None of this will matter when the market opens up and all items you can buy with AUR can be sold by players for ISK.

Then you will be able to buy all things with ISK and have no more reason to complain.

Train your engineering and electronics skills to lower your PG and CPU requirements and calm down. Just because you have one less tank mod doesn't mean you lost. Upgrade your damage output or aim better than the other player.

There has to be an advantage to the Aurum items or else nobody will buy them and CCP will make no money. It needs to have a benefit without over doing it, and I think lower PG and CPU requirements are just fine.

yes but no where has this been confirmed, yes there will be a open market but it does not state you can exchange aurum equipment in it, unless you have a link if so then I will walk away and be content with that. however if you cannot exchange aurum equipment this is a major issue.

P.S for example eve online has no such system in it to exchange aurum items between players so what makes you think dust will??? inside info? dev told you?

DUST 514 is not Pay 2 Win. If you check the AUR items' stats you'll see that generally an AUR item is at the same level of an ISK one but with fewer requirements or a little more optimized. Someone dressed in full-AUR dropsuit, with full AUR modules and weapons won't be a one man army. At all. There is no GÇ£AUR AutoaimGÇ¥ or GÇ£AUR Invulnerability ShieldGÇ¥.
We don't like the Pay 2 Win idea at all. There are a lot of games (or "games"...) out there with this mechanism and IGÇÖm talking about videogames, card games, board games as well.
We want something new, something fun, something nice.
We are gamers on the first place, like everyone in this community and we are very intresting in reading opinions and feedback from you guys. We really trust in this game, believe me.
Will it be a success? You'll decide.

tl;dr version:
AUR items != faceroll 2 win

P.S for example eve online has no such system in it to exchange aurum items between players so what makes you think dust will??? inside info? dev told you?

GM Unicorn is and always will be my hero. How do I get a job being a GM's best friend?

There are skills out there that reduce PG/CPU requirements for most, if not all fittings. The only real benefit to the AUR things is they allow you to use them a little a earlier, and fit your suit a little better.

That being said, your entire argument is pointless because I can, with MILITIA GEAR (or maybe one step up), take out a HEAVY in full AUR/Prototype gear. It just takes skill, and being in the right place at the right time. I've taken on 40-50k ISK prototype suits with my 15k suit and won. I have no doubt that if I were to use my prototype suit vs. someone using AUR, it would be a evenly matched fight. Who wins is based purely on skill, not because he spent money and I didn't.

Skills > AUR gear. and I'm not just talking gun game, I'm talking actual in-game skills that increase damage, reduce recoil, decrease reload times, and make your suit much better.

Calling DUST Pay to Win is like calling EVE a Farmville knock-off.

Think you need to be a brony or a little dragon like spike.

[...]

Calling DUST Pay to Win is like calling EVE a Farmville knock-off.

yes but no where has this been confirmed, yes there will be a open market but it does not state you can exchange aurum equipment in it, unless you have a link if so then I will walk away and be content with that. however if you cannot exchange aurum equipment this is a major issue.

P.S for example eve online has no such system in it to exchange aurum items between players so what makes you think dust will??? inside info? dev told you?

Hell I am willing to pay double for a 100% increase (hear me ccp I am willing to hook my debt card up to the aur train)

yes but no where has this been confirmed, yes there will be a open market but it does not state you can exchange aurum equipment in it, unless you have a link if so then I will walk away and be content with that. however if you cannot exchange aurum equipment this is a major issue.

P.S for example eve online has no such system in it to exchange aurum items between players so what makes you think dust will??? inside info? dev told you?

P.S for example eve online has no such system in it to exchange aurum items between players so what makes you think dust will??? inside info? dev told you?

I laughed hard when I read that

There has to be an advantage to the Aurum items or else nobody will buy them and CCP will make no money. It needs to have a benefit without over doing it, and I think lower PG and CPU requirements are just fine.

One of the first things I did when I started playing Dust was check the market. If you look at the AUR items, they really aren't all that impressive. I honestly thought they'd have substantial bonuses over regular gear, but they're pretty similar to the existing weapons/suits/etc. And anyway, I don't imagine seeing people in full AUR outfits will be a thing outside of corp wars (where I imagine it will be required).

yup it that is the case then you are right, but again has not been confirmed :( if it was I would shut up and go away hahaha

Can someone please tell me how to win DUST?

"Men's Sterling Dress Shirt (navy)" for 27,250,00 ISK on the Metropolis Market.

