Also, I'm thinking of using the clone unit asset for a vehicle objective.

Have neutral ones that drop on outskirts of map and can't be hacked. Destruction gives 50-100 wp, and gives an extra 10-30 clones to destroyers team.

Possibly get some epic fights out there.
(Just make sure turrets can't see the drop spots...)

Which is why I used the term "Direct Survivability" instead of just "Survivability"...but it is probably most important that both are able to be killed with infantry portable AV...also, an actual role to have other than shoot other HAVs and/or kill footsloggers from inside of the giant battle-box would be nice (Footsloggers don't like it when you shoot at 'em, worked that one out myself)

(something something something siege roles....something something something defense relays)

In eve, the offset of armor hardening and armor repairing/shield reping is capacitor or energy reserve. I notice that tanks currently don't have an sort of energy, they just have durations and cooldowns. Tanks need to have capacitor and then all active modules need to drain capacitor. A tank could drive around with armor hardeners active or speed boosts active and it will last. If they use all three, then they burn up the cap and their "invulnerability" lasts for a very short time and it leaves them with nothing. Gives more skill to using an HAV other than activating all the condoms and pulling out before the swarm orgy hits. Not sure how it would work with dropships, though I believe that all vehicles should be balanced by this mechanic.

It also paves the way for electronic warfare =p

Also, since this is about balancing AV and HAV, I thought I would Quote from another thread regarding swarm launcher "buffs".
This is the conclusion after several heated discussions about what is broken and what is not.
"
Swarm launcher users must MAINTAIN the lock during missile flight or the missiles fly off in random directions and don't hit ****. This eliminates the set and forget system. This also eliminates the issue for us swarm users to have to constantly re-lock onto an enemy vehicle. We launch our missiles and keep launching them until we run out of ammo. However. We have to maintain the vehicle in our hit box or else we lose all the missiles that were launched. This makes our potential damage to vehicles much higher, on the grounds of killing them. However, it's a risk vs reward system. If you get killed, or you are forced to move because of enemy fire. Tough ****. The tank got away. This also rewards DS pilots. If the pilot out maneuvers the lock or simply gets out of range of the lock, then the threat effectively disappears for a time
Vehicles get notification when they have been locked on. This will give the drivers a heads up to find cover or start moving. "

Derrith Erador added with
"The problem with that is the fact that maintaining the lock is rather easy seeing as the PRO swarm has a lock box that is 24x the inner crosshair of a forge gun. So the solution to this, and to the rather underwhelming range is:

There will be three lock range settings:

short: range is 75 meters, with a 20x lock box
medium: range is 150 meters, with 12x lock box
long: range is 250 meters, with a 4x lock box

I'd use this for the standard, needless to say that the assault swarm should be the anti-ADS variant and will have greater lock range, lock box size, but less damage. That's my two cents on it, no point in maintaining a lock if I can just leave your zone with ease."

Original Dead-thread link: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3061313#post3061313

NO..... NEVER........ PLEASE PUT YOUR HANDS UP AND EXIT THE VEHICLE IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!! *throws re's on the back and ready's a forge squad holding their charges aimed at your ride* now, don't ever think about nerfing people things cause your legs are too small for your body, your tank is not a necessity you know, you can always leave it and help take points..... (no reason for tank lav ect exclusive points btw to the long quote) i will not allow you to nerf my fun, ever now get out of the tank please sir

I don't think Godin is seriously advocating the removal of myos...merely providing a parallel module type to the fuel injector (which the other person in the quote suggested removing from havs).

To many of us, armored vehicles are a necessity to have the full experience we're looking for. I don't play ambush anymore because of the lack of vehicles over all (no way of getting cover on most maps other than a vehicle). I only rarely call out my HAVs, But when I call them out it
Is always for a specific purpose. Sometimes that is a Tank Destroyer/Interdiction, other times a mobile wall/intel box, my favorite is being a "distraction Carnifex" where my job is to just get people to tunnel vision into killing me xD. Most of the time though I'll be running swarms and a RR myself, looking for HAVs or Derp ships to push away from points or pushes. Or running up and hoping melee hit detection works xD (it wasn't working well for me earlier today)

I was by no means suggesting a vehicle exclusive objective type, just one that needed ordnance to destory, regardless of I'd it was mounted to an hav or carried by a merc. Another possibility for HAVs is to make NULL cannons take damage...going neutral after their hp pool is depleted. Just something for HAVs to do once more other than suppressing mercs and AV

Also, I'm thinking of using the clone unit asset for a vehicle objective.

Have neutral ones that drop on outskirts of map and can't be hacked. Destruction gives 50-100 wp, and gives an extra 10-30 clones to destroyers team.

Possibly get some epic fights out there.
(Just make sure turrets can't see the drop spots...)

Stuff like this is what I wish for. Things that vehicles can use, destroy, etc. that can help the team out and give the pilots something to do.

Been mashing my face into the keyboard on this so far...

There is NO WAY to balance what we currently have. Adv/pro HAV hulls kill it. Adding adv/pro LAV/ads only complicates matters more.

