Not necessarily. By canceling Nova they would effectively be ending DUST in the mid-to-long term. Why worry about the community if you are dissolving the project? The question then becomes: Is there precedent for CCP not communicating intent with us? Yes, there are several. We're living in a perfect example of CCP's subpar ability to communicate intent right now. CCP Rattati and Frame have not discussed anything with the community, provided even minor updates on Project Nova, or done so much as say hello. The last post from CCP Frame, our SENIOR COMMUNITY DEVELOPER, was over two months ago. EDIT: Found one from 6/29. Right at two months ago. Following this topic to a conclusion of sorts... Is Project Nova canceled? If so, can CCP please let us know the reason? If not, can CCP please let us know how the project is going? Some Work In Progress images, prototype game mechanics, pre-alpha map designs would be nice to see.
To many questions. We must remember that this part of year is a period of vacations in CCP, at that may be the reason of absence of some people on forum.
Bunch of conspiracy theories(only for people that know that 9/11 was inside job):
CCP do not own us any explanation. But at the same point we are group of potential customers for them, so they should 'fight' for us in form of keeping us inform, that they are alive at least. Reason why they are not showing us prototype game mechanics etc. it may be due the stres it generates.. I bet some of us remember marketing that dust514 had in close-beta period: 'thousands of items' slogans had nothing to do with actual game, and everyone who try it, uninstall it right away. Maybe they grow up to level of not showing anything at all and surprising customers with the results at the end rather then listing every singiel feedback and failing to deliver 1/4 of it.
I think they developing Nova because for a long time there was no better conditions for CCP to have time to make new game that today: EVE Citadels, new superstructures are online and they are doing fine, Valkyrie is already launched and it is just fine, Gunjack is totally ok - kids are buying copies of it like fresh muffins. There is no other giant project on CCP horizon for now, right? So what else they could be occupy with?
This is Skirmish v1.0
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
14157
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Posted - 2016.08.29 21:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:So what else they could be occupy with? Gunjack Next. And CCP has the habit of yanking people from projects to work on EVE for a variety of reasons. See: CCP FoxFour.
My advice to you, playa.
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Dreis ShadowWeaver
RIP DUST 514
9462
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Posted - 2016.08.29 21:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
It's so obvious that CCP just doesn't want a repeat of Legion. Wouldn't you be paranoid about updating about Nova with the Legion fiasco so clear in your memory?
Just relax.
The first thing that would happen if CCP updated would be that everyone would activate their hype-thrusters, and then if Nova gets cancelled everyone would throw a fit because 'they promised!'
I can't understand why you're so adamant that CCP NEEDS to update. They don't, and they are wise not to.
We did it for Nigel ( ; ~;)7
Come play BF4 with me on PS3! PSN: AnimeLover456
Tomoko is mai waifu
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Scheneighnay McBob
Penumbra or something
7962
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Posted - 2016.08.29 21:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I doubt the suits would have let them say anything other than how launch would be sunshine and rainbows. What "suits"? Hello Games is a small indie developer being lead by Sean Murray. If anything he is the aforementioned "suit".
Investors, as well as Sony.
Especially Sony, really.
Just because they're indie devs doesn't mean they don't answer to anyone.
Current state of the forums
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
14157
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 22:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Investors, as well as Sony.
Especially Sony, really.
Just because they're indie devs doesn't mean they don't answer to anyone. Hello Games is privately owned. In this interview about a month before launch confirms Hello Games has not taken money from Sony.
Direct quote from article wrote:Murray is, at least in part, culpable for the gale of hype. Sony, whose successful video game division is dedicated to funding and nurturing game development talent, offered Hello Games financial support. Murray turned down the funding, instead requesting a prime segment during the Japanese companyGÇÖs E3 2014 press conference. So they accepted a nice bit of advertising at E3, but no cash.
Hello Games' current pisspoor state of communication is not the fault of some diabolic executive board or heartless investors. It's their own damn fault. Well, more specifically Sean Murray, who is more of a software engineer and less of a community manager/PR person... which is probably why he ****** it up so badly.
