DUST Search - Sticky:[Data Insights] Dropsuits and Weapons in Planetary Conquest

CCP Rattati wrote:

Avallo Kantor wrote:

I suppose an important question to ask toward CCP Rattati is if these numbers are 1) What you expect to see given current meta / balance, and 2) What you want to see with regards to end goals of balance vs current 'flavor'

A few observations on my part:

I'm quite happy to see racial rifles being so popular on each racial suit being the most prevalent fittings. (Am with Scr, Ga with AR, etc) The only notable deviation from this is Minmatar Assaults using plenty of Shotguns, which fits with the notion of Minmatar suits behaving similar to one weight class lower.
Comparatively the Amarr line which tends to weigh in about one suit class higher has a very popular Heavy frame as it can end up with more Armor hp than other heavy variants.

I think that the fact that certain dropsuit classes are missing is a bit of a cause for concern although it makes more sense in a pure kill data dump for logistics to not show up, but for suits like the Amarr Commando and the Gallente Commando to not show up even near the bottom is somewhat worrisome.

Not everything will be viable in PC. Pubs have incredible variety, in fact so much that it's hard to distill any robust conclusions from it.

Thing about PC, is that a tiny stat difference can eliminate a whole class/role, purely on the stats, not on how it plays, looks or feels.

We will try, but PC is pretty black and white, it has very little patience for sub-optimal fits. To be at this relative mix is pretty fantastic, compared to where we were months or years ago.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 27	Posted - 2015.10.12 09:34:00 - [1] - Quote Dear data enthusiasts, here is a document you can play around with. It contains the kills per weapon, dropsuit and combination, and reverse combination for you to study and dig around in. Have fun with it. I am sharing this now, so we have a baseline to compare Foxfour numbers to later. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/DUST/Hotfix/PCstats.xlsx "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

DeathwindRising Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 1	Posted - 2015.10.12 11:05:00 - [2] - Quote no other weapon is better at killing than the ARR on the cal assault? am i reading that right? i thought shield were UP lol?
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.10.12 12:28:00 - [3] - Quote Cool. Please support fair play!
Silver Strike44 813	Posted - 2015.10.12 14:23:00 - [4] - Quote Can you tell us how long of a time period this is over? My YouTube Channel

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 27	Posted - 2015.10.12 14:52:00 - [5] - Quote Silver Strike44 wrote: Can you tell us how long of a time period this is over? It's equal interval sampled over the last 3 months "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Arkena Wyrnspire Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 27	Posted - 2015.10.12 15:00:00 - [6] - Quote DATA AW YIS Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
DEATH THE KlD Imperfect - Bastards 494	Posted - 2015.10.12 15:06:00 - [7] - Quote Remember cal assault was overused due to dual tanking and not being true caldari another words it had nothing to do with shields being "good" but the fact it was good for dual tanking I imagine this'll change a bit CEO of Imperfect Bastards and NF -Heimdallr69
Avallo Kantor 904	Posted - 2015.10.12 15:20:00 - [8] - Quote One of the weapons is listed as (blank) this is the weapon with a grand total of 3812 kills which puts it near the upper end of weapons. Is it possible to tell us what this weapon should be? "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 16	Posted - 2015.10.12 15:33:00 - [9] - Quote Free Graphs: Google Doc (thanks, Rattati!) Dropsuit Usage Rates
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 16	Posted - 2015.10.12 15:34:00 - [10] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: One of the weapons is listed as (blank) this is the weapon with a grand total of 3812 kills which puts it near the upper end of weapons. Is it possible to tell us what this weapon should be? Thinking Suicides, Friendly Fire or Melee. Dropsuit Usage Rates

