I just don't like the feel that i have to go out of my way and limit myself in order to fix this game.

And you never should. It's not the fact that players do protostomp, it's the fact that they can. Whether it be funded by PC ISK, successful trading, a couple years worth of winnings adding up or just being extremely efficient in a PRO setup, the fact is that it's the game that allows a decent chunk of vets to almost constantly run significantly superior gear.

As keeps being said over and over, the gear you use doesn't make a damn difference against people who are just good. I never use anything below Prototype and I have a 1.13 KD because I'm only good at vehicles but play infantry most of the time.

Or you could consider the fact that we have the skills to use certain gear, and trying to build extra fits around lower tier gear just because some people complain about it isn't worth the trouble.

As keeps being said over and over, the gear you use doesn't make a damn difference against people who are just good. I never use anything below Prototype and I have a 1.13 KD because I'm only good at vehicles but play infantry most of the time.

And you never should. It's not the fact that players do protostomp, it's the fact that they can. Whether it be funded by PC ISK, successful trading, a couple years worth of winnings adding up or just being extremely efficient in a PRO setup, the fact is that it's the game that allows a decent chunk of vets to almost constantly run significantly superior gear.

Pro stompers don't care about the community. They care about themselves.

Also, they're are players that squad up and step up to the challenge against pro stompers. I do it all the time with a strong squad. Those stompers hate me, or any player with the backbone to fight back in equal gear.

They claim they want new players, and want the game to grow. In reality they don't want a challenge. They just want more targets, and shorter Queues lol!

That's why alot of them run mods. They're not actually that good. If they were they wouldn't mod. It's really quite simple.

What's broken in this game more than proto stomping is the lack of team work! Before complaining about stomps get in squad ffs! You guys cry about this solo mode bs because you lack teamwork and tactics. You don't want to think or slow down enough to work together. You should see some of these "PC" teams now lol! Guys substituting tactics and teamwork for mods and glitches lol!

I call it the domination syndrome! If anything, every mode should have friendly fire! I mean just the other day I was playing a PC where I was thankful I was Gallente for my rep bonus lol! I had pubstars leaping around with Mass drivers and Bons shotguns smh. I spent more time running away from undisciplined panic fire than I did the enemy lol ...

P.F.T.C. ... CCP, every noobs isn't ready for every weapon. There should be a certain level of tactical play reached before you can unlock bon's, core Nade, and MD's lol! Js

The playerbase lacks tactics and control, especially in PC. I got it, guys have mods and use glitches, but it doesn't make them unstoppable. I believe it causes lag, but all these overly biased tech wannabes keep claiming it's all CCP's fault lol! *shrugs*

All things equal, if they didn't use mods alot of you will still lose because you never work together in the 1st darn place?! You run pubs all day, mostly dom, then squad up 16 deep, tell dumb*ss jokes, make stupid racial comments, and lose horribly?! Promptly after getting completely redlined you return to dom to make yourself feel better by camping a roof with a MD lol!

While you're complaining about guys who proto stomp, you've failed to realized your true problem. A serious lack of communication!

I've been running with friends, conversing, and helping some newer players with fits and tactics in my channel "fighthouse". Anyone can join and chit chat. Everyone is welcome! All I ask is keep the topics on the game, and the hate to a minimum. For vets who truly want to help new players, or players looking for solid advice. The chat isn't password protected, and is open to anyone.

In the last couple of days we've discussed tons of tactics, dropsuits, and vehicles. Helping me, or really me helping him, is Tread loudly 2 and a few others dropping in and out. We just discuss tactics and run squad. Talk about all sorts of stuff, and I've found out that alot of players just don't know tons! To any new players out there... READ THE STATS!

Look if you guys are looking for an easy game go play COD.... or play dom?!

If you want to get into some challenging fights learn to work as a team, and play FW and PC.

All I ask is you don't take away the game the rest of us love because you're too lazy to read, and too socially awkward to squad.