My advice to you, playa.
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Mobius Wyvern
Night Theifs
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
8352
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 22:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Investors, as well as Sony.
Especially Sony, really.
Just because they're indie devs doesn't mean they don't answer to anyone. Hello Games is privately owned. In this interview about a month before launch confirms Hello Games has not taken money from Sony.Direct quote from article wrote:Murray is, at least in part, culpable for the gale of hype. Sony, whose successful video game division is dedicated to funding and nurturing game development talent, offered Hello Games financial support. Murray turned down the funding, instead requesting a prime segment during the Japanese companyGÇÖs E3 2014 press conference. So they accepted a nice bit of advertising at E3, but no cash. Hello Games' current pisspoor state of communication is not the fault of some diabolic executive board or heartless investors. It's their own damn fault.
Yeah, basically a perfect storm of bad decisions on the part of the designers.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
|
Dreis ShadowWeaver
RIP DUST 514
9462
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Posted - 2016.08.29 23:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
I think the DUST Devs care very much about the community, and they would tell us if the project got scrapped.
Which is why we now that Nova is still being developed. If it wasn't, they would tell us.
Silence is golden.
We did it for Nigel ( ; ~;)7
Come play BF4 with me on PS3! PSN: AnimeLover456
Tomoko is mai waifu
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Maken Tosch
Dust University
Ivy League
13617
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Posted - 2016.08.29 23:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
Hey there! How is everyone doing? Miss me yet?
Ripley Riley wrote:So in this thread Fox posed the following... Fox Gaden wrote:They would tell us if Nova was canceled, right? I began to ponder this: Would CCP tell us if Nova was canceled? CCP keeps the DUST forums operational at the moment so eventually they would have to shut them down, but would they owe us an explanation for why the forums are being taken offline for good? Not necessarily. By canceling Nova they would effectively be ending DUST in the mid-to-long term. Why worry about the community if you are dissolving the project? The question then becomes: Is there precedent for CCP not communicating intent with us? Yes, there are several. We're living in a perfect example of CCP's subpar ability to communicate intent right now. CCP Rattati and Frame have not discussed anything with the community, provided even minor updates on Project Nova, or done so much as say hello. The last post from CCP Frame, our SENIOR COMMUNITY DEVELOPER, was over two months ago. EDIT: Found one from 6/29. Right at two months ago. Following this topic to a conclusion of sorts... Is Project Nova canceled? If so, can CCP please let us know the reason? If not, can CCP please let us know how the project is going? Some Work In Progress images, prototype game mechanics, pre-alpha map designs would be nice to see.
I respawned myself thanks to an old uplink that was left laying around and long forgotten and yet somehow didn't get popped. Must have been those Energizer batteries I installed earlier.
Anyways, here is a Tweet posted by CCP LogicLoop back in 17 July which was just over a month ago.
https://twitter.com/CCP_LogicLoop/status/754841106488188929
CCP LogicLoop wrote:I am still alive folks. Just been an interesting couple of weeks. Still plugging away on maps though. =)
Some time after that we got a tweet from Dennie Fleetfoot (aka Kevall Longstride) about his recent communications with the Project Nova Dev Team. This was posted a mere 5 days ago.
https://twitter.com/DennieFleetfoot/status/768342277647396864
Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:Having great convos with @CCP_LogicLoop and the rest of the #ProjectNova team about maps and other stuff. Lots of ideas = 1 happy dust bunny
[Tinfoil Hat Activated]: Ego Boosters confirmed for Project Nova.
So yeah, it doesn't seem Project Nova is dead in any way. It just seems to be developing very quietly in the background.
Eve Online Invite
https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
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Corbina Ninja
ItalPetrolCemeTermoTessilFarmaMetalChimica
1375
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Posted - 2016.08.30 00:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
hype for "not nova" presentation at FF17
«Questa è l'Italia del futuro: un paese di musichette mentre fuori c'è la morte.»
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deadpool lifetone
D3ATH CARD
RUST415
254
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Posted - 2016.08.30 00:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:deadpool lifetone wrote:Some people dont understand the concept of "Under Development" or "Work In Progress , Dont Disturb" smh . (-_-) sigh. Some people dont want transparency with their game developers smh tbh AF fam.