Also don't forget that these bought items can be destroyed in a whim if in the wrong place at the wrong time

I dont think its pay to win, skill must be accounted too and if the guy sucks he will suck in AUR suits too.

Like we say in EVE: deal with it.

anyway, this is the busines model CCP chosed and its too late to look back.

DUST 514 is not Pay 2 Win. If you check the AUR items' stats you'll see that generally an AUR item is at the same level of an ISK one but with fewer requirements or a little more optimized.

ya I agree I do not see how people can say oh there are isk equivalent, and then in the next sentence say that oh they are the same but with less power-grid and CPU requirements?? how is that equivalent?

No. Pay 2 Win means that you are forced to buy stuff with real money in order to progress. You are not forced in DUST 514.

No. Sorry, but no. That is the definition for "Subscription"
Pay to Win IS that you can get an advantage by paying for it.

If after that you'll find the game not nice at all...well, it was a blast, see you around in another one. We don't ask you for any money in order to fully enjoy it, so you did not waste a cent.

Yeah but in terms of having a slight edge between equally matched players, the way it's set up now it is sort of pay to win.

I've said this a few times, but in the replication build it is possible to get the shields of a protoheavy to over 350 with two +5 reppers and all proto weaponry - more than enough to carry you through most 1v1 engagements with the average infantry without taking any armor damage.

This is only possible using AUR purchased equipment. You will win every engagement against an equally skilled heavy without AUR gear 99 out of 100 times - This needs ironing out, not willful ignorance to the facts.

The problem is not so much that CCP is trying to sneak in Pay to Win. It is that they promised us they would not.

What part of all gear aur and ISK are equal don't you guys get , and idk if you fogot it's a beta stop making assumptions on a early version

This is your opinion and I respect that. Since there is someone else in this topic that has a different one, I don't see a problem but just a discussion.
If the problem arises we'll fix it. Trust me if you can.

Jita will tell...

I guess these guys didn't read my description of a real pay-to-win mmorpg dc universe online , go play that then come back and post and see if you still think it's goingnto be a p2w , when we are still in closed beta

There are worse examples out there. But just a little pay to win, is still pay to win!

I say again CLOSED BETA , EARLY VERSION what part of that don't you guys get , they will tweak some things in future versions

And I say IT DOESN'T MATTER that it is a beta!

AUR is there, pay to win is there. Without us telling them to can it, it will still be there when DUST goes live!

I say again CLOSED BETA , EARLY VERSION what part of that don't you guys get , they will tweak some things in future versions

Dude aur gear have a disadvantage , and aur items when they game releases will be able to buy aur gear with ISK , so describe how is it pay to win

yes and the reason for this thread is so they can tweak some things for later version, you making this post helps in no way to the discussion at hand.... I made this thread because I thought this was something that needed to be addressed because like you said it is a closed beta.



Again this has not been confirmed or even hinted at anywhere on the forums or blogs or features or at E3? so consistently bringing it up is not really helping much.

Guys I bought a Proto Suit and loaded it with proto mods and proto weapons with ISK this game is pay2win.

I think even if market goes live, people aren't going to be selling AUR bought items for isk, unless they sold for a huge premium like the GTC / PLEX system in Eve. It could be a way of paying real money to buy a large and market variable amount of isk.
From this point of view it could work, but just as a means to charge real money for the best possible fitting I don't agree with that.

Dude aur gear have a disadvantage

NeX items are being sold on the market in EVE as well, but the prices are just about 1 isk short of insanity.

And


Name ONE!

The fact that aur gear has less slots , and does the word side grades ring a bell not upgrades if you want to test it out how about next time the game is up I'll put on my assualt type one fit with militia mods breach rifle and breach pistol and let's see who wins (I will) then I'm rub it in yo face , also I think you've been playing cod too much , being that this is a team based game many that teamwork beats all , so 1 man with aur gear won't change anything on the field

Again this has not been confirmed or even hinted at anywhere on the forums or blogs or features or at E3? so consistently bringing it up is not really helping much.

Others:
GÇó Market & Inventory is now Integrated with EVE Online systems

What part of AUR and ISK items are NOT equal don't you get?

It IS a beta, but it is also showing the intention of CCP, else it would NOT be here.

Just to repeat, again. some AUR items have a dramatically lower CPU/PG demands (30-50% lower), and/or somewhat higher stats for DPS/Shield/range etc. (5-10% is not minor btw)

THAT IS NOT EQUAL!

