DUST Search - The Cloak Field needs to be Tweaked to Matter

Krias Thracian wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Honestly, they really should just turn the Cloak Field into an Active Profile Dampener. Scouts are always complaining about how the Cloak Field is fundamentally useless because they can still easily be seen and an Active Profile Dampener just makes more sense when compared to the Active Scanner and might finally close down the endless debate over who should win in the Precision/Profile war.

If Scouts are able to get underneath Active Scanners' precision, Gal Logis feel gypped. If Gal Logis are able to always detect Scouts, the Scouts feel gypped. That cycle will never end unless there is another factor put into play that brings on a level of uncertainty and I think an Active Profile Dampener would be the way to do that. Limited reduction to profile to create opportunity rather than either side passively winning at all times.

I don't know; I like the cloak as it is, and I really do think it's the reticle turning red that is the major issue. If I come up from the side of someone where I would be in their field of vision but in the periphery, then they have never seen me, it seems to be almost entirely when I go right across the field of view, which would track with their reticle turning red and displaying target info.

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Asekpri Vorkna G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 8	Posted - 2015.07.04 05:23:00 - [1] - Quote Asekpri Vorkna has an extreme issue with the Cloak Field and is aware this is a topic that many have held many different opinions on. I love the element of surprise as do many people. It is wonderful to see something like this here as a fan of Metal Gear Solid and stealth. The issue is that the cloak has no real benefit on the same level as other equipment and for it to cost way more than anything else to use it should be better at what it is for than how it is today. Either keep the cloak exactly the way it is, but do not have the system alert the enemy that anything is being hacked if the hacker of that specific installation or objective is cloaked. That is the only type of benefit and somewhat "stealth" that Asekpri Vorkna could see filling in for the extreme lack of pure stealth the cloak has now. You can obviously see people when they are running which would make sense if you could not see them as they sit completely still, but even then you can see them. It feels good that sometimes it works and people don't notice, but you lack so much with a dropsuit and a cloak that the stealth makes up for what you can not put on the dropsuit. From the looks of several discussions on the Cloak Field, it has been changed several times. It is my wish it changes again. There are so many ways to make this work for everyone. Has anyone at CCP ever considered having the Cloak Field make people completely invisible for the first ten seconds and then dwindle by fifty percent afterwards? Something like that. It is getting tiring to feel like any other player on the battlefield, just one wearing something that makes me vapor out a bit. You can see Casper, but even he goes into full on ghost mode. Call it Casper Field because you can obviously see that thing. We need the thing from Hogwarts. Now, that is an invisibility cloak.
DJINN Jecture Templar of the Glowing Blade 415	Posted - 2015.07.05 06:41:00 - [2] - Quote Due to a discussion with a friend I did some messing around on Dust today. Based on my skills using stealth tech (damps and cloaking dev.) I ninjaed my way around the map relatively secure in my quite stealthy manner to the great benefit of the team. I was unseen until decloak and had no issues getting close to targets, unfortunately the benefit of getting close was completely undermined by the decloak->fire delay and caused me several suit losses. Perhaps we could get a skill called Cloaking Device Optimization which reduces the firing delay by a percentage per level (10% seems fair) with the requirement of cloaking lv 5 to use the skill. *-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!* *ß¦äß¦â-à*
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.05 08:24:00 - [3] - Quote no. The cloak stays as it is cause i dont want "surprise decloaks" from shotgun scouts infront of my nose. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Starlight Burner Arrary of Clusters 329	Posted - 2015.07.05 08:35:00 - [4] - Quote Too lazy to look the quote up but remember it saying, "They're not combat cloaks" Remember it. CEO of Arrary of Clusters, a close relations corporation Caldari Factional Warfare, enlist today! Thank you for DUST
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 729	Posted - 2015.07.05 09:02:00 - [5] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: no. The cloak stays as it is cause i dont want "surprise decloaks" from shotgun scouts infront of my nose. Things are not as they were, now we have the concentric circles scan radius and the amount of times I've avoided being knifed because of it is rather high ADS Ramming Revenge! Plasma Cannon Rampage
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.07.05 12:53:00 - [6] - Quote The biggest problem is that sprinting cancels the weapon change from cloak. The second problem is that, in the cloak's current state, it could do with being a bit harder to see when moving. The third problem is the decloak delay time. Whilst I agree with a delay, it could do with being a bit quicker, just go make it feel a bit better, without allowing insta-decloak ganking.