Now I know the modding is a nuisance, believe me, but honestly you guys allow it more than CCP! Just don't play with or against them. *shrugs*

Guys complain about guys leaving battle, but honestly I don't blame them sometimes. I'm not playing repeated matches against kaizuka sniper lol! Not gone happen. He's gotta log off at some point, and dust isn't my job. When he's gone or bored of waiting for someone to cheat, he'll leave. *shrugs*

While we wait for CCP to realize the playerbase is dwindling, let's help mitigate the bs. It may take CCP awhile to realize the community is against such activity. It took them forever to figure out that the community actually wanted to keep this game alive lol! So bare with them on the issue.

In the meantime just know that some poor saps in this game have been tricked, like black people and nikes, into believing KD is more than just a number on the TV screen lol! Let em have it I say!

If you want the game to be better than help out, and stop complaining just to complain.

If newbie will have same suit in inventory he will go for stomp too.
This is not mistake of game or stompers.
Thats basicaly misstake of everyone who do not want invest time in leveling up for better gear.
I already sent idea about mode what will work just with basic stuff.
But NO.. everybody wants cut the proto/ofice people out of game.
I do not know why?
I do not see reasson why they should limit themselves just because some sort of people cannot grind same way how they grind before.

I do not talking about you.
You start about newbies.

BTW what about that idea about mode, where will be just basic stuff.
Because honestly i do not see reasson why proto/adv suits should be just for FW and Planetary one.

The basic mode what i brough up its nice compromise.
Or maybe implementation of gear balance, but honestly i do not know how implement that.

I am not trying to get Advanced Gear taken out of Pubs; only Proto and Officer Gear.

No one will play a gamemode that only allows for basic gear; the queue time for a battle would be ridiculous.

Limiting what gear a person can use to just one tier will destroy the diversity in dropsuits that we currently face in battle; that diversity being a major aspect of why Dust is such a great game.

As for gear balance, if we knew how something like that could be done it would still be bad because it would again destroy the diversity of people's dropsuits.

Let's be reasonable here. Removing Proto and Officer Gear from Public Contracts is not going to ruin your gaming experience but it will dramatically improve NPE.

Gear balance, that will be really difficult i dont know maybe some calculator what will check gear meta in palyer inventory and based on numbers will balance both teams?

I really dont know.

I know what do you think, but what worries me is reality and that reality is basicaly same like it is now.
ERGO
If people have issues with protos now, im quite sure there will be another group what will have issues even with advanced gear.

No one will play a gamemode that only allows for basic gear; the queue time for a battle would be ridiculous.

There is no reason not to have pubs be the solo mode. Solo does not mean "no teamwork". Comms are not needed to understand what to do or what the rest of the team are trying to do. Most of the times comms suck, esp with new players. There is no reason for premade stomp squads to be allowed to play against players in pubs with players that havea totally different mentality about the game and different preference for gameplay. AndGǪ

NO REASON TO LIMIT THE GAME TO A CERTAIN CUSTOMER BASE.

I would. It would benefit noobs as well! That's why they should make a basic tier mode that goes through the existing modes of ambush, skirmish, and Domination randomly.

There is no reason not to have pubs be the solo mode. Solo does not mean "no teamwork". Comms are not needed to understand what to do or what the rest of the team are trying to do. Most of the times comms suck, esp with new players. There is no reason for premade stomp squads to be allowed to play against players in pubs with players that havea totally different mentality about the game and different preference for gameplay. AndGǪ

NO REASON TO LIMIT THE GAME TO A CERTAIN CUSTOMER BASE.

We are not trying to eliminate Proto/Officer Gear from the game, we just want it removed from Public Contracts and reserved for FW and PC.

And stop thinking we are pushing for this because we are too lazy to grind for Proto Gear. I have 81 million SP invested entirely into the Gallente and I have Proto everything (except for Tanks and Dropships because I don't use those yet).

The idea to remove Proto/Officer Gear from Public Contracts, as well as squads, is specifically meant to improve NPE. Our objective is to increase this game's playerbase so that someday maybe people can get the 32v32 matches they were told they would get when the game was first released AND our objective is to increase revenue generated from this game so that CCP has a reason to improve upon it.

Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

Pro stompers don't care about the community. They care about themselves.