From an article in Penny Arcade Report from an interview with Atli M+ír Sveinsson, the creative director of Dust:

"The markets of EVE Online and Dust 514 will also be linked."

http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/fanfest-feature/2

****

Eve has an active player market that includes trading AUR items bought in the NEX store and selling them to other players for ISK. Dust is part of the Eve universe its market will work like Eve's unless CCP has a massive departure from how they allow player markets to run. This is not supposition or speculation but actual observation of the Eve market that CCP currently has going.


Another quote from Forbes from an interview with CCP Games CEO Hilmar P+¬tursson:

"The key trick is in balancing the economies. The side-by-sides of a price of a gun in DUST 514 which you can hold in your immortal hands and a ship in EVE thatGÇÖs the size of a city are the tricky things to get right. This is why we start carefully on that front in the beginning and then open it up as we gain understanding of how the ecosystem will behave over time with players in the mix."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/04/29/dust-514-promises-to-be-a-game-changer-an-interview-with-ccp-games-ceo-hilmar-petersson/


The Eve and Dust markets will be linked the only thing that is not confirmed is the time-frame.

Edit:

After some thought I came to this conclusion:

I think that being able to buy Aurum items with ISK will alleviate a lot of the problems, however we all need to carefully look at the items and do a cool and calculated examination of the AUR items compared to their ISK counterparts. I think we may need to create some stats spreadsheets and whatnot to really get an objective comparison. My personal belief is that its not an issue if Aur items create some kind of advantage, but an unfair advantage.

And


Name ONE!

And


Name ONE!

I'm all for adding things to the game that people can buy with real money, I personally would rather buy sweet disco balls and lava lamps for my Merc Quarters.

GM's, especially super bro tier GM Unicorn, PLEASE LET ME PAY YOU REAL MONEY FOR DISCO BALLS AND LAVA LAMPS.

Do laps around the couch in the Merc Quarters. When you reach a pre-set number of laps, a value only known by CCP, you will have officially beaten Dust514.

They actually let you pay for your subscription with currency earned in game. Eve is all about risk vs. reward. There were some videos of groups of players taking down other groups using only the basic ships.

And in case you missed it the first time, you can pay for your game subscription with money you earn in game. Even EVE is free to play.

Yep. I have two accounts and I haven't paid a dime for them in over 6 months, its done all with ISK.

The item is called PLEX, and people can buy it from CCP for like $15-20. PLEX can be either converted into AUR to buy premium items, used to add 30 days to your account's game time, or sold on the open market where other players can buy it for ISK. I make enough ISK every month in EVE to buy two PLEX which I use to add 30 days to both of my characters.

Its not that I'm playing EVE for free, I'm simply using ISK to pay someone else to pay for my accounts. The same will go for items in Dust, its not that I'm getting the AUR items for free, I'm simply using ISK to pay someone else to buy the items for me. Either way CCP gets their money, which is why they'll allow this system in Dust as well.

ya i have three accounts and have not paid for any of them for about 3 months now. but 1.5bil isk every month is nothing to shake a stick at either haha :p I would hate to earn that in dust haha only up to 5 mil in dust hahahaha

Yes, and this also leads to another point, someone, somewhere, will have to pay something for the game to work.

By work I mean run on servers and get new content, and have people patch problems and that sort of thing. So don't we want at least some players to try to pay to win? Even if you keep telling them they can't, really? I have seen already in combat that upgraded gear doesn't always trump the starting gear. And as far as I can tell right now anything is better than a shotgun. Is it not counter productive to sink so much time and effort into trying to balance the economics of the game comparing Isk versions of items to AUR versions when an entire weapon type often seems completely outclassed in every way by anything?

If AURUM stuff is still there at launch , i wont play DUST514 anymore and thats for sure.

It was too good to be true.

If AURUM stuff is still there at launch , i wont play DUST514 anymore and thats for sure.

It was too good to be true.

DUST 514 is not Pay 2 Win. If you check the AUR items' stats you'll see that generally an AUR item is at the same level of an ISK one but with fewer requirements or a little more optimized. Someone dressed in full-AUR dropsuit, with full AUR modules and weapons won't be a one man army. At all. There is no GÇ£AUR AutoaimGÇ¥ or GÇ£AUR Invulnerability ShieldGÇ¥.
We don't like the Pay 2 Win idea at all. There are a lot of games (or "games"...) out there with this mechanism and IGÇÖm talking about videogames, card games, board games as well.
We want something new, something fun, something nice.
We are gamers on the first place, like everyone in this community and we are very intresting in reading opinions and feedback from you guys. We really trust in this game, believe me.
Will it be a success? You'll decide.

