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CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
677
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:06:00 -
[91] - Quote
I'm against anything too elaborate or multi-insured against disconnects/lags, becsause it will tax CCP's staff and pull them off of being as productive as possible with regular hotfixes and updates.
So, (yikes, I brought this up before) we're playing this game partly like we play a shooter, partly like we play Monopoly. Many of us are entering matches more like real estate barons, hedging our risks, pulling out the moment it feels like a bad investment----and OK, we should be allowed to play the game that way if we want. BUT, just like pulling out of a stock market deal in mid-stream, you should pay a small tax, or take a small "investment rating" loss each time you pull that "I've changed my mind" option.
When we hit the 'triangle' button to see a player's Info, it should give us some small mentions of Ranking: Faction Standing (so we know she fights hardest for Minmatar, etc), and a "battles joined/completed" ratio number .
When a player "leaves" a battle less than 3 times per UTC day, there should be no penalty at all (you ought to be able to leave for physical reasons--it's not boot camp). IF you leave 3 times or more per day, --Faction Standing level should begin to go backwards (regardless of whether this was a FW match).
--Loyalty points should be reduced on ALL Factions you've built points with (this will not be visible to other players when they call up your Info screen).
--"Battles Completed" ratio will track it, (with a retro-dated back to when the matchmaker was activated, so many of us will already show negative-numbers)
--Finally, Loyalty Ranks should reduce, so that the only way to repair their Officer-Rank pride will be to temporarily increase AUR use (LOL, "buying" a captain's rank).
All these should occur simultaneously, so the player is shocked by how MANY little penalties he just suffered. But each reduction one should be a MODEST drop, so the player CAN opt to keep leaving, if he doesn't mind paying the leaving-tax and ranking-loss...
...and if doesn't mind that we can see how much of a "leaver" he is when we call up his Info screen, and knowing if he's worth inviting to parties
Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne...
No story can have life without writers and publishers.
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Sylwester Dziewiecki
511
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Posted - 2015.10.15 22:41:00 -
[92] - Quote
It's not cowardice to back out of a match or sign of bad faith; It is more like cold calculation.
Matchmaking system should remind courier contract in EVE: before accepting contract you can check plenty of data associated with the task, like size of cargo, travel rout, reward, collateral(so if you fail to deliver goods to destination you will have to pay for it) etc. those data are open to player and there is no surprises.
We can certainly can assume that it would never look like this in 514 game, because of certain reasons.. I have feeling that we have definitely more chances to see something compliantly opposite to transparency coming to Dust, and being part of it, a way to trick players, fool them to play with someone that they do not want to play with.
Some time ago development team disallow players to join squads or see them while being in battle, and since that moment complaints, like "we are fighting with no squads against at least 2" suddenly stop appearing on forum. In my opinion it was another nail in the 'I want to play a lone wolf in strangers squad' coffin, and another not needed nerf. BUT we no longer have those stupid complains on forums, happy days! So, victory is knowledge, removing option to see players corporations on match score board would reduce players leaving match, because they would no longer see connections with other players. They would no longer be able to tell if they are fighting against extremely good players, or with a swarm of noobs that did not left NPC corps.
I know, it's sic and I felt really really bed to telling you this , but it is very easy solution to implement .
In case you have time to read something else here is some interesting proposal to make pub matches more interesting: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2943553#post2943553
G Speed Scout. MM Logi/Assault.
EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
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Haolo Geardreck
Calvary Won't Arrive
11
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Posted - 2015.10.16 02:37:00 -
[93] - Quote
Because really, how can you identify your opponent? They're all engineered clone bodies in mass-produced suits. I originally tjoughybthe clones were 'piloted' by the merc remotely, which could be picked up on. But it turns out that's not the case..
G Commando/Sentinel, A Assault/Logistics, M Scout
- Terrible FPS gamer
- Decent Strategy gamer
- Good RPG gamer
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Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
922
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Posted - 2015.10.16 02:47:00 -
[94] - Quote
People leave if they're not going to win and therefore not get their daily ticket
Replace the mission with something like earn 2500WP and I think things would improve
Or
Maybe it's always been an issue, we just didn't notice before the latest matchmaking as games would fill back up
ADS Ramming Revenge!
