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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2015.10.01 23:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Solution:
Amarr Assault Bonus- 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown
LR/ScR Operation Bonus- 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown
Power disparity between Laser Weaponry on Non-Amarr Dropsuits and Amarr Assaults is lessen, Amarr Assault still remains as top choice. Laser Weaponry can now be balanced on the weapon not the suit. Laser Weaponry is now viable on all suits not just 1(2?) out of 20.
~Adjustments After Solution~
Laser Rifle:
- Increase Clip Size to 150 from 100
- Increase Range to 120m
- Add AV Variant
- LR Sound Increases with Firing Time
- ADS Sensitivity equal to Sensitivity in Settings
Scrambler Rifle:
- Increase Scope Zoom
- Increase Hipfire Dispersion
- Make Holding Charge cause Overheat
- Make AScR Overheat and Reduce Damage Slightly
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Regnier Feros
Pielords
825
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Posted - 2015.10.01 23:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why not give the Am assault quicker cooldown + lower seize up?
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.10.01 23:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Regnier Feros wrote:Why not give the Am assault quicker cooldown + lower seize up?
I still want overheat to be an actual punishment not something that can be easily shrugged off. By doing this I feel overheat management will be dismissed as you'll be back in action quickly.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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True Adamance
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21
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Posted - 2015.10.02 00:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Regnier Feros wrote:Why not give the Am assault quicker cooldown + lower seize up?
Honestly not worth having.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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Dingleburt Bangledack
Dingle's Berry Farms
421
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Posted - 2015.10.02 04:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
+1 All the way, OP.  |
Georgia Xavier
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.10.02 13:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Can I have your autograph on my laser weapons?
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Kierkegaard Soren
Eridani Light Horse Battalion
936
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Posted - 2015.10.02 16:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
If you make the heat reduction exclusive to the amassault then all laser weapons will remain a total PITA to balance for all suit types/players. Whilst lowering the amount to 3% certainly lessens the disparity, the disparity still exists, and more crucially, on anything other than the amassault the scram becomes really difficult to use; it is so easy to overheat unless you reign in your willingness to engage the enemy and take a breather after every fight, which in practical terms means you're leaving yourself open to counter-attacks. Pushing a point with a scram in a suit that is *not* an amassault is a miserable affair.
I understand that rewarding players for screwing up (overheating in this case) seems like a backwards idea, but I consider the penalties of a short seize duration *and* feedback damage (albiet lessened if we changed the amassault bonus to lessen seize penalties) to still be severe enough to still be a cause for concern for any amassault player. But as a reward, they have the option to empty a scram's magazine with only a short delay at around two-thirds of rounds fired, which would allow them to push harder than any other suit using laser weaponry. I think that's a pretty cool, lore-flavoured bonus.
The Operational skill is, to my mind, defunct; heat build-up is per second fired, not per shot fired, so spacing out your trigger inputs to allow the gun to cool between firing doesn't happen, and when you overheat you cool down. When you reload, you cool down. That 25% is just not useful to anyone. If we change the Operationals to 3% heat reduction per level then we're making all laser weapons easier to use, and therefore more accessable, to all players, and not just amassault ones. I think that is a desirable thing to have.
But on the balance of things, I think OP's ideas will be more likely to be implemented if, as I predict, the community gets pretty shouty at CCP after the hotfix drops. I'm a little bit too outside the box with my own solution, so +1 to this too.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
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Ateroith
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
152
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Posted - 2015.10.03 00:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
I agree. My MLT Laser Rifle does absolutely nothing. I would gladly agree to those upgrades!
"...Rule #2 - Never start a fight. Rule #3 - Never lose one either." - Lee Child
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maeth-01 2501
Splash-Damaged LLC
71
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Posted - 2015.10.03 00:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
Is that not the Point of it being an Amarr Bonus.... There gun works best on there suit..... Caldari have better reload on there guns.... so on and so forth
I can sorta see your point but I think your missing there's...... plus I like the fact my Viktor does not overheat
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.10.03 01:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
maeth-01 2501 wrote:Is that not the Point of it being an Amarr Bonus.... There gun works best on there suit..... Caldari have better reload on there guns.... so on and so forth
I can sorta see your point but I think your missing there's...... plus I like the fact my Viktor does not overheat
The difference between the Amarr Assault and other suits is it's bonus has the biggest factor on the Weaponry. You can use the Rail Rifle on other suits and not feel like your missing out on much, why shouldn't the ScR/Laser be the same?
The Amarr Assault will still be king, just without a higher thrown. While I see what your getting at, quite honestly I'm tired of the nerfs coming to these weapons because everyone assume you have Proto Amarr Assault, Viziam and Triple Stacked Damage Mods. These weapons should be treated equally to any other of the main battle rifles.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
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Posted - 2015.10.03 16:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
.
.
.
The first part, the analysis, is spot on and a very good post.
That really is the big downside in giv+¡ng signicifact kill power suit bonuses towards certain weapons.
