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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 16:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
this thread isnt about whether or not the suit combined with the double flux is op
this thread is about how little wps intel assists reward does anyone else feel like the gal logi dramatically unper forms in wp earning?
i feel like the suit just doesnt make enough wp to benefit
i think regardless of whether or not the gal logi is getting nerfed ccp should buff the rewards for scanning to bring the gal logis wp levels up to the other logis
my amar and min logi easy make double the wp my gal logi does
while scans may be greatly rewarding to the team they are not really rewarding for the logi carrying them..thats two equipment that are giving you crap for wp which also means that you make less isk at the end of the match.
are there any people whos only role is the gal logi? do you feel it under performs on the leader boards?
(romulus hex) suggested solution move scans back to squad only and buff wp rewards
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Reign Omega
L0RDS 0F LEGI0N
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 16:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why? You can use all the same equipment.
Hell naw...to the naw naw naw...hell to the naw.
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HOWDIDHEKILLME
Dying to Reload
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 17:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Your helping the team win win you use it. I'd rather have a galogi on my team than a sniper any day. |
Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 17:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Gal logis are just fine.
UNTIL I start getting points for everyone who kills anyone I have scanned, it will remain just fine.
The major drawback of scans are they you get little to no WP for all your efforts and isk.
The C.E.O. of G.L.O.R.Y,
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Raven-747
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
191
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Posted - 2015.09.27 17:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Who asked you to use 4 scanners and perma scan the entire team like a pesky little gal logi. Use other equipments like the reps or needle for a change genius.
Get rid of lag
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 17:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:Gal logis are just fine.
UNTIL I start getting points for everyone who kills anyone I have scanned, it will remain just fine.
The major drawback of scans are they you get little to no WP for all your efforts and isk.
thats what im saying you get like nothing for rewards
i dont even use gal logi in pubs its a pc only suit because its just not an earner i mean its a great help to your team..but im only ok with using a role that has no real personal benefit in pc
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.27 17:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Raven-747 wrote:Who asked you to use 4 scanners and perma scan the entire team like a pesky little gal logi. Use other equipments like the reps or needle for a change genius.
but the fact of the matter is out of all the logis gal logi gets the least reward for its specialty
all other logis main gear makes them more wp
ps why on earth would anyone run 4 freaking scanners 2 fluxs is all you need
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CallMeNoName
PIXXXIE
90
|
Posted - 2015.09.27 17:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:Raven-747 wrote:Who asked you to use 4 scanners and perma scan the entire team like a pesky little gal logi. Use other equipments like the reps or needle for a change genius. but the fact of the matter is out of all the logis gal logi gets the least reward for its specialty all other logis main gear makes them more wp ps why on earth would anyone run 4 freaking scanners 2 fluxs is all you need
I guess the only gear that Gal Logis can equip is Scanners, huh...
It's not like the scanners reveal where the enemy is so you can kill them or something...
Core Nades can't melt Amarr Sentinels.
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TIGER SHARK1501
Savage Bullet
RUST415
424
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Posted - 2015.09.27 17:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Raven-747 wrote:Who asked you to use 4 scanners and perma scan the entire team like a pesky little gal logi. Use other equipments like the reps or needle for a change genius.
That's right!! I only use 3 proto scanners on my Min logi. Why would anyone need 4??  |
Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 17:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
CallMeNoName wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:Raven-747 wrote:Who asked you to use 4 scanners and perma scan the entire team like a pesky little gal logi. Use other equipments like the reps or needle for a change genius. but the fact of the matter is out of all the logis gal logi gets the least reward for its specialty all other logis main gear makes them more wp ps why on earth would anyone run 4 freaking scanners 2 fluxs is all you need I guess the only gear that Gal Logis can equip is Scanners, huh... It's not like the scanners reveal where the enemy is so you can kill them or something...
well the point of this thread seems to have been completely missed by several people ..let me try and make this simple
scans not giving enough wp
when compared to
uplinks amarr
reps minmatar
nanos caldari
none of the other logis have to run other gear i understand that they do run other gear
but they dont have to
in order to make effective wp ona gal logi you have to run other gear because you specialty is NOT REWARDING to you personally only to your team
am i speaking russian here or something
logi main stat is wp ....
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Summa Militum
Art.of.Death
922
|
Posted - 2015.09.27 17:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:this thread isnt about whether or not the suit combined with the double flux is op
this thread is about how little wps intel assists reward does anyone else feel like the gal logi dramatically unper forms in wp earning?
i feel like the suit just doesnt make enough wp to benefit
i think regardless of whether or not the gal logi is getting nerfed ccp should buff the rewards for scanning to bring the gal logis wp levels up to the other logis
my amar and min logi easy make double the wp my gal logi does
while scans may be greatly rewarding to the team they are not really rewarding for the logi carrying them..thats two equipment that are giving you crap for wp which also means that you make less isk at the end of the match.
are there any people whos only role is the gal logi? do you feel it under performs on the leader boards?
I primarily run solo so I never get intel WPs for running my GalLogi which is ********. I run all Gallente Suits but my primary suit is the GalAssault. If I switch to my GalLogi to provide scans I am doing it to benefit my team yet I get no reward for doing that.
Meanwhile squads who don't know a damn thing about running and assisting a full team get all the praise and WPs are just handed to them.
CCP, stop treating solo players like second-class citizens. We're ******* human beings too! |
ROMULUS H3X
research lab
754
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Posted - 2015.09.27 17:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kinda think team scans should be done with, make it squad only as it used to be.. then we should be able to boost WP.
Win and WIN.
