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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
55
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Posted - 2015.10.12 00:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:I just don't like the feel that i have to go out of my way and limit myself in order to fix this game.
And you never should. It's not the fact that players do protostomp, it's the fact that they can. Whether it be funded by PC ISK, successful trading, a couple years worth of winnings adding up or just being extremely efficient in a PRO setup, the fact is that it's the game that allows a decent chunk of vets to almost constantly run significantly superior gear.
Stat modifiers are killing new player retention.
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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
55
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Posted - 2015.10.12 00:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:
As keeps being said over and over, the gear you use doesn't make a damn difference against people who are just good. I never use anything below Prototype and I have a 1.13 KD because I'm only good at vehicles but play infantry most of the time.
So put yourself in a new players shoes and only run STD for a week. See what that does to your KD.
Stat modifiers are killing new player retention.
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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
61
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Posted - 2015.10.13 00:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Shaun Iwairo wrote:Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:I just don't like the feel that i have to go out of my way and limit myself in order to fix this game. And you never should. It's not the fact that players do protostomp, it's the fact that they can. Whether it be funded by PC ISK, successful trading, a couple years worth of winnings adding up or just being extremely efficient in a PRO setup, the fact is that it's the game that allows a decent chunk of vets to almost constantly run significantly superior gear. EVE is the same way. If you're successful and can afford it, I think you should be able to run whatever the hell you want.
What you're saying here is 'it works in Eve so it should work in Dust'. I can see how you could get to that conclusion but I don't think it's that simple.
In Eve, you pick your fights. You fly around looking for a fight with your scout one jump ahead of you d-scanning as they go. You're looking for something to engage that you're likely to win against. If it's been a long roam you'll usually extend that to someone you might win against. When your scout finds a suitable target, you get the warpin, and you hope the bad guys are willing to engage - picking your fights in Eve works the other way around, too. You don't just sit there. You stay aligned to something and watch your d-scan. If something that's likely to stomp you shows up you GTFO. When the stars align and the guys you got the warpin on stick around to engage, it's usually because both sides think they have a chance at winning. You've found the elusive gudfight.
To make your 'EVE is the same way' comparison work, we'd have to change a few things. We'd have to spawn new players in nullsec in a T1 fit Rifter. Every gate would be bubbled and camped. Sure, some of the bad guys would be in Rifters as well, but there's also a bunch of bad guys in Faction fit Garmurs. If the new player wants to 'play', they have to go to a gate and fight at some stage. How long do you think the new player would last? How many new players do you think Eve would hold onto if that was the NPE?
Stat modifiers are killing new player retention.
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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
66
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Posted - 2015.10.13 22:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
To everyone saying that squads are the main contributor to pubstomping:
Every other FPS has a squad mechanic of some sort or another, what makes the mechanic so broken in Dust that it's able to cause such frequent and severe stomps?
Stat modifiers are killing new player retention.
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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
67
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Posted - 2015.10.14 03:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Summa Militum wrote:...Squads play to benefit the squad and rarely give a crap about the team as a whole. This is one of the main reasons I hate squads.
If squads played as a team they would make just as much sacrifice to assist a blueberry as they would to assist a squadmate.
I have been in squads before where my squad abandoned our entire team as well as abandoned me all because they didn't want to risk getting wrecked by the competition we were facing.
So this seems like a decent example and you've kinda explained how squads create stomps - when players are squadded they're less likely to help the random blueberries that are getting piled on (and I guess you could also say they're also more likely to pile on lone redberries). But you didn't really explain how this is a unique situation to squads in Dust, which is what I'm really asking about. What is it about Dust that creates this behavior from squads, and why don't we see this behavior from squads in other FPSs?
Stat modifiers are killing new player retention.
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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
67
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Posted - 2015.10.14 03:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:Public Matches- High Security Space, meta level locked at 20-25.
Factional Matches- Low Security Space, meta level locked at 60
Special Contracts- Null Security Space, Meta level unlocked.
PC Contracts- Mix of Null & Low security protocals, Meta Level Unlocked.
This should do something to protect nooks
And btw, I'm not good with Meta numbers, this is just a guess/estimate.
Academy- Extends to about 800K WP. Includes tutorials on how to operate the skill trre, operate vehicles, learn about dropsuits, weapons and learn to operate the squad finder.
A total meta system is too open for abuse. The idea of restricting power multipliers in certain modes is good but the implementation is flawed.
Stat modifiers are killing new player retention.
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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
87
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Posted - 2015.10.15 00:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Press Attache wrote:
Because those games don't have an economic component that encourages not losing.
I'm going to assume you meant 'losing ISK' because I can't really believe that the meta in pubs is 'do what you can to win so you can get that payout'. It also doesn't have much to do with squads, other than it might change the behavior of the squad from 'taking the objective' to 'saving my squadmates expensive suits'
However, if you are saying that the fact that you can lose ISK in Dust contributes to stomps, then this is definitely something that I've considered could be happening. As I understand the matchmaker, it tries to fill each side up with an even amount of high SP, medium SP and low SP players (see the links below). This makes sense as with only two brackets the MU system is not granular enough to just randomly assign players to each side.
So in any given battle there's more than likely a section of players on each team with the SP and ISK to protostomp. Who actually ends up doing the stomping is probably decided very early on in the match by whoever gets the jump on the other first. Once that has happened, you get a huge snowball effect. The guys that got jumped on early put away their protos for the rest of the match, and some of them might even take action to mitigate any effects that match would have had on their KD. They've gimped the top end of their team in doing so but the matchmaker still expects them to 'counter enemy vets'.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2716912#post2716912
3. Even in a battle like you're talking about, you still have many low ranking players in the other team for you to counter, and what I'm saying is on your side you also have vets to counter enemy vets. A battle shouldn't be decided solely by one or two vets, it's also about the whole team, so killing other players also contributes to your victory
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2716757#post2716757
From SP point of view, I can tell you there're evenly 30mil, 40mil or >50mil players on both team, and they all fight to the end, so it should still considered even if you look at teams not individual players.
Something is killing new player retention.
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