Tebu Gan writes many words.

Wasting your time is also a valid strategy.

True, but not an effective one

This doesn't sound like a very engaging end-game experience to me.

I remember being excited when reading about PC 2.0 early on. I believed it was going to be different this time. I believed that the new model would make room for participation by smaller, historically non-PC corps. I believed that it would be their job to keep end-game play interesting and PC 2.0 moving and lean. I believed that they'd be encouraged to participate and rewarded for participation, as a model which encourages and rewards participation simply makes the most sense.

I wonder, what happened?

Loser gets no ISK.

Loser gets Winner "losses" in ISK, distributed equally



That's how it should be and is as far as I know.

A non-district holding Corp should make money off using a CP attack, using only militia BPO's if they manage to inflict some losses.

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Suggestion: Implement Raids.

* 8v8 Acq or Dom
* 15,000 CP
* Winner takes loser's losses; loser takes winner's losses
* Wire each district with a "raid window" set to correspond with daily attack timer
* Raids can be executed within the 1st 5 minutes of window (attack timer = 23:00; raid window = 23:00-23:35)
* If executed, Raid begins 20 minutes following execution (10 minute muster + 10 minute warbarge)
* On execution, Raiders and Defenders receive corp-wide notification from NPC. For example:
- "[Insert Corp Name] warbarges inbound! ETA 23:55. Defend: System X - Planet Y - District Z.
- "Warbarges outbound for [Insert Corp Name], ETA 23:55. Target: System X - Planet Y - District Z.

* On Raider Victory, % of District clone reserves are "stolen"; Isk proceeds redistributed by CP contribution
* On Raider Loss, Raider Corp cannot raid districts belonging to victorious Defender corp for 48 hours

We shall see. Players may use this corp in any number of ways. I have only shaped the system, but I do not direct the choices people make in the sandbox.

Yees, I was hoping something like this ... not only a 24 / 48 hours atack.. :/

what's the point of PC anyway other than to wave your **** around.

Plus I'm sure almost everyone in PC now relentlessly spams officer's equipment, much like a pub match!!!

Honestly there is no point..it is a waste of isk and you lose more than you gain if you use proto...I thought PC was where the proto was used but you got top players using apex suits Now

An hours notice with a set raid window timer (that occurs BEFORE the attack timer). That way you can bleed some clones up to the actual attack, and give the enemy a bit more notice to plan a little.

.
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OH had a PC battle (might have well been a no show) against a full 16 that literally grouped up in MLT gear thinking they were going to capitalize on this terrible "feature". 15 wasted minutes later, we come out victorious with a whooping 2 clones lost!

Doing some quick calculations here.

300k/16, the enemy team came out with around 18K a piece. With our numerous kills, we managed to net 18k for our side a piece off BPO and MLT gear. And I'm not sure but the guy who lost 2 clones on our side may have been running a bpo, further dropping their payout to 1k per player.

I find it quite pathetic how losing is encouraged with the intent of "Making Isk". Thanks for the crap shows Rattati!


In anycase Jakek, it should be quite interesting for you. One, running all bpo and MLT, you will likely get redlined from the start. That or the only point you will hold is your home point. When the enemy team realizes you are running cheap gear and not trying to win, they will switch and do the same. At least some will and the rest will hang back just in case someone does try to hack a point.

Look, even if you manage to kill 25 clones at 150k a pop, it will still only net you a payout with a full 16 of 187k. And that's assuming they run full proto the whole match, of which they likely won't.

Sure I find this idea of "bleeding their wallets" neat, but it's just not practical. You simply won't make money in PC unless you own a district. You aren't going to bleed anything unless you risk something yourself. I've had payouts upwards to 2mil where both sides were putting up a good fight.

Then we have these fights where people try to make money off of this mechanic that end up being a bigger waste of time for BOTH sides. I'm telling you right now, don't bother, but you will soon find out. Better off trying this on some noob corp in PC, NF will be wise to this tactic.

And for flux sake, can you people quit trying to lose and actually give us a good fight, or just a fight period. Want to make isk, go play FW or Pubs like the rest of us and USE that isk to put up a fight in PC. So sick of PC anymore. Let's just go waste our time against someone that won't even put in half an effort.

I'd say you are underestimating people's will to win and kill. Also, people tend to hate dying so that's why many tend to upgrade suits.