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 17:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
ROMULUS H3X wrote:Kinda think team scans should be done with, make it squad only as it used to be.. then we should be able to boost WP.
Win and WIN.
ahh an opinion i respect i do not run gal logi enough to say about whether or not scans should be made squad only but +1 rom +1
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.27 17:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Summa Militum wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:this thread isnt about whether or not the suit combined with the double flux is op
this thread is about how little wps intel assists reward does anyone else feel like the gal logi dramatically unper forms in wp earning?
i feel like the suit just doesnt make enough wp to benefit
i think regardless of whether or not the gal logi is getting nerfed ccp should buff the rewards for scanning to bring the gal logis wp levels up to the other logis
my amar and min logi easy make double the wp my gal logi does
while scans may be greatly rewarding to the team they are not really rewarding for the logi carrying them..thats two equipment that are giving you crap for wp which also means that you make less isk at the end of the match.
are there any people whos only role is the gal logi? do you feel it under performs on the leader boards? I primarily run solo so I never get intel WPs for running my GalLogi which is ********. I run all Gallente Suits but my primary suit is the GalAssault. If I switch to my GalLogi to provide scans I am doing it to benefit my team yet I get no reward for doing that. Meanwhile squads who don't know a damn thing about running and assisting a full team get all the praise and WPs are just handed to them. CCP, stop treating solo players like second-class citizens. We're ******* human beings too!
thank you for your input i agree obviously
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HOWDIDHEKILLME
Dying to Reload
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 18:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
If wp where given for team kill's instead of squad then people would just sit back with 4 of them and hand there team a likely win while reaping lots of wp all while staying out of harms way. Helping your team so much should be reward enuf. |
Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.27 18:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote:If wp where given for team kill's instead of squad then people would just sit back with 4 of them and hand there team a likely win while reaping lots of wp all while staying out of harms way. Helping your team so much should be reward enuf.
mmm but every other logi gets wp for helping their team those wps give them a leader board ranking and allow them to make more isk
gal logi is the least isk efficient logi because of this
thats why i think romulus's idea is the optimal one
remove team scans make them squad only and buff the wps for intel kill assists this also makes scans less op
mot once in this thread did i suggest wps be rewarded for team kills btw
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 18:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
You have for slots:
Use them
2 scans, needle, rep, get good intel, pick up frineds, rep for WP.
Gal logi only gets bad WP if you use 4 scans and hopw for 15 wp per kill.
In a PC thats 15 wp inel for near every kill in your squad.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.27 18:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:You have for slots:
Use them
2 scans, needle, rep, get good intel, pick up frineds, rep for WP.
Gal logi only gets bad WP if you use 4 scans and hopw for 15 wp per kill.
In a PC thats 15 wp inel for near every kill in your squad.
once again it seems people fail to read threads before they comment
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Bradric Banewolf
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 18:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
The idiot you guys are running with that's running 4 scanners is gimping your team smh?!
Why would you run no other equipment? The fact that you think true logis do is comical lol! That's like a Cal logi running nothing but ammo smh?!
The point is the WP gain for the gal logi is low in comparison to other logis. In order: Min, Amarr, cal, gal
No surprise hear since it's pretty much in that order with everything in this game?! With exception of a few things, the min and amarr races have crazy advantages.
That's not to say that the other races don't have advantages, but you don't see players running much Gallente anything, except the scout. It's commonly know that gal heavy is a loss to all but the loyalist that run them.
The caldari weapons are more interesting than the Cal suit's, particularly the bp and ARR.
The amarr has the best heavy, best assault bonus, logi with a sidearm, Amarr scout, devastating weapons, etc.
The min..... oh for Christ sake, do I really have to type it all out?
While I'm looking forward to the hotfix, and all the changes it will bring, I fear we're still in for a long road of imbalance overall.
Alot of players confuse balance with advantage and bonus. Having an advantage in damp doesn't make the gal scout invincible, just invisible. However, to be invisible is useless if you're paper thin?! The same can be said for the min scouts speed and quickness. The min assault comes to mind as being completely imbalanced against everything else on the field.
What the OP is asking for is WP gains to pay for it's highly requested skills. The same consideration should be there for tankers and pilots of dropships. Everyone wants to ask for these roles on the battlefield, but doesn't want to see them make isk doing it. The selfishness of the min logi in the forums is disrespectful.
"Anybody order chaos?"
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 18:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
Bradric Banewolf wrote:The idiot you guys are running with that's running 4 scanners is gimping your team smh?!
Why would you run no other equipment? The fact that you think true logis do is comical lol! That's like a Cal logi running nothing but ammo smh?!
The point is the WP gain for the gal logi is low in comparison to other logis. In order: Min, Amarr, cal, gal
No surprise hear since it's pretty much in that order with everything in this game?! With exception of a few things, the min and amarr races have crazy advantages.
That's not to say that the other races don't have advantages, but you don't see players running much Gallente anything, except the scout. It's commonly know that gal heavy is a loss to all but the loyalist that run them.
The caldari weapons are more interesting than the Cal suit's, particularly the bp and ARR.
The amarr has the best heavy, best assault bonus, logi with a sidearm, Amarr scout, devastating weapons, etc.
The min..... oh for Christ sake, do I really have to type it all out?
While I'm looking forward to the hotfix, and all the changes it will bring, I fear we're still in for a long road of imbalance overall.
Alot of players confuse balance with advantage and bonus. Having an advantage in damp doesn't make the gal scout invincible, just invisible. However, to be invisible is useless if you're paper thin?! The same can be said for the min scouts speed and quickness. The min assault comes to mind as being completely imbalanced against everything else on the field.
