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![[Veteran_Forlorn]](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png "[Veteran_Forlorn]")
[Veteran_Forlorn]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 22:52:00 -
[31] - Quote
Bob Deorum wrote:SILENTSAM 69 wrote:None of this will matter when the market opens up and all items you can buy with AUR can be sold by players for ISK.
Then you will be able to buy all things with ISK and have no more reason to complain. yes but no where has this been confirmed, yes there will be a open market but it does not state you can exchange aurum equipment in it, unless you have a link if so then I will walk away and be content with that. however if you cannot exchange aurum equipment this is a major issue. P.S for example eve online has no such system in it to exchange aurum items between players so what makes you think dust will??? inside info? dev told you?
Your PS statement about Eve is untrue. Items purchased with Aurum can be sold on the open market for ISK. As for the others, I've read in several devblogs that this will also be true in Eve. I would also suggest checking the numbers - I suspect the difference isn't nearly as dramatic as what the original poster claims from "memory". I could be wrong, but regardless I suggest looking when the server is back up and posting exact numbers and not what you "remember" you "might have seen". If memory were perfect, my first car was really damn awesome. |
[Veteran_Soven Taliesyn]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 22:55:00 -
[32] - Quote
SILENTSAM 69 wrote:P.S for example eve online has no such system in it to exchange aurum items between players so what makes you think dust will??? inside info? dev told you?
I laughed hard when I read that |
[Veteran_Gene Dravon]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 23:00:00 -
[33] - Quote
Soven Taliesyn wrote:SILENTSAM 69 wrote:P.S for example eve online has no such system in it to exchange aurum items between players so what makes you think dust will??? inside info? dev told you? I laughed hard when I read that
Pretty much. Here let me take a look on the EVE Market
"Men's Sterling Dress Shirt (navy)" for 2000 AUR in the NEX store
"Men's Sterling Dress Shirt (navy)" for 27,250,00 ISK on the Metropolis Market
Yeah, CLEARLY there is no way to convert AUR item into ISK -___-
Gotta love when people have no clue what they're talking about. |
[Veteran_Bob Deorum]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 23:58:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ya first off sorry guys I am not saying that dust is pay to win I am jsut saying I really really do not want it that way, and I agree it is not atm but I think that it is crossing the lines with some stuff.
Also sorry about my comment on the no way to convert aurum and isk on eve , i have never used it and was not aware of that. so I guess I will just rest my case because no one seems to like the ideas i put up hahaha.
Alliria Seedspawns wrote:There has to be an advantage to the Aurum items or else nobody will buy them and CCP will make no money. It needs to have a benefit without over doing it, and I think lower PG and CPU requirements are just fine.
ya but I think boosters works really well for this, plus most items require less skills which i do not like but I can live with, but the lower CPU and Power grid is to much
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:One of the first things I did when I started playing Dust was check the market. If you look at the AUR items, they really aren't all that impressive. I honestly thought they'd have substantial bonuses over regular gear, but they're pretty similar to the existing weapons/suits/etc. And anyway, I don't imagine seeing people in full AUR outfits will be a thing outside of corp wars (where I imagine it will be required).
How is 90 CPU vs 60 CPU not a big difference? or 65 CPU vs 34 CPU? That seems like a large difference to me. look at the shield extenders and the shield recharger once the server comes back up.
I guess there is a valid point that the weapon upgrades skills are not working which is really making it hard to fit items atm.
and oh btw I know for a fact anyone in a pimped suit can get killed because I have kill lots of people in prototype gear before. but this really is not the point I was getting at. |
[Veteran_Gene Dravon]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 00:10:00 -
[35] - Quote
The point being, how much more can you really equip with those additional resources? Honestly I can't comment directly on that since I dont use AUR items, but whenever I say "God I wish I had more CPU" its so I can use some better module that's going to gain me like 2% for defenses. I guess if someone wants to pay for 2% more of something....sure, thats an "unfair"advantage that I personally don't care about. Chances are people are using AUR gear against you and you don't even know half the time because whatever advantage they get could be so minimal its practically nonexistent. |
[Veteran_Bob Deorum]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 00:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
well in my example, it is the difference between a 25% shield recharger or a 42% shield recharger and I 66 hp extender or two, which does not sound like much but it really is when you are in a scout suit. |
[Veteran_Gene Dravon]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 00:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
And again, since all AUR items will ultimately be available to buy with ISK from other players, this really isn't an issue anyways. |
[Veteran_Bob Deorum]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 00:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
yup it that is the case then you are right, but again has not been confirmed :( if it was I would shut up and go away hahaha |
[Veteran_Legendary Ecko]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 00:53:00 -
[39] - Quote
It's okay, we all make mistakes. |
[Veteran_Gene Dravon]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 00:56:00 -
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Bob Deorum wrote:yup it that is the case then you are right, but again has not been confirmed :( if it was I would shut up and go away hahaha
Nah i dont mean to make you feel bad, just trying to ease your concerns!  |
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[Veteran_Milk Supreme]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 02:48:00 -
[41] - Quote
Also don't forget that these bought items can be destroyed in a whim if in the wrong place at the wrong time |
[Veteran_Arctus Intransigent]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 04:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
Can someone please tell me how to win DUST? |
[Veteran_Gene Dravon]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 05:42:00 -
[43] - Quote
Arctus Intransigent wrote:Can someone please tell me how to win DUST?