Dust is good because it has generally avoided those.
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.10.04 22:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bump
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Ama Zarek
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
23
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Posted - 2015.10.05 11:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Do not agree.
However Being able to wipe out shields in seconds - The shield rep tool is missing.
The overheat vs damage to armor and shields are quite massive - if you do not have max skills.
Max skills in any other weapon kills me as well. |
Georgia Xavier
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.10.05 12:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ama Zarek wrote:Do not agree.
However Being able to wipe out shields in seconds - The shield rep tool is missing.
The overheat vs damage to armor and shields are quite massive - if you do not have max skills.
Max skills in any other weapon kills me as well.
Elaborating why you don't agree would help
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Regnier Feros
Dead Man's Game
851
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Posted - 2015.10.05 14:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bump
I LIKE PIE
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LOL KILLZ
LulKlz
386
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Posted - 2015.10.05 16:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Solution:
Amarr Assault Bonus- 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown
LR/ScR Operation Bonus- 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown
Power disparity between Laser Weaponry on Non-Amarr Dropsuits and Amarr Assaults is lessen, Amarr Assault still remains as top choice. Laser Weaponry can now be balanced on the weapon not the suit. Laser Weaponry is now viable on all suits not just 1(2?) out of 20.
~Adjustments After Solution~
Laser Rifle:
- Increase Clip Size to 150 from 100
- Increase Range to 120m
- Add AV Variant
- LR Sound Increases with Firing Time
- ADS Sensitivity equal to Sensitivity in Settings
Scrambler Rifle:
- Increase Scope Zoom
- Increase Hipfire Dispersion
- Make Holding Charge cause Overheat
- Make AScR Overheat and Reduce Damage Slightly
The AmAss bonus is the only thing making the LR still viable in combat. So no
\0/
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Georgia Xavier
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.10.05 16:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
LOL KILLZ wrote:Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Solution:
Amarr Assault Bonus- 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown
LR/ScR Operation Bonus- 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown
Power disparity between Laser Weaponry on Non-Amarr Dropsuits and Amarr Assaults is lessen, Amarr Assault still remains as top choice. Laser Weaponry can now be balanced on the weapon not the suit. Laser Weaponry is now viable on all suits not just 1(2?) out of 20.
~Adjustments After Solution~
Laser Rifle:
- Increase Clip Size to 150 from 100
- Increase Range to 120m
- Add AV Variant
- LR Sound Increases with Firing Time
- ADS Sensitivity equal to Sensitivity in Settings
Scrambler Rifle:
- Increase Scope Zoom
- Increase Hipfire Dispersion
- Make Holding Charge cause Overheat
- Make AScR Overheat and Reduce Damage Slightly The AmAss bonus is the only thing making the LR still viable in combat. So no
You can tweak the laser rifle after we balance the amarr assault
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
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Posted - 2015.10.05 21:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
LOL KILLZ wrote:Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Solution:
Amarr Assault Bonus- 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown
LR/ScR Operation Bonus- 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown
Power disparity between Laser Weaponry on Non-Amarr Dropsuits and Amarr Assaults is lessen, Amarr Assault still remains as top choice. Laser Weaponry can now be balanced on the weapon not the suit. Laser Weaponry is now viable on all suits not just 1(2?) out of 20.
~Adjustments After Solution~
Laser Rifle:
- Increase Clip Size to 150 from 100
- Increase Range to 120m
- Add AV Variant
- LR Sound Increases with Firing Time
- ADS Sensitivity equal to Sensitivity in Settings
Scrambler Rifle:
- Increase Scope Zoom
- Increase Hipfire Dispersion
- Make Holding Charge cause Overheat
- Make AScR Overheat and Reduce Damage Slightly The AmAss bonus is the only thing making the LR still viable in combat. So no
If you see the part where it says Laser Rifle I've included a list of possible adjustments. With these upcoming changes I have proposed it is basically just a buff to Laser Weaponry on other suits, Amarr Assault are going to stay rather the same.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.10.09 01:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bump Foxfour
Seems the proposed nerfs aren't really noticeable... Was really worried on the 4x kick.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.10.15 22:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Bump Until Noticed
After further testing... Charge Shot is okayish, ScR needs better Scope Zoom to compensate for Kick which has made long range engagements difficult.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Vesta Opalus
PROJECT OF KILLERS.
RUST415
1
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Posted - 2015.10.16 02:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Been saying this for a while, have a bump and stuff |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
4
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Posted - 2015.10.16 11:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
I was about to open a post on this.
While the bonus is good on scr rifle, it doesn't fit very well on laser rifle imo.
Without bonus you have a shorter max damage window, but you also reach working temperature faster, consuming less charge (60 charges before overheat)
In this way you can have almost 2 high damage windows within a single clip.
With the amarr bonus you have only one (80 charges before overheat), then you have to reload because with 20 charges you'll do nothing.
Am assault should have a bonus on LR clip to bring it to 140-150 or a bonus reducing overheat cooldown.