tl;dr version:
AUR items != faceroll 2 win

And for all of you that push this notion of Pay to Win:
-We still didnt see all weapons,dropsuits and items so dont judge about AUR items being overpowered becouse they will probably add ISK ones of the same quality but probably of higher level and you will be able to buy AUR items that were made by players that they are selling for ISK(probably not the same name but variation of it which you may notice in VARIATIONS)
-You are getting a free game.A FREE GAME.Do I need to write that again?FREE GAME.You probably wont put any money in it and it will take some more time to get to higher level and ofcourse they will give some bonuses to those that will.They will keep them going and make them a profit which is the whole point of launching a game especially one this big.Thats how the world works.You dont get something from nothing but they are giving you a ability to do that here.
I may be wrong on all points and I apologize if I am.But I just cant stand people whining about something they get for free.Its like watching one of those videos when kid gets Iphone 4 and start crying becouse they wanted Iphone 4s.

If AURUM stuff is still there at launch , i wont play DUST514 anymore and thats for sure.

It was too good to be true.

absolutely no gear you buy with aur is overpowered every item is the same , I guess people check the market and just stare at the aur gear and go like oh **** it's p2w , when they should compare both ISK items and aur items and they will see they are equal , pluss when the market goes live we will be able to buy aur gear with ISK. So there is no pay to win , besides the militia asualt rifle and breach pistol can kill anyone

*snip* be nice.

AUR and ISK items the same?

There are differences, that means they are not the same!

Same skill level , there is no upgrades just side grades (quoted from what a ccp dev said) and what I meant to say they will be the same gear come to future updates so quit wining about what's on the market now

Better yet, how about YOU quit whining all the time about people pointing out problems, instead of waiting for the final release to figure out how to live with bugs

Dude I play dc Universe online probably the biggest pay to win , buggeiest mmorpg on the ps3 I know how to live with bugs

Just because you like P2W, doesn't mean you can tell those of us who don't to quit complaining about it.

I really (and I do mean REALLY) don't give a flying **** about DC Universe. And from what you say, it's crap anyway.
DUST is NOT DC Universe, MAG or any other, DUST is DUST, with a side order of EVE, and just because other games are crap and ruined by P2W, doesn't mean we want DUST to be crap as well.

And do remember one little detail, CCP made a promise at the Fanfest, that DUST would NOT be Pay to Win, meaning that even just a LITTLE Pay 2 Win is a breach of that promise. We got less than some other games, but we still got a lot, and quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn about your redefinitions of the terminology to fit your own (and CCP's) notion of what Pay to Win is.

Can a GM or any other player post some comparable specs for a same level equipment or dropsuit?

I know you guys are passonate about the game, and some especially so about views of things like Pay 2 Win but please remember to keep it civil on the forums.

At least you are willing to admit that it is Pay 2 Win. The GM just took the definition of a "Subscription" and called THAT P2W.

I'm all for the Aurum items being slightly better
I personally haven't compared them, but if they really are 30% or so easier to fit, then that to me is pretty bad.

5-10% is fine in my book, but 30% is a bit much

Its still gonna be there , goodbye , youll miss out on this great game

all I have seen you do is disregard the countless reasonable complaints that people levy at this game.

and as it stands right now it is not a "great" game. I hold out hope that it will be by the time it releases, as there is alot of potential. but as it stands now, it is not even a "good" game. it needs alot of work. and thats why people are pointing out stuff. we want the game to be a success, and we will help CCP reverse this unbalanced mess one aspect at a time. truth hurts, but its part of the process.

they are both maxed out, and it makes 0% difference on the subject, you are talking a difference of 30 cpu between the aurum stuff and the isk stuff, that is will over 25% of the cpu on a suit. so skills are going to have little to do with it.

Aurum items are not 'pay2win' they are 'pay4isk'. You can spend real money on dust and use the items, or sell them to other players to increase your wealth. In concept it's not really any different from PLEX in eve.

However, the items people are taking issue with are the 'reduced fitting cost' items. Every other aurum item has some kind of downside or disadvantage (Some are not shown in attributes window), which makes them sidegrades, not upgrades. Most of the aurum items with 'reduced fitting' do not have these disadvantages, and this is where this entire debate is coming from. This is the only ground 'pay2win' opposers really have to stand on, and I admit that it is something that needs to be tweaked.

Give these variants disadvantages (like reduced damage or overall effect), and these complaints will evaporate pretty quickly except from those would complain just for the sake of doing it.