What the OP is asking for is WP gains to pay for it's highly requested skills. The same consideration should be there for tankers and pilots of dropships. Everyone wants to ask for these roles on the battlefield, but doesn't want to see them make isk doing it. The selfishness of the min logi in the forums is disrespectful.
omg somebody read the thread before they commented oh GLORY THE SYSTEM WORKS
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 18:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:You have for slots:
Use them
2 scans, needle, rep, get good intel, pick up frineds, rep for WP.
Gal logi only gets bad WP if you use 4 scans and hopw for 15 wp per kill.
In a PC thats 15 wp inel for near every kill in your squad. once again it seems people fail to read threads before they comment
Again people fail to comprehend answer that isn't "OMG you are so right"
Scans are massive power projection, and you can still equip viziam flux uplinks and rep tools on a gal logi.
So yes, scan first the direction of the heavy in front of you with 15 second scans and earn intel WP + gaurdian WP + triage WP.
It only underperforms if you dont rep or drop links and used all 4 slots for scans in a pub match.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 18:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:You have for slots:
Use them
2 scans, needle, rep, get good intel, pick up frineds, rep for WP.
Gal logi only gets bad WP if you use 4 scans and hopw for 15 wp per kill.
In a PC thats 15 wp inel for near every kill in your squad. once again it seems people fail to read threads before they comment Again people fail to comprehend answer that isn't "OMG you are so right" Scans are massive power projection, and you can still equip viziam flux uplinks and rep tools on a gal logi. So yes, scan first the direction of the heavy in front of you with 15 second scans and earn intel WP + gaurdian WP + triage WP. It only underperforms if you dont rep or drop links and used all 4 slots for scans in a pub match.
i am amazed that you dont understand the point im not gunna try and explain it to you sorry i have little patience especially when other mercs have already demonstrated that they understand the point of this post
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axis alpha
ScReWeD uP InC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 18:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Reign Omega wrote:Why? You can use all the same equipment.
Exactly.
How about you take off those three scanners and use some other equipment and stop that permascans
Hullaballo and howdy doo! Musty prawns, and Timbucktu.
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 18:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
axis alpha wrote:Reign Omega wrote:Why? You can use all the same equipment. Exactly. How about you take off those three scanners and use some other equipment and stop that permascans
lol i love how peoples hate of perma scans overrides logic and common sense
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shaman oga
Dead Man's Game
4
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Posted - 2015.09.27 18:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
+20 for squad
+10 for team
Regressed to blueberry level.
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 19:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:
i do not run gal logi enough
Well then, i am wasting my time with this post.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.09.27 19:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
I agree that GaLogis are undercompensated in WP for the important job they perform for their squad/team.
Also, solo players are not compensated at all for their efforts in providing intel for their team.
But......
The scan bonus on a Logi was always the odd man out in terms of the bonuses. It was wrong from day one and it's still wrong.
The other races get bonuses for triage, resupply & deployment - those are all important on the battlefield, true, but Information is paramount - to make access to information so incredibly asymmetric between the races is poor game design.
I'd rather see the GalLogi with a needle bonus to efficacy and range if Rattati & crew can manage it - if any race's Logi was meant to pick up clones under fire it's Gallente.
Imo shared scans are the single greatest unbalancing factor in this game and largely responsible for pub stomps. That doesn't mean that scans should go away, but if we want the game to be healthy then we need to think about this important and interesting aspect of gameplay a lot more than we have.
Edit: Also, if there were a candidate for a shared scan role, surely it would be on some kinda sidegrade of the Scout suit, no?
PSN: RationalSpark
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 19:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:
i do not run gal logi enough
Well then, i am wasting my time with this post.
omg isnt it amazing how something takin out of context can look just wrong lol
you were wasting your time from the get go because you are incapable of understanding the point
i have 10 proto suits is why in this thread i specifically ask for the opinions of people who are more specialized gallente enthusiasts
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Jakkal Shoobah
Eastern Star Recon Group
255
|
Posted - 2015.09.27 19:35:00 -
[29] - Quote
Gal logi was my third suit I unlocked about 8 months ago. The 15 points for a Intel kill provided by a squad member is horse ****. With the exceptions of resupplies because that would be farmed as ****, most logi equipment provides 25 points. When someone dies or gets shot you can get triage galore, revive galore, or spawn galore and rack up points relatively quickly.
The problem with the scanner wp is that it requires too specific a situation. Its the only equipment that actually requires a squad to make points. That doesn't mean you can't use it solo, but the only reward solo is Intel for you and your team.
Other equipment can make points solo or not. Not only do they provide a service to the team they also casually provide Wp to the solo logi. So why is the scanner gimped in the sense that it REQUIRES a squad to make points ? Don't give me none of that its op permascan ****. Any logi using an equipment that was designed for their race should be able to adequately service his allies while reaping the benefits of Wp themselves whether solo or not.
While slow to anger and occasionally indecisive, they are also capable of harnessing enormous resolve when truly tested.
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 19:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jakkal Shoobah wrote:Gal logi was my third suit I unlocked about 8 months ago. The 15 points for a Intel kill provided by a squad member is horse ****. With the exceptions of resupplies because that would be farmed as ****, most logi equipment provides 25 points. When someone dies or gets shot you can get triage galore, revive galore, or spawn galore and rack up points relatively quickly.
The problem with the scanner wp is that it requires too specific a situation. Its the only equipment that actually requires a squad to make points. That doesn't mean you can't use it solo, but the only reward solo is Intel for you and your team.
