honestly its no different then character trading so i dont see why there so up[est about it

As a nine year Eve veteran, it is different than character trading. Character trading has permanent investments of skills that creates a specialized path for the character, be it a Super pilot, trader, etc. This whole SP Transfer conundrum is nebulous, vague, and boils over with issues for abuse. There is nothing to stop a player from throwing money at their problems and buying SP Transfers with which to apply to their main character.

Eve Online is all about the decisions and choices we make having an impact. The butterfly effect. The minute little change that causes giant changes in the future. If you have a player that creates a character, throws however much money at CCP, and then can suddenly fly Titans, it fundamnetally devalues those choices and decisions (if any). Further more, it takes away almost completely the core concept of specialization. If you can just buy SP Transfer packs and fly whatever you want, is that specialization or generalization? Is there even a point to having skills for any reason other than to be a barrier between paying players and non-paying players?

The RMT potential of a move like this is disgusting and stupid.

Aeon lay off the doom and gloom scare tactics. SP is still being treated as a scarce player created resource and has diminishing returns when extracted and applied to high and high sp characters. When that stops being the case, then we can freak out. Until then, you are standing in the way of positive progress.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/156e2QWHKguiwQod9FAl1IpBEqcF8hwPC_msCFYK-WUA/edit

I have always made a hobby of recruiting people into EVE. I am very passionate about it, so tolerating me for any real length of time generally requires you to know enough about EVE to have a) heard about it to any length you desire and b) gotten a trial account and anything you want and personally lead through the game if you so desire (I am a bit over-zealous I am afraid). However, thanks to this and my love for newbies in general, I have kept a pretty good pulse on why people quit the game, and what I have found is very large percent of players quit because they want to advance faster, are willing to pay for it, but donGÇÖt want to give up their identity.

We arenGÇÖt talking about huge claims for power either, some people would be willing to pay the price of a game (50 bucks) to buy enough SP to get started. A few million SP to allocate to ensure you can at least pull your weight with your buddy, nothing wrong with that. The problem they all run into is that buying a character on the market is too impersonal for these people. They are not attached to the game yet. Their whole attachment is their character. The first thing they did was painstakingly chose a race, bloodline, school, and sculpted every contour of their skeleton until it was perfect. Now, drop him, pay 50 bucks and buy xXMOMhumperSS from the market. I know he has corp history that is suspicious, but that is why he is so cheap. And that is when you lost them.

This change allows those wish to invest in their own identity a chance to compete with those who couldnGÇÖt care. The pricing will be prohibitive to make a profit off the system, the price of aurum can dictate the value of the product vs. PLEX, and they will ensure you cannot sell your SP for greater than the cost to have an account long enough to earn that SP.

i did the math behind, and as someone who has a long standing hate from day one for skill respec's and booster stacking in dust. It's hard for me to even be mad about this EVE update.

Unless i am misunderstanding something you can get SP instantly, but it will be 10% of the SP you would get from training and waiting the 1 month, at 110% of the cost(at minimum)

Because inorder to extract the SP from one character you will have to use a character services item which i am assuming will cost one plex. so that is a base price for this service, plus whatever the person selling it will want to charge. At 5-50mil you get 20% of a month long train instantly for more than a monthly cost of a subscription. At 50-80mil you only get 10% at 80+ mil you get like 2%?

Unless i am misunderstanding something you can get SP instantly, but it will be 10% of the SP you would get from training and waiting the 1 month, at 110% of the cost(at minimum)

EVE??? Who gives a ****, stop talking about that piece of **** game in these forums. Anyone who has been playing that game for 9 years is blatantly a ******** that should have been aborted at birth.

I do imagine CCP is going to put a small time cap on extracting SP, otherwise you might run into the issue of hacked accounts getting their skillpoints transferred off en-mass. A mechanic like the existing biomass timer would assist here.

@Aeon
Eve and Dust are very social meta driven games. You hardly have to pay a dime on things if your ability to talk or coerce people out of their ISK is leveled up far enough. Awarding that kind of social craft behavior by letting players purchase organs to finely craft the power of their main (or cannibalize skill points to extend social influence through the market, corp recruitment, etc) feels very much in line with the core principals established in New Eden.

Age-gating through the current system of 'pay CCP monthly for the privilege to log-in and update your skill queue, then log out, over a period of a decade' seems hardly conducive to encouraging gameplay with newbs or vets.

Paying for a character through the bazaar arguably leads to other issues, from the point of view of new playes.

I usually have agreement with Jadek but not this time (I know, just selling the illusion that we are not the same person.)