.
"You're not yourself when your hungry. Here Riley , have a snickers" lol
.
If i say "hey , we are going to work on the development of the game to make it amazeballs. But its going to take time to present a solid homerun of a product to the "Green Light" team. " = translation = "bro , we got this . Need to focus on this right now , cant be with the fukery on the forums" . ( at least we got loop & a few other's on the forums to keep us entertain )
( F U!!!! ) * ( Why Dead? )
,
(n+Æn+Çn+¢´)GÇón++pâçGòÉS+ÇX - - - - n++(º Gûí º l|l)/
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
8456
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 01:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I'll go Boundless Optimism on this one and say I am confident that Nova is still under development. However it is entirely inappropriate that the level of communication is so bad right now. Goes to show that some things never change. Which begs another question: is there such a thing as too much communication? No Man's Sky being a big example, because lots of communication + changing plans = "false promises". An example of lots of communication going on right now is Chronicles of ElyriaIt's in deep alpha right now, but there are still weekly updates where the developers are saying exactly what every team is working on. Although right now, they're putting a ton of emphasis on being transparent (for example, stating issues that they're having) as well as being obnoxiously faithful to their "original claims"- wasting time slightly changing a model to make it better match its concept art. Time will tell how that goes.
I think there is a level of communication that is considered reasonable. It all comes down to how well the company can set realistic expectations. They could show literally everything that passes across the table which increases the chance of unrealistic expectations forming within the community. So while I rather enjoy indie developers with a lot of transparency, I do find that in many cases it can be counter productive.
At the same time, you have the polar opposite which is very little to no transparency much like we have right now. This effectively starves the playerbase to a near rabid state (just look at the forums now, its quite apparent) clawing at any tiny bit of information. At that point the community will more or less try to find meaning in literally anything no matter how insignificant it can be. That being said, once you develop that mentality within the community, once you DO release information, you're likely to release something that is very likely to happen, but the players will likely take it 5 steps further and speculate to the nth degree.
Don't get me wrong, people will speculate regardless of what you do which does tend to create a degree of "bad hype" which can lead to disappointment. However, holding back 99-100% of what you're working on is only going to make that effect far far worse. What you need to find is a reasonable balance of keep things close to the chest but also not being afraid to give a little peek every once in a while.
I dont think people are looking for "Hey we are going to have this list of features". May a screenshot every week....concept art.....hey guys look at this idea for the HUD we had.... I mean LogicLoop posted a sketch of a map he did with a pen on a napkin and people LOVED it. It doesn't take much....it just takes a little something.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
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Dreis ShadowWeaver
RIP DUST 514
9463
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 01:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I mean LogicLoop posted a sketch of a map he did with a pen on a napkin and people LOVED it. It doesn't take much....it just takes a little something.
... link pls...
We did it for Nigel ( ; ~;)7
Come play BF4 with me on PS3! PSN: AnimeLover456
Tomoko is mai waifu
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
14160
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Posted - 2016.08.30 02:13:00 -
[31] - Quote
Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I mean LogicLoop posted a sketch of a map he did with a pen on a napkin and people LOVED it. It doesn't take much....it just takes a little something. ... link pls...
https://twitter.com/CCP_LogicLoop/status/739639610515574784?s=09
My advice to you, playa.
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Bremen van Equis
Incorruptibles
1237
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Posted - 2016.08.30 15:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
Here's my serious theory, all snark aside:
Working on the premise that a project is not the same thing as a tech demo, I posit there is very little news/communication about or development on Nova because the project has yet to be green-lit. In essence, there is no project...yet...or maybe ever.
"But the tech demo," you say... Please refer back to above premise. Project =/= Tech Demo.
The only news we should be waiting for here is this: Nova has been green-lit.
We all lurk down here...
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Binx Klepto
Eternal Beings
95
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Posted - 2016.08.30 16:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
I'm willing to put PayPal money on this they won't tell us that Nova is cancelled until FanFest next year 2017. Think about if they where going to anything where are the nova fourms just like legion. All talk no walk.
