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Heimdallr69
Negative-Feedback.
7149
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Posted - 2016.04.24 23:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
I like 32v32 I tend to go 60+ kills and 14-20 deaths in Battlefield games but in dust that would be spendy |
Celus Ivara
DUST University Ivy League
463
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Posted - 2016.04.25 15:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
Different match sizes lead to different experiences. My feel on different experiences is if one doesn't ruin the other then let's have 'em all. Intimate 6v6, tactical 16v16, sprawling 32v32.... choose what you want to play from the battle menu. All can be fun modes; I don't see a need for us to choose.
#PortDust514
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
3725
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Posted - 2016.04.26 10:51:00 -
[33] - Quote
So responding to some of what I've read from you good people so far...
The MMO aspect of Dust isn't going anywhere. It may change, alter, become lessened in one degree, expanded in others. If over a decade of making the most complex MMO in the history of gaming has taught CCP anything, it's how to do MMO.
What they can't do and Dust was a brave attempt at it, is make a super fast, super slick, lag free FPS environment. And the brutal truth in today's very competitive free to play FPS market is unless that element works from day one of launch, then no matter how much MMO is in it, today's gaming public will skip over it and try the next one.
Those who read and frequent these forums will certainly try it for longer than most. But CCP needs mass market appeal for this to be viable. And we need it too, because without it this game dies and Nova won't grow to full product that can sustain the cost of adding to it and expansions. Not understanding that or insisting that ALL the MMO be in the game from day one without getting the FPS rock solid first, dooms the game.
CCP put the cart before the horse with Dust 514 as far as the MMO aspect is concerned. Resources and a great deal of Dev time was spent on a single feature, Obital Bombardment, which ultimately was only used by a minority of players, approximately 1% of the player base according the CCP Rattati in a recent interview. Those are resources that in hindsight were frankly squandered when you look at how poor the games FPS aspect was at launch, resulting in a massive number of fixes for Uprising, none of which could get past the poor original code without a full rewrite.
I will certainly still push for the MMO to be added when the game is able to support it but only when it works both for the players and the game experience, not for the sake of having it.
It is rare for a games original concept to get a second chance. CCP Rattati's plan to get the basics nailed before adding the rest of the concept is the best chance we have as fans to see Dusts potential realised.
CPM 1&2 Member
CEO of DUST University
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University Ivy League
1290
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Posted - 2016.04.26 17:25:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:So responding to some of what I've read from you good people so far...
The MMO aspect of Dust isn't going anywhere. It may change, alter, become lessened in one degree, expanded in others. If over a decade of making the most complex MMO in the history of gaming has taught CCP anything, it's how to do MMO.
What they can't do and Dust was a brave attempt at it, is make a super fast, super slick, lag free FPS environment. And the brutal truth in today's very competitive free to play FPS market is unless that element works from day one of launch, then no matter how much MMO is in it, today's gaming public will skip over it and try the next one.
Those who read and frequent these forums will certainly try it for longer than most. But CCP needs mass market appeal for this to be viable. And we need it too, because without it this game dies and Nova won't grow to full product that can sustain the cost of adding to it and expansions. Not understanding that or insisting that ALL the MMO be in the game from day one without getting the FPS rock solid first, dooms the game.
CCP put the cart before the horse with Dust 514 as far as the MMO aspect is concerned. Resources and a great deal of Dev time was spent on a single feature, Obital Bombardment, which ultimately was only used by a minority of players, approximately 1% of the player base according the CCP Rattati in a recent interview. Those are resources that in hindsight were frankly squandered when you look at how poor the games FPS aspect was at launch, resulting in a massive number of fixes for Uprising, none of which could get past the poor original code without a full rewrite.
I will certainly still push for the MMO to be added when the game is able to support it but only when it works both for the players and the game experience, not for the sake of having it.
It is rare for a games original concept to get a second chance. CCP Rattati's plan to get the basics nailed before adding the rest of the concept is the best chance we have as fans to see Dusts potential realised.