Regressed to blueberry level.
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.10.16 13:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:I was about to open a post on this.
While the bonus is good on scr rifle, it doesn't fit very well on laser rifle imo.
Without bonus you have a shorter max damage window, but you also reach working temperature faster, consuming less charge (60 charges before overheat)
In this way you can have almost 2 high damage windows within a single clip.
With the amarr bonus you have only one (80 charges before overheat), then you have to reload because with 20 charges you'll do nothing.
Am assault should have a bonus on LR clip to bring it to 140-150 or a bonus reducing overheat cooldown.
You're bring an interesting point, I may consider keeping the proposed Amarr Assault Bonus and change the Operational Skill from the LR to say Seize Time(Cooldown is useless TBH)? That change should keep the LR on the Amarr Assault to overheat around the 70s I think. After the LR discussion a few weeks ago, I believe one of the main changes that was agreed upon was to increase the LR clipsize over 100, we should see that change sometime.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
4
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Posted - 2015.10.16 21:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:
Seize Time(Cooldown is useless TBH)
That was what i was thinking, but didn't find the right words
Regressed to blueberry level.
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.10.19 21:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
VIZZZZIAM
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Georgia Xavier
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.10.19 23:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
I want the old laser rifle sound back,current one sounds like a garden hose
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.10.25 20:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
Bump
Will be quitting the game, but I'll still be keeping this post up.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
3
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Posted - 2015.10.26 07:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Solution:
Amarr Assault Bonus- 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown
LR/ScR Operation Bonus- 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown
Power disparity between Laser Weaponry on Non-Amarr Dropsuits and Amarr Assaults is lessen, Amarr Assault still remains as top choice. Laser Weaponry can now be balanced on the weapon not the suit. Laser Weaponry is now viable on all suits not just 1(2?) out of 20.
~Adjustments After Solution~
Laser Rifle:
- Increase Clip Size to 150 from 100
- Increase Range to 120m
- Add AV Variant
- LR Sound Increases with Firing Time
- ADS Sensitivity equal to Sensitivity in Settings
Scrambler Rifle:
- Increase Scope Zoom
- Increase Hipfire Dispersion
- Make Holding Charge cause Overheat
- Make AScR Overheat and Reduce Damage Slightly
What are your thoughts on the fact that laser weaponry is the only weaponry which is able to multiply its own damage and therefore receives an amazingly higher benefit from the warbarge, damage mods, and even proficiency?
Is this an actual problem?
How do we address that instead of balancing around players who have and don't have those things at a high level?
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
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Posted - 2015.10.26 08:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Solution:
Amarr Assault Bonus- 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown
LR/ScR Operation Bonus- 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown
Power disparity between Laser Weaponry on Non-Amarr Dropsuits and Amarr Assaults is lessen, Amarr Assault still remains as top choice. Laser Weaponry can now be balanced on the weapon not the suit. Laser Weaponry is now viable on all suits not just 1(2?) out of 20.
~Adjustments After Solution~
Laser Rifle:
- Increase Clip Size to 150 from 100
- Increase Range to 120m
- Add AV Variant
- LR Sound Increases with Firing Time
- ADS Sensitivity equal to Sensitivity in Settings
Scrambler Rifle:
- Increase Scope Zoom
- Increase Hipfire Dispersion
- Make Holding Charge cause Overheat
- Make AScR Overheat and Reduce Damage Slightly What are your thoughts on the fact that laser weaponry is the only weaponry which is able to multiply its own damage and therefore receives an amazingly higher benefit from the warbarge, damage mods, and even proficiency? Is this an actual problem? How do we address that instead of balancing around players who have and don't have those things at a high level?
Okay, it's a bit late but I'll try to answer. May not be what you're looking for...
The multiplier I believe should stay as is, it was makes these weapons unique and honestly wish more than two guns had these interesting features which have lead to investigations of what the potential damage is.
I don't believe it is such a huge deal, but here are a few sh*t fixes.
Change function of Warbarge direct damage bonus
Reduce Laser Weaponry Efficiency to +15/-15
Change how Damage Mods behave between base damage and multiplier damage.
Quite honestly I don't know how to balance the power gap between user with starter and maxed skills into these weapons. There is simply too much that changes the potential damage which leads to this gap. Most weapons you just have a base damage that changes per levels but here you got two things to worry about, and one can reach some godly numbers.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Georgia Xavier
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.10.27 13:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bump!
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
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Posted - 2015.10.29 02:34:00 -
[31] - Quote
Bump Till Noticed
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.11.01 01:58:00 -
[32] - Quote
Spooky
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Georgia Xavier
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.11.02 12:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
More bumps!
