DUST Search - Shield repair tool?

el OPERATOR wrote:

se7ensaints wrote:

el OPERATOR wrote:

Echo 1991 wrote:

el OPERATOR wrote:

Shield repair tool as described already exists: Its called cover. Its everywhere, get in some.

You are just being a ****. Shields NEED a piece of equipment to support them.

The comment was ****-ish, sure, but as it is shields have 2 different modules for optimization (doing what the OP calls for in a seperate equipment) so really the only missing element is the discretion of the user ie. cover use and engagement selection.

The rest of this is replogis not understanding that repping is only a fraction of what you need to be doing in battle. Theres plenty of work to be done, get to it and quit crying for more WP hydrants. When that shield frame drops into armor you can leash and rep him.

shield at such an advantage why don't you give me a grenade type weapon which gets rid of all armour in 1 throw of any individual in a 5 metre radius. even then i don't think shield and armour will be on the same playing terms.
i don't care about war points neither i have no skills in logging not even 1 point in rep tool. i just see an area in the game which needs to be enriched and formulate an innovative proposition tor try and fill the gap.
if you cannot give creative and constructive criticism without labelling people who are forming together to create a better dust then i suggest you GTFO.

I've been in DUST running all branches of Logistics from all of the frames at proto for a very long time. Is there room to improve? Sure. Are there constantly poor ideas floated out that get support by the masses? Yes. Do I think a shield repper is one of them? Yes. Will I continue to populate any and every thread on these forums to say so as I see fit? Yes.

Those who'd like to see repping bonuses spread thoughout the Logistics Class I would refer to Cross Atus logistics proposal which spreads all the currently exclusive bonuses across the class to varying degrees so as to create the performance bonus access you're looking for.