Lightning35 Delta514 The Warlords Legion 2	Posted - 2015.10.12 17:26:00 - [11] - Quote opens document eyes explode CEO of T-W-L YouTube- Lightning35 Delta514 Twitter- @LD3514
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 13	Posted - 2015.10.12 17:44:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear data enthusiasts, here is a document you can play around with. It contains the kills per weapon, dropsuit and combination, and reverse combination for you to study and dig around in. Have fun with it. I am sharing this now, so we have a baseline to compare Foxfour numbers to later. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/DUST/Hotfix/PCstats.xlsx Nova Knives had more kills than the Duvolle AR wtf Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 210	Posted - 2015.10.12 19:42:00 - [13] - Quote I wonder how many of those cal assaults were myo stacked. Weep not poor children, For life is this way, Murdering beauty and passion. I bring the light.
Regnier Feros Dead Man's Game 882	Posted - 2015.10.12 19:47:00 - [14] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear data enthusiasts, here is a document you can play around with. It contains the kills per weapon, dropsuit and combination, and reverse combination for you to study and dig around in. Have fun with it. I am sharing this now, so we have a baseline to compare Foxfour numbers to later. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/DUST/Hotfix/PCstats.xlsx Nova Knives had more kills than the Duvolle AR wtf Sniper rifles had more kills than a Laser rifle LOL I LIKE PIE
Avallo Kantor 904	Posted - 2015.10.12 20:11:00 - [15] - Quote I am somewhat concerned about the position of an Officer weapon as one of the top killing weapons in PC. I know the Officer proliferation has been ... extreme, but to see it as one of the highest kill weapon in terms of raw kills is a bit disheartening. I think Officer weapons should be some of the best KDR weapons among all weapons, but to see it also topping raw kill numbers indicates that it is seeing extreme fielding and use which seems at odds with the ideal of having officer weapons being OP due to scarcity. If they can be fielded so widely then perhaps there is a need to either balance them with expectation that they will be used en masse or to modify proliferation rates to ensure scarcity. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Demandred Moores Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 178	Posted - 2015.10.12 20:22:00 - [16] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: I am somewhat concerned about the position of an Officer weapon as one of the top killing weapons in PC. I know the Officer proliferation has been ... extreme, but to see it as one of the highest kill weapon in terms of raw kills is a bit disheartening. I think Officer weapons should be some of the best KDR weapons among all weapons, but to see it also topping raw kill numbers indicates that it is seeing extreme fielding and use which seems at odds with the ideal of having officer weapons being OP due to scarcity. If they can be fielded so widely then perhaps there is a need to either balance them with expectation that they will be used en masse or to modify proliferation rates to ensure scarcity. This is because the posture base for pc is rather limited and corps are able to buy up officer gear with all the isk they generate and provide it to their players. Working as intended and good for the community. Think is all they gear was being dumped into pubs, officer spam in pubs is already ridiculous. How would you even propose a "fix" to your perceived problem when corps are already stocked on billions worth? Just remove them? Cause it would take a long time to filter out by just making them more rare. Though the officer meta is a bit ridiculous pc's are fun still. Let's actually fix things like ewar instead of looking at silly stuff. riseofancientFA.gs
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.10.13 02:09:00 - [17] - Quote No Amarr Logistics..? I used Amarr Logistics religiously not more than a month ago in multiple PCs... Wonder why there isn't a single reference to them? Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.10.13 02:30:00 - [18] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: No Amarr Logistics..? I used Amarr Logistics religiously not more than a month ago in multiple PCs... Wonder why there isn't a single reference to them? Similar report in the Barbershop from Duncan Idaho: Amarr Logi shotgun kill Looks like he was killed by a Officer Commando (ak.0). Zero Stormraider or Commando ak.0 kills in the data. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Celus Ivara DUST University Ivy League 421	Posted - 2015.10.13 03:29:00 - [19] - Quote Wow, interesting to see all the above-proto tier weapons there. I get the causes for that, but still, for some reason wasn't expecting it on that level. #PortDust514

