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![[Veteran_Bob Deorum]](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png "[Veteran_Bob Deorum]")
[Veteran_Bob Deorum]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 18:27:00 -
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The arum system is really pissing me off. I thought CCP was saying they did not want you to be able to buy anything with arum that will allow you to have an unfair advantage over the non aurum players???
This is differently not the case atm. Take for example the shield extenders for drop suits. The best one (going off memory) is 66 hp and takes 60 something CPU. ThatGÇÖs cool so is there a better one? Yes there is for 4 aurum you can get a 66 hp one that only takes 34 CPU??? How is this not an unfair advantage, so basically if I pay from my suit I can fit two extenders on my suit, however though if I use only isk then I cannot fit two. There is no isk equivalent to the 66 hp 34 CPU shield extender, and on top of this you have to have shield upgrades 5. So to fit my high level scout suit I have to buy aurum to get the fit I want and there is absolutely no way to fit it without aurum. This is bull **** and it is 100% Pay to win. So what happen to at E3 CCP saying this would never happen or be a problem when they are doing it right in front of our faces??
And please please, before you say there are isk equivalents to all in game items make sure you check because there is not. I can only think of the shield extender as one but the shield recharger also is one, and I am sure there are many others.
This is only one example but there are many many more just like it, just because you pay for it should have nothing to do with giving you less cpu and PG, I think something should done before both CCP and dust 514 gets a bad name. Just the other day I read a article that stated that it will cost the average player .24 cents per suit and that you lose the suit ever game, and they are right if you can only fit that suit with arum stuff because the power grid/CPU on the "isk equivalent" is in fact far from being equivalent and impossible to fit it. Now this article is very misleading because it did not state that you can also get suits from isk, but with the way the aurum is setup in game this is not really the true either. This is going to seem like to the average gamer that even though the game is free, it costs money to use equipment in the game?? And even though this is not true and that there are manyGÇ¥ isk equivalentsGÇ¥ which are not in fact equivalents most news sources are not going to care about that. So being able to say that there really is no advantage to using real money is going to be a key selling factor to the average gamer.
Now I understand that CCP has to make money and that is not a problem but stick with the boosters, skill bombs or spikes or whatever they are. I love these and think it s a wonderful idea that should be fully utilized. And I will spend all my aurum on these boosters.
So in conclusion please make it so there really is isk equivalent versions of everything on the market, make it cost like 50k each I do not care but do not **** on the guy that does not want to spend money on equipment because he knows he will just die in the next battle and cost him real money as opposed to time.
Discuss/comment/Fame away.
P.S I hope ccp is also not using the beta a sign of how much people will use aurum to buy weapons equipment. I know that I will get my aurum back so atm I am spending it on everything and I am sure a lot of others have the same/similar mindset. Just hoping that CCP does not use it as a motivation to keep doing what they are doing with the aurum system, and I would like to go to the eve system with it being 100% cosmetic based system but I realize with a free to play game that is a bad idea. |
[Veteran_SILENTSAM 69]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 18:35:00 -
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None of this will matter when the market opens up and all items you can buy with AUR can be sold by players for ISK.
Then you will be able to buy all things with ISK and have no more reason to complain. |
[Veteran_Bob Deorum]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 18:37:00 -
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SILENTSAM 69 wrote:None of this will matter when the market opens up and all items you can buy with AUR can be sold by players for ISK.
Then you will be able to buy all things with ISK and have no more reason to complain.
yes but no where has this been confirmed, yes there will be a open market but it does not state you can exchange aurum equipment in it, unless you have a link if so then I will walk away and be content with that. however if you cannot exchange aurum equipment this is a major issue.
P.S for example eve online has no such system in it to exchange aurum items between players so what makes you think dust will??? inside info? dev told you?
Edit: sorry did not no eve has a system will not delete so people can see but no need to prove me wrong i stand corrected hahah |
[Veteran_Alliria Seedspawns]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 18:38:00 -
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Train your engineering and electronics skills to lower your PG and CPU requirements and calm down. Just because you have one less tank mod doesn't mean you lost. Upgrade your damage output or aim better than the other player. |
[Veteran_Bob Deorum]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 18:40:00 -
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Alliria Seedspawns wrote:Train your engineering and electronics skills to lower your PG and CPU requirements and calm down. Just because you have one less tank mod doesn't mean you lost. Upgrade your damage output or aim better than the other player.
they are both maxed out, and it makes 0% difference on the subject, you are talking a difference of 30 cpu between the aurum stuff and the isk stuff, that is will over 25% of the cpu on a suit. so skills are going to have little to do with it. |
[Veteran_Templar Two]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 18:45:00 -
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Arum should be used only for aesthetics, and non gameplay related content.