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Racro 01 Arifistan
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
613
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Posted - 2015.11.02 15:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
if that is the case then explain to me why my gall assault running LR is still capable of downign an opposing amarr assault with my own lr.
the amarr can fire for longer yes and in theory/paper has more dps. but as far as single shots go and your own wepaon managment the bonus its's self isnt that great.
the lr is bordering on the ''almost'' OP line. kept balanced by its heat managment requirement. a hefty 125 hp feedback damage and the fact it has a ******* overheat time of 10 seconds.........
the scr finally got its needed nerf but is still a vialbe weapon. and like the LR can be run on other suits rather well.
how ever as per racial fitting and racial desgins it makes sence that a race's own wepaons work better on thier own suits. while this is true. personal skill/aim will top racial bonuses any day of the week.
to bring it into perspecitve.
non amarr assualt useng LR without manageing heat depletes clip from 100-40. in a single trigger hold. at max skills
amarr assault using LR without managing can deplete the LR from 100-25 at max skils. this is a huge diffrence
as far as the scr rifle goes its also like the lr. the amarr comes out on top but not by too much of a margin.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/47521458/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/47521142
Oppose me and you shall incure my wrath.
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
3
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Posted - 2015.11.02 15:29:00 -
[35] - Quote
Racro 01 Arifistan wrote:
the scr finally got its needed nerf but is still a vialbe weapon. and like the LR can be run on other suits rather well.
You are just plain wrong.
Even on the Amarr assault it is weird and messed up.
Middle range where it is suppose to thrive is killed by the new kick.
Following up a charge shot with anything besides a base shot is instant overheat. The only counter to this is millions of SP to increase cool down and to max out a suit to get a bonus to almost make it viable.
Did it need a nerf? Sure.
Was it nerfed TOTALLY wrong leaving it useless to anyone that does not have a lot of experience with the weapon and millions of extra SP over what other weapons require to be viable? ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY.
Show there is a future #CCPSpeakOn514
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Georgia Xavier
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.11.02 16:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
Racro 01 Arifistan wrote:if that is the case then explain to me why my gall assault running LR is still capable of downign an opposing amarr assault with my own lr.
"But I was able to kill x with the y weapon" is never a viable argument because this varies from person to person. Saying you're able to do something does not mean others will be able to with equal success. If that were the case, We would see more laser rifles besides the Viktor's.
Racro 01 Artifisan wrote:the scr finally got its needed nerf but is still a vialbe weapon. and like the LR can be run on other suits rather well.
No, no it isn't, its viable only on the amarr assault and barely commando, the kick is negligible at short range but at medium and above,as intended, is a bit of a pain because of its minute zoom. You don't use any of these weapons at all do you?
Racro 01 Artifisan wrote:both laser wepaons have thier own damage multipliers for how close they are to overheating. the LR also has a second damage multipler which is how long the target it's self has been hit/pointed at by the beam.
My thoughts exactly. You're wrong on both, the scr doesn't have increasing damage and the LR's damage scales by time not heat so if you burst fire the LR you would be doing minimal damage and high heat levels.
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
2
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Posted - 2015.11.02 17:46:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ateroith wrote:I agree. My MLT Laser Rifle does absolutely nothing. I would gladly agree to those upgrades!
you suck with the laser rifle then
http://imgur.com/V7jNh0g
i drop these all day with mlt lr
please do not buff my lr lol it will become boring
pc master race
PORT IT CCP
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Georgia Xavier
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.11.02 23:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:Ateroith wrote:I agree. My MLT Laser Rifle does absolutely nothing. I would gladly agree to those upgrades! you suck with the laser rifle then http://imgur.com/V7jNh0gi drop these all day with mlt lr please do not buff my lr lol it will become boring
Wherever you go, I will like your comment
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.11.03 00:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
That's funny... I didn't get any notifications for this.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
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XxBlazikenxX
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.11.03 00:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
Okay Forever, we need to collaborate on this, I'm currently working on Amarr Commando Balancing so I am going to pop this thread in here and see if we can work together. I honestly do not think we can not balance one without changing the other. Well we can but we should balance both at the same time.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220063&find=unread
Amarr Loyalist
Amarr Commando Forever
Ancient Exiles. Member
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
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Posted - 2015.11.03 00:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
And on the AV laser rifle (or Breach Laser Rifle as I named it) I already made the exact stats for it in the thread.
Amarr Loyalist
Amarr Commando Forever
Ancient Exiles. Member
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
2
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Posted - 2015.11.03 01:46:00 -
[42] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Solution:
Amarr Assault Bonus- 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown
LR/ScR Operation Bonus- 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown
Power disparity between Laser Weaponry on Non-Amarr Dropsuits and Amarr Assaults is lessen, Amarr Assault still remains as top choice. Laser Weaponry can now be balanced on the weapon not the suit. Laser Weaponry is now viable on all suits not just 1(2?) out of 20.