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GRIMm grin Vengeance Unbound RUST415 2	Posted - 2015.06.28 14:35:00 - [31] - Quote Also the problem with just throwing down hives as a "siege tactic" 1 flux, what then? The hives are gone my shields are gone what armor do I have maybe a little over 300 depending on how it's fitted and that's almost instant death
el OPERATOR Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.30 16:41:00 - [32] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: High quantity ammo availability would be a part of siege warfare, one would think. Everyone can allready carry 6 nanohives. No need for cal. logis and their silly bonus. So what? They still can't deploy more than the max of them at any one time wheras the Cals when deployed have bigger bubbles and work proportionately faster so one hive seems like more. Multiple hives? HUGE impact. So many of you keep discrediting the bonus when is actuality it's a solid, good bonus when used instead of cried about. Open-Beta Vet. CAPCRO Nomad. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.30 16:44:00 - [33] - Quote GRIMm grin wrote: Also the problem with just throwing down hives as a "siege tactic" 1 flux, what then? The hives are gone my shields are gone what armor do I have maybe a little over 300 depending on how it's fitted and that's almost instant death Throw another one down or spread them out so one flux won't destroy (the bubbles at pro are bigger than a flux, protip) or move your ass to a better spot. Part of siege is you control the traffic flow so if you're being fluxed you're probably not actually sieging you're just parked. Open-Beta Vet. CAPCRO Nomad. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.30 17:31:00 - [34] - Quote se7ensaints wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Shield repair tool as described already exists: Its called cover. Its everywhere, get in some. You are just being a **. Shields NEED a piece of equipment to support them. The comment was *-ish, sure, but as it is shields have 2 different modules for optimization (doing what the OP calls for in a seperate equipment) so really the only missing element is the discretion of the user ie. cover use and engagement selection. The rest of this is replogis not understanding that repping is only a fraction of what you need to be doing in battle. Theres plenty of work to be done, get to it and quit crying for more WP hydrants. When that shield frame drops into armor you can leash and rep him. shield at such an advantage why don't you give me a grenade type weapon which gets rid of all armour in 1 throw of any individual in a 5 metre radius. even then i don't think shield and armour will be on the same playing terms. i don't care about war points neither i have no skills in logging not even 1 point in rep tool. i just see an area in the game which needs to be enriched and formulate an innovative proposition tor try and fill the gap. if you cannot give creative and constructive criticism without labelling people who are forming together to create a better dust then i suggest you GTFO. I've been in DUST running all branches of Logistics from all of the frames at proto for a very long time. Is there room to improve? Sure. Are there constantly poor ideas floated out that get support by the masses? Yes. Do I think a shield repper is one of them? Yes. Will I continue to populate any and every thread on these forums to say so as I see fit? Yes. Those who'd like to see repping bonuses spread thoughout the Logistics Class I would refer to Cross Atus logistics proposal which spreads all* the currently exclusive bonuses across the class to varying degrees so as to create the performance bonus access you're looking for. Open-Beta Vet. CAPCRO Nomad. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.30 17:33:00 - [35] - Quote Meanwhile, quit trying to gimp my logi please. Open-Beta Vet. CAPCRO Nomad. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Echo 1991 Dead Man's Game 882	Posted - 2015.06.30 17:38:00 - [36] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: se7ensaints wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Shield repair tool as described already exists: Its called cover. Its everywhere, get in some. You are just being a **. Shields NEED a piece of equipment to support them. The comment was *-ish, sure, but as it is shields have 2 different modules for optimization (doing what the OP calls for in a seperate equipment) so really the only missing element is the discretion of the user ie. cover use and engagement selection. The rest of this is replogis not understanding that repping is only a fraction of what you need to be doing in battle. Theres plenty of work to be done, get to it and quit crying for more WP hydrants. When that shield frame drops into armor you can leash and rep him. shield at such an advantage why don't you give me a grenade type weapon which gets rid of all armour in 1 throw of any individual in a 5 metre radius. even then i don't think shield and armour will be on the same playing terms. i don't care about war points neither i have no skills in logging not even 1 point in rep tool. i just see an area in the game which needs to be enriched and formulate an innovative proposition tor try and fill the gap. if you cannot give creative and constructive criticism without labelling people who are forming together to create a better dust then i suggest you GTFO. I've been in DUST running all branches of Logistics from all of the frames at proto for a very long time. Is there room to improve? Sure. Are there constantly poor ideas floated out that get support by the masses? Yes. Do I think a shield repper is one of them? Yes. Will I continue to populate any and every thread on these forums to say so as I see fit? Yes. Those who'd like to see repping bonuses spread thoughout the Logistics Class I would refer to Cross Atus logistics proposal which spreads all* the currently exclusive bonuses across the class to varying degrees so as to create the performance bonus access you're looking for. Regardless of whether or not you think it's a bad idea (which let's be real, it isn't) shields need a support equipment. Why should only armour suits get a huge benefit from 2 pieces of equipment and shields nothing? Explain that instead of saying its a bad idea. I would like all logis to get a bonus to all pieces of equipment however. It makes no sense to have a suit that is supposed to be the best with equipment only be good at using one piece. Wanna play eve?
el OPERATOR Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.30 17:42:00 - [37] - Quote Shields already benefit from having more beneficial modules, better regen times, and no movement penalties. Could the extenders use a buff? Yes, but thats a different thread. Open-Beta Vet. CAPCRO Nomad. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Echo 1991 Dead Man's Game 882	Posted - 2015.06.30 17:45:00 - [38] - Quote Armour can use armour reps to get armour repair. I don't have to do that though if I have a rep tool strapped to my back. So why can't shields get the same treatment? Let's make it clear though that the shield repper won't be as good as the armour one otherwise it wouldn't be balanced. Wanna play eve?
el OPERATOR Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.30 17:50:00 - [39] - Quote And lets be clear that I am less worried about the impact a shield repper existing will have and more worried about losing what is a good, productive bonus for my CalLogi in its current bonusing to hive use. Open-Beta Vet. CAPCRO Nomad. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.30 17:51:00 - [40] - Quote And pretty sure all shields have regen regardless of module, which is another benefit to shields- repper built in already always. Open-Beta Vet. CAPCRO Nomad. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR

CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.06.30 17:52:00 - [41] - Quote Seriously for the 1000th time and for the love of god.... Remote repairing shields would NOT be in ANY WAY OP. Why on earth is there this myth that remote repaired shield would somehow become invincibility mode or something. Scramblers will still shred your shields even WITH a remote shield transfer on you. No wonder this game has had so many 'bumps' in the road (as it were) we have had crazy DEVS that come out with stupid ideas before they decide to abandon ship.... and we have crazy players that spout rubbish all over the forums. No wonder.. "Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa
el OPERATOR Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.30 18:17:00 - [42] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Seriously for the 1000th time and for the love of god.... Remote repairing shields would NOT be in ANY WAY OP. Why on earth is there this myth that remote repaired shield would somehow become invincibility mode or something. Scramblers will still shred your shields even WITH a remote shield transfer on you. No wonder this game has had so many 'bumps' in the road (as it were) we have had crazy DEVS that come out with stupid ideas before they decide to abandon ship.... and we have crazy players that spout rubbish all over the forums. No wonder.. hm... such a short memory for things that were probably great ideas on paper but were OP as hell in practice. Open-Beta Vet. CAPCRO Nomad. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Echo 1991 Dead Man's Game 882	Posted - 2015.06.30 18:18:00 - [43] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Seriously for the 1000th time and for the love of god.... Remote repairing shields would NOT be in ANY WAY OP. Why on earth is there this myth that remote repaired shield would somehow become invincibility mode or something. Scramblers will still shred your shields even WITH a remote shield transfer on you. No wonder this game has had so many 'bumps' in the road (as it were) we have had crazy DEVS that come out with stupid ideas before they decide to abandon ship.... and we have crazy players that spout rubbish all over the forums. No wonder.. It wouldn't be OP. It would need to be lower than armour because of how fast shields can rep. One modules can get you over 40 HP/s. Wanna play eve?
el OPERATOR Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.30 18:24:00 - [44] - Quote Pretty sure consensus on the ScR btw is that its brokenly OP so the idea that we'll add elements that'll be balanced by virtue of broken elements is indeed forum rubbish. Open-Beta Vet. CAPCRO Nomad. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 839	Posted - 2015.06.30 18:57:00 - [45] - Quote se7ensaints wrote: when using the rep tool you clearly know you need to find a suit with armour because shield cannot be repped. i have a suggestion there could be a creation of a new rep tool or add multi functions to existing rep tools. PROPOSITION: rather than repping shield (which would possibly be OP) the repair tool would decrease shield recharge delay and shield depleted times significantly. for different tiers the reduction would be significantly greater. (basically its like a regulator) (theoretical) examples: basic: 40% reduction advanced: 60% reduction proto: 80% reduction (republic pro: 95% reduction) There is a big problem with rep tools that only reduce recharge delay: since shield suits generally have pretty low shield regen by default (usually 25-35 or so per second, vs. 75+ hp/s from a decent rep tool on armor) shield users would then have to choose between fitting to take advantage of the rep tool, or fitting to have good ehp. This isnt even possible for alot of suits (since shield regen modules are so absurdly expensive in CPU, only proto can really effectively fit to make this viable), and it does not match armor mechanics where you get a very high baseline rep from the repair tool that can be either enhanced by adding more rep, or adding more buffer in the form of armor plates. Not matching mechanics is fine and everything, but you will need to make it so the rep tool buffs base regen by 50-100% to make it worth using at all and make it not require the target of the repper fit in a specific way to make things viable. P.S. I dont really like % increases for the shield regen modules or for this repper, if I had my way they would be flat increases, which would make them more useful across the board except for suits with exceptional base shield regen like the cal scout.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 839	Posted - 2015.06.30 19:01:00 - [46] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Pretty sure consensus on the ScR btw is that its brokenly OP so the idea that we'll add elements that'll be balanced by virtue of broken elements is indeed forum rubbish. Its absurdly OP on amarr assault and just mildly OP on everyone else. Which means when they balance it the amarr assaults are going to be salty as ****, or the weapon will be useless on any other suit. Good times.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 839	Posted - 2015.06.30 19:05:00 - [47] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Shield repair tool as described already exists: Its called cover. Its everywhere, get in some. You are just being a **. Shields NEED a piece of equipment to support them. The comment was **-ish, sure, but as it is shields have 2 different modules for optimization (doing what the OP calls for in a seperate equipment) so really the only missing element is the discretion of the user ie. cover use and engagement selection. The rest of this is replogis not understanding that repping is only a fraction of what you need to be doing in battle. Theres plenty of work to be done, get to it and quit crying for more WP hydrants. When that shield frame drops into armor you can leash and rep him. Calling it "more WP hydrants" is kind of misleading, its not about getting more WP, you can already get absurd amount of WP with the armor repair tools. This is about balancing shield meta game against armor meta game. Logis wont be getting more points, since this is an alternative to an existing mechanic (the rep tool), not an additional mechanic that will be in effect at the same time. I dont think its too much to ask that people who want to run Caldari gear have an option like the rep tool available, even if its mechanics are slightly different.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 839	Posted - 2015.06.30 19:26:00 - [48] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: ,Shields arn't supposed to be repped. shield suits are designed, not for prolonged fights. but rather quick 'pop up shoot/duck n recharge' kinda fights. maybe if people used them correctly instead of thinking every suit has to be a full on GRRRR!! suit they might have a bit more luck. This philosophy doesnt work in practice, since with a triage hive or logi an armor suit can completely outclass any caldari suit at any range with any weapon. So why ever use a shield suit? Something has to be done to allow shield based fits to compete with armor based suits. The only reason to use shields right now is to add buffer onto a speed fit.