ACtually SKILLS have a lot to do with it.. there is amjor difference between hitting basic 30 with a rifle to a skilled out person hitting 80+ with the same rifle.

The arum system is really pissing me off. I thought CCP was saying they did not want you to be able to buy anything with arum that will allow you to have an unfair advantage over the non aurum players???

This is differently not the case atm. Take for example the shield extenders for drop suits. The best one (going off memory) is 66 hp and takes 60 something CPU. ThatGÇÖs cool so is there a better one? Yes there is for 4 aurum you can get a 66 hp one that only takes 34 CPU??? How is this not an unfair advantage, so basically if I pay from my suit I can fit two extenders on my suit, however though if I use only isk then I cannot fit two. There is no isk equivalent to the 66 hp 34 CPU shield extender, and on top of this you have to have shield upgrades 5. So to fit my high level scout suit I have to buy aurum to get the fit I want and there is absolutely no way to fit it without aurum. This is bull **** and it is 100% Pay to win. So what happen to at E3 CCP saying this would never happen or be a problem when they are doing it right in front of our faces??

And please please, before you say there are isk equivalents to all in game items make sure you check because there is not. I can only think of the shield extender as one but the shield recharger also is one, and I am sure there are many others.

This is only one example but there are many many more just like it, just because you pay for it should have nothing to do with giving you less cpu and PG, I think something should done before both CCP and dust 514 gets a bad name. Just the other day I read a article that stated that it will cost the average player .24 cents per suit and that you lose the suit ever game, and they are right if you can only fit that suit with arum stuff because the power grid/CPU on the "isk equivalent" is in fact far from being equivalent and impossible to fit it. Now this article is very misleading because it did not state that you can also get suits from isk, but with the way the aurum is setup in game this is not really the true either. This is going to seem like to the average gamer that even though the game is free, it costs money to use equipment in the game?? And even though this is not true and that there are manyGÇ¥ isk equivalentsGÇ¥ which are not in fact equivalents most news sources are not going to care about that. So being able to say that there really is no advantage to using real money is going to be a key selling factor to the average gamer.

Now I understand that CCP has to make money and that is not a problem but stick with the boosters, skill bombs or spikes or whatever they are. I love these and think it s a wonderful idea that should be fully utilized. And I will spend all my aurum on these boosters.

So in conclusion please make it so there really is isk equivalent versions of everything on the market, make it cost like 50k each I do not care but do not **** on the guy that does not want to spend money on equipment because he knows he will just die in the next battle and cost him real money as opposed to time.

Discuss/comment/Fame away.

P.S I hope ccp is also not using the beta a sign of how much people will use aurum to buy weapons equipment. I know that I will get my aurum back so atm I am spending it on everything and I am sure a lot of others have the same/similar mindset. Just hoping that CCP does not use it as a motivation to keep doing what they are doing with the aurum system, and I would like to go to the eve system with it being 100% cosmetic based system but I realize with a free to play game that is a bad idea.

Dude I play dc Universe online probably the biggest pay to win , buggeiest mmorpg on the ps3 I know how to live with bugs

ok for one if aurum gave no advantage what so ever not enough ppl would buy it, and 2 do u reallly see some one who has a cheaper shield extender than u dominating in a match and owning u 1v1? no i think ur beter than that, can u please stop worrying about a small advantage a very small amount of ppl will use

What part of AUR and ISK items are NOT equal don't you get?

It IS a beta, but it is also showing the intention of CCP, else it would NOT be here.

Just to repeat, again. some AUR items have a dramatically lower CPU/PG demands (30-50% lower), and/or somewhat higher stats for DPS/Shield/range etc. (5-10% is not minor btw)

THAT IS NOT EQUAL!

my post just above is a example of unbalanced game play. plus that's the issue they are not balanced because if I spend real money on items in game then I get a clear and distinct advantage over others. that was the point i was making, but since players will be able to sell there aurum items to others I rest my case.

I still believe tho that they could use some balancing.

I am content with this post, I rest my case, this thread can be closed for all I care now :D

"Certain items are only available through ISK transactions, while others are only available through AUR. These are then traded freely on a player-driven secondary marketplace." Atli GÇ£PraetorianGÇ¥ Mar

Pay To Win - A purchase which permits a player to obtain an item/buff/whatever that will permit them to beat a player of greater skill in combat.

IE: If a weapon is placed in a marketplace, and it has stats superior to what can be obtained via all drops/vendors/crafting sources, then it is by definition Pay To Win.