Plasma Cannon Rampage
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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
115
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Posted - 2015.10.16 03:13:00 -
[95] - Quote
> This is fine but there is a point where, the carrot gets so juicy that players will leave a match without hesitation if they don't think they'll get it.
This makes no sense? The only thing they have to do to get the carrot is not leave.
> If Rattati and the team managed to eliminate a lot of these problems to the point where match making and team size balancing issues were no longer relavant,
Then you've probably fixed the reason players are leaving matches in the first place. IMO players are leaving matches because they are already getting punished by the matchmaker. They are thinking 'this is only going to get much worse if I stay'. You need something that changes that thinking to 'well this is going to get worse, but at least I've got x and y to look forward to if I stay'. Come up with a system that rewards a carrot that is proportional to how bad the matchmaker failed and you never have to worry about it again. If the matchmaker stays as it is you get rewarded for sticking out a stacked match, if the matchmaker improves the reward is smaller or goes away.
Something is killing new player retention.
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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
116
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Posted - 2015.10.16 04:19:00 -
[96] - Quote
So the above helps the people that are leaving because of an ISK hemorrhage. What about those who are precious about their KD?
Stop tracking it. Start tracking ISK efficiency in pubs. Start generating Killmails (did someone say new proxy node?)
Rattati once said something along the lines of 'I don't mind going up against a stomper when I'm in my STD gear, because even if he goes 20/1, when I'm the one that does the 1 the I'm happy that I've cost them.'
That's a great attitude, but people like to be able to track the stats that say they're good at one thing or another. When they see that number go up they get a whole lot of positive reinforcement and are more likely to continue that behavior. You get the same effect but in reverse with Killmails. Expensive Killmails are embarrassing, even more so if you've been taken down by cheap stuff. Not a day goes by on /r/eve where the recipient of some expensive Lossmail isn't mocked and derided. Lots of negative reinforcement for flying unnecessarily expensive stuff.
Something is killing new player retention.
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TheEnd762
SVER True Blood RUST415
839
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Posted - 2015.10.16 05:17:00 -
[97] - Quote
Shaun Iwairo wrote:What about those who are precious about their KD?
As has been stated numerous times, that group of players is a very small minority that is heavily exaggerated in a thinly-veiled attempt to push this non-issue into the spotlight. |
Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
118
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Posted - 2015.10.16 05:25:00 -
[98] - Quote
Just as I can't say for sure how many quit due to KD preservation, you can't say for sure how few quit due to KD preservation. The only think we know is that the problem exists. People are leaving matches at an unusually high rate, which is causing lopsided battles to snowball.
Something is killing new player retention.
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Sylwester Dziewiecki
511
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Posted - 2015.10.19 15:44:00 -
[99] - Quote
DiablosMajora wrote: Proposal: When joining a match you choose what gear to bring with you to the MCC (what, are you gonna bring your whole armory with you every time?), up to a certain limit of stuff. If you make the conscious action of leaving the battle, you could potentially lose some (or all) of the stuff you brought with you, which would then be split up among the winners (either your team or the enemy). If you happen to get disconnected, you have until the battle actually ends to rejoin without penalty. If you have to leave... well... don't fly what you can't afford to lose? 0.02isk
That was one of the Legion idea for PvE maps. Player were suppose to buy packed of clones that they were planning to take for the mission, if they would run out of them, mission ends for them.
It's to complex for dust.
Kevall Longstride wrote:Rightio.
So some have raised the issue of matchmaking, problems with Scotty, issues with the games poor net code etc etc. By and large I agree with those concerns. I wouldn't expect such a punishment/ reward system to be implemented if there was technical problems preventing it from being fairly enforced.
So let's reframe the question or rather give it a different context.