While I agree with you Kevall, the other aspect (MMO/Connection to EVE) is important as well.
Dust514 mainly survived as long as it did because of the (let's be honest) limited and sometimes flawed integration to EVE. Basically it did a half ass job on Integration, and botched the FPS part.
The risk I see (and pointed out in most reviews) is that "A Great FPS" with only a layer of EVE paint, might not be enough to hold people's interest for long in the highly saturated FPS market (you yourself mention).
While I agree it's too early right now to discuss in details what a future EVE link might bring, I think it's very importaint that Nova have something at official launch, to set it apart from the competition.
Nova must nail both these topics IMHO.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
7652
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Posted - 2016.04.26 17:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Kevall Longstride wrote:
People have said that looks like a clone of X or Y or Z game already out there. Well, thats not so bad, COD, the BF series and Halo are all massively successful. For Nova to be compared to them at this early stage even without the Dust bits we all know and love bodes very well for the future of a New Eden FPS game.
The reason people are comparing to to COD and Halo is because it has the same ****** elements of the games, small areas, small numbers, TDM only, bloody screen so real!, etc We already have enough crappy clones of said games so why do we want another one? I realize that your posts are just a rhetorical excuse to spout off and you are not actually interested in reading apposing viewpoints, but...
small areas: The map they used for the Demo was small, but they intend to reuse the DUST maps for Planetary Conquest and I would assume there will be a variety of different size maps for Public matches.
small numbers: Only the demo was 6 v 6, and that was due to physical space restrictions at the venue and to reduce que times since there might not always be 32 people standing around waiting to play. Nova will be 16 v 16 at launch (much more than COD), and if the architecture holds up they can always add game modes with more people later.
Sorry, I don't know what TDM means, nor do I get the "bloody screen so real!" reference.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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byte modal
705
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Posted - 2016.04.26 18:05:00 -
[36] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Kevall Longstride wrote:
People have said that looks like a clone of X or Y or Z game already out there. Well, thats not so bad, COD, the BF series and Halo are all massively successful. For Nova to be compared to them at this early stage even without the Dust bits we all know and love bodes very well for the future of a New Eden FPS game.
The reason people are comparing to to COD and Halo is because it has the same ****** elements of the games, small areas, small numbers, TDM only, bloody screen so real!, etc We already have enough crappy clones of said games so why do we want another one? I realize that your posts are just a rhetorical excuse to spout off and you are not actually interested in reading apposing viewpoints, but... small areas: The map they used for the Demo was small, but they intend to reuse the DUST maps for Planetary Conquest and I would assume there will be a variety of different size maps for Public matches. small numbers: Only the demo was 6 v 6, and that was due to physical space restrictions at the venue and to reduce que times since there might not always be 32 people standing around waiting to play. Nova will be 16 v 16 at launch (much more than COD), and if the architecture holds up they can always add game modes with more people later. Sorry, I don't know what TDM means, nor do I get the "bloody screen so real!" reference.
My guess is Team Death Match (as if this is the only game mode that will exist), and blood splattering on the screen when shot to add visual aid to bring you in.
Regardless, I agree with you and tire of the few holdouts that spout off to stir the pot ignoring posts that address their complaints. Even if the game never gets a green light, we have not enough evidence to begin casting stones as if it were a release build. It may never release. Or if it does, it may actually not have the elements some are crying over. However, no one knows at this point in time what is to come, if anything. It's petty to draw such hard lines on what-if mentality with no evidence.
*shrugs*
oh. And Fox: I think I have a forum man-crush on your posts. Thanks for all the info and your level head over the years. All the best to you and I hope to see your name pop up in the future whatever-game-to-come forums may exist.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
7652
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Posted - 2016.04.26 18:34:00 -
[37] - Quote
We should keep in mind that this is Pre-Alpha.
I expect the Alpha will have more fitting options and the progression will be worked on.
By the time we get to a Beta I would expect to have full progressions, fittings, P2P Nova markets, chat channels, corporations, Planetary Conquest, etc.