Minmatarin since 05-17-2013
http://dustboard.com/global/merc/Binx_Klepto
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Nomed Deeps
The Exemplars
531
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Posted - 2016.08.30 16:08:00 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Logicloop actually tweeted something new:
Quote:CCP Logicloop GÇÅ@CCP_LogicLoop 7h7 hours ago
Keeping busy with my maps here. Work work work. =D
Not really great new info but it is something.
I cannot be bought, but I can be leased.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
14162
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Posted - 2016.08.30 16:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
Nomed Deeps wrote:CCP Logicloop actually tweeted something new: Quote:CCP Logicloop GÇÅ@CCP_LogicLoop 7h7 hours ago
Keeping busy with my maps here. Work work work. =D Not really great new info but it is something. Good ol' LogicLoop, the best community developer/map designer we've ever had.
My advice to you, playa.
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byte modal
960
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Posted - 2016.08.30 16:55:00 -
[36] - Quote
Neat. An actual post with conversation!!!
*closes a 50-page thread on FF8 Save Points*<---- lol. There's meaning in that.
The cynic in me wants to say that this DUST514 forum being open is hardly a drain on resources. A few months or a year left on registration? Eh, keep it running. Maybe we'll get back to it for an update 'fore the domain expires. Oh hey, there's a shiny new project over there.... *dusts* it all under the rug and casually forgets about it.
We're here. There's only a handful of us posting or making an effort on any level. Honestly, what could alienate us at this point? Even if they pushed that button (whatever it may be), what harm would it cause the company now? If that's the case, the more time they wedge in to separate us (and reviewers) from the failed stench of DUST514, the better. Whatever may be in development, whether it's NOVA or another mobile platform, will draw a new audience with or without the few lingering holdouts in a ghost forum. That's assuming staff is not being reallocated for other projects, if anything is being developed at all.
*flips*
but the delicious frosted side...
gives me hope that they're learning from past mistakes, if not a bit too zealously. Look. They promised the moon and barely jumped off the diving board. Forums got nasty and youtube whoo-oars fanned the flame. Follow that with the Rouge Wedding and the pending 1.3 update (wink), it's no wonder the powers that be are avoiding making any kind of confirmation or denial. Nothing has worked to expectation, and even the things that seemed controllable before the plug was pulled, higher-ups took that control right away. Honestly, CCP Shanghai has been damned if they do, and damned if they don't.
I would probably be curled up in the fetal position wetting myself if I had gone through half of what they have had to deal with flanked on both sides by upper management and a frothing entitled "fan-base" that's never satisfied.
They have always had my respect, more or less. I like to think I'm realistic and patient. That's partly why I am still here. I would prefer some information, but I can totally understand the avoidance---assuming I'm calling motive as it is. If I'm wrong then only time will tell.
When does this domain expire?
I'm teasing of course. It's a thin line. I'm sure it is for a lot of us. But. We're still here.... that means something.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Nomed Deeps
The Exemplars
532
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 18:59:00 -
[37] - Quote
Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:
I can't understand why you're so adamant that CCP NEEDS to update. They don't, and they are wise not to.
This expectation from gamers is caused by what other developers/publishers provide. Other developers/publishers want players to know about their game way ahead of time so at release they will have a lot of gamers already on board. CCP still has an older/more indie way of thinking where marketing is not that important and players will see their game at or shortly before release where CCP then leaves the success of the game up to the players to get their friends onboard. Why do you think so many players never heard of DUST 514?
Unfortunately for CCP, there are alot more games available since they first released EVE Online. Plus as games have grown more expensive and have gotten longer release cycles, today's gamer plans game purchases months ahead of time. All in all, CCP needs to update their strategy or no matter how great Project Nova is, it will still likely have a smaller group of dedicated players and last only a few years just like DUST 514.
