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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1
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Posted - 2015.10.01 23:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Solution:
Amarr Assault Bonus- 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown
LR/ScR Operation Bonus- 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown
Power disparity between Laser Weaponry on Non-Amarr Dropsuits and Amarr Assaults is lessen, Amarr Assault still remains as top choice. Laser Weaponry can now be balanced on the weapon not the suit. Laser Weaponry is now viable on all suits not just 1(2?) out of 20.
~Adjustments After Solution~
Laser Rifle:
- Increase Clip Size to 150 from 100
- Increase Range to 120m
- Add AV Variant
- LR Sound Increases with Firing Time
- ADS Sensitivity equal to Sensitivity in Settings
Scrambler Rifle:
- Increase Scope Zoom
- Increase Hipfire Dispersion
- Make Holding Charge cause Overheat
- Make AScR Overheat and Reduce Damage Slightly
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Regnier Feros
Pielords
825
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Posted - 2015.10.01 23:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why not give the Am assault quicker cooldown + lower seize up?
I LIKE PIE
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1
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Posted - 2015.10.01 23:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Regnier Feros wrote:Why not give the Am assault quicker cooldown + lower seize up?
I still want overheat to be an actual punishment not something that can be easily shrugged off. By doing this I feel overheat management will be dismissed as you'll be back in action quickly.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
21
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Posted - 2015.10.02 00:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Regnier Feros wrote:Why not give the Am assault quicker cooldown + lower seize up?
Honestly not worth having.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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Dingleburt Bangledack
Dingle's Berry Farms
421
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Posted - 2015.10.02 04:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
+1 All the way, OP.  |
Georgia Xavier
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.10.02 13:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Can I have your autograph on my laser weapons?
Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
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Kierkegaard Soren
Eridani Light Horse Battalion
936
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Posted - 2015.10.02 16:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
If you make the heat reduction exclusive to the amassault then all laser weapons will remain a total PITA to balance for all suit types/players. Whilst lowering the amount to 3% certainly lessens the disparity, the disparity still exists, and more crucially, on anything other than the amassault the scram becomes really difficult to use; it is so easy to overheat unless you reign in your willingness to engage the enemy and take a breather after every fight, which in practical terms means you're leaving yourself open to counter-attacks. Pushing a point with a scram in a suit that is *not* an amassault is a miserable affair.
I understand that rewarding players for screwing up (overheating in this case) seems like a backwards idea, but I consider the penalties of a short seize duration *and* feedback damage (albiet lessened if we changed the amassault bonus to lessen seize penalties) to still be severe enough to still be a cause for concern for any amassault player. But as a reward, they have the option to empty a scram's magazine with only a short delay at around two-thirds of rounds fired, which would allow them to push harder than any other suit using laser weaponry. I think that's a pretty cool, lore-flavoured bonus.
The Operational skill is, to my mind, defunct; heat build-up is per second fired, not per shot fired, so spacing out your trigger inputs to allow the gun to cool between firing doesn't happen, and when you overheat you cool down. When you reload, you cool down. That 25% is just not useful to anyone. If we change the Operationals to 3% heat reduction per level then we're making all laser weapons easier to use, and therefore more accessable, to all players, and not just amassault ones. I think that is a desirable thing to have.
But on the balance of things, I think OP's ideas will be more likely to be implemented if, as I predict, the community gets pretty shouty at CCP after the hotfix drops. I'm a little bit too outside the box with my own solution, so +1 to this too.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
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Ateroith
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
152
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Posted - 2015.10.03 00:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
I agree. My MLT Laser Rifle does absolutely nothing. I would gladly agree to those upgrades!
"...Rule #2 - Never start a fight. Rule #3 - Never lose one either." - Lee Child
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maeth-01 2501
Splash-Damaged LLC
71
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Posted - 2015.10.03 00:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
Is that not the Point of it being an Amarr Bonus.... There gun works best on there suit..... Caldari have better reload on there guns.... so on and so forth
I can sorta see your point but I think your missing there's...... plus I like the fact my Viktor does not overheat
Laugh, and the world laughs with you;Weep, and you weep alone
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1
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Posted - 2015.10.03 01:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
maeth-01 2501 wrote:Is that not the Point of it being an Amarr Bonus.... There gun works best on there suit..... Caldari have better reload on there guns.... so on and so forth
I can sorta see your point but I think your missing there's...... plus I like the fact my Viktor does not overheat
The difference between the Amarr Assault and other suits is it's bonus has the biggest factor on the Weaponry. You can use the Rail Rifle on other suits and not feel like your missing out on much, why shouldn't the ScR/Laser be the same?
The Amarr Assault will still be king, just without a higher thrown. While I see what your getting at, quite honestly I'm tired of the nerfs coming to these weapons because everyone assume you have Proto Amarr Assault, Viziam and Triple Stacked Damage Mods. These weapons should be treated equally to any other of the main battle rifles.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
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Posted - 2015.10.03 16:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
.
.
.