~Adjustments After Solution~
Laser Rifle:
- Increase Clip Size to 150 from 100
- Increase Range to 120m
- Add AV Variant
- LR Sound Increases with Firing Time
- ADS Sensitivity equal to Sensitivity in Settings
Scrambler Rifle:
- Increase Scope Zoom
- Increase Hipfire Dispersion
- Make Holding Charge cause Overheat
- Make AScR Overheat and Reduce Damage Slightly
i like your changes to amar assault and lr / scr skills i dislike your idea of buffing the lr directly so im undecided as whether to give u a like
personally i dont want an av laser rifle
i want a breach laser rifle
and i want an av amar scrambler lance
and infantry amar scrambler lance ....both heavy weapons
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.11.03 03:19:00 -
[43] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Solution:
Amarr Assault Bonus- 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown
LR/ScR Operation Bonus- 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown
Power disparity between Laser Weaponry on Non-Amarr Dropsuits and Amarr Assaults is lessen, Amarr Assault still remains as top choice. Laser Weaponry can now be balanced on the weapon not the suit. Laser Weaponry is now viable on all suits not just 1(2?) out of 20.
~Adjustments After Solution~
Laser Rifle:
- Increase Clip Size to 150 from 100
- Increase Range to 120m
- Add AV Variant
- LR Sound Increases with Firing Time
- ADS Sensitivity equal to Sensitivity in Settings
Scrambler Rifle:
- Increase Scope Zoom
- Increase Hipfire Dispersion
- Make Holding Charge cause Overheat
- Make AScR Overheat and Reduce Damage Slightly i like your changes to amar assault and lr / scr skills i dislike your idea of buffing the lr directly so im undecided as whether to give u a like personally i dont want an av laser rifle i want a breach laser rifle and i want an av amar scrambler lance and infantry amar scrambler lance ....both heavy weapons
None of those bonuses are guaranteed besides the Clip Size. Range doesn't really matter, the rest are for show.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.11.03 03:20:00 -
[44] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Okay Forever, we need to collaborate on this, I'm currently working on Amarr Commando Balancing so I am going to pop this thread in here and see if we can work together. I honestly do not think we can not balance one without changing the other. Well we can but we should balance both at the same time. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220063&find=unread
Will have a look right quick.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
2
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Posted - 2015.11.03 11:51:00 -
[45] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Solution:
Amarr Assault Bonus- 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown
LR/ScR Operation Bonus- 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown
Power disparity between Laser Weaponry on Non-Amarr Dropsuits and Amarr Assaults is lessen, Amarr Assault still remains as top choice. Laser Weaponry can now be balanced on the weapon not the suit. Laser Weaponry is now viable on all suits not just 1(2?) out of 20.
~Adjustments After Solution~
Laser Rifle:
- Increase Clip Size to 150 from 100
- Increase Range to 120m
- Add AV Variant
- LR Sound Increases with Firing Time
- ADS Sensitivity equal to Sensitivity in Settings
Scrambler Rifle:
- Increase Scope Zoom
- Increase Hipfire Dispersion
- Make Holding Charge cause Overheat
- Make AScR Overheat and Reduce Damage Slightly i like your changes to amar assault and lr / scr skills i dislike your idea of buffing the lr directly so im undecided as whether to give u a like personally i dont want an av laser rifle i want a breach laser rifle and i want an av amar scrambler lance and infantry amar scrambler lance ....both heavy weapons None of those bonuses are guaranteed besides the Clip Size. Range doesn't really matter, the rest are for show.
range matters clip is irrelevant and completely unneeded i see no reason for either of those buffs is all i do see a reason to reword amar weapons bonuses and assault bonuses to make them slightly better on other suits and lower the difference between on an amar assault and not
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THEAMAZING POTHEAD
Nyain San
1
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Posted - 2015.11.03 15:18:00 -
[46] - Quote
Only OP laser rifle is clearly the viktors, which while its supposed to OP as an officer wep, is still over the line IMO, having a proto armarr and viziam with damage mods, i can say its good but i don't think its better than combat rifles or rail rifles, but it competes with them pretty well. Especially with how armor stacked armarr suits are easily killable with low speed. Fast min assaults with CR's are the best suit/wep combos imo because of contstant blue shielding hit detection at close range but I digress.
My only thoughts on the laser debate is that people in dust were never used to being killed, and other weapons need to be buffed so people in protos or heavy suits can get used to being killed, Its not a god given right to not die in a video game, and I shouldn't be going 15/0 every game i pull out a proto CR/LR/RR/HMG against a team without a squad, before theyre redlined. If a new player comes in and has 400hp and has 400dps against a vet with 1700 hp and 700 dps somethings wrong.
Your post is making me facepalm. ò.ó
Nyan!~~=[,,..,,]:3
Nyain SanGäó (rated ® for rape) is currently accepting hatemails.