If Rattati and the team managed to eliminate a lot of these problems to the point where match making and team size balancing issues were no longer relavant, rendering these concerns moot, how would you then feel about a punishment system in place. Quite a few games do have them, the League of Legends example given earlier being a good one. So it's not like it's without precedent.
A lot of the feedback has been centred on improving the carrot aspect. This is fine but there is a point where, the carrot gets so juicy that players will leave a match without hesitation if they don't think they'll get it. If we improve the carrot to that point then I think it only fair that an equally large and effective stick should be in place.
Now, over the years many claims have been made about Dust and how it was to be a game of consequence. That's the part that appealed to me to begin with. I'd grown bored of the experience that COD offered being as it was, just another rinse and repeat lobby shooter.
But because of the failings of previous leadership, Dust is getting dangerously close to being just another formulaic Lobby Game. And like those games there's no consequence to your actions.
Now if we got to the hypothetical situation of a #portdust514 becoming reality and with it a chance to fix these issues then how much better would the game be, in terms of its meta, if true consequence became part of it. Bold part is impossible, objectively speaking. Team of that size is impossible to fix all issues that accumulated over several years. Taking in to account World of Darkness I do not believe that Rattati team works only on Dust, especially in times of Valkyrie delays. Beside, is it really worth to focus that amount of human resources to fix this game, if they can spend less time to make "+2%/-2%" changes and keep current amount of player base alive? Sorry bro, but you have head in the clouds. When I'm looking at the past, It was always players who was some how successful who were nerfed, not those who was unsuccessful by game mechanics.
G Speed Scout. MM Logi/Assault.
EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
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Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations
1
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Posted - 2015.10.19 18:01:00 -
[100] - Quote
This was covered here:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=202215
Know what cannot be known.
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Meee One
Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki
1
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Posted - 2015.10.20 08:22:00 -
[101] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:This is obviously a problem. And for those that stick to the end of a game it frankly annoys the hell out of them.
So chatting amongst the CPM about it, I had an idea and just wanted to bounce it off you all.
The main reason people leave is either the map, they don't like their chances against the opposition and want to protect their KDR.
As for the map, well as a Merc you're contracted to do a battle and it's a sign of bad faith if you back out. As for those those that want to go up against players that might present a challenge..... I personally don't have any time for that way of thinking.
So my idea is this. New Eden is all about consequences based on your choices. I want to add consequence to backing out of a contract.
Say there's a set number of times in day (DT-DT) that the game might allow you leave a battle. Things happen in RL. But after that number, your Merc is fined, heavily and direct from the wallet by CONCORD for cowardice. On top of that, your avatar in game is 'branded', showing you as a Merc that doesn't honour his/her contracts.
Removing the brand is easy. Complete a set number of matches from beginning to end.
But for the persistent offenders....
Their MU is boosted to the maximum level. They will be put up against the best players and have to take a hit to their precious KDR in order to return to the correct level. It'll also mean that they're kept separate from the rest of the player base until they learn the error of their ways.
Like I say, there's likely all sorts of problems with this idea that you'll point out to me but that's why I'm asking. Player A:"Hey guys i have a great idea." Guys:"Yeah?" Player A:"Let's keep leaving matches until it's only us versing eachother." Guys:"Ok."
Kdr padding to the extreme. And a low threat EOM reward farm. Did i mention the easily abused WP boosting?
Official Blueberry of the Forums.
Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.10.20 08:55:00 -
[102] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:I want no part of this, lol. I will always appreciate the carrot over the stick when it comes to match leaving. I'm a firm believer that if players are leaving matches there is a fundamental reason as to why and that needs to be addressed long before penalizing match-leaving. This ^
You're not taking care of the right issue. Penalizing the players won't solve anything, you'll just lose more players.
Rewarding those who stay WILL solve the problem. Triple the ISK payout for those who stayed til' the end of the match. This will push people to play their best gear the whole battle knowing they will earn something for their effort. You must stop listening to the proto whiners and increase the payouts significantly. It will increase the game quality for sure.
Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER !
- Sequal Rise
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