Other equipment can make points solo or not. Not only do they provide a service to the team they also casually provide Wp to the solo logi. So why is the scanner gimped in the sense that it REQUIRES a squad to make points ? Don't give me none of that its op permascan ****. Any logi using an equipment that was designed for their race should be able to adequately service his allies while reaping the benefits of Wp themselves whether solo or not.
i remember when i first got my gal logi ....same reaction when comparing to my min and amar logi
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saxonmish
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 19:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
Yea while on the topic...
Why are they acually in the game, its a freekin first person shooter, scanners provide wall hacks for a 200m radius
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 19:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
saxonmish wrote:Yea while on the topic...
Why are they acually in the game, its a freekin first person shooter, scanners provide wall hacks for a 200m radius
tehe well why the kitten is aa in dust cough ccp hit detection fix
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Jakkal Shoobah
Eastern Star Recon Group
255
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Posted - 2015.09.27 20:00:00 -
[33] - Quote
saxonmish wrote:Yea while on the topic...
Why are they acually in the game, its a freekin first person shooter, scanners provide wall hacks for a 200m radius
So lets remove all active wear from infantry and vehicles and makes passives the only thing. Create a new gallente equipment that follows their philosophy of saving lives by making encounters less dangerous that does not mimic any other existing equipment. Oh yeah lets just remove ewar.
While slow to anger and occasionally indecisive, they are also capable of harnessing enormous resolve when truly tested.
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 20:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jakkal Shoobah wrote:saxonmish wrote:Yea while on the topic...
Why are they acually in the game, its a freekin first person shooter, scanners provide wall hacks for a 200m radius So lets remove all active wear from infantry and vehicles and makes passives the only thing. Create a new gallente equipment that follows their philosophy of saving lives by making encounters less dangerous that does not mimic any other existing equipment. Oh yeah lets just remove ewar.
unfortunately sax dust is not a hardcore fps and probably wont ever see such hard core changes
personally i want aa removed and magical hip fire sights removed now back tot he topic of the gal logi being a crippled wp earner despite providing an essentially power to the team
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Jakkal Shoobah
Eastern Star Recon Group
255
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Posted - 2015.09.27 20:35:00 -
[35] - Quote
I can't think of a way to provide points to the gal logi for scans solo without making it Farmville.
While slow to anger and occasionally indecisive, they are also capable of harnessing enormous resolve when truly tested.
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 20:49:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jakkal Shoobah wrote:I can't think of a way to provide points to the gal logi for scans solo without making it Farmville.
mmm my point wasnt to make them viable solo there is no real way to do that without making them farmville
but to make them worth using ina squad so
scans limited to squad only and rewards to squad only but drastically increase wp reward
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Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
247
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Posted - 2015.09.27 22:21:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jakkal Shoobah wrote:I can't think of a way to provide points to the gal logi for scans solo without making it Farmville.
Like so:
+1 WP for each scanned redberry
+2 WP for Team Intel Kill Assist
+15 WP for Squad Intel Kill Assist
*Note that "Team" and "Squad" Intel Kill Assist bonuses do not stack.
Even if you scan down the entire enemy team, you only get 16 WPs. If you did it 100 times (how did you manage that?!) then that does become 1600 WPs, yes.
Most likely? You scan, and pick up 5-8 players. Say 2-3 of them get killed. Rolling solo (or if squadmates don't pick up the kills), then that nets you, at most, 14 WPs. Even if we change it to, say, +2 WP/scanned enemy, and +5 WPs/Team Intel, then that's 31 WPs max.
Get a Team Spawn? +25. A few resupplies? +10 to +30 or more. Pick somebody up? +60. Triage and maybe get a Guardian? Watch the +25s roll in with a +35 in for giggles.
Suppress the enemy with a MD while your team moves in and you're busy scanning/resupplying/reinforcing with links? Have a few +25 Kill Assist and maybe even a +50 Kill or two.
Having Squad Intel being more valuable than Team Intel is possibly not so good. However, I think that there's not really any way to promote squad cohesion as "teamwork" when the main issue the playerbase as a whole seems to face is a lack of team cohesion.
This is, incidentally, why I think support actions and objective actions should be rewards better than plain "kills", as such actions are more relevant to victory in 75% of existing game modes in the most commonly played form of DUST, that being pubs.
Buff Logis | Nerf Scouts
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Bradric Banewolf
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.28 00:19:00 -
[38] - Quote
Min logi is the most used logi in the game lol! Why am I not surprises lmao!
Rarely see amarr logis and cal logies, and the gal is a PC logi primarily.
"Anybody order chaos?"
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.28 00:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
WPs should reflect your contribution to your team. Scans clearly provide more benefit than the paltry wp rewards suggest. So yes I agree.
To be honest I think you could simply get wps for all teamwide intel kill assists, rather than just for you squad like now. The scans help the whole team, it doesn't make sense to only get points from your squad getting kills. |
Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
247
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 02:35:00 -
[40] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:WPs should reflect your contribution to your team. Scans clearly provide more benefit than the paltry wp rewards suggest. So yes I agree.
To be honest I think you could simply get wps for all teamwide intel kill assists, rather than just for you squad like now. The scans help the whole team, it doesn't make sense to only get points from your squad getting kills.
So what do you think of, say, this scoring mechanism:
-For each enemy scanned, the scanner-user receives +2 WPs
-For each scanned enemy that is killed by a teammate, the user receives +10 WPs
The slight nerf to intel kill assists is mostly because you get WPs just for scanning enemies; much like vehicle damage, there's value in simply knowing the current and future likely positions of an opponent; for example, if you're trying to avoid the enemy to ninjahack an objective.