Furthermore, according to my experience in playing in a stupidly OP team, the most expensive matches for that kind of team is the ones where stompers are redlining the opposition.
Thirst for kills is so strong that stompers take stupid risks like getting redline turreted, tanksniped, sniped and most of all dying to redline timer.

complete opposite of every other mechanic in Dust, is it really a surprise? The squads of people that are good in PC scare off entire teams in pubs. People say, well it's a pub I'm not losing ISK. This mindset has fostered a playerbase almost totally void of any trace of a competitive nature.

Assume District X and Y have attack timers set at 23:00. If a Raider Corp knows that your A-Team is scheduled to defend District X, they can raid District Y on short notice at potential advantage, as your defenses will be limited to your B-Team and/or your allies.

This adds value to espionage, introduces tactical/strategic elements, and (perhaps most importantly) gives the non-PC corp a chance at actually inflicting casualties on an established "L33T" corp.

An hours notice with a set raid window timer (that occurs BEFORE the attack timer). That way you can bleed some clones up to the actual attack, and give the enemy a bit more notice to plan a little.

---

Suggestion: Implement Raids.

* 8v8 Acq or Dom
* 15,000 CP
* Winner takes loser's losses; loser takes winner's losses
* Wire each district with a "raid window" set to correspond with daily attack timer
* Raids can be executed within the 1st 5 minutes of window (attack timer = 23:00; raid window = 23:00-23:35)
* If executed, Raid begins 20 minutes following execution (10 minute muster + 10 minute warbarge)
* On execution, Raiders and Defenders receive corp-wide notification from NPC. For example:
- "[Insert Corp Name] warbarges inbound! ETA 23:55. Defend: System X - Planet Y - District Z.
- "Warbarges outbound for [Insert Corp Name], ETA 23:55. Target: System X - Planet Y - District Z.

* On Raider Victory, % of District clone reserves are "stolen"; Isk proceeds redistributed by CP contribution
* On Raider Loss, Raider Corp cannot raid districts belonging to victorious Defender corp for 48 hours


Assume District X and Y have attack timers set at 23:00. If a Raider Corp knows that your A-Team is scheduled to defend District X, they can raid District Y on short notice at potential advantage, as your defenses will be limited to your B-Team and/or your allies.

This adds value to espionage, introduces tactical/strategic elements, and (perhaps most importantly) gives the non-PC corp a chance at actually inflicting casualties on an established "L33T" corp.

Sure, would make more sense though to put the raid timer before the main attack timer. This way a successful raid could pave the way for a flip. And I'm not sure if you could have a raid and attack on the same district at the same time. I assume raids would have to happen outside of the attack timer with the code.

You missed his point a little. If one district is being defended, then you raid a separate district which also could have a defense afterward. Then flipping the districts could be performed for either district. This increasing the number of attacks could spread out the ringers and solve that problem as well. The A team doesn't know which district to defend. The first or devote themselves entirely to the second, stop the raid and hold the defense.

Sure, would make more sense though to put the raid timer before the main attack timer. This way a successful raid could pave the way for a flip. And I'm not sure if you could have a raid and attack on the same district at the same time. I assume raids would have to happen outside of the attack timer with the code.

I like this whole idea except the reason for the 20 minute notice is because you want people to be a little surprised. I think 1 hour is too generous, but 20 minutes doesn't let you finish your current match sometimes. Lets go 30 minutes to get a nice even half hour notice.

Maybe a DK item would be to shutdown the raiding window so there is a little give and take there.

Yeap, 30min ... is a good time for a "raid battle" preparation, Domination could be the game mode...

Between the modes of Acq or Dom, I say we let the Devs pick the one which is least likely to lag.

That's a rather depressing narrative. I say we test it. Implement actual Raids and see just how clever, menacing and troublesome the "non-competitive" players can be. I don't believe that "non-competitive" players wish to be coddled; I believe it much more likely that they simply don't wish to waste time and effort.

Loser gets no ISK.

Loser gets Winner "losses" in ISK, distributed equally



That's how it should be and is as far as I know.

A non-district holding Corp should make money off using a CP attack, using only militia BPO's if they manage to inflict some losses.

I thought raids were supposed to be a thing. With the system you're describing, that's not possible.

Loser gets no ISK.

Loser gets Winner "losses" in ISK, distributed equally



That's how it should be and is as far as I know.

A non-district holding Corp should make money off using a CP attack, using only militia BPO's if they manage to inflict some losses.

I personally don't mind losing against NF. All I want to do is kill Kain ONCE and maybe Aeon or Anon if they're present.