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 48	Posted - 2015.07.05 13:42:00 - [7] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: no. The cloak stays as it is cause i dont want "surprise decloaks" from shotgun scouts infront of my nose. That's a terrible reason. I don't want snipers to be able to shoot me across the map, so should we change those because I don't like it? Give a reasoned argument. Personally I don't see a big problem with the delay, I DO see a problem with the cloak as it currently is. I was over a hundred yards away from a sentinel and running further while cloaked. He was able to follow me perfectly while I was cloaked and kill me without effort. This isn't good. At over 100 yards if I'm not effectively invisible then something is badly wrong. I also passed several direct LOS blocking things on the way and he/she was able to effortlessly reacquire. This is not the first time I've had this happen and it won't be the last, and I have created a post to this effect in the past. If it's not a combat cloak then what exactly is it for in a game that is entirely dependent on combat as it currently doesn't hide you massively well. I'm better off relying on standard distraction techniques than the cloak in many situations.
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 48	Posted - 2015.07.05 13:48:00 - [8] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: The biggest problem is that sprinting cancels the weapon change from cloak. The second problem is that, in the cloak's current state, it could do with being a bit harder to see when moving. The third problem is the decloak delay time. Whilst I agree with a delay, it could do with being a bit quicker, just go make it feel a bit better, without allowing insta-decloak ganking. Problem one is a massive pain in the neck and has happened so many times to me where I've changed weapon then sprinted and it's ignored the change weapon and I've gone round the corner with no weapon and not cloaked..... /sigh The second is definitely a problem, though I'd actually rank it as the biggest problem. If it's a cloak that can be seen then it's not a cloak. The delay is fine as is assuming the cloak is better. I'm not suggesting it be inviolable. At sub 30 metres if I'm running right in front of you, you should see me, but at greater than 40-50 metres unaided, you shouldn't be picking me off effortlessly. Part of the problem as I discovered in my last post is that even if you're cloaked, an enemy reticle will still go red when it hovers over you. This is a dead giveaway and probably the biggest problem. They haven't seen you, they've swept the area and saw their reticle go red. Just removing this would probably resolve the issue. I really like the idea of stealth hacking while cloaked, I think that has some merit to it.
Asekpri Vorkna G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 9	Posted - 2015.07.05 15:44:00 - [9] - Quote So many people here have gotten it right. Thanks for bringing up the red icon overhead when cloaked as that is frustrating and it was something left out of the original post. The cloaked shotgunners are already utilizing that effectively anyway to the person who wants to avoid that. And lastly, the story told about being seen despite cloaked from far distances. This is exactly the entire point of being cloaked in the first place to those who disagree. Snipers can snipe and sometimes can go long periods of time without being seen if no one scans. As you look for them you could get shot several times if you do not know where to look. Cloaks aren't as stealthy as they should be. It should be easier to spot a sniper than a cloaked soldier, not the other way around. Again, as so many have stated, it's as if the cloak doesn't matter because it isn't cloaking anything and yet it's got the highest cost of anything else you can fit to your dropsuit as far as the CPU is concerned. This is a screwjob. The element of surprise is needed on the battlefield and completely fair. Look at how much a vehicle can do in this game as compared to others then consider the surprise elements of some sniping situations. Cloaks need to actually be useful. Sure some may be okay with how they are now, but they really are bad as far as doing anything. You can be seen sitting still or moving, albeit to different degrees of transparency, but it's blatant as hell. This is increased depending on the type of television you have. As someone who plays between several different types of televisions this is a problem.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.05 16:04:00 - [10] - Quote Honestly, they really should just turn the Cloak Field into an Active Profile Dampener. Scouts are always complaining about how the Cloak Field is fundamentally useless because they can still easily be seen and an Active Profile Dampener just makes more sense when compared to the Active Scanner and might finally close down the endless debate over who should win in the Precision/Profile war. If Scouts are able to get underneath Active Scanners' precision, Gal Logis feel gypped. If Gal Logis are able to always detect Scouts, the Scouts feel gypped. That cycle will never end unless there is another factor put into play that brings on a level of uncertainty and I think an Active Profile Dampener would be the way to do that. Limited reduction to profile to create opportunity rather than either side passively winning at all times. 10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.

Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 48	Posted - 2015.07.05 16:09:00 - [11] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Honestly, they really should just turn the Cloak Field into an Active Profile Dampener. Scouts are always complaining about how the Cloak Field is fundamentally useless because they can still easily be seen and an Active Profile Dampener just makes more sense when compared to the Active Scanner and might finally close down the endless debate over who should win in the Precision/Profile war. If Scouts are able to get underneath Active Scanners' precision, Gal Logis feel gypped. If Gal Logis are able to always detect Scouts, the Scouts feel gypped. That cycle will never end unless there is another factor put into play that brings on a level of uncertainty and I think an Active Profile Dampener would be the way to do that. Limited reduction to profile to create opportunity rather than either side passively winning at all times. I don't know; I like the cloak as it is, and I really do think it's the reticle turning red that is the major issue. If I come up from the side of someone where I would be in their field of vision but in the periphery, then they have never seen me, it seems to be almost entirely when I go right across the field of view, which would track with their reticle turning red and displaying target info.
Asekpri Vorkna G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 9	Posted - 2015.07.05 16:23:00 - [12] - Quote Krias Thracian wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Honestly, they really should just turn the Cloak Field into an Active Profile Dampener. Scouts are always complaining about how the Cloak Field is fundamentally useless because they can still easily be seen and an Active Profile Dampener just makes more sense when compared to the Active Scanner and might finally close down the endless debate over who should win in the Precision/Profile war. If Scouts are able to get underneath Active Scanners' precision, Gal Logis feel gypped. If Gal Logis are able to always detect Scouts, the Scouts feel gypped. That cycle will never end unless there is another factor put into play that brings on a level of uncertainty and I think an Active Profile Dampener would be the way to do that. Limited reduction to profile to create opportunity rather than either side passively winning at all times. I don't know; I like the cloak as it is, and I really do think it's the reticle turning red that is the major issue. If I come up from the side of someone where I would be in their field of vision but in the periphery, then they have never seen me, it seems to be almost entirely when I go right across the field of view, which would track with their reticle turning red and displaying target info. If you are standing still it shouldn't turn red. There has to be a compromise and that cloak is not just for hacking it is for stealth, which is going undetected. Not semi-undetected. For the way gameplay is on the battlefield they could adjust the cloak to be more useful. If this were Call of Duty online as that is, it would be one thing, but with the way DUST 514 is it is definite needed upgrade of actual stealth, not bootleg stealth.
Alaika Arbosa Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2015.07.05 16:25:00 - [13] - Quote Make the Dust Cloak the same as the Eve Cloak. No timer, no shimmer and an "Oh **** I am dead" delay for the decloak No combat cloak, no surprise decloak, it then becomes a device for facilitating movement and positioning. What is that you say? What about Covert Ops Cloaks? You're too small for one of those, the spaceships that can fit those have 99% of their onboard systems devoted to making them Covert Ops Cloak capable. I won't dodge another silver bullet Just to save a little face
Asekpri Vorkna G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 9	Posted - 2015.07.05 16:29:00 - [14] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Make the Dust Cloak the same as the Eve Cloak. No timer, no shimmer and an "Oh **** I am dead" delay for the decloak No combat cloak, no surprise decloak, it then becomes a device for facilitating movement and positioning. What is that you say? What about Covert Ops Cloaks? You're too small for one of those, the spaceships that can fit those have 99% of their onboard systems devoted to making them Covert Ops Cloak capable. Actually, Asekpri Vorkna would not be against having different types of cloaks for different usages. That would be pretty cool in my book.
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 49	Posted - 2015.07.05 16:36:00 - [15] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Make the Dust Cloak the same as the Eve Cloak. No timer, no shimmer and an "Oh **** I am dead" delay for the decloak No combat cloak, no surprise decloak, it then becomes a device for facilitating movement and positioning. What is that you say? What about Covert Ops Cloaks? You're too small for one of those, the spaceships that can fit those have 99% of their onboard systems devoted to making them Covert Ops Cloak capable. So your proposal is that we can cloak, but movement is dropped by 90% with a targeting delay on decloak of anything up to 10 seconds? Explain how that would work exactly in this game? You do realise they are two different games right? There are some similarities in structure and UI, but you cannot apply everything in one to the other. Removing the timer and the shimmer would make them massively good, increasing the delay on firing would render them utterly pointless in all circumstances. I'm not looking to go to warp with my dropsuit, so a covert ops cloak from eve would have no use to me. I just want to be able to move about the battlefield while cloaked and feel like the cloak is doing something for my scout suit.
Alaika Arbosa Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2015.07.05 16:44:00 - [16] - Quote Krias Thracian wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Make the Dust Cloak the same as the Eve Cloak. No timer, no shimmer and an "Oh **** I am dead" delay for the decloak No combat cloak, no surprise decloak, it then becomes a device for facilitating movement and positioning. What is that you say? What about Covert Ops Cloaks? You're too small for one of those, the spaceships that can fit those have 99% of their onboard systems devoted to making them Covert Ops Cloak capable. So your proposal is that we can cloak, but movement is dropped by 90% with a targeting delay on decloak of anything up to 10 seconds? Explain how that would work exactly in this game? You do realise they are two different games right? There are some similarities in structure and UI, but you cannot apply everything in one to the other. Removing the timer and the shimmer would make them massively good, increasing the delay on firing would render them utterly pointless in all circumstances. I'm not looking to go to warp with my dropsuit, so a covert ops cloak from eve would have no use to me. I just want to be able to move about the battlefield while cloaked and feel like the cloak is doing something for my scout suit. lolno, it wouldn't make them utterly pointless, that is pure opinion. I could see Scouts being given the ability to move at full speed, though any other suit is a crawl. I still think that they should be further distanced from combat cloaks though. Yes, I do realize that they are two different games set in the same game setting universe, they share lore, they share tech, the difference is that one is set on planets and the other is set in the space above them. They should be designed purely for movement and positioning. Scout gets into position cloaked, drops an uplink, cloaks again, goes to supply depot, swaps to cloak/scanner and moves into position as forward surveillance. I won't dodge another silver bullet Just to save a little face


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