Moreover, as the mechanic is expanded to the entire team, it's more likely that you'll be getting that intel kill assist than currently, wherein it's limited to squadmates.
Even at 66% for a kill assist, combined with the "Enemy Scanned" bonus of +2 WPs, and opening it up to apply teamwide, it should be a reasonably lucrative piece of equipment.
Not quite as WP-rich as, say, high-end Rep Tools or Links... but those offer a much higher potential WP gain anyways.
Buff Logis | Nerf Scouts
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
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Posted - 2015.09.28 03:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
Agreed on all points.
Intel Assist WP needs to come up.
Permascan needs to come down. |
xavier zor
1.U.P
2
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Posted - 2015.09.28 03:35:00 -
[42] - Quote
I have no respect for scanners
sLaYeR
I'm a knifing pussy ^-^/
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Reign Omega
L0RDS 0F LEGI0N
1
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Posted - 2015.09.28 04:45:00 -
[43] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Agreed on all points.
Intel Assist WP needs to come up.
Permascan needs to come down.
Scan fidelity and time shouldnt overlap, only the best scanner for any situation should be given priority. Use a duvolle focused? That sets the time, fidelity and cooldown for all others equipped. Once you use one, they should all go on cooldown.
Also, as I have advocated forever, no shared team scans.
Hell naw...to the naw naw naw...hell to the naw.
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Bradric Banewolf
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.28 05:54:00 -
[44] - Quote
xavier zor wrote:I have no respect for scanners
No "slayer" does lol!
You know how bad people would be getting killed by guys like sax and others if their were no scans lmao! Oh the sheer magnitude of redline stomps would be worse than they currently are lol!
"Anybody order chaos?"
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Mister Goo
Random Gunz
203
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Posted - 2015.09.28 14:00:00 -
[45] - Quote
I run a Gal Logi only some times because I do much better with the Min logi. I can earn double to triple to points using my proto min vs using my proto Gal Logi. Although I do love the better armor reps 
Your absolutely right that the Gal logi is under rewarded for its specialization. Some people would have you believe that all a Gal Logi does is carry scanners and perma scan the board.
Every Gal Logi that I have run with usually has a fit with 2 scanners a needle, Drop Links, Repair Tool or Hives depending what they need for that battle. You still have to provide support for your team in other ways if you want to win, and honestly perma scanning the map gives you no real reward for what service your providing.
A Gal logi needs to be better rewarded for what they provide yes. They need to be comparable to the other racial fits in WP earnings availability. How this happens is going to be a very hotly debated topic, and will probably be derailed may times because of Ewar arguments.
Closed Beta Vet
Minmatar Logistics I Repair, Revive, and Replenish. Leave the slaying for Assaults and Heavies.
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Mobius Wyvern
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
6
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Posted - 2015.09.28 14:11:00 -
[46] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:this thread isnt about whether or not the suit combined with the double flux is op
this thread is about how little wps intel assists reward does anyone else feel like the gal logi dramatically unper forms in wp earning?
i feel like the suit just doesnt make enough wp to benefit
i think regardless of whether or not the gal logi is getting nerfed ccp should buff the rewards for scanning to bring the gal logis wp levels up to the other logis
my amar and min logi easy make double the wp my gal logi does
while scans may be greatly rewarding to the team they are not really rewarding for the logi carrying them..thats two equipment that are giving you crap for wp which also means that you make less isk at the end of the match.
are there any people whos only role is the gal logi? do you feel it under performs on the leader boards?
(romulus hex) suggested solution move scans back to squad only and buff wp rewards
I will admit that the only way it seems feasible to get WP via Intel Assists is by using my Dropship with a Complex Scanner. That allows me to designate and KEEP designated enough enemies that the Intel Assists come in a steady stream and I can make some good WP with them.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Mister Goo
Random Gunz
203
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Posted - 2015.09.28 14:13:00 -
[47] - Quote
Victor Moody Stahl wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:WPs should reflect your contribution to your team. Scans clearly provide more benefit than the paltry wp rewards suggest. So yes I agree.
To be honest I think you could simply get wps for all teamwide intel kill assists, rather than just for you squad like now. The scans help the whole team, it doesn't make sense to only get points from your squad getting kills. So what do you think of, say, this scoring mechanism: -For each enemy scanned, the scanner-user receives +2 WPs -For each scanned enemy that is killed by a teammate, the user receives +10 WPs The slight nerf to intel kill assists is mostly because you get WPs just for scanning enemies; much like vehicle damage, there's value in simply knowing the current and future likely positions of an opponent; for example, if you're trying to avoid the enemy to ninjahack an objective. Moreover, as the mechanic is expanded to the entire team, it's more likely that you'll be getting that intel kill assist than currently, wherein it's limited to squadmates. Even at 66% for a kill assist, combined with the "Enemy Scanned" bonus of +2 WPs, and opening it up to apply teamwide, it should be a reasonably lucrative piece of equipment. Not quite as WP-rich as, say, high-end Rep Tools or Links... but those offer a much higher potential WP gain anyways.
I agree with the team wide scans still. Do scans need looked at yes, not the topic of this thread.
Maybe give a increasing bonus based on the individuals scanned based on the db rating.
1 point down to 30 db
2 points down to 20 db
3 points below 20 db
Again the op debate is not necessary for this thread.
Closed Beta Vet
Minmatar Logistics I Repair, Revive, and Replenish. Leave the slaying for Assaults and Heavies.
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Alcina Nektaria
KILL-EM-QUICK
Rise Of Legion.
347
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Posted - 2015.09.28 14:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
If you are just stacking 4 scanners on any logi suit you aren't utilizing it properly.