Do laps around the couch in the Merc Quarters. When you reach a pre-set number of laps, a value only known by CCP, you will have officially beaten Dust514. |
[Veteran_Druk Spyker]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 08:13:00 -
[44] - Quote
Gene Dravon wrote:"Men's Sterling Dress Shirt (navy)" for 27,250,00 ISK on the Metropolis Market.
Think you missed a zero there. Otherwise I'm off to buy it right NOW. So I can resell it for 25 000 000 ISK.
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[Veteran_Duster Boskonovitch]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 09:19:00 -
[45] - Quote
AURUM stuff is a mistake in Dust514.
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[Veteran_Ignatius Crumwald]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 11:24:00 -
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Milk Supreme wrote:Also don't forget that these bought items can be destroyed in a whim if in the wrong place at the wrong time
Yeah but in terms of having a slight edge between equally matched players, the way it's set up now it is sort of pay to win.
I've said this a few times, but in the replication build it is possible to get the shields of a protoheavy to over 350 with two +5 reppers and all proto weaponry - more than enough to carry you through most 1v1 engagements with the average infantry without taking any armor damage.
This is only possible using AUR purchased equipment. You will win every engagement against an equally skilled heavy without AUR gear 99 out of 100 times - This needs ironing out, not willful ignorance to the facts. |
[Veteran_iwillrock yourworld]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 12:06:00 -
[47] - Quote
I dont think its pay to win, skill must be accounted too and if the guy sucks he will suck in AUR suits too.
anyway, this is the busines model CCP chosed and its too late to look back.
Like we say in EVE: deal with it. |
[Veteran_Bob Deorum]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 13:23:00 -
[48] - Quote
iwillrock yourworld wrote:I dont think its pay to win, skill must be accounted too and if the guy sucks he will suck in AUR suits too.
Ever one seems to say that oh well if you have skill you can beat someone in all AUR gear, and if he sucks out of aurum gear he will suck in it, but my point is what if the person in AUR gear is really good? Then it is potentially overpowered. And not only will he have gun game but he will also have some serious firepower and defense to.
iwillrock yourworld wrote:
Like we say in EVE: deal with it.
And again this has nothing to do with eve because (I think haha) nothing aurum related in eve has to do with combat so it all tends to be cosmetic related.
iwillrock yourworld wrote:
anyway, this is the busines model CCP chosed and its too late to look back.
ItGÇÖs never too late with CCP thatGÇÖs why I love them so much and play their games.
Anyway my point is that I love dust so far but CCP is walking a very thin line with their current setup and I am just afraid that it could be interpreted as pay to win by the media and if that is the case it will destroy CCP's reputation and it will destroy this game. Like I said in the beginning the average FPS console gamer is going to look at the .24 cents a death and not care about anything else. But if you can truly say there are isk equivalents then it will make no difference. And I am sorry but currently isk equivalents are non existence in dust, when the power grid and CPU are different they are by no means equivalents.
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[Veteran_Dewie Cheecham]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
Sniper rifles, proto type levels have an AUR model that uses about half the CPU/PG than its ISK counterpart, there are NO alternatives.
That is Pay to Win. |
[Veteran_Dewie Cheecham]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:13:00 -
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GM Unicorn wrote:DUST 514 is not Pay 2 Win. If you check the AUR items' stats you'll see that generally an AUR item is at the same level of an ISK one but with fewer requirements or a little more optimized.
THAT IS THE (ADULT EXPLETIVE) DEFINITION OF PAY TO WIN! |
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[Veteran_Bob Deorum]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:16:00 -
[51] - Quote
ya I agree I do not see how people can say oh there are isk equivalent, and then in the next sentence say that oh they are the same but with less power-grid and CPU requirements?? how is that equivalent? |
[Veteran_Dewie Cheecham]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:19:00 -
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Bob Deorum wrote:ya I agree I do not see how people can say oh there are isk equivalent, and then in the next sentence say that oh they are the same but with less power-grid and CPU requirements?? how is that equivalent?