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 27	Posted - 2015.10.13 03:30:00 - [20] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: No Amarr Logistics..? I used Amarr Logistics religiously not more than a month ago in multiple PCs... Wonder why there isn't a single reference to them? Similar report in the Barbershop from Duncan Idaho: Amarr Logi shotgun kill Looks like he was killed by a Officer Commando (ak.0). Zero Stormraider or Commando ak.0 kills in the data. This isn't all kills, the cut off point is obviously in the hundreds "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.10.13 04:11:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: No Amarr Logistics..? I used Amarr Logistics religiously not more than a month ago in multiple PCs... Wonder why there isn't a single reference to them? Similar report in the Barbershop from Duncan Idaho: Amarr Logi shotgun kill Looks like he was killed by a Officer Commando (ak.0). Zero Stormraider or Commando ak.0 kills in the data. This isn't all kills, the cut off point is obviously in the hundreds Ah, alright. Makes more sense. It know it seems obvious but you gotta mention these things! Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Vulpes Dolosus Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 3	Posted - 2015.10.13 04:17:00 - [22] - Quote Thanks! Can we get vehicle usage/losses as well? Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Soraya Xel Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 6	Posted - 2015.10.13 05:05:00 - [23] - Quote Are vehicle stats missing from this? EDIT: Or, since the obvious answer is "yes"... Are we afraid of the revolt of dropsuit users if you include vehicle stats in this? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Avallo Kantor 915	Posted - 2015.10.13 05:12:00 - [24] - Quote I suppose an important question to ask toward CCP Rattati is if these numbers are 1) What you expect to see given current meta / balance, and 2) What you want to see with regards to end goals of balance vs current 'flavor' A few observations on my part: I'm quite happy to see racial rifles being so popular on each racial suit being the most prevalent fittings. (Am with Scr, Ga with AR, etc) The only notable deviation from this is Minmatar Assaults using plenty of Shotguns, which fits with the notion of Minmatar suits behaving similar to one weight class lower. Comparatively the Amarr line which tends to weigh in about one suit class higher has a very popular Heavy frame as it can end up with more Armor hp than other heavy variants. I think that the fact that certain dropsuit classes are missing is a bit of a cause for concern although it makes more sense in a pure kill data dump for logistics to not show up, but for suits like the Amarr Commando and the Gallente Commando to not show up even near the bottom is somewhat worrisome. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 27	Posted - 2015.10.13 07:47:00 - [25] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: I suppose an important question to ask toward CCP Rattati is if these numbers are 1) What you expect to see given current meta / balance, and 2) What you want to see with regards to end goals of balance vs current 'flavor' A few observations on my part: I'm quite happy to see racial rifles being so popular on each racial suit being the most prevalent fittings. (Am with Scr, Ga with AR, etc) The only notable deviation from this is Minmatar Assaults using plenty of Shotguns, which fits with the notion of Minmatar suits behaving similar to one weight class lower. Comparatively the Amarr line which tends to weigh in about one suit class higher has a very popular Heavy frame as it can end up with more Armor hp than other heavy variants. I think that the fact that certain dropsuit classes are missing is a bit of a cause for concern although it makes more sense in a pure kill data dump for logistics to not show up, but for suits like the Amarr Commando and the Gallente Commando to not show up even near the bottom is somewhat worrisome. Not everything will be viable in PC. Pubs have incredible variety, in fact so much that it's hard to distill any robust conclusions from it. Thing about PC, is that a tiny stat difference can eliminate a whole class/role, purely on the stats, not on how it plays, looks or feels. We will try, but PC is pretty black and white, it has very little patience for sub-optimal fits. To be at this relative mix is pretty fantastic, compared to where we were months or years ago. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 08:46:00 - [26] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pubs have incredible variety, in fact so much that it's hard to distill any robust conclusions from it. I'd like to take a moment to appreciate that statement. Please compare the conclusion you just stated with the state of the game before hotfix alpha. I realize that there's always something left to be done, but balancing wise this game seems rather healthy now, which is a pretty big achievement given the state of things when you came into power. That deserves a serious thumbs up. As for the lack of usage of certain suits or weapons in PC right now: LRs are terribly underused and only the NEG-1 manages to claim a total of 652 kills out of 185k. That seems like a cause for action. Also heavies seem very popular, yet they only come in officer HMG, pro assault HMG or pro vanilla HMG variants. This seems like a huge part of PC that's dominated by a terrible monotony of choices. Choose sentinel, choose HMG, do the same thing everybody else does. I suggest diversifying HMGs further (more range for assault HMG, or a new 'tactical HMG') and creating an anti-infantry variant of the FG (how about: 1.0 charge time, 1.0 duration of the fire animation, 800 damage for a total of 400 dps before bonuses, 400 damage splash at 2.0 meters radius, 125 meter effective range, 200 absolute range). The data tells me that this area of PC needs more variety and I don't know how else to provide it.
Avallo Kantor 920	Posted - 2015.10.13 21:11:00 - [27] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Avallo Kantor wrote: I suppose an important question to ask toward CCP Rattati is if these numbers are 1) What you expect to see given current meta / balance, and 2) What you want to see with regards to end goals of balance vs current 'flavor' A few observations on my part: I'm quite happy to see racial rifles being so popular on each racial suit being the most prevalent fittings. (Am with Scr, Ga with AR, etc) The only notable deviation from this is Minmatar Assaults using plenty of Shotguns, which fits with the notion of Minmatar suits behaving similar to one weight class lower. Comparatively the Amarr line which tends to weigh in about one suit class higher has a very popular Heavy frame as it can end up with more Armor hp than other heavy variants. I think that the fact that certain dropsuit classes are missing is a bit of a cause for concern although it makes more sense in a pure kill data dump for logistics to not show up, but for suits like the Amarr Commando and the Gallente Commando to not