I used to be a dedicated Gal Logi for two years until I skilled into other suits and my synopsis is this:
Gal Logi is superior on the field by far especially in terms of versatility. Yeah, sure Amarr gets a bonus to uplinks, Minmatard to repair. (Caldari doesn't even fall into this conversation because it takes a REALLY skilled person to be able to make that work) Now, Gal Logi you can do it all PLUS survive. So the survivability rate of Gal Logi means you have more of a chance to get more WP than a Min Logi. As far as Amarr logi's go, I have only ever seen people use them for uplink dropping otherwise a different conversation could be had. Regardless, in a Gal Logi (with minimal effort on my part) I can easily out do other logis WHEN I am solely dedicated to being a logi in that match.
I tried Min Logi eons ago and Gal Logi has always been better IMHO.
Some Min Logis can be great, sure. But I guess what it comes down to is the person in the suit making it work.
Check Us Out!
KEQ and ROFL. Diplomat.
D4GG3R is my mom.
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
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Posted - 2015.09.30 03:50:00 -
[49] - Quote
Alcina Nektaria wrote:If you are just stacking 4 scanners on any logi suit you aren't utilizing it properly.
I used to be a dedicated Gal Logi for two years until I skilled into other suits and my synopsis is this:
Gal Logi is superior on the field by far especially in terms of versatility. Yeah, sure Amarr gets a bonus to uplinks, Minmatard to repair. (Caldari doesn't even fall into this conversation because it takes a REALLY skilled person to be able to make that work) Now, Gal Logi you can do it all PLUS survive. So the survivability rate of Gal Logi means you have more of a chance to get more WP than a Min Logi. As far as Amarr logi's go, I have only ever seen people use them for uplink dropping otherwise a different conversation could be had. Regardless, in a Gal Logi (with minimal effort on my part) I can easily out do other logis WHEN I am solely dedicated to being a logi in that match.
I tried Min Logi eons ago and Gal Logi has always been better IMHO.
Some Min Logis can be great, sure. But I guess what it comes down to is the person in the suit making it work.
i am constantly amazed at how many people have read through this thread failed to grasp what i have been saying where so many others have succeeded and then gone on to say the exact same thing about 4 equipment palms face
dust 514 ruined console gaming for me
pc master race
PORT IT CCP
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 03:54:00 -
[50] - Quote
Victor Moody Stahl wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:WPs should reflect your contribution to your team. Scans clearly provide more benefit than the paltry wp rewards suggest. So yes I agree.
To be honest I think you could simply get wps for all teamwide intel kill assists, rather than just for you squad like now. The scans help the whole team, it doesn't make sense to only get points from your squad getting kills. So what do you think of, say, this scoring mechanism: -For each enemy scanned, the scanner-user receives +2 WPs -For each scanned enemy that is killed by a teammate, the user receives +10 WPs The slight nerf to intel kill assists is mostly because you get WPs just for scanning enemies; much like vehicle damage, there's value in simply knowing the current and future likely positions of an opponent; for example, if you're trying to avoid the enemy to ninjahack an objective. Moreover, as the mechanic is expanded to the entire team, it's more likely that you'll be getting that intel kill assist than currently, wherein it's limited to squadmates. Even at 66% for a kill assist, combined with the "Enemy Scanned" bonus of +2 WPs, and opening it up to apply teamwide, it should be a reasonably lucrative piece of equipment. Not quite as WP-rich as, say, high-end Rep Tools or Links... but those offer a much higher potential WP gain anyways.
i like this idea ....
so if you scan the whole team you get 32 wp + 10 for evey one of those people that are killed by your squad ...
everytime you scanned you would get roughly 32 wp if you scanned everybody which if you think about it equates to other gear wp rewards
dust 514 ruined console gaming for me
pc master race
PORT IT CCP
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Baal Omniscient
Qualified Scrub
2
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Posted - 2015.09.30 07:22:00 -
[51] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:Victor Moody Stahl wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:WPs should reflect your contribution to your team. Scans clearly provide more benefit than the paltry wp rewards suggest. So yes I agree.
To be honest I think you could simply get wps for all teamwide intel kill assists, rather than just for you squad like now. The scans help the whole team, it doesn't make sense to only get points from your squad getting kills. So what do you think of, say, this scoring mechanism: -For each enemy scanned, the scanner-user receives +2 WPs -For each scanned enemy that is killed by a teammate, the user receives +10 WPs The slight nerf to intel kill assists is mostly because you get WPs just for scanning enemies; much like vehicle damage, there's value in simply knowing the current and future likely positions of an opponent; for example, if you're trying to avoid the enemy to ninjahack an objective. Moreover, as the mechanic is expanded to the entire team, it's more likely that you'll be getting that intel kill assist than currently, wherein it's limited to squadmates. Even at 66% for a kill assist, combined with the "Enemy Scanned" bonus of +2 WPs, and opening it up to apply teamwide, it should be a reasonably lucrative piece of equipment. Not quite as WP-rich as, say, high-end Rep Tools or Links... but those offer a much higher potential WP gain anyways. i like this idea .... so if you scan the whole team you get 32 wp + 10 for evey one of those people that are killed by your squad ... everytime you scanned you would get roughly 32 wp if you scanned everybody which if you think about it equates to other gear wp rewards
If scanners got limited to 1 scanner equippable per suit, I'd have no issues with everything red you scan netting points - say 1 for equipment/turrets, 2-3 for players and 10 for kills. However permascans would have to be ended first, otherwise it just becomes a big WP farm. Which with permascans it already are, just for the rest of your team and not you.