I cannot be bought, but I can be leased.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
14162
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Posted - 2016.08.30 19:42:00 -
[38] - Quote
byte modal wrote:Gives me hope that they're learning from past mistakes, if not a bit too zealously. Look. They promised the moon and barely jumped off the diving board. Forums got nasty and youtube whoo-oars fanned the flame. Follow that with the Rouge Wedding and the pending 1.3 update (wink), it's no wonder the powers that be are avoiding making any kind of confirmation or denial. Nothing has worked to expectation, and even the things that seemed controllable before the plug was pulled, higher-ups took that control right away. Honestly, CCP Shanghai has been damned if they do, and damned if they don't.
I would probably be curled up in the fetal position wetting myself if I had gone through half of what they have had to deal with flanked on both sides by upper management and a frothing entitled "fan-base" that's never satisfied.
They have always had my respect, more or less. I like to think I'm realistic and patient. That's partly why I am still here. I would prefer some information, but I can totally understand the avoidance---assuming I'm calling motive as it is. If I'm wrong then only time will tell. CCP did get torn to pieces post-legion announcement, that much is true. But, again, even the way they made the legion announcement was an example of exactly how not to do PR/marketing. You don't proclaim an existing title is being sunset and a new, completely unknown, title will be taking its place on a different platform like that. You do it in posts on the forums first maybe a youtube video from CCP Rouge discussing the Whys and Hows.
Once you have the existing player base nicely acclimated to the idea you can make a big song and dance of it at fanfest.
All that to say CCP royally **** the bed on the legion announcement and because of their inability to roll legion out properly now the players have to deal with essentially zero communication. The backlash from legion wasn't completely on us, but CCP "punishes" us with no communication as if it was our fault.
My advice to you, playa.
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
16018
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 19:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
^
That and you don't bait and switch panels by labeling them Dust then talk about Legion.
I missed the keynote and was confused as hell when I woke up to watch one of the Dust speakers...
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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byte modal
961
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Posted - 2016.08.30 20:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:byte modal wrote:Gives me hope that they're learning from past mistakes, if not a bit too zealously. Look. They promised the moon and barely jumped off the diving board. Forums got nasty and youtube whoo-oars fanned the flame. Follow that with the Rouge Wedding and the pending 1.3 update (wink), it's no wonder the powers that be are avoiding making any kind of confirmation or denial. Nothing has worked to expectation, and even the things that seemed controllable before the plug was pulled, higher-ups took that control right away. Honestly, CCP Shanghai has been damned if they do, and damned if they don't.
I would probably be curled up in the fetal position wetting myself if I had gone through half of what they have had to deal with flanked on both sides by upper management and a frothing entitled "fan-base" that's never satisfied.
They have always had my respect, more or less. I like to think I'm realistic and patient. That's partly why I am still here. I would prefer some information, but I can totally understand the avoidance---assuming I'm calling motive as it is. If I'm wrong then only time will tell. CCP did get torn to pieces post-legion announcement, that much is true. But, again, even the way they made the legion announcement was an example of exactly how not to do PR/marketing. You don't proclaim an existing title is being sunset and a new, completely unknown, title will be taking its place on a different platform like that. You do it in posts on the forums first maybe a youtube video from CCP Rouge discussing the Whys and Hows. Once you have the existing player base nicely acclimated to the idea you can make a big song and dance of it at fanfest. All that to say CCP royally **** the bed on the legion announcement and because of their inability to roll legion out properly now the players have to deal with essentially zero communication. The backlash from legion wasn't completely on us, but CCP "punishes" us with no communication as if it was our fault.
Yeah, I think we're kind of aligned here. I think how they handled LEGION blew up in their faces and since, have gone too far in the opposite direction to compensate. Or to at least avoid similar backlash for anything else. My opinion is that they went too far though. I don't take it as punishment, but I do think that due to some of our reaction and potential bad press, they are holding back. I can understand that, but I think it's misguided and too knee-jerk. Again, assuming that's even what's going on. Hell if I know, tbh.
fingers crossed, and such?
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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byte modal
961
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 20:10:00 -
[41] - Quote
lol.