The first part, the analysis, is spot on and a very good post.
That really is the big downside in giv+¡ng signicifact kill power suit bonuses towards certain weapons.
Dust is good because it has generally avoided those.
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1
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Posted - 2015.10.04 22:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bump
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Ama Zarek
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
23
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Posted - 2015.10.05 11:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Do not agree.
However Being able to wipe out shields in seconds - The shield rep tool is missing.
The overheat vs damage to armor and shields are quite massive - if you do not have max skills.
Max skills in any other weapon kills me as well. |
Georgia Xavier
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.10.05 12:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ama Zarek wrote:Do not agree.
However Being able to wipe out shields in seconds - The shield rep tool is missing.
The overheat vs damage to armor and shields are quite massive - if you do not have max skills.
Max skills in any other weapon kills me as well.
Elaborating why you don't agree would help
Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
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Regnier Feros
Dead Man's Game
851
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Posted - 2015.10.05 14:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bump
I LIKE PIE
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LOL KILLZ
LulKlz
386
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Posted - 2015.10.05 16:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Solution:
Amarr Assault Bonus- 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown
LR/ScR Operation Bonus- 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown
Power disparity between Laser Weaponry on Non-Amarr Dropsuits and Amarr Assaults is lessen, Amarr Assault still remains as top choice. Laser Weaponry can now be balanced on the weapon not the suit. Laser Weaponry is now viable on all suits not just 1(2?) out of 20.
~Adjustments After Solution~
Laser Rifle:
- Increase Clip Size to 150 from 100
- Increase Range to 120m
- Add AV Variant
- LR Sound Increases with Firing Time
- ADS Sensitivity equal to Sensitivity in Settings
Scrambler Rifle:
- Increase Scope Zoom
- Increase Hipfire Dispersion
- Make Holding Charge cause Overheat
- Make AScR Overheat and Reduce Damage Slightly
The AmAss bonus is the only thing making the LR still viable in combat. So no
\0/
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Georgia Xavier
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.10.05 16:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
LOL KILLZ wrote:Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Solution:
Amarr Assault Bonus- 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown
LR/ScR Operation Bonus- 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown
Power disparity between Laser Weaponry on Non-Amarr Dropsuits and Amarr Assaults is lessen, Amarr Assault still remains as top choice. Laser Weaponry can now be balanced on the weapon not the suit. Laser Weaponry is now viable on all suits not just 1(2?) out of 20.
~Adjustments After Solution~
Laser Rifle:
- Increase Clip Size to 150 from 100
- Increase Range to 120m
- Add AV Variant
- LR Sound Increases with Firing Time
- ADS Sensitivity equal to Sensitivity in Settings
Scrambler Rifle:
- Increase Scope Zoom
- Increase Hipfire Dispersion
- Make Holding Charge cause Overheat
- Make AScR Overheat and Reduce Damage Slightly The AmAss bonus is the only thing making the LR still viable in combat. So no
You can tweak the laser rifle after we balance the amarr assault
Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1
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Posted - 2015.10.05 21:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
LOL KILLZ wrote:Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Solution:
Amarr Assault Bonus- 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown
LR/ScR Operation Bonus- 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown
Power disparity between Laser Weaponry on Non-Amarr Dropsuits and Amarr Assaults is lessen, Amarr Assault still remains as top choice. Laser Weaponry can now be balanced on the weapon not the suit. Laser Weaponry is now viable on all suits not just 1(2?) out of 20.
~Adjustments After Solution~
Laser Rifle:
- Increase Clip Size to 150 from 100
- Increase Range to 120m
- Add AV Variant
- LR Sound Increases with Firing Time
- ADS Sensitivity equal to Sensitivity in Settings
Scrambler Rifle:
- Increase Scope Zoom
- Increase Hipfire Dispersion
- Make Holding Charge cause Overheat
- Make AScR Overheat and Reduce Damage Slightly The AmAss bonus is the only thing making the LR still viable in combat. So no
If you see the part where it says Laser Rifle I've included a list of possible adjustments. With these upcoming changes I have proposed it is basically just a buff to Laser Weaponry on other suits, Amarr Assault are going to stay rather the same.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1
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Posted - 2015.10.09 01:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bump Foxfour
Seems the proposed nerfs aren't really noticeable... Was really worried on the 4x kick.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 22:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Bump Until Noticed
After further testing... Charge Shot is okayish, ScR needs better Scope Zoom to compensate for Kick which has made long range engagements difficult.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Vesta Opalus
PROJECT OF KILLERS.
RUST415
1
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Posted - 2015.10.16 02:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Been saying this for a while, have a bump and stuff |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
4
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Posted - 2015.10.16 11:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
I was about to open a post on this.
While the bonus is good on scr rifle, it doesn't fit very well on laser rifle imo.
Without bonus you have a shorter max damage window, but you also reach working temperature faster, consuming less charge (60 charges before overheat)
In this way you can have almost 2 high damage windows within a single clip.