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.11.06 00:45:00 -
[47] - Quote
Bump
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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sizwe sizzle
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
Damage LLC
5
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Posted - 2015.11.06 06:01:00 -
[48] - Quote
This guy wants ammar assault to be nerfed to the ground and better yet ccp us nerfing the scr so what would be the point to use ammar assault with the scr.either way I don't use ammar assault with scr I use it with kalakiota rr because people like this guy want the scr to be dead
I got a cloud empire and I'm a king like everyone else
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.11.06 14:42:00 -
[49] - Quote
sizwe sizzle wrote:This guy wants ammar assault to be nerfed to the ground and better yet ccp us nerfing the scr so what would be the point to use ammar assault with the scr.either way I don't use ammar assault with scr I use it with kalakiota rr because people like this guy want the scr to be dead
Did you even read anything in this thread? I have already answered this statement... I'll say it again, the Amarr Assault would technically stay the same, but other suits can now access Laser Weaponry.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
2
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Posted - 2015.11.08 14:51:00 -
[50] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:sizwe sizzle wrote:This guy wants ammar assault to be nerfed to the ground and better yet ccp us nerfing the scr so what would be the point to use ammar assault with the scr.either way I don't use ammar assault with scr I use it with kalakiota rr because people like this guy want the scr to be dead Did you even read anything in this thread? I have already answered this statement... I'll say it again, the Amarr Assault would technically stay the same, but other suits can now access Laser Weaponry.
amarr assault gets gets 3% heat reduction, 2% cooldown.
But the operation 2% heat reduction, 3% cooldown
my preferred fix ...
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.11.08 18:48:00 -
[51] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:Forever ETC wrote:sizwe sizzle wrote:This guy wants ammar assault to be nerfed to the ground and better yet ccp us nerfing the scr so what would be the point to use ammar assault with the scr.either way I don't use ammar assault with scr I use it with kalakiota rr because people like this guy want the scr to be dead Did you even read anything in this thread? I have already answered this statement... I'll say it again, the Amarr Assault would technically stay the same, but other suits can now access Laser Weaponry. amarr assault gets gets 3% heat reduction, 2% cooldown. But the operation 2% heat reduction, 3% cooldown my preferred fix ...
Thank You! That is exactly what I'm pushing for. I don't play anymore, so if anything can get changed, I want that to at least get through.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
2
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Posted - 2015.11.08 18:58:00 -
[52] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:Forever ETC wrote:sizwe sizzle wrote:This guy wants ammar assault to be nerfed to the ground and better yet ccp us nerfing the scr so what would be the point to use ammar assault with the scr.either way I don't use ammar assault with scr I use it with kalakiota rr because people like this guy want the scr to be dead Did you even read anything in this thread? I have already answered this statement... I'll say it again, the Amarr Assault would technically stay the same, but other suits can now access Laser Weaponry. amarr assault gets gets 3% heat reduction, 2% cooldown. But the operation 2% heat reduction, 3% cooldown my preferred fix ... Thank You! That is exactly what I'm pushing for. I don't play anymore, so if anything can get changed, I want that to at least get through.
it is a perfect fix skilled up lrs on non amar assaults will overheat around 70 and on amar assault nothing will change
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PORT IT CCP
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.11.13 22:56:00 -
[53] - Quote
Bump
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.11.21 00:01:00 -
[54] - Quote
Bump
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
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tritan abbattere
DBAG CORE
64
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Posted - 2015.11.21 03:38:00 -
[55] - Quote
Just a thought but why not give all weapons heat build up? if all suits had a benefit to all weapons that fit the races ideals that might be better. Just food for thought.
I am the all mighty Tritan. Fear me for I am a MassHole
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.11.22 21:19:00 -
[56] - Quote
tritan abbattere wrote:Just a thought but why not give all weapons heat build up? if all suits had a benefit to all weapons that fit the races ideals that might be better. Just food for thought.
That would just create another months work of balancing and adding the mechanics... From what I remember, Legion would add different effects to the weapons(heat, jamming etc) based on the planets environment.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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tritan abbattere
DBAG CORE
64
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Posted - 2015.11.23 08:02:00 -
[57] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:tritan abbattere wrote:Just a thought but why not give all weapons heat build up? if all suits had a benefit to all weapons that fit the races ideals that might be better. Just food for thought. That would just create another months work of balancing and adding the mechanics... From what I remember, Legion would add different effects to the weapons(heat, jamming etc) based on the planets environment.
It is true that it would take a while to balance it out but it would give them more room to balance stuff. Its another tool to help them out. Why I Wanted to point it out.
I am the all mighty Tritan. Fear me for I am a MassHole
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Raven-747
WarRavens
Imperium Eden
262
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Posted - 2015.12.02 02:04:00 -
[58] - Quote
First of all Bump.
Now lets talk about the topic. Damn I love the changes to LR, the sound increases as more you fire it? Awesome! Hell I say give the beam spirals around it when close to overheating! Yes LR as AV is something cool and that way no reason to add new laser AV weapons. So +1 to all of the above.
Now the Scr and Ascr. I loved the bonuses on the gun's passives this will encourage its use on all the other suits but ofc it will remain superior on the amarr assault. This is absolutely fair since this is the case with other rifles as well. I'm against the Scr scope zoom as this will only give those qqers another reason to start spamming threads. My personal thoughts on overheating mechanic:
Firstly, FIX THE DAM OVERHEATING CCP.