I believe it was FanFest 2014 where Hilmar spoke that the original idea of EVE was to just have a game where you shoot people, stuff happens, and you go about like a typical MMO. The social aspect was something they were not prepared for. He goes into an anecdote about how he was programming the game and having to play the game in order to pay off a cruiser that he borrowed and got destroyed. EVE is a Facebook social style game that happens to not be run through a browser. I think we can both agree on that.

However, looking at the ability for a new player to "get a jump start" through the more dull parts of figuring out the game by utilizing someone's unwanted SP is what Jim Sterlin called "The Trap of Gamer Gratitude." This is obviously not the same thing as EVE is not a microtransaction type of game... but it is kind of starting to be. The main line that I have go for is the fact that "Oh, this will help with those slow moments so I can get into the REAL game!" CCP is selling the solution to the problem the game has had all along.

Aside from that, I am sad seeing EVE start going that way; "let's sell something to the players to make the fact that our game as this crippling flaw less obvious." It is one thing when it is in a Free to Play game: the cost of admission is being constantly attacked with "Do more, faster. Go beyond with Aurum."

Still, buying SP in EVE should not have been a thing. Of course, there is one key example in DUST that people were going on and on about "should never, ever be in the game" (I believe IWS even stated "over my dead body") only to have Respecs in the game as a paid option. Garrosh let us know.

Difference in style, really. I'm an old Eve vet. I like my traditions and I like the way the game has run for over a decade because that's part of the charm that made it. You don't, which is cool. I'm not chastizing you for it, I just don't think this change is in any way progressive and does more harm than good.

S'kinda like APEX BPOs, Warbarge Officer Gear, etc. Cash cows that are meant to be progressive for the average joe that wind up distorting core game design of risk/reward, etc. Call me a Dust 514 Conservative, just how I am. I don't think real life cash should ever find it's way in the in-game economy or skill point system. SKINs are cool, they don't hurt anything, but I'm a firm believer in the butterfly effect (a huge part of Eve/Dust, btw) and I'm a firm believer that even small gains like those from BPOs are enough to trigger hurricanes later.

EVE??? Who gives a ****, stop talking about that piece of **** game in these forums. Anyone who has been playing that game for 9 years is blatantly a ******** that should have been aborted at birth.

Kind of a bias (and a little rude) assertion, don't you think? Positive progress is subjective, always is and always will be. Your idea of positive progress is probably along the lines that it helps new players reach the point of veterans and can compete. My idea of positive progress is not allowing players who are rich IRL gain a competitive edge over players who may barely afford to pay the base subscription fee.

Pay-to-Win is a nebulous term with no clear definition that always seems to change and shift to fit new ideals that come along. Sometimes they get the community's support and sometimes, like what is going on with Eve Online currently, it starts a riot. When you have a greater majority of the community and the CSM saying, "No, this should not happen", it can generally be assumed that the feature is not in the interests of "positive progress" by the game's standard. I'd argue that if this were in the interests of positive progress, it would have been implemented the last two times that CCP tried it. Or at the very least, somewhere along the line of the decade-long span of time that Eve Online has been around.

Thor, the economy, having a death mean some thing, and the permanence of your choices were what made this game unique.

Efforts to make Dust more casual, and more like every other shooter on the market, just show up how subpar the core components of dust are. Why would you play a crappy performing lobby shooter for casuals when there are better playing options?

But hey, CCP wants to court the casuals while trying to hold on to the old whales, I'll have a good laugh as they burn this mother down.

As a nine year Eve veteran, it is different than character trading. Character trading has permanent investments of skills that creates a specialized path for the character, be it a Super pilot, trader, etc. This whole SP Transfer conundrum is nebulous, vague, and boils over with issues for abuse. There is nothing to stop a player from throwing money at their problems and buying SP Transfers with which to apply to their main character.

Eve Online is all about the decisions and choices we make having an impact. The butterfly effect. The minute little change that causes giant changes in the future. If you have a player that creates a character, throws however much money at CCP, and then can suddenly fly Titans, it fundamnetally devalues those choices and decisions (if any). Further more, it takes away almost completely the core concept of specialization. If you can just buy SP Transfer packs and fly whatever you want, is that specialization or generalization? Is there even a point to having skills for any reason other than to be a barrier between paying players and non-paying players?

Holy crap I just realized something else on this.

How many vets will forego a secondary training queue and instead perfectly spec their second and / or third slots for different roles to have a possible total of 3 perfect characters while only plexing 1 account?

"You can have multiple accounts logged in at the same time, but not multiple characters from the same account, so if your alt is on the same account you would need to create a new account and then transfer your alt to that account."

There's still value in multiple client play with manual input.

Yes I understand. I was thinking more in terms of hauler characters, PI characters, wormhole holders, possibly even market trader characters, and surely some thing I am missing which do not require being multi logged.

I fore see some alliances having quite a few shiny new Titan characters sitting around.