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Thor Odinson42
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
7
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Posted - 2015.10.17 21:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:
Unless i am misunderstanding something you can get SP instantly, but it will be 10% of the SP you would get from training and waiting the 1 month, at 110% of the cost(at minimum)
I do imagine CCP is going to put a small time cap on extracting SP, otherwise you might run into the issue of hacked accounts getting their skillpoints transferred off en-mass. A mechanic like the existing biomass timer would assist here.
Wow, so basically nobody is going to even use it.
Sounds about as practical as the DK market.
"Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing."
-Captain Obvious
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Thor Odinson42
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
7
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 01:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:I usually have agreement with Jadek but not this time (I know, just selling the illusion that we are not the same person.) I believe it was FanFest 2014 where Hilmar spoke that the original idea of EVE was to just have a game where you shoot people, stuff happens, and you go about like a typical MMO. The social aspect was something they were not prepared for. He goes into an anecdote about how he was programming the game and having to play the game in order to pay off a cruiser that he borrowed and got destroyed. EVE is a Facebook social style game that happens to not be run through a browser. I think we can both agree on that. However, looking at the ability for a new player to "get a jump start" through the more dull parts of figuring out the game by utilizing someone's unwanted SP is what Jim Sterlin called " The Trap of Gamer Gratitude." This is obviously not the same thing as EVE is not a microtransaction type of game... but it is kind of starting to be. The main line that I have go for is the fact that "Oh, this will help with those slow moments so I can get into the REAL game!" CCP is selling the solution to the problem the game has had all along. Aside from that, I am sad seeing EVE start going that way; "let's sell something to the players to make the fact that our game as this crippling flaw less obvious." It is one thing when it is in a Free to Play game: the cost of admission is being constantly attacked with "Do more, faster. Go beyond with Aurum." Still, buying SP in EVE should not have been a thing. Of course, there is one key example in DUST that people were going on and on about "should never, ever be in the game" (I believe IWS even stated "over my dead body") only to have Respecs in the game as a paid option. Garrosh let us know.
If the application of this system is the way it's explained here there's not going to be droves of new players dropping hundreds of dollars to get a few weeks head start on their skill queue.
It sounds like something that's pissing off veterans and will be ignored by it's target market.
"Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing."
-Captain Obvious
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Thor Odinson42
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
7
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 01:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:@Aeon Eve and Dust are very social meta driven games. You hardly have to pay a dime on things if your ability to talk or coerce people out of their ISK is leveled up far enough. Awarding that kind of social craft behavior by letting players purchase organs to finely craft the power of their main (or cannibalize skill points to extend social influence through the market, corp recruitment, etc) feels very much in line with the core principals established in New Eden. Age-gating through the current system of 'pay CCP monthly for the privilege to log-in and update your skill queue, then log out, over a period of a decade' seems hardly conducive to encouraging gameplay with newbs or vets. Paying for a character through the bazaar arguably leads to other issues, from the point of view of new playes. Ashterothi wrote:I have always made a hobby of recruiting people into EVE. I am very passionate about it, so tolerating me for any real length of time generally requires you to know enough about EVE to have a) heard about it to any length you desire and b) gotten a trial account and anything you want and personally lead through the game if you so desire (I am a bit over-zealous I am afraid). However, thanks to this and my love for newbies in general, I have kept a pretty good pulse on why people quit the game, and what I have found is very large percent of players quit because they want to advance faster, are willing to pay for it, but donGÇÖt want to give up their identity.
We arenGÇÖt talking about huge claims for power either, some people would be willing to pay the price of a game (50 bucks) to buy enough SP to get started. A few million SP to allocate to ensure you can at least pull your weight with your buddy, nothing wrong with that. The problem they all run into is that buying a character on the market is too impersonal for these people. They are not attached to the game yet. Their whole attachment is their character. The first thing they did was painstakingly chose a race, bloodline, school, and sculpted every contour of their skeleton until it was perfect. Now, drop him, pay 50 bucks and buy xXMOMhumperSS from the market. I know he has corp history that is suspicious, but that is why he is so cheap. And that is when you lost them.
This change allows those wish to invest in their own identity a chance to compete with those who couldnGÇÖt care. The pricing will be prohibitive to make a profit off the system, the price of aurum can dictate the value of the product vs. PLEX, and they will ensure you cannot sell your SP for greater than the cost to have an account long enough to earn that SP.
Difference in style, really. I'm an old Eve vet. I like my traditions and I like the way the game has run for over a decade because that's part of the charm that made it. You don't, which is cool. I'm not chastizing you for it, I just don't think this change is in any way progressive and does more harm than good. S'kinda like APEX BPOs, Warbarge Officer Gear, etc. Cash cows that are meant to be progressive for the average joe that wind up distorting core game design of risk/reward, etc. Call me a Dust 514 Conservative, just how I am. I don't think real life cash should ever find it's way in the in-game economy or skill point system. SKINs are cool, they don't hurt anything, but I'm a firm believer in the butterfly effect (a huge part of Eve/Dust, btw) and I'm a firm believer that even small gains like those from BPOs are enough to trigger hurricanes later.
Yet there's nobody on top of Dust's in game hierarchy that have benefitted from APEX, BPOs, or Respecs in any harmful way. However there are hundreds of players who have been able to correct skilling mistakes, build their wallets, and have a built in skill plan according to whichever Apex they obtained.
Name one person who is considered an elite player that's somehow taken advantage of these things to get where they are. A dude who never spent a dime on the game has 3 officer weapons named after him.
I'd argue vehemently that these things in Dust from the start would have prevented so many players giving up on the game when two months worth of efforts were wiped out by a nerf hammer. It was completely ridiculous that we didn't have respecs as we were in more of a beta in the months following release than any time I was in the actual beta. I can look at my contacts list and find dozens of players who quit Dust after some drastic balancing.
I just can't understand how people can still have these conservative views in Dust after 3 years plus of evidence showing that it is not attractive to a majority of people.
"Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing."
-Captain Obvious
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Thor Odinson42
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
7
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Posted - 2015.10.18 02:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Press Attache wrote:Thor, the economy, having a death mean some thing, and the permanence of your choices were what made this game unique.
Efforts to make Dust more casual, and more like every other shooter on the market, just show up how subpar the core components of dust are. Why would you play a crappy performing lobby shooter for casuals when there are better playing options?
But hey, CCP wants to court the casuals while trying to hold on to the old whales, I'll have a good laugh as they burn this mother down.
I'd like to get involved in Eve, I sub three characters still from previous efforts. Once I complete a few skill plans I'm gonna transfer them to one sub. From the sound of the mechanics of this change I wouldn't even consider using it to get where I'd like those characters to be.
I think the game of Eve is complex and diverse enough that the gameplay wouldn't change even if they offered full respecs. In my opinion it would open up the game to people not patient enough to wait for months to change directions in the game. I've heard so many Eve players that have left the game talk about not wanting to resub all their characters or grinding away to plex them. My point there is that those dudes would be paying for a subscription currently if they could re-enter the game and start playing the way they'd like to without waiting for months to do so.
I'm nowhere near experienced enough in Eve to have a definitive opinion on the matter, but I see a game that has the ability to appeal to many more players without really affecting the efforts of those playing the game at the highest levels.
I'm guessing many Eve vets see this as Pandora's box, but I think CCP is trying to find a way to appeal to more people and I can't blame them.
"Lonewolfing is hard because everyone is lonewolfing."
-Captain Obvious
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