I like the idea of the bar increasing when you hold the charge for too long. How about making it 3 secs? Like if you hold the charge for 3 secs or more the bar will start to rise. Also another 3 secs until you can charge without heating the gun.
I'm fine with the Ascr overheating, but at the cost of reducing the muzzle jump during scope fire.
Give Scr the place that it really deserves, because at this point it is highly inferior.
When you headshot a frontline with proto
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.12.02 04:55:00 -
[59] - Quote
Raven-747 wrote:First of all Bump.
Now lets talk about the topic. Damn I love the changes to LR, the sound increases as more you fire it? Awesome! Hell I say give the beam spirals around it when close to overheating! Yes LR as AV is something cool and that way no reason to add new laser AV weapons. So +1 to all of the above.
Now the Scr and Ascr. I loved the bonuses on the gun's passives this will encourage its use on all the other suits but ofc it will remain superior on the amarr assault. This is absolutely fair since this is the case with other rifles as well. I'm against the Scr scope zoom as this will only give those qqers another reason to start spamming threads. My personal thoughts on overheating mechanic:
Firstly, FIX THE DAM OVERHEATING CCP.
I like the idea of the bar increasing when you hold the charge for too long. How about making it 3 secs? Like if you hold the charge for 3 secs or more the bar will start to rise. Also another 3 secs until you can charge without heating the gun.
I'm fine with the Ascr overheating, but at the cost of reducing the muzzle jump during scope fire.
Give Scr the place that it really deserves, because at this point it is highly inferior.
Thanks for the support!
I agree with the time frame you presented for holding the charge. Now concerning the ScR scope it is quite in a poor state especially now with the added 4x kick. It is meant to be a mid to long range fighter but with such a high kick, poor zoom, and basic mechanics(spam to kil), something needs to be done to get it at range and out of the front lines. I would personally just make it a bit less(25%) to what the Darths has. For the AScR muzzle flash/jump, I believe it is all just visual, you are firing pretty accurate but you just are not seeing it... Yes, it is annoying and I believe should be toned down considerably to stop adjusting so much.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.12.14 05:32:00 -
[60] - Quote
Bump till noticed
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
572
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Posted - 2015.12.14 19:02:00 -
[61] - Quote
A fun quirk of the current heat system in DUST (As I've come to understand it through what experimentation I can do):
The heat/s metric appears to be the core metric; however, the heat IS ADDED PER SHOT. This implication is that increasing the RoF of a Laser Weapon decreases the Heat/shot.
So...if you incorporated a Rate of Fire bonus on the Amarr Assault, it would have a similar effect to decreasing the heat/s metric on the suits.
Just something I thought I'd bring up considering the RoF bonus on the Gallente Assault Currently.
Other than that...if I hadn't said it already, I do like the idea of the change proposed...but don't want it to be limited to the given metrics.
oh yeah...bump?
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2015.12.15 05:28:00 -
[62] - Quote
Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:A fun quirk of the current heat system in DUST (As I've come to understand it through what experimentation I can do):
The heat/s metric appears to be the core metric; however, the heat IS ADDED PER SHOT. This implication is that increasing the RoF of a Laser Weapon decreases the Heat/shot.
So...if you incorporated a Rate of Fire bonus on the Amarr Assault, it would have a similar effect to decreasing the heat/s metric on the suits.
Just something I thought I'd bring up considering the RoF bonus on the Gallente Assault Currently.
Other than that...if I hadn't said it already, I do like the idea of the change proposed...but don't want it to be limited to the given metrics.
oh yeah...bump?
Interesting, I have seen some of the work you and Aeon have tested with heat calculations and damage of the ScR. Cool to see their are other ways to basically receive the same result without actually touching the heat management. The only problem I see is the fact people will see it as another buff not a balance or understand how it would work. Thanks for the support and the research you have done to understand these weapons.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
574
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Posted - 2015.12.18 17:21:00 -
[63] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:A fun quirk of the current heat system in DUST (As I've come to understand it through what experimentation I can do):
The heat/s metric appears to be the core metric; however, the heat IS ADDED PER SHOT. This implication is that increasing the RoF of a Laser Weapon decreases the Heat/shot.
So...if you incorporated a Rate of Fire bonus on the Amarr Assault, it would have a similar effect to decreasing the heat/s metric on the suits.
Just something I thought I'd bring up considering the RoF bonus on the Gallente Assault Currently.
Other than that...if I hadn't said it already, I do like the idea of the change proposed...but don't want it to be limited to the given metrics.
oh yeah...bump? Interesting, I have seen some of the work you and Aeon have tested with heat calculations and damage of the ScR. Cool to see their are other ways to basically receive the same result without actually touching the heat management. The only problem I see is the fact people will see it as another buff not a balance or understand how it would work. Thanks for the support and the research you have done to understand these weapons.
I did research because I helped perpetuate misinformation on the ScR/LR back in the day...so I was hoping to help dispel that info. I might try to post the way heat mechanics (to my understanding based on the experimental data and SDE) work in this thread later.