Also, they're are players that squad up and step up to the challenge against pro stompers. I do it all the time with a strong squad. Those stompers hate me, or any player with the backbone to fight back in equal gear.

They claim they want new players, and want the game to grow. In reality they don't want a challenge. They just want more targets, and shorter Queues lol!

That's why alot of them run mods. They're not actually that good. If they were they wouldn't mod. It's really quite simple.

What's broken in this game more than proto stomping is the lack of team work! Before complaining about stomps get in squad ffs! You guys cry about this solo mode bs because you lack teamwork and tactics. You don't want to think or slow down enough to work together. You should see some of these "PC" teams now lol! Guys substituting tactics and teamwork for mods and glitches lol!

I call it the domination syndrome! If anything, every mode should have friendly fire! I mean just the other day I was playing a PC where I was thankful I was Gallente for my rep bonus lol! I had pubstars leaping around with Mass drivers and Bons shotguns smh. I spent more time running away from undisciplined panic fire than I did the enemy lol ...

P.F.T.C. ... CCP, every noobs isn't ready for every weapon. There should be a certain level of tactical play reached before you can unlock bon's, core Nade, and MD's lol! Js

The playerbase lacks tactics and control, especially in PC. I got it, guys have mods and use glitches, but it doesn't make them unstoppable. I believe it causes lag, but all these overly biased tech wannabes keep claiming it's all CCP's fault lol! *shrugs*

All things equal, if they didn't use mods alot of you will still lose because you never work together in the 1st darn place?! You run pubs all day, mostly dom, then squad up 16 deep, tell dumb*ss jokes, make stupid racial comments, and lose horribly?! Promptly after getting completely redlined you return to dom to make yourself feel better by camping a roof with a MD lol!

While you're complaining about guys who proto stomp, you've failed to realized your true problem. A serious lack of communication!

I've been running with friends, conversing, and helping some newer players with fits and tactics in my channel "fighthouse". Anyone can join and chit chat. Everyone is welcome! All I ask is keep the topics on the game, and the hate to a minimum. For vets who truly want to help new players, or players looking for solid advice. The chat isn't password protected, and is open to anyone.

In the last couple of days we've discussed tons of tactics, dropsuits, and vehicles. Helping me, or really me helping him, is Tread loudly 2 and a few others dropping in and out. We just discuss tactics and run squad. Talk about all sorts of stuff, and I've found out that alot of players just don't know tons! To any new players out there... READ THE STATS!

Look if you guys are looking for an easy game go play COD.... or play dom?!

If you want to get into some challenging fights learn to work as a team, and play FW and PC.

All I ask is you don't take away the game the rest of us love because you're too lazy to read, and too socially awkward to squad.

Now I know the modding is a nuisance, believe me, but honestly you guys allow it more than CCP! Just don't play with or against them. *shrugs*

Guys complain about guys leaving battle, but honestly I don't blame them sometimes. I'm not playing repeated matches against kaizuka sniper lol! Not gone happen. He's gotta log off at some point, and dust isn't my job. When he's gone or bored of waiting for someone to cheat, he'll leave. *shrugs*

While we wait for CCP to realize the playerbase is dwindling, let's help mitigate the bs. It may take CCP awhile to realize the community is against such activity. It took them forever to figure out that the community actually wanted to keep this game alive lol! So bare with them on the issue.

In the meantime just know that some poor saps in this game have been tricked, like black people and nikes, into believing KD is more than just a number on the TV screen lol! Let em have it I say!

If you want the game to be better than help out, and stop complaining just to complain.

The playerbase is dwindling because in May 2014 CCP, after months of building up Fan Fest, told us they were abandoning Dust for a new game called Legion. Then they went silent. Rattati has given us some hope, but we lose people because people buy new stuff. When people buy new stuff, they use that new stuff.

It's a freaking miracle we have the playerbase we have now, but it will only continue to shrink as people interpret silence for the end. It's only rational to assume the silence means that the reaction to CCP's intentions for Dust would kill the game entirely. Aside from crackheads like myself who will be here until the end.