I wonder though: if I were independently developing a game, where would I stand? I kind think I would be damn near militant about it. "It's my game, fuggers! If you want to play it then play it! Otherwise, stuff the fudd buck and let me do my thing! *fingers in the air*"
lol. probably a good thing I can't code. But if I did, I'd be hellagood at it and would be justified in my stance.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Living Rock 523
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
277
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 20:54:00 -
[42] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:CCP did get torn to pieces post-legion announcement, that much is true. But, again, even the way they made the legion announcement was an example of exactly how not to do PR/marketing.
Let's not forget the herculean effort to push boosters, aurum and packs on us for months, close to half a year, just before FF14. As well as the 10 year road map, and claims of exciting news about Dust before FF14.
In my opinion this goes well beyond bad PR/Marketing. That's just plain mean spirited, and I don't feel anyone is ever justified in saying "oh well look how everyone acted when FF14 hit" to defend CCPs lack of communication (not saying you did Ripley).
I'm fine with the silence at this point, I just really hope they would tell us if Nova had indeed been canceled or green lit. And if it's neither tell us "we want to do Nova, but there is currently an obstacle preventing it. We will know more in the next X to X months".
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
8459
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 22:42:00 -
[43] - Quote
Living Rock 523 wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:CCP did get torn to pieces post-legion announcement, that much is true. But, again, even the way they made the legion announcement was an example of exactly how not to do PR/marketing. Let's not forget the herculean effort to push boosters, aurum and packs on us for months, close to half a year, just before FF14. As well as the 10 year road map, and claims of exciting news about Dust before FF14. In my opinion this goes well beyond bad PR/Marketing. That's just plain mean spirited, and I don't feel anyone is ever justified in saying "oh well look how everyone acted when FF14 hit" to defend CCPs lack of communication (not saying you did Ripley). I'm fine with the silence at this point, I just really hope they would tell us if Nova had indeed been canceled or green lit. And if it's neither tell us "we want to do Nova, but there is currently an obstacle preventing it. We will know more in the next X to X months".
In many ways I'm not even that upset by the silence. I think k it's a mix of Boundless Optimism and general numbness to it all. If anything, while I'm not terribly worked up over the silence, I feel like this is an opportunity to rebuild their relationship with the player base and it is effectively being wasted....if I'm upset about anything, it's about that aspect in particular.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
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byte modal
961
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 23:05:00 -
[44] - Quote
^general numbness. that's pretty much it for me, really. I can think and speculate but it's rather pointless. I'd even go so far as to say that rebuilding a relationship with the remaining what.. like 7% (?) of the player base isn't really worth it considering that the larger portion of the player base from DUST will mostly hate anything they release at this point because it's not "dust" or what dust "could have been." Safe bet is to work on attracting a new core. If anyone filters in from the past, bonus but not primary. If that's the case, this forum site is just a nod to the faithful few that at this point may eat anything given.
Just my gut feeling from a marketing perspective.
gah i hate to sound so cold about that! ha. sorry =\
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Alena Asakura
Rogue Clones
Yulai Federation
1168
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 00:41:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:I just thought the idea of a forum community that does not realize that their reason for existing no longer exists to be kind of funny in a dark and twisted way. "I see dead communities... They post on forums like regular communities... They don't see the truth... They only see what they want to see... They don't know they are dead." Living Rock 523 wrote:My guess is that Nova hasn't been given the green light yet. That is a possibility. It would allow development to continue is a kind of ****** limbo state for a long time without actually requiring CCP to commit to anything. That doesn't give me warm fuzzy feelings about Nova's future... but it's something!
All I can say is this whole episode has had a very negative impact on CCP in my life. I used to be a fairly avid EvE player. I tried Dust and got hooked and now they've cancelled Dust and I no longer can go back to EvE because, well, hooked on Dust. I still have active accounts on EvE but if they don't bring out Nova and nothing else happens to change this turn of events for me, I'll be cancelling my EvE accounts as well.