But definitions seem to be a problem for some.
I just don't understand why that is. If you can use real money to get something that will give you any advantage, however minor, which is not available for non-real money purchase, it is PAY TO WIN. |
[Veteran_GM Unicorn]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:21:00 -
[53] - Quote
No. Pay 2 Win means that you are forced to buy stuff with real money in order to progress. You are not forced in DUST 514. |
[Veteran_Dewie Cheecham]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:22:00 -
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GM Unicorn wrote:No. Pay 2 Win means that you are forced to buy stuff with real money in order to progress. You are not forced in DUST 514.
No. Sorry, but no. That is the definition for "Subscription"
Pay to Win IS that you can get an advantage by paying for it. |
[Veteran_Bob Deorum]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:33:00 -
[55] - Quote
ya I would have to agree with Dewie Cheecham, if you are forced to pay then it is a subscription, how ever if you are not forced to pay but you can pay and it will give you an advantage over others then it is pay to win. |
[Veteran_GM Unicorn]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:36:00 -
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Dewie Cheecham wrote:GM Unicorn wrote:No. Pay 2 Win means that you are forced to buy stuff with real money in order to progress. You are not forced in DUST 514. No. Sorry, but no. That is the definition for "Subscription" Pay to Win IS that you can get an advantage by paying for it.
Agree to disagree. There are some Free 2 Play game, especially the social network's ones, that force you to chip in or alienate 100 friends or more in order to progress. I consider that Pay 2 Win.
Is my definition wrong? Probably, I'm not perfect and having a GM tag under my name is kinda "against me" since everyone is inclined to think that I have someone from CCP arm-locking me while I'm posting, saying "go on, say that!". Sorry but this is not the truth. I'm 100% honest with you guys about this topic, I'm not following any script because I'm a gamer as well and I don't like to lose because my bank account is lower than yours.
Again, you are free to believe me. You are in a beta now, a closed one. We are expecting any kind of feedback from you guys. Play the game, give us any feedback. ANY . We are listening to you and last year, from an EVE side, was a proof.
If after that you'll find the game not nice at all...well, it was a blast, see you around in another one. We don't ask you for any money in order to fully enjoy it, so you did not waste a cent. |
[Veteran_Dewie Cheecham]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:39:00 -
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GM Unicorn wrote:If after that you'll find the game not nice at all...well, it was a blast, see you around in another one. We don't ask you for any money in order to fully enjoy it, so you did not waste a cent.
The problem is not so much that CCP is trying to sneak in Pay to Win. It is that they promised us they would not.
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[Veteran_briyan jenkins]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:41:00 -
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Ignatius Crumwald wrote:Milk Supreme wrote:Also don't forget that these bought items can be destroyed in a whim if in the wrong place at the wrong time Yeah but in terms of having a slight edge between equally matched players, the way it's set up now it is sort of pay to win. I've said this a few times, but in the replication build it is possible to get the shields of a protoheavy to over 350 with two +5 reppers and all proto weaponry - more than enough to carry you through most 1v1 engagements with the average infantry without taking any armor damage. This is only possible using AUR purchased equipment. You will win every engagement against an equally skilled heavy without AUR gear 99 out of 100 times - This needs ironing out, not willful ignorance to the facts.
What part of all gear aur and ISK are equal don't you guys get , and idk if you fogot it's a beta stop making assumptions on a early version |
[Veteran_GM Unicorn]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:43:00 -
[59] - Quote
Dewie Cheecham wrote:GM Unicorn wrote:If after that you'll find the game not nice at all...well, it was a blast, see you around in another one. We don't ask you for any money in order to fully enjoy it, so you did not waste a cent. The problem is not so much that CCP is trying to sneak in Pay to Win. It is that they promised us they would not.
This is your opinion and I respect that. Since there is someone else in this topic that has a different one, I don't see a problem but just a discussion.
If the problem arises we'll fix it. Trust me if you can. |
[Veteran_Dewie Cheecham]
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:46:00 -
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briyan jenkins wrote:What part of all gear aur and ISK are equal don't you guys get , and idk if you fogot it's a beta stop making assumptions on a early version
What part of AUR and ISK items are NOT equal don't you get?
It IS a beta, but it is also showing the intention of CCP, else it would NOT be here.
Just to repeat, again. some AUR items have a dramatically lower CPU/PG demands (30-50% lower), and/or somewhat higher stats for DPS/Shield/range etc. (5-10% is not minor btw)
THAT IS NOT EQUAL! |
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