Edited: Red.... I meant red....
Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
I GÖú Puppies
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
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Vesta Opalus
Rebels New Republic
The Ditanian Alliance
1
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Posted - 2015.09.30 07:44:00 -
[52] - Quote
I agree that scanning is WP deficient. Also ammo resupply hives should yield more WP and repair tools and uplinks should yield less. |
Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 08:43:00 -
[53] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:Victor Moody Stahl wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:WPs should reflect your contribution to your team. Scans clearly provide more benefit than the paltry wp rewards suggest. So yes I agree.
To be honest I think you could simply get wps for all teamwide intel kill assists, rather than just for you squad like now. The scans help the whole team, it doesn't make sense to only get points from your squad getting kills. So what do you think of, say, this scoring mechanism: -For each enemy scanned, the scanner-user receives +2 WPs -For each scanned enemy that is killed by a teammate, the user receives +10 WPs The slight nerf to intel kill assists is mostly because you get WPs just for scanning enemies; much like vehicle damage, there's value in simply knowing the current and future likely positions of an opponent; for example, if you're trying to avoid the enemy to ninjahack an objective. Moreover, as the mechanic is expanded to the entire team, it's more likely that you'll be getting that intel kill assist than currently, wherein it's limited to squadmates. Even at 66% for a kill assist, combined with the "Enemy Scanned" bonus of +2 WPs, and opening it up to apply teamwide, it should be a reasonably lucrative piece of equipment. Not quite as WP-rich as, say, high-end Rep Tools or Links... but those offer a much higher potential WP gain anyways. i like this idea .... so if you scan the whole team you get 32 wp + 10 for evey one of those people that are killed by your squad ... everytime you scanned you would get roughly 32 wp if you scanned everybody which if you think about it equates to other gear wp rewards If scanners got limited to 1 scanner equippable per suit, I'd have no issues with everything blue you scan netting points - say 1 for equipment/turrets, 2-3 for players and 10 for kills. However permascans would have to be ended first, otherwise it just becomes a big WP farm. Which with permascans it already are, just for the rest of your team and not you.
yet my amar logi can have six uplinks or so out all giving it 25 wp per spawn
those dumb blue dots that run 0 and 20....i love them they literally give me 500 wp just one moron repeatedly dying .....
dust 514 ruined console gaming for me
pc master race
PORT IT CCP
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Baal Omniscient
Qualified Scrub
2
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Posted - 2015.09.30 09:08:00 -
[54] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:Victor Moody Stahl wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:WPs should reflect your contribution to your team. Scans clearly provide more benefit than the paltry wp rewards suggest. So yes I agree.
To be honest I think you could simply get wps for all teamwide intel kill assists, rather than just for you squad like now. The scans help the whole team, it doesn't make sense to only get points from your squad getting kills. So what do you think of, say, this scoring mechanism: -For each enemy scanned, the scanner-user receives +2 WPs -For each scanned enemy that is killed by a teammate, the user receives +10 WPs The slight nerf to intel kill assists is mostly because you get WPs just for scanning enemies; much like vehicle damage, there's value in simply knowing the current and future likely positions of an opponent; for example, if you're trying to avoid the enemy to ninjahack an objective. Moreover, as the mechanic is expanded to the entire team, it's more likely that you'll be getting that intel kill assist than currently, wherein it's limited to squadmates. Even at 66% for a kill assist, combined with the "Enemy Scanned" bonus of +2 WPs, and opening it up to apply teamwide, it should be a reasonably lucrative piece of equipment. Not quite as WP-rich as, say, high-end Rep Tools or Links... but those offer a much higher potential WP gain anyways. i like this idea .... so if you scan the whole team you get 32 wp + 10 for evey one of those people that are killed by your squad ... everytime you scanned you would get roughly 32 wp if you scanned everybody which if you think about it equates to other gear wp rewards If scanners got limited to 1 scanner equippable per suit, I'd have no issues with everything blue you scan netting points - say 1 for equipment/turrets, 2-3 for players and 10 for kills. However permascans would have to be ended first, otherwise it just becomes a big WP farm. Which with permascans it already are, just for the rest of your team and not you. yet my amar logi can have six uplinks or so out all giving it 25 wp per spawn those dumb blue dots that run 0 and 20....i love them they literally give me 500 wp just one moron repeatedly dying .....
This is true, however those 6 uplinks on their own are not pinpointing every enemy for you and your allies to shoot at, nor are they giving you data on which direction the enemy is facing so your team knows what angle to attack them from. Those uplinks also aren't wall hacking buildings, walls and hills so you know what's coming from the other side, nor are they spotting enemy equipment so you know where the enemy is spawning from or where enemy RE's are lying in wait to blast you and your squad to radioactive wisps of smoke and glitter bits.
The other equipment have high WP payout for an important, team supporting role. Scanners gain reduced WP for an arguably broken, strategic team wide advantage that can very easily sway the flow of an entire battle with a single sweep of a scanner.
As it is, I think it's good that scanners only get reduced WP's, otherwise it would just be that much more abused in pubs. Once their viability as an item that can easily sway the tide of entire battles for the whole team is changed, then I think it'll be time to talk WP increases.
Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
I GÖú Puppies
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.30 09:17:00 -
[55] - Quote
Victor Moody Stahl wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:WPs should reflect your contribution to your team. Scans clearly provide more benefit than the paltry wp rewards suggest. So yes I agree.