With the amarr bonus you have only one (80 charges before overheat), then you have to reload because with 20 charges you'll do nothing.
Am assault should have a bonus on LR clip to bring it to 140-150 or a bonus reducing overheat cooldown.
Regressed to blueberry level.
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1
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Posted - 2015.10.16 13:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:I was about to open a post on this.
While the bonus is good on scr rifle, it doesn't fit very well on laser rifle imo.
Without bonus you have a shorter max damage window, but you also reach working temperature faster, consuming less charge (60 charges before overheat)
In this way you can have almost 2 high damage windows within a single clip.
With the amarr bonus you have only one (80 charges before overheat), then you have to reload because with 20 charges you'll do nothing.
Am assault should have a bonus on LR clip to bring it to 140-150 or a bonus reducing overheat cooldown.
You're bring an interesting point, I may consider keeping the proposed Amarr Assault Bonus and change the Operational Skill from the LR to say Seize Time(Cooldown is useless TBH)? That change should keep the LR on the Amarr Assault to overheat around the 70s I think. After the LR discussion a few weeks ago, I believe one of the main changes that was agreed upon was to increase the LR clipsize over 100, we should see that change sometime.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
4
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Posted - 2015.10.16 21:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:
Seize Time(Cooldown is useless TBH)
That was what i was thinking, but didn't find the right words
Regressed to blueberry level.
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1
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Posted - 2015.10.19 21:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
VIZZZZIAM
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Georgia Xavier
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.10.19 23:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
I want the old laser rifle sound back,current one sounds like a garden hose
Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1
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Posted - 2015.10.25 20:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
Bump
Will be quitting the game, but I'll still be keeping this post up.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
3
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Posted - 2015.10.26 07:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Solution:
Amarr Assault Bonus- 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown
LR/ScR Operation Bonus- 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown
Power disparity between Laser Weaponry on Non-Amarr Dropsuits and Amarr Assaults is lessen, Amarr Assault still remains as top choice. Laser Weaponry can now be balanced on the weapon not the suit. Laser Weaponry is now viable on all suits not just 1(2?) out of 20.
~Adjustments After Solution~
Laser Rifle:
- Increase Clip Size to 150 from 100
- Increase Range to 120m
- Add AV Variant
- LR Sound Increases with Firing Time
- ADS Sensitivity equal to Sensitivity in Settings
Scrambler Rifle:
- Increase Scope Zoom
- Increase Hipfire Dispersion
- Make Holding Charge cause Overheat
- Make AScR Overheat and Reduce Damage Slightly
What are your thoughts on the fact that laser weaponry is the only weaponry which is able to multiply its own damage and therefore receives an amazingly higher benefit from the warbarge, damage mods, and even proficiency?
Is this an actual problem?
How do we address that instead of balancing around players who have and don't have those things at a high level?
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1
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Posted - 2015.10.26 08:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:Forever ETC wrote:The Problem: ScR and LR can't be balanced properly due to how a huge factor the Amarr Assault bonus gives. Balance of these weapons always keeps in mind the Amarr Assault bonus not the weapon itself thus leading the weapon to only be effective on one suit and terrible on any other.
Solution:
Amarr Assault Bonus- 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown
LR/ScR Operation Bonus- 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown
Power disparity between Laser Weaponry on Non-Amarr Dropsuits and Amarr Assaults is lessen, Amarr Assault still remains as top choice. Laser Weaponry can now be balanced on the weapon not the suit. Laser Weaponry is now viable on all suits not just 1(2?) out of 20.
~Adjustments After Solution~
Laser Rifle:
- Increase Clip Size to 150 from 100
- Increase Range to 120m
- Add AV Variant
- LR Sound Increases with Firing Time
- ADS Sensitivity equal to Sensitivity in Settings
Scrambler Rifle:
- Increase Scope Zoom
- Increase Hipfire Dispersion
- Make Holding Charge cause Overheat
- Make AScR Overheat and Reduce Damage Slightly What are your thoughts on the fact that laser weaponry is the only weaponry which is able to multiply its own damage and therefore receives an amazingly higher benefit from the warbarge, damage mods, and even proficiency? Is this an actual problem? How do we address that instead of balancing around players who have and don't have those things at a high level?
Okay, it's a bit late but I'll try to answer. May not be what you're looking for...
The multiplier I believe should stay as is, it was makes these weapons unique and honestly wish more than two guns had these interesting features which have lead to investigations of what the potential damage is.
I don't believe it is such a huge deal, but here are a few sh*t fixes.
Change function of Warbarge direct damage bonus
Reduce Laser Weaponry Efficiency to +15/-15
Change how Damage Mods behave between base damage and multiplier damage.
Quite honestly I don't know how to balance the power gap between user with starter and maxed skills into these weapons. There is simply too much that changes the potential damage which leads to this gap. Most weapons you just have a base damage that changes per levels but here you got two things to worry about, and one can reach some godly numbers.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Georgia Xavier
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.10.27 13:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bump!
Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
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