Also, I would absolutely love it if this game's Dedicated Marksman's Rifle was changed to behave more like a Dedicated Marksman's Rifle while being more viable on a wider variety of suits (Amarr Logi Marksman FTW!)
also Bump!
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#PortDust514 ...Preferably to both PS4 and PC
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Georgia Xavier
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.12.18 17:54:00 -
[64] - Quote
Maybe if I offer ccp a blood sacrifice they would actually look at weapons properly instead of outright killing them
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Thaddeus Reynolds
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Posted - 2015.12.28 18:14:00 -
[65] - Quote
Bump...because reasons
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Twelve Guage
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
1
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Posted - 2015.12.28 23:19:00 -
[66] - Quote
because reasons is about right.
The Mistress of Massdrivers
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Thaddeus Reynolds
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Posted - 2016.01.04 16:13:00 -
[67] - Quote
Back to page one with this thread!
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
#PortDust514 ...Preferably to both PS4 and PC
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Balamob
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
66
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Posted - 2016.01.04 17:05:00 -
[68] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Solution:
Amarr Assault Bonus- 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown
LR/ScR Operation Bonus- 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown
Power disparity between Laser Weaponry on Non-Amarr Dropsuits and Amarr Assaults is lessen, Amarr Assault still remains as top choice. Laser Weaponry can now be balanced on the weapon not the suit. Laser Weaponry is now viable on all suits not just 1(2?) out of 20.
~Adjustments After Solution~
Laser Rifle:
- Increase Clip Size to 150 from 100
- Increase Range to 120m
- Add AV Variant
- LR Sound Increases with Firing Time
- ADS Sensitivity equal to Sensitivity in Settings
Scrambler Rifle:
- Increase Scope Zoom
- Increase Hipfire Dispersion
- Make Holding Charge cause Overheat
- Make AScR Overheat and Reduce Damage Slightly
If they wanted laser weaponry to be useful on no-assault amarr, they should switch the cooldown bonus of all laser operation weaponry to amarr and the heat reduction to laser operation, an extra 2% or 1% per lvl to DMG against armor can help the assault to have an extra edge on those weapons, more cooldown, extra slight heat reduction or even accuracy. Im not sure about the last option, maybe too much, but something extra is needed.
Assault ak.0, Sentinel ak.0, Scout ak.0.
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
642
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Posted - 2016.01.23 06:43:00 -
[69] - Quote
A Greater Discussion Must be Had on this...
Apothecary Reviving...
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#PortDust514 ...Preferably to both PS4 and PC
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
18
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Posted - 2016.01.24 15:56:00 -
[70] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Solution:
Amarr Assault Bonus- 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown
LR/ScR Operation Bonus- 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown
Power disparity between Laser Weaponry on Non-Amarr Dropsuits and Amarr Assaults is lessen, Amarr Assault still remains as top choice. Laser Weaponry can now be balanced on the weapon not the suit. Laser Weaponry is now viable on all suits not just 1(2?) out of 20.
~Adjustments After Solution~
Laser Rifle:
- Increase Clip Size to 150 from 100
- Increase Range to 120m
- Add AV Variant
- LR Sound Increases with Firing Time
- ADS Sensitivity equal to Sensitivity in Settings
Scrambler Rifle:
- Increase Scope Zoom
- Increase Hipfire Dispersion
- Make Holding Charge cause Overheat
- Make AScR Overheat and Reduce Damage Slightly
Seems reasonable. +1
Any concerns about AM Commando + LR? In my experience, it already hits pretty hard toward the end of its clip.
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Forever ETC
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Posted - 2016.01.24 17:50:00 -
[71] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Solution:
Amarr Assault Bonus- 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown
LR/ScR Operation Bonus- 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown
Power disparity between Laser Weaponry on Non-Amarr Dropsuits and Amarr Assaults is lessen, Amarr Assault still remains as top choice. Laser Weaponry can now be balanced on the weapon not the suit. Laser Weaponry is now viable on all suits not just 1(2?) out of 20.
~Adjustments After Solution~
Laser Rifle:
- Increase Clip Size to 150 from 100
- Increase Range to 120m
- Add AV Variant
- LR Sound Increases with Firing Time
- ADS Sensitivity equal to Sensitivity in Settings
Scrambler Rifle:
- Increase Scope Zoom
- Increase Hipfire Dispersion
- Make Holding Charge cause Overheat
- Make AScR Overheat and Reduce Damage Slightly Seems reasonable. +1 Any concerns about AM Commando + LR? In my experience, it already hits pretty hard toward the end of its clip.
Thanks for the support.
No concerns because this won't happen :) I don't think it will reach the levels of being Op but it will definitely become a bigger threat to infantry on the field. Usually it is the skilled LR users that make use of the last rounds of the weapon, if it does rise to be an issue.... We may need to reduce the base damage or the damage multiplier as there would be a new damage potential on all suits.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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