el OPERATOR Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.30 20:20:00 - [49] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Shield repair tool as described already exists: Its called cover. Its everywhere, get in some. You are just being a **. Shields NEED a piece of equipment to support them. The comment was **-ish, sure, but as it is shields have 2 different modules for optimization (doing what the OP calls for in a seperate equipment) so really the only missing element is the discretion of the user ie. cover use and engagement selection. The rest of this is replogis not understanding that repping is only a fraction of what you need to be doing in battle. Theres plenty of work to be done, get to it and quit crying for more WP hydrants. When that shield frame drops into armor you can leash and rep him. Calling it "more WP hydrants" is kind of misleading, its not about getting more WP, you can already get absurd amount of WP with the armor repair tools. This is about balancing shield meta game against armor meta game. Logis wont be getting more points, since this is an alternative to an existing mechanic (the rep tool), not an additional mechanic that will be in effect at the same time. I dont think its too much to ask that people who want to run Caldari gear have an option like the rep tool available, even if its mechanics are slightly different. It is a new hydrant tho in the sense that with a shield reptool logis will sit and rep shields, gleaning wp, until the damage is into armor where they'll switch tools, sit and rep armor, gleaning more wp. I don't think its too much to ask but when the answer consistently comes back as a no it is a bit much to just keep asking over and over. Especially when its in the context of removing something else that works fine. The shield vs armor balance discrepency is purely hp, imo, buff those extenders and call it a day. Open-Beta Vet. CAPCRO Nomad. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 839	Posted - 2015.06.30 20:33:00 - [50] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Shield repair tool as described already exists: Its called cover. Its everywhere, get in some. You are just being a **. Shields NEED a piece of equipment to support them. The comment was **-ish, sure, but as it is shields have 2 different modules for optimization (doing what the OP calls for in a seperate equipment) so really the only missing element is the discretion of the user ie. cover use and engagement selection. The rest of this is replogis not understanding that repping is only a fraction of what you need to be doing in battle. Theres plenty of work to be done, get to it and quit crying for more WP hydrants. When that shield frame drops into armor you can leash and rep him. Calling it "more WP hydrants" is kind of misleading, its not about getting more WP, you can already get absurd amount of WP with the armor repair tools. This is about balancing shield meta game against armor meta game. Logis wont be getting more points, since this is an alternative to an existing mechanic (the rep tool), not an additional mechanic that will be in effect at the same time. I dont think its too much to ask that people who want to run Caldari gear have an option like the rep tool available, even if its mechanics are slightly different. It is a new hydrant tho in the sense that with a shield reptool logis will sit and rep shields, gleaning wp, until the damage is into armor where they'll switch tools, sit and rep armor, gleaning more wp. I don't think its too much to ask but when the answer consistently comes back as a no it is a bit much to just keep asking over and over. Especially when its in the context of removing something else that works fine. The shield vs armor balance discrepency is purely hp, imo, buff those extenders and call it a day. Its not just HP, its fitting options, support options, regen disparity after the repair module buff, no tactical anti armor option, etc. There are a large number of problems with armor v. shield balance, and HP disparity and lack of any kind of repair tool like option is only two of many issues at play that make shields trash overall.

Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 1	Posted - 2015.06.30 20:43:00 - [51] - Quote I was toying with the idea of a shield hardener tool, a % increase to shield durability that increases by tier, but has stacking penalties for the number of tools active per target, or a capacitor limit that doesnt allow for infinite use (both should apply to armor tools as well). Even as a dedicated logi, I feel that armor reps, and rep tools fa4 outclass the shield, and should have some drawbacks. There definitely however needs to be some sort of shield augmentation that isn't reliant on modules. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
el OPERATOR Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.30 20:52:00 - [52] - Quote Shields aren't trash. I don't think in all my playing time I've built a single fit that didn't have something on it for shields except the time I ran a (whatever)-1 without shields, got smoked quick and said, "well that was a dumb idea". They just aren't armor so the playstyle is different. Adding to the shieldmeta to make it more like the armormeta would be a homogenization, no? An "equalizing" that really is just a normalizing? You want to stand and brawl, get some armor. You want to hit and run go shields. You want a racial class but to play with a different style then mod it up but accept you aren't going to perform identically as the racial rooted in that style. You'll be competitive but not identical. Open-