To be honest I think you could simply get wps for all teamwide intel kill assists, rather than just for you squad like now. The scans help the whole team, it doesn't make sense to only get points from your squad getting kills. So what do you think of, say, this scoring mechanism: -For each enemy scanned, the scanner-user receives +2 WPs -For each scanned enemy that is killed by a teammate, the user receives +10 WPs The slight nerf to intel kill assists is mostly because you get WPs just for scanning enemies; much like vehicle damage, there's value in simply knowing the current and future likely positions of an opponent; for example, if you're trying to avoid the enemy to ninjahack an objective. Moreover, as the mechanic is expanded to the entire team, it's more likely that you'll be getting that intel kill assist than currently, wherein it's limited to squadmates. Even at 66% for a kill assist, combined with the "Enemy Scanned" bonus of +2 WPs, and opening it up to apply teamwide, it should be a reasonably lucrative piece of equipment. Not quite as WP-rich as, say, high-end Rep Tools or Links... but those offer a much higher potential WP gain anyways. It's a nice idea. However the good thing about the assist wps is that it make it more likely the scan helped your team, rather than just farming.
Yes it's very useful to know where the enemy is, and doesn't have to result in them getting killed, but the current system is more rewarding of teamwork.
Rep tools giving too many warpoints is a separate issue. Scanning doesn't need to be quite as high, though definitely more than they get now.
Scanners being a bit OP is another separate issue. I wonder if making them a bit easier to counter with dampeners would be a good idea. People can't whine about it if there is a clear counter with appropriate sacrifice. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS
1
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Posted - 2015.09.30 09:22:00 -
[56] - Quote
Change the gallente decibel bonus to only the core focused active scanner.
This would give people a chance to damp under Flux active Scanners
Youtube: Dust 514 - You should Have Worn Proto
One V One Emperor
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Leovarian L Lavitz
TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS
1
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Posted - 2015.09.30 09:28:00 -
[57] - Quote
Or give us an active damper, it would use the active scanner model , and cloak time mechanics.
The active dampener, when active, halves the operating suits profile.
Youtube: Dust 514 - You should Have Worn Proto
One V One Emperor
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ID G4f
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
45
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Posted - 2015.09.30 10:43:00 -
[58] - Quote
Cloaks add 10% damp
85mil sp and counting
ID's Escrow - trade safe
Bernie sanders for president! Finally a president of the people
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Baal Omniscient
Qualified Scrub
2
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Posted - 2015.09.30 10:45:00 -
[59] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Or give us an active damper, it would use the active scanner model , and cloak time mechanics.
The active dampener, when active, halves the operating suits profile.
A. That only really helps scouts whereas the scanners are a problem for the entire other team, not just the scouts.
B. Isn't that pretty much what the cloak already is plus an almost-invisibility shroud? I was pretty certain the cloak gave you active dampening, was that taken away while I was taking a break from Dust?
Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
I GÖú Puppies
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ID G4f
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
45
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Posted - 2015.09.30 10:55:00 -
[60] - Quote
first off, scanning in pc (16man squad) can make top of leaderboard in a pc if the fighting is city Focused. You cannot fix wp without fixing permascans, or it'll get worse. I believe the wp nerf is to discurage there use until fixed. But it is very unfair to gals. My idea to fix it all the way around is lower all deployable equipment to 27db, so 200m scans do not make other equipment negligible except on gal logi. Limit to 1 per suit, then open up sp gains to whole team. I don't think sp for just scanning with no kills involved is a good idea, it would be like kill assists when the person lives. Too abusable. Same with seperate team & squad wp as i can see a stacking glitch already. But allow current wp to be gained by any team member would be plenty if you couldn't stack um. We don't let scouts stack cloaks, just saying...
85mil sp and counting
ID's Escrow - trade safe
Bernie sanders for president! Finally a president of the people
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.30 11:03:00 -
[61] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Change the gallente decibel bonus to only the core focused active scanner.
This would give people a chance to damp under Flux active Scanners
Or change the precision bonus to something else (like cooldown) and just buff the precision of the focussed scanner.
Then reduce the focussed scanner range to 40m to stop it being used as a replacement to the others for scanning everyone.
Now you have long range fast cycling scanners for general recon, which can be dampened below, and short range highly precise scanners for defending against scouts.
You could even introduce basic and advanced focussed scanners for lower sp / isk scout defence. The range nerf would hopefully stop them being overpowered. |
Sleepy Shadow
Qualified Scrub
400
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 11:23:00 -
[62] - Quote
Minmitar or Amarr donGÇÖt get any more WPs from their equipment than a Gallente logi when using the same equipment. If you drop links you get the same 25WP as the Amar or if you plug your rep tool to the hindquarters of the nearest fatty, you get the same amount of WPs as a Minmitar would. Amarr and Minmitar have bonuses that benefit the team only; Gallente and Caldari have bonuses that benefit both the team and themselves. I find the WP gains to be balanced in that regard. Consider it a bonus that you can actually enjoy the bonus.
So I donGÇÖt find that Gallente logi underperforms in any shape or form. Your reward for using the racial equipment is different from the other logis but no less valuable. And you always have exactly the same WP gain potential as the other logis. Unless youGÇÖre carrying 4 scanners; in that case youGÇÖre gaining exactly the right amount of WPs.
"I have never gotten a kill assist by fluxing a wall" - Baal Omniscient
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Doombabies Bulletsponge
Slutty Girls Inc.
1
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Posted - 2015.09.30 12:04:00 -
[63] - Quote
Every logi can get points for team work. Min can get rep from anyone. An Am, anyone can use their links. What about a Cal? Are their needles just useful to their squad? No body used a blue berries hive?
Throw us a bone, will yah? Maybe a +5 or something |
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