I once had visions of living in both worlds, with interaction between them, but since CCP dropped the ball on that idea it's all just gone downhill from there. Now I feel like I don't really have much interest in anything that CCP is doing. |
Alena Asakura
Rogue Clones
Yulai Federation
1168
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 00:46:00 -
[46] - Quote
Living Rock 523 wrote:Ok I've got a rough conspiracy theory-
Rather than create a brand new-ish shooter to hopefully one day tie into EVE, a very old game at this point, CCP has decided to create a brand new EVE. Since Nova is moving to PC, and both games take place in the same universe, CCP will simply create 1 game.
Not likely. The EvE community would be in an uproar. They live, breathe, exist in that world. They wouldn't be interested in switching across to a new game, even if it could be done, which I seriously doubt.
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Alena Asakura
Rogue Clones
Yulai Federation
1168
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 01:13:00 -
[47] - Quote
Living Rock 523 wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:CCP did get torn to pieces post-legion announcement, that much is true. But, again, even the way they made the legion announcement was an example of exactly how not to do PR/marketing. Let's not forget the herculean effort to push boosters, aurum and packs on us for months, close to half a year, just before FF14. As well as the 10 year road map, and claims of exciting news about Dust before FF14. In my opinion this goes well beyond bad PR/Marketing. That's just plain mean spirited, and I don't feel anyone is ever justified in saying "oh well look how everyone acted when FF14 hit" to defend CCPs lack of communication (not saying you did Ripley). I'm fine with the silence at this point, I just really hope they would tell us if Nova had indeed been canceled or green lit. And if it's neither tell us "we want to do Nova, but there is currently an obstacle preventing it. We will know more in the next X to X months".
Why not say it just like it is?
They lied to their player base. Simple. |
Living Rock 523
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
278
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 09:45:00 -
[48] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:The EvE community would be in an uproar
Exactly, they are trying to figure out the best way to drop the bomb.
I realize Nova will be focusing on the basics, but if they were to get a wild hair again and want to take another shot at the combined universe thing I don't think EVE is the game to do it with anymore. It simply can't last forever.
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Living Rock 523
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
278
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 10:27:00 -
[49] - Quote
In all reality though I'm certainly not expecting Nova to ever be tied to EVE, for a lot of reasons, but mainly due to EVEs age. If my research was accurate EVE just turned 13 in May and you figure the absolute best case scenario for Nova would be a full release in 2 years (Pokeys boundless optimism is starting to rub off on me). That leaves you with a game released in 2003 and a game released in 2018 that you now must tie together. Not factoring in the time it would take to iron out Nova enough to begin combining the 2 games.
It just seems far easier to let EVE putter out, even if it takes another 5-10 years, then create a completely new game containing both concepts. I'm no game designer but I would imagine this would be far easier than 2 separate games.
I'm also not knocking EVE. What CCP has done over there is amazing, and without EVE there never would have been a Dust. Good show CCP. |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
7836
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 12:17:00 -
[50] - Quote
Joel II X wrote: It's only a matter of time until the same 5 guys post on 1 or two threads, and Pokey saying that they're still working hard on something.
If Nova goes to Closed Beta, Pokey and those other 5 guys better get a Bata invite! 
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Alena Asakura
Rogue Clones
Yulai Federation
1170
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 12:19:00 -
[51] - Quote
Living Rock 523 wrote:In all reality though I'm certainly not expecting Nova to ever be tied to EVE, for a lot of reasons, but mainly due to EVEs age. If my research was accurate EVE just turned 13 in May and you figure the absolute best case scenario for Nova would be a full release in 2 years (Pokeys boundless optimism is starting to rub off on me). That leaves you with a game released in 2003 and a game released in 2018 that you now must tie together. Not factoring in the time it would take to iron out Nova enough to begin combining the 2 games.
It just seems far easier to let EVE putter out, even if it takes another 5-10 years, then create a completely new game containing both concepts. I'm no game designer but I would imagine this would be far easier than 2 separate games.
I'm also not knocking EVE. What CCP has done over there is amazing, and without EVE there never would have been a Dust. Good show CCP.