Pay To Win is not -
GÇóA purchase which grants advantage in any non-competitive aspect of the game (such as crafting); if there is no 'Winner' then you cannot by definition Pay To Win.
GÇóA purchase of access to additional content to play, regardless of if superior rewards are available in this content. By definition, paying for content that has to be run is Pay To Play, even if a game does not follow a subscription model.
GÇóA purchase which provides 'quality of living' benefits to a player, making the game more enjoyable without providing statistical upgrades to characters (IE: cash caps, raid resets, disabling of pop-ups, server transfers, rename tokens, etc).
GÇóA purchase which circumvents an otherwise cumbersome aspect of the game, giving the paying customer a result without requiring the hours of gameplay nessesary for a non-paying customer to obtain the same result (xp boosts, starting a character at a level higher than 1, purchase of schematics or equipment that are available in-game but require farming to obtain). This is a trade of Time vs Money, but because it does not provide anything that is not attainable through normal gameplay. If both players end on even footing, then there is no 'Win'; competition is still determined by skill. It would be Money vs Time.
GÇóA purchase which provides only a Vanity advantage unattainable by other players, but no statistical upgrade to a character; special Marketplace Only vanity pets or styles.

Pay To Win breaks down as exactly that. If paying money causes you to defeat other players, then the game is Pay To Win. If paying money simply makes the game more enjoyable, or less cumbersome, but leaves you on equal footing with players who elect to spend time instead of money, then the 'Win' aspect is still determined by skill, meaning the game is not Pay To Win.

@GM Unicorn: I respect the fact that despite having your own feelings on this, you are prepared to listen to and get the feelings of everyone else on the subject. I also respect that these are your feelings and not those of CCP. I also get that from what I understand of your definition, it's not Play To Win because the Aurum kit is not so ridiculously overpowered that an ISK player has practically no chance at all of winning against them.

For my thoughts on whether it's actually Pay 2 Win, I found this on the SW:TOR Forums



So, stripping out what's on offer at the moment...

• The Aurum Dropsuits are NOT Pay To Win as they simply offer something cosmetic (and actually lose some slots in some cases)


• The Aurum XP boosters are NOT Pay To Win as they circumvent a cumbersome aspect of the game, i.e. skill point grinding.


• The early skill Aurum Weapons/Modules are NOT Pay To Win as they circumvent a cumbersome aspect of the game, i.e. skill point grinding.


• The CPU/PG Aurum items ARE Pay To Win as they offer superior statistical advantages.

Personally, and I accept this is my own personal opinion, I feel that the CPU/PG stuff 'is' Pay To Win, but only in that you are paying to receive an edge in the game.

Does this mean that I'm utterly against it? No. I'm going to be playing the game for free. My financial contribution to this game will be zero. If everyone's contribution to this game was zero, there would be no game. Someone else is paying for this game that I'm playing. That person can have a slightly bigger gun and a slightly shinier suit and that's fine by me, because I'm a sneaky player, and I have an infinite supply of Militia Suits to zerg at you >: D Maybe I'll die more often than I win, but if I win, it's because I had more skill, or got lucky and caught you with your pants down. And if I die it costs me nothing. If you die, it cost you money. And you died helping contribute to the continuing existence of this game, as did all those who buy Aurum.

That said... if the Aurum was purely limited so that it either gave people shinier stuff or got access to stuff sooner, so that everyone was on a level statistical playing field given enough time, then perhaps that would be better, and if CCP could make it so, and if it were a viable financial model that helped the continuing existence of this game, then I'd definitely be all for it.

Addendum

If what is said about the Aurum Items becoming available for ISK, then that does remove the final 'Play To Win' definition as the Aurum items will be available for ISK

The players that have all AUR gear should have a shiny purple text spelling "AUR" over their heads on the battlefield. This way, the amount of people going after them would counteract their overpowered gear.

Edit: They should have the ability to be team killed.

Would you prefer monthly subscriptions or one time payments over F2P?

At the end of the day players still have to battle it out using player skill, and no battlefield AUR items are designed to out class the ISK items.

DUST is F2P and when the player market place comes along, those who purchase AUR will be able to sell AUR items to players for ISK. So in essence even F2P players can obtain AUR items if they're good enough to earn the ISK, much like those EVE players who play for free by buying PLEX (Game Time) for ISK from other players.

haha wow, nice one this whole thread is about how aurum items are better then isk items where did you get they are worse haha.

oh and it will happen, alot of people are going to try to find ways to convert real money to isk and this will be one of the ways to do it, so I garentee this will happen.