Want a skin for the Assault Rifle, then buy it with Arum.
Want a new/different looking HUD, buy it with Arum.
Want better shield: use isk. |
[Veteran_Milk Supreme]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 18:46:00 -
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I don't think it's as big of a problem as people make it out to be
But it does make me uneasy knowing there are modules that ARE better than the highest tier ISK buyable ones that must be purchased via Aurum.
Whether this remains, is still to be seen.
If I had it my way, Aurum would be vanity items only, but CCP can't live on just that for DUST unfortunately |
[Veteran_Alliria Seedspawns]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 18:50:00 -
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There has to be an advantage to the Aurum items or else nobody will buy them and CCP will make no money. It needs to have a benefit without over doing it, and I think lower PG and CPU requirements are just fine. |
[Veteran_Jason Sera]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 19:13:00 -
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Alliria Seedspawns wrote:There has to be an advantage to the Aurum items or else nobody will buy them and CCP will make no money. It needs to have a benefit without over doing it, and I think lower PG and CPU requirements are just fine.
It's a really slippery slope isn't it? The ability to use 2 shield extenders instead of one can be construed by some as "pay to win" by some people and "no big deal" to others. CCP has to make money somehow. As long as the advantage can be over come with something you can by with '"isk" then I suppose it's ok. I am beginning to think I might rather pay a retail price though instead of worrying about these micro-transactions that could, if they are not careful enough, imbalance the game and drive a lot of people away....I am sure they'll figure it out though, otherwise how could a rabid EVE Online community exist for 8+ years and continue to grow. |
[Veteran_GM Unicorn]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 19:41:00 -
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DUST 514 is not Pay 2 Win. If you check the AUR items' stats you'll see that generally an AUR item is at the same level of an ISK one but with fewer requirements or a little more optimized. Someone dressed in full-AUR dropsuit, with full AUR modules and weapons won't be a one man army. At all. There is no GÇ£AUR AutoaimGÇ¥ or GÇ£AUR Invulnerability ShieldGÇ¥.
We don't like the Pay 2 Win idea at all. There are a lot of games (or "games"...) out there with this mechanism and IGÇÖm talking about videogames, card games, board games as well.
We want something new, something fun, something nice.
We are gamers on the first place, like everyone in this community and we are very intresting in reading opinions and feedback from you guys. We really trust in this game, believe me.
Will it be a success? You'll decide.
tl;dr version:
AUR items != faceroll 2 win |
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[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 19:49:00 -
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Bob Deorum wrote:SILENTSAM 69 wrote:None of this will matter when the market opens up and all items you can buy with AUR can be sold by players for ISK.
Then you will be able to buy all things with ISK and have no more reason to complain. yes but no where has this been confirmed, yes there will be a open market but it does not state you can exchange aurum equipment in it, unless you have a link if so then I will walk away and be content with that. however if you cannot exchange aurum equipment this is a major issue. P.S for example eve online has no such system in it to exchange aurum items between players so what makes you think dust will??? inside info? dev told you?
any items u buy will be put up for sale for ISK via the player market by players
just like in EVE where ppl buy PLEX and sell for ISK |
[Veteran_SuperMido]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 19:51:00 -
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GM Unicorn wrote:DUST 514 is not Pay 2 Win. If you check the AUR items' stats you'll see that generally an AUR item is at the same level of an ISK one but with fewer requirements or a little more optimized. Someone dressed in full-AUR dropsuit, with full AUR modules and weapons won't be a one man army. At all. There is no GÇ£AUR AutoaimGÇ¥ or GÇ£AUR Invulnerability ShieldGÇ¥.
We don't like the Pay 2 Win idea at all. There are a lot of games (or "games"...) out there with this mechanism and IGÇÖm talking about videogames, card games, board games as well.
We want something new, something fun, something nice.
We are gamers on the first place, like everyone in this community and we are very intresting in reading opinions and feedback from you guys. We really trust in this game, believe me.
Will it be a success? You'll decide.
tl;dr version:
AUR items != faceroll 2 win
There you go, EXACTLY that. I noticed even some AUR items have disadvantages, here's the best example; the AUR Prototype Assault Suits have only 1 equipment slot, while the ISK variant has 2.
The game is TOTALLY not pay 2 win, I've been playing it for exactly 2 months now, I bought one $10 AUR pack like a month ago, and still struggling on how or what I can spend the money on. EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING has an ISK variant, with the exception of the AUR booster packs which give a slight advantage.
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[Veteran_Kain Spero]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 19:55:00 -
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Bob Deorum wrote:
P.S for example eve online has no such system in it to exchange aurum items between players so what makes you think dust will??? inside info? dev told you?