show up even near the bottom is somewhat worrisome. Not everything will be viable in PC. Pubs have incredible variety, in fact so much that it's hard to distill any robust conclusions from it. Thing about PC, is that a tiny stat difference can eliminate a whole class/role, purely on the stats, not on how it plays, looks or feels. We will try, but PC is pretty black and white, it has very little patience for sub-optimal fits. To be at this relative mix is pretty fantastic, compared to where we were months or years ago. Sorry, I did not mean to come across as overly critical in my response. I find it AMAZING that we have as much variety as we do, especially in regards to Assault Suits. Taking out the Minmatar use of Shotgun Assault fits we see that EVERY racial Assault paired with their Racial rifle is both a viable and popular choice on the battlefield which is fantastic to see. The fact that every Sentinel suit sees use is also to be commended, as well as every scout suit. We have a situation where every class of dropsuit (L, M, H) has a viable role with every race. Simply pretending that each of these suit classes / races are all identically fit (which the data clearly shows they are not) We can see 12 viable 'classes' with more besides in the roles of Logistics, a few commandos, and then the numerous viable rifle subtypes (Assaults, Breaches, Tactical Variants) What you have done this past year and a bit is amazing. You have created a competitive FPS with a plethora of distinct guns, roles, suits and fittings which are all viable at end game level. This blows other FPS games out of the water, and you really need some sort of trophy for this feat. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.10.19 11:51:00 - [28] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear data enthusiasts, here is a document you can play around with. It contains the kills per weapon, dropsuit and combination, and reverse combination for you to study and dig around in. Have fun with it. I am sharing this now, so we have a baseline to compare Foxfour numbers to later. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/DUST/Hotfix/PCstats.xlsx Nova Knives had more kills than the Duvolle AR wtf Sticky knives on cloaky dampened suits that run faster, jump higher and have a smaller hitbox than any other suit in the game had more kills than other weapons? No way! Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Symbioticforks Kinsho Swords Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.10.22 10:22:00 - [29] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Avallo Kantor wrote: I suppose an important question to ask toward CCP Rattati is if these numbers are 1) What you expect to see given current meta / balance, and 2) What you want to see with regards to end goals of balance vs current 'flavor' A few observations on my part: I'm quite happy to see racial rifles being so popular on each racial suit being the most prevalent fittings. (Am with Scr, Ga with AR, etc) The only notable deviation from this is Minmatar Assaults using plenty of Shotguns, which fits with the notion of Minmatar suits behaving similar to one weight class lower. Comparatively the Amarr line which tends to weigh in about one suit class higher has a very popular Heavy frame as it can end up with more Armor hp than other heavy variants. I think that the fact that certain dropsuit classes are missing is a bit of a cause for concern although it makes more sense in a pure kill data dump for logistics to not show up, but for suits like the Amarr Commando and the Gallente Commando to not show up even near the bottom is somewhat worrisome. Not everything will be viable in PC. Pubs have incredible variety, in fact so much that it's hard to distill any robust conclusions from it. Thing about PC, is that a tiny stat difference can eliminate a whole class/role, purely on the stats, not on how it plays, looks or feels. We will try, but PC is pretty black and white, it has very little patience for sub-optimal fits. To be at this relative mix is pretty fantastic, compared to where we were months or years ago. I remember when having 1-2 snipers was viable in PC. If you had exceptional snipers on half of the maps they could perform well enough to merit having one. Provide just enough of an x-factor to assist in cloning out the enemy team, or at the very least help protect a point. You excluded an entire subset of your player base by not scaling the sniper rifle appropriately. Under the term "precision weapon" the sniper rifle was bastardized by well meaning Developers / CPM's. A headshot only weapon isn't viable. Dust 514 often runs at well below 30 frames per second, include bad hit detection, cloaking, jumping, reduced clip sizes, player movement while hacking installations. There are any number of factors that make that style of gameplay extremely unrewarding. In terms of both kills and level of enjoyment. Counter snipers are too easily rewarded, removing player skill from the equation completely. The better sniper cannot win out the fight, because there is no fight. Again more unrewarding game play courtesy of those well meaning Developers / CPM's who know not what they've done. Nor care to rectify it. I would like to direct your attention here. Sniper Rifle Scaling / Red Line / Range Just to point it out, you'll see the standard sniper rifle killing most players with 2 shots. [equal levels of advancement on suit vs. sniper rifle] Assaults would lose half, scouts would lose more than half. Anyway you look at it 2 bullets to kill the majority of infantry. If you read the post you'll see that many players could increase that number through tactical load outs. A great many did. Eventually almost everyone did. (see damage mod nerf) Time to kill was a front line infantry problem, but in the end everyone just put on more armor while sniper rifle base damage became that much worse. (snipers stack damage mods) Anyway, not going to bore you with the history of the ostracized sniper class, unless I hear you say you would like to help this portion of the player base. Keep in mind, I don't play this game anymore. That's how much I care. You know sniping is bad when even I refuse to do it.
Symbioticforks Kinsho Swords Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.10.23 20:36:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Not everything will be viable in PC. Pubs have incredible variety, in fact so much that it's hard to distill any robust conclusions from it. Thing about PC, is that a tiny stat difference can eliminate a whole class/role, purely on the stats, not on how it plays, looks or feels. We will try, but PC is pretty black and white, it has very little patience for sub-optimal fits. To be at this relative mix is pretty fantastic, compared to where we were months or years ago. I await your response. I miss our little interactions. Please, be gentle sir. You know sniping is bad when even I refuse to do it.



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riseofancientFA.gs

You know sniping is bad when even I refuse to do it.

You know sniping is bad when even I refuse to do it.