And you never should. It's not the fact that players do protostomp, it's the fact that they can. Whether it be funded by PC ISK, successful trading, a couple years worth of winnings adding up or just being extremely efficient in a PRO setup, the fact is that it's the game that allows a decent chunk of vets to almost constantly run significantly superior gear.

Team Chat would still be available though for those who need it. A mute button for individual people just needs to be implemented into Team Chat.

EVE is the same way.

If you're successful and can afford it, I think you should be able to run whatever the hell you want.

I see you eyeing my sexy linked Orthrus.

HG Snakes for days.

How many neckbeards would run a links PS3 if they made that possible.

EVE is the same way.

If you're successful and can afford it, I think you should be able to run whatever the hell you want.

EVE also has a relative safe zone, sure people make suicide fits to gank noobs but they don't do it in fcking Titans.

Edit: I swear some of you people seem like you're intentionally trying to suffocate the game.

The stomps happen everywhere in FPS titles. But when it comes to Dust 514, the stomps can be so disheartening. I don't know what it is, but losing in Dust can be downright DragonForce Critical Beatdown brutal. The game has obviously been affected by it that when there is even just a glimmer of failure approaching, the team will not come out of their "shells" to fight.

I have no ideas on how to alleviate that problem

The stomps happen everywhere in FPS titles. But when it comes to Dust 514, the stomps can be so disheartening. I don't know what it is, but losing in Dust can be downright DragonForce Critical Beatdown brutal. The game has obviously been affected by it that when there is even just a glimmer of failure approaching, the team will not come out of their "shells" to fight.

I have no ideas on how to alleviate that problem

EVE is the same way.

If you're successful and can afford it, I think you should be able to run whatever the hell you want.

What you're saying here is 'it works in Eve so it should work in Dust'. I can see how you could get to that conclusion but I don't think it's that simple.

In Eve, you pick your fights. You fly around looking for a fight with your scout one jump ahead of you d-scanning as they go. You're looking for something to engage that you're likely to win against. If it's been a long roam you'll usually extend that to someone you might win against. When your scout finds a suitable target, you get the warpin, and you hope the bad guys are willing to engage - picking your fights in Eve works the other way around, too. You don't just sit there. You stay aligned to something and watch your d-scan. If something that's likely to stomp you shows up you GTFO. When the stars align and the guys you got the warpin on stick around to engage, it's usually because both sides think they have a chance at winning. You've found the elusive gudfight.

To make your 'EVE is the same way' comparison work, we'd have to change a few things. We'd have to spawn new players in nullsec in a T1 fit Rifter. Every gate would be bubbled and camped. Sure, some of the bad guys would be in Rifters as well, but there's also a bunch of bad guys in Faction fit Garmurs. If the new player wants to 'play', they have to go to a gate and fight at some stage. How long do you think the new player would last? How many new players do you think Eve would hold onto if that was the NPE?

So put yourself in a new players shoes and only run STD for a week. See what that does to your KD.

What we need is two types of contracts, a below 35 meta level pub that pays the same as current pubs and an anything goes meta level contract with higher pay.

What we need is two types of contracts, a below 35 meta level pub that pays the same as current pubs and an anything goes meta level contract with higher pay.

To everyone saying that squads are the main contributor to pubstomping:

Every other FPS has a squad mechanic of some sort or another, what makes the mechanic so broken in Dust that it's able to cause such frequent and severe stomps?

Oh if only!

If only there were a single stat that earmarked the stompers and allowed for a stacking algorithm that kept them playing each other while the people who didn't routinely stomp were left in peace to have complex nuanced matches that were almost always close and hotly-contested!

But alas, it just isn't so.

Pity.

If players can't/refuse to squad how is that our fault? I agree here!

Just because a merc refuses to squad doesn't mean others shouldn't be able to. You wanna play solo you take the risk of being stomped. This is a team tactical shooter where teamwork is encouraged!

Public Matches- High Security Space, meta level locked at 20-25.

Factional Matches- Low Security Space, meta level locked at 60

Special Contracts- Null Security Space, Meta level unlocked.

PC Contracts- Mix of Null & Low security protocals, Meta Level Unlocked.