If we buffed LAV/DS and dropped std/adv HAV. Halved all module efficacy, then added the missing half to skills. (Weekend operators would be helpful, but not OP. Maxed operators skills would show on the field)

Increase resource needs on certain modules to create a meta where one can focus, or spread, but not have all the best aspects on one fit. (Giving LAV/DS fitting bonus to skill for modules that make sense)

Throw that in then adjust AV accordingly. Add new swarm variants. Breach MD AV tuned. AV laser variant. (Needs to be a new color, seriously)

Then, MAYBE, then, we would be closer to balanced than ever.

But wait... That all sounds so familiar....


There is no text description for the forehead implodingly intense /facepalm I'm feeling right now.

Like I said, the current system pretty much needs scrapping, and we should just go back to Chromosome. Then, all we would have to do is switch the acceleration on the HAV's (possibly up them each a bit), tune boosters, and tune hardeners, and the turrets can get worked on from there. Fixed.

EDIT: Even better, if AV was tiercided, then it could be one hull vs. one weapon, so even less frustration for balance.

Removing tiers from AV would require skill bonus' for all related skills to compensate, yes?

Edit: the ahmg can/has/will muddle things. Not an op amount or anything. But still.

what about nova knives and punching

Removing tiers from AV would require skill bonus' for all related skills to compensate, yes?

Edit: the ahmg can/has/will muddle things. Not an op amount or anything. But still.

what about nova knives and punching

That can burn in a fire. It's silliness that makes **** all sense.

That can burn in a fire. It's silliness that makes **** all sense.

removing tiers of weapons is a completelty terrible idea imo, the DS could pull it off but having all of one type of weapon only having pg/cpu changes isn't a good idea, it makes the game seem so much more dull :/ whats the point in getting proto if i can fit a militia with the same stats, everything will be stupid cause this
"okay starter fit ez kill ez game ez life. THIS IS FOR THE WAIFU!!!" *pow pow pow pow pow*
"How the heck did he kill me im full officer/proto, wtf he had stacked armor and damage mods with a militia weapon.... RQ"
no point of making things boring, yes in a way it will reduce idiots complaining about proto spam etc and make some scrubs happy but its not worth killing tiers for honestly, and don't forget we have AV nades, Proxy/RE, and also cant just do it for one set of guns eg. av as it would be stupid and i would cry, but also mainly the amount of componsation skills required would either be too strong, too weak or keep the weapons the same/make them all proto damage values or if you dumped it all onto suits for some stupid reason that would also be ********. by the way why are you guys wanting to nerf AV? i feel its fine as it is and same for tanks at the moment, and just letting you know you should ask for logi dropships back before requesting anything else done, as logi and assault dropships are the proto tier for them. and for LAVs either request logi LAV back or request the tree build into a troop transport thing which is like a land whale i guess, although thats a bit too much work at them moment i think personally just asking for logi lav back and a scout one which has like 10% increased top speed for one race and 10% acceleration for the other or maybe 10% top speed and 15% acceleration and for the other other race the same 15% top speed 10% acceleration (at level 5 for the respective skill tree or maybe just by default as they are meant to be faster and make the skill bonus something like reduced spawn timer on the cru in lav but that seems better suited for the logi one, maybe handling or damage reduction slightly? as they would be weak of course, even more speed would work. as for logi stuff i got no clue what they are planning. also the scout lav could be substituted for a 'assault' LAV which specializes in the back gun and could even have one on the passenger seat, and the skill bonuses could be like fire rate, reload or damage even also no doubt you would want tracking speed. thats all i got... but yeah you really should get those logi LAVs and DSs back.

RIP in peace bumblebee whale :c

I <3 nova knifing tanks, even if i suicide. if you just drive away when i am jumping on you, you woulda been fine. also when proxys are being dropped on you best to leave even sooner :P RIP that one guy the other day

And the Assault (Breach!) Heavy Machine Gun

As Long As Suicide BPO LAVs With REs Exist, I Guess I'm Fine With Tanks o.o

But ADS Is Another Story, AV Nades And Swarm Launchers Could Stay Short If The Pilot Is Smart

We Need Dropship BPOs To Quickly Solve The Problem, Lol

But Really, ADS Are The Safest, Rarely Take AV Nades, Plasma Cannon Hits And Can Get In A Range To Missile You And Not Get Swarm Launcher-ed

I Hope We Get A Fair Re-work, Suicide LAVs Is Not Always Successful...

I'm actually OK with jlav, it is New Eden. XD

A well skilled HAV gives zero fucks about ahmg. And also, I let a minmando try his best. Idk if its glitched or what, but melee does zero damage to my HAV. (And is also the dumbest addition ever)


Edit: ummm is the language filter off or something? O.o

I'm actually OK with jlav, it is New Eden. XD

I'm not. I'd rather the LAV have enough fire power to threaten HAV and ADS.

I'm not. I'd rather the LAV have enough fire power to threaten HAV and ADS.

A methana with 20gj pro and a good gunner actually can.