Edit: CCP may also see some new hardware or something on the horizon. Possibly after jumping onto the PS3 instead of waiting for the PS4 (I know, should have been PC from the beginning, just work with me) they've become a bit more careful/hesitant? I know they are sticking with the PC, and I hope the whole VR thing doesn't come into play, but maybe there's some new PC hardware/software coming in the next few years to justify waiting? I would imagine someone here can answer that particular question.
Frankly, anyone waiting for EvE to peter out of its own accord is probably going to be waiting for a very long time. I don't believe trying to build a shooter separately and then melding it into EvE is the right approach were they to do that. As such I agree with you. If they really wanted to integrate EvE and a shooter, they should build it within EvE. If that's not possible, just forget the whole thing. Waiting for EvE to die is futile. |
Alena Asakura
Rogue Clones
Yulai Federation
1170
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 12:23:00 -
[52] - Quote
Living Rock 523 wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:The EvE community would be in an uproar Exactly, they are trying to figure out the best way to drop the bomb. I realize Nova will be focusing on the basics, but if they were to get a wild hair again and want to take another shot at the combined universe thing I don't think EVE is the game to do it with anymore. It simply can't last forever.
Afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. EvE isn't just another game. It actually can last forever (at least in terms of lifespan of MMORPGs). The only thing that would kill it would be collapse of CCP, and even then, someone will likely buy it (or perhaps the player base itself) and continue its operation for the totality of the foreseeable future. |
Solaire Randash
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
111
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:34:00 -
[53] - Quote
They should've kept 514 online until Nova was green-lit >.>
Nomad: He is Jaffa!
Jack: No, but he plays one on TV!
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
14169
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:58:00 -
[54] - Quote
Solaire Randash wrote:They should've kept 514 online until Nova was green-lit >.> We're getting off topic a bit, but I wanted to respond to this because I see it pop up in other threads...
TL;DR - CCP Shanghai has bigger things on their plate right now. DUST 514 would just create more trouble than it's worth.
No, we really don't need DUST 514 to be online right now. Maintaining DUST's fubar code is not something I would wish on any team trying to simultaneously develop project nova. Even as little as an hour a week spent upkeeping DUST's servers is too much time spent on a dead game. I know a lot of players are jonesing for DUST and I feel for you, but we can't keep CCP Shanghai busy with project nova and DUST 514 then expect them to have an alpha ready for us in a reasonable time.
More than that, you guys are remembering DUST through rose-tinted HUDs. Remember Fatal Error crashes for no goddamn reason? 8 man teams of Massholes with myofibs, decked out in officer gear? Being placed on a team with no less than 15 bluberries who literally just finished their academy matches? Ordering an LAV only to have the RDV yoyo around like a coked up breakdancing ostrich only to then have the LAV explode because **** you? Remember all of that horseshit?
DUST had its moments, but it was very broken. There were posts every other day for bugs that had existed for years. Let it quietly go softly into memory and look forward to the next step: project nova.
My advice to you, playa.
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Living Rock 523
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
278
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:12:00 -
[55] - Quote
Solaire Randash wrote:They should've shut 514 down soon after Legion was announced>.>
I don't know Ripley, I agree with him
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Living Rock 523
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
278
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 16:25:00 -
[56] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:
Afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. EvE isn't just another game. It actually can last forever (at least in terms of lifespan of MMORPGs). The only thing that would kill it would be collapse of CCP, and even then, someone will likely buy it (or perhaps the player base itself) and continue its operation for the totality of the foreseeable future.
I understand MMORPGs can last quite along time, but as a business interested in making money CCP would be completely out of their minds to not attempt (or at least discuss) recreating the magic of EVE in a new game at some point. There is no way around the fact that in 10 years EVE will be a dinosaur no matter how stable it still is, on top of the fact that it would not be smart to tie what is suppose to be a AAA shooter (or was suppose to be, at least) to such an old game.
And in the event that CCP did collapse, that would be pretty obvious proof that they should have attempted an EVE 2.0 or whatever. Plus at some point (who knows when) another company will take a shot at doing what EVE does, only newer and better. Whether they would succeed or not, who knows. But that whole saying about not resting on your laurels and what not.
I feel that at this point EVE is a time capsule, albeit a very successful one. |
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