This should do something to protect nooks

And btw, I'm not good with Meta numbers, this is just a guess/estimate.

Academy- Extends to about 800K WP. Includes tutorials on how to operate the skill trre, operate vehicles, learn about dropsuits, weapons and learn to operate the squad finder.

...Squads play to benefit the squad and rarely give a crap about the team as a whole. This is one of the main reasons I hate squads.

If squads played as a team they would make just as much sacrifice to assist a blueberry as they would to assist a squadmate.

I have been in squads before where my squad abandoned our entire team as well as abandoned me all because they didn't want to risk getting wrecked by the competition we were facing.

Public Matches- High Security Space, meta level locked at 20-25.

Factional Matches- Low Security Space, meta level locked at 60

Special Contracts- Null Security Space, Meta level unlocked.

PC Contracts- Mix of Null & Low security protocals, Meta Level Unlocked.

This should do something to protect nooks

And btw, I'm not good with Meta numbers, this is just a guess/estimate.

Academy- Extends to about 800K WP. Includes tutorials on how to operate the skill trre, operate vehicles, learn about dropsuits, weapons and learn to operate the squad finder.

Then why don't squads actively play as a team? Squads play to benefit the squad and rarely give a crap about the team as a whole. This is one of the main reasons I hate squads.

If squads played as a team they would make just as much sacrifice to assist a blueberry as they would to assist a squadmate.

I have been in squads before where my squad abandoned our entire team as well as abandoned me all because they didn't want to risk getting wrecked by the competition we were facing.

So this seems like a decent example and you've kinda explained how squads create stomps - when players are squadded they're less likely to help the random blueberries that are getting piled on (and I guess you could also say they're also more likely to pile on lone redberries). But you didn't really explain how this is a unique situation to squads in Dust, which is what I'm really asking about. What is it about Dust that creates this behavior from squads, and why don't we see this behavior from squads in other FPSs?

A total meta system is too open for abuse. The idea of restricting power multipliers in certain modes is good but the implementation is flawed.

If newbie will have same suit in inventory he will go for stomp too.
This is not mistake of game or stompers.
Thats basicaly misstake of everyone who do not want invest time in leveling up for better gear.
I already sent idea about mode what will work just with basic stuff.
But NO.. everybody wants cut the proto/ofice people out of game.
I do not know why?
I do not see reasson why they should limit themselves just because some sort of people cannot grind same way how they grind before.

That I am not going to be able to answer. I'm not really a true gamer so I don't have much experience with other games. Over the past ten years I have played Madden, Call of Duty, and now Dust514; and that is not to say that I have been playing video games consistently throughout those ten years either. I probably have only played videogames for 5 of those ten years and in no way consecutively.

I played a lot of Zelda when I was little though.

And the point here is that almost every single multiplayer FPS allows squads and we don't have "stomping" in those games the same way we do here.

Why then do people conclude that squads are the issue, when the link above shows a basic example of how bad the disparity is between lesser geared players and well geared players?

Because those games don't have an economic component that encourages not losing.

Doesn't mean diddly sqaut that a suit a protostomper wears is worth nor than my paycheck,buy it doesn't make it invincible. Road kill,mass driver,shotgun,locus,and remote explosive can kill it.

Tell you what, you try getting through a 4 man fire team wearing proto while you wear a Frontline fit to flip an objective and see if you think they are invincible. In your wild anecdotal dreams you win that fight, but in DUST you get face smashed. At best you get one from the distance or with a shotty before they destroy you and needle the guy back, This game is about 2 things..GEAR AND SP.

Then why don't squads actively play as a team? Squads play to benefit the squad and rarely give a crap about the team as a whole. This is one of the main reasons I hate squads.

If squads played as a team they would make just as much sacrifice to assist a blueberry as they would to assist a squadmate.

I have been in squads before where my squad abandoned our entire team as well as abandoned me all because they didn't want to risk getting wrecked by the competition we were facing.

Many times you are tempted to spread out to cover 3 points in a skirmish to win a match. After getting no effort from blues over and over again a squad is likely to hold one objective and go for kills. This is an asset loss game, 4 people shouldn't be expected to carry a match.