At some point in the Beta I would like to see shared chat channels with EVE, Shared Corporations with EVE.
I would like to see the economic integration of the two games at some time in the Beta, but it sounds like that might come in an expansion after release. Personally I think it would be better to design Planetary Conquest and the economic integration with EVE at the same time, rather than giving PC placeholder objectives as they did in DUST.
Maybe some day, we can get Orbital Strikes again, but there is no point in even starting development on that until the economic integration has gotten EVE Corporations wanting to hold districts.
What I am more interested in is some open world content, such as the Scavenging Districts mentioned in the Legion discussions. There is where I might like to see larger groups of people on a map, and the opportunity for social interaction over personal objectives rather than team objectives. That would give it more of a MMO feel.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
7652
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Posted - 2016.04.26 18:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
byte modal wrote:oh. And Fox: I think I have a forum man-crush on your posts. Thanks for all the info and your level head over the years. All the best to you and I hope to see your name pop up in the future whatever-game-to-come forums may exist. If this forum shuts down when DUST goes offline, I assume they will add a subsection for the new FPS on the EVE forum. I post on the EVE forum as Renier Gaden.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Avallo Kantor
1131
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Posted - 2016.04.26 18:39:00 -
[39] - Quote
I would argue from a development standpoint that getting the FPS portions to feel and play correctly is far harder, and more central to the game than anything else.
In software development there is a concept called "Minimum Viable Product".
What this means is that you complete the bare minimum you need to make the product what it is. For larger projects this can be a hard question at times, but I think nobody would disagree that the minimum viable product of DUT / NOVA is the FPS portion. CCP right now is doing a very wise thing by working as they are because it is apparent that they are taking on the Minimum Viable Product approach to Nova. This means until they get the features for the MVP done, they will focus on no other aspects that are outside the MVP no matter how important those features are.
The advantage of taking on this approach is that, as long as you have even close to a reasonable timeframe, you will have a product which you can present at the end, and it will do what it needs to for it to "work". This means once you reach the MVP that you can freely add other features in list of priority without having to worry about shipping a non-functional product. (As with Repositories / Branches you can always branch back to that MVP state)
As much as I LOVE Dust it should be apparent that certain parts of the Dust's MVP were incomplete, thus leading to it's ... difficulties... at launch. Instead too much time was focused on aspects outside of that MVP, which while nice, were ultimately icing on top of a burnt cake.
"Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
3737
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Posted - 2016.04.26 22:20:00 -
[40] - Quote
Minimum Viable Product is exactly what CCP Newcastle has done with Valkyrie.
All other requirements or features that they would like for the game have been but on the back burner till they nailed the main feature, spaceship dogfighting. And as anyone who plays it will tell you, they nailed it big time.
All the round tables and presentations about Valkyrie at Fanfest were about whats coming now into the game after launch. They wanted the launch out of the way and working before they added the other stuff.
It's the same philosophy that Shanghai is following with Project Nova.
CPM 1&2 Member
CEO of DUST University
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13324
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Posted - 2016.04.27 02:26:00 -
[41] - Quote
I just hope they can one day bring back Skirmish 1.0 now that the legacy code is being rebuilt from the ground up and hopefully in a way that makes it actually work. I don't expect that to be added initially, just something I like to hope for in the distant future.
Eve Online Invite
https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
3739
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Posted - 2016.04.27 06:56:00 -
[42] - Quote
Oh they totally want to put skirmish 1.0 back into the game.
The maps in Nova already have areas that are unlockable and need actions to unlock.
CPM 1&2 Member
CEO of DUST University
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Maitue Mae
The Arkombine Initiative
168
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Posted - 2016.04.27 07:35:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Oh they totally want to put skirmish 1.0 back into the game.
The maps in Nova already have areas that are unlockable and need actions to unlock.
Skirm 1.0?
Awwwwww shieeeeeeeeeet man. We are back, bruv.
My Boots yearn to crush clones brought to my feet from my Rifle. Tell me where to go to fulfill their request.
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