Actually you can freely trade Eve Aurum items on the player market for ISK with other players. |
[Veteran_Rex Manhunter]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 20:00:00 -
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Honestly what I was expecting when I heard about the microtransactions was that you could buy literally anything in the game with AUR, but you could also get everything with ISK. But some things would cost so much that you would never be able to afford them all with ISK, so that would be your incentive to buy items with AUR. I would prefer that system because it allows you to get everything with ISK if you try hard enough and play well enough |
[Veteran_Kain Spero]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 20:05:00 -
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Again, once the player market goes live you WILL be able to buy Aurum items with ISK unless CCP does a massive departure from how the market currently works in Eve. |
[Veteran_Nellantar Ballsinya]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 20:06:00 -
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GM Unicorn is and always will be my hero. How do I get a job being a GM's best friend? |
[Veteran_Sha Kharn Clone]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 20:34:00 -
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Nellantar Ballsinya wrote:GM Unicorn is and always will be my hero. How do I get a job being a GM's best friend?
Think you need to be a brony or a little dragon like spike. |
[Veteran_Orin Fenris]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 20:52:00 -
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There are skills out there that reduce PG/CPU requirements for most, if not all fittings. The only real benefit to the AUR things is they allow you to use them a little a earlier, and fit your suit a little better.
That being said, your entire argument is pointless because I can, with MILITIA GEAR (or maybe one step up), take out a HEAVY in full AUR/Prototype gear. It just takes skill, and being in the right place at the right time. I've taken on 40-50k ISK prototype suits with my 15k suit and won. I have no doubt that if I were to use my prototype suit vs. someone using AUR, it would be a evenly matched fight. Who wins is based purely on skill, not because he spent money and I didn't.
Skills > AUR gear. and I'm not just talking gun game, I'm talking actual in-game skills that increase damage, reduce recoil, decrease reload times, and make your suit much better.
Calling DUST Pay to Win is like calling EVE a Farmville knock-off. |
[Veteran_Beers O'Malley]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 20:53:00 -
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There is no such thing in dust (as with eve) where it is pay to win.
Dust will have what eve has in plex, which is cash vs effort. I could run missions for hours and earn 450 mill isk or I could spend my cash and buy plex and sell it for 450 mill.
As long as no gold ammo shows up like in world of tanks I think dust will be fine. Dust is a long term venture/investment for ccp and not some get rich quick scheme to pay for itself at release
I plan to take advantage of the Aur items myself
I like the +50% skill point earning items that I can buy with aur aka cash, which I will be doing. Not because I plan to play 12 hours a day and want to be first to 50 million skill points but because I work 50 hours a week and hope to get 10 hours of dust/eve in a week max
Hell I am willing to pay double for a 100% increase (hear me ccp I am willing to hook my debt card up to the aur train)  |
[Veteran_Ceerix MKII]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 20:59:00 -
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Most the AUR items that I have looked at have less fitting skills required and might be slightly better. But I never saw that huge a gap on fitting requirements. I almost rather see that AUR items just have no fitting skills required but are still equivalent to ISK items at the same level. That would allow a player to use prototype suits from day 1 if they wanted. But a player that only uses ISK is able to get the same gear just later down the road. Then have all the skins available for people that want to buy them, such as quaff brand drop suits or something. |
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[Veteran_Fivetimes Infinity]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 21:00:00 -
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One of the first things I did when I started playing Dust was check the market. If you look at the AUR items, they really aren't all that impressive. I honestly thought they'd have substantial bonuses over regular gear, but they're pretty similar to the existing weapons/suits/etc. And anyway, I don't imagine seeing people in full AUR outfits will be a thing outside of corp wars (where I imagine it will be required). |
[Veteran_DemonicChaos]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 21:07:00 -
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Just because you might be able to fit a bit better with aur items doesn't make it pay to win looking at market most aur items have a isk version usually with higher skill requirements What I'd really like right now is a boost to passive sp gain would really help since I can't play much and is dt from mon-thurs |
[Veteran_Legendary Ecko]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 21:11:00 -
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Orin Fenris wrote:There are skills out there that reduce PG/CPU requirements for most, if not all fittings. The only real benefit to the AUR things is they allow you to use them a little a earlier, and fit your suit a little better.
That being said, your entire argument is pointless because I can, with MILITIA GEAR (or maybe one step up), take out a HEAVY in full AUR/Prototype gear. It just takes skill, and being in the right place at the right time. I've taken on 40-50k ISK prototype suits with my 15k suit and won. I have no doubt that if I were to use my prototype suit vs. someone using AUR, it would be a evenly matched fight. Who wins is based purely on skill, not because he spent money and I didn't.
Skills > AUR gear. and I'm not just talking gun game, I'm talking actual in-game skills that increase damage, reduce recoil, decrease reload times, and make your suit much better.
Calling DUST Pay to Win is like calling EVE a Farmville knock-off.
I agree with you. Kittens like you are the reason I'm running out of ISK as 3-4 Militias take me down in my Assault Prototype Fully Loaded SMG suit. I'm guessing OP hasn't used Prototype suits yet. Because you won't worry about others as your own customized suit gets wiped out. I'm beginning to get more careful as I get better stuff.
Also, anyone can take down an AUR guy. Not too hard. Skill (not Skills) is what wins in the end. |
[Veteran_Michael Rayne]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 21:15:00 -
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Yup, pretty much plain old ignorance coming from this guy. Take a good look at the GM response, and the response of those of us actually playing the game. You've got no clue what you're talking about, this game isn't P-2-W by any stretch of the imagination, and to say it is means you have not actually researched your complaints. |
[Veteran_Ventis Gant]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 21:38:00 -
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One of the biggest issues right now with the fitting differences between top level AUR gear and proto gear is that the weapon upgrade skills that reduce weapon CPU usage don't work right now...and these skills have two levels. The first level is a 5% reduction per level, for a 25% reduction, and I haven't looked at the second level in awhile, but I would figure it is at least 3% per level, if not also 5%, for somewhere between a 40% and 50% decrease in CPU for a weapon...now, the proto sniper rifle uses 93 CPU and I don't know how much PG. The top level AUR one uses something in the low 50s, IIRC, or probably very near the CPU usage of a max light weapon upgrade skilled proto sniper. Obviously, if you have these skills maxed, they benefit the AUR item as well, but less so, as you can ALREADY fit the preferred mods. I believe (and hope) that when these skills work correctly, that fits that can only be made with AUR right now can be done with maxed fitting skills on proto gear. |
[Veteran_Korrin Palentes]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 21:41:00 -
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Sha Kharn Clone wrote:Nellantar Ballsinya wrote:GM Unicorn is and always will be my hero. How do I get a job being a GM's best friend? Think you need to be a brony or a little dragon like spike.
Bronies unite! |
[Veteran_GM Unicorn]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 21:41:00 -
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Orin Fenris wrote:[...]
Calling DUST Pay to Win is like calling EVE a Farmville knock-off.
You won my internetz |
[Veteran_King of Fools]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 22:02:00 -
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Bob Deorum wrote:SILENTSAM 69 wrote:None of this will matter when the market opens up and all items you can buy with AUR can be sold by players for ISK.
Then you will be able to buy all things with ISK and have no more reason to complain. yes but no where has this been confirmed, yes there will be a open market but it does not state you can exchange aurum equipment in it, unless you have a link if so then I will walk away and be content with that. however if you cannot exchange aurum equipment this is a major issue. P.S for example eve online has no such system in it to exchange aurum items between players so what makes you think dust will??? inside info? dev told you?
Um - old interviews. EVE does in fact have a number of systems to exchange premium items - for example, PLEX. You can buy and sell those all you want. There's also all the faction point items - sure, it's not RMT, but the fact of the matter is not everyone has 8000 faction points laying around to buy that fancy Lv5 implant.
Besides, like I said before, in an older interview while the game was still mostly under wraps, they made it pretty clear that aurum items would be exchangeable between players. Unless they changed their mind in the last eight months (which they usually don't) I don't see this being a problem. |
[Veteran_JAG]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 22:15:00 -
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Beers O'Malley wrote:Hell I am willing to pay double for a 100% increase (hear me ccp I am willing to hook my debt card up to the aur train)
Amen to that! CCP we need this for the poor schmo's that have jobs.. a 50% boost isn't going to cut it when the kiddies are playing 16 hours a day. Actually, maybe it will if you plan to implement "diminishing" returns SP penalty. I still think the kids will rage at that though.. |
[Veteran_Gene Dravon]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 22:26:00 -
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OMG 30 LESS CPU FOR A AUR ITEM OH MY GAWWWWD THEY'LL BE ABLE TO FIT LIKE, A SLIGHTLY BETTER MOD NOW WITH ALL THAT CPUUUUUUU
*facepalm*
Come on people, really? Are you REALLY getting that worked up for such a minimal advantage? Of course the AUR items will have a slight advantage, otherwise no one would buy them. Are you seriously sitting here bitching about a free game? Shame on you.
Not only will you be able to buy AUR items from other players with ISK, which completely negates your argument, but the "advantages" AUR Items gives are so minimal its honestly kind of pathetic. And don't go off on a rant about "OMG YOU DONT KNOW FOR SURE ThAT YOU'LL BE ABLE TO BUY ITEMS WITH ISK! OH MY GAAWWWD" Like really, shut it, many of us are EVE players and know very well how the market systems work.
Really getting sick of people throwing a hissy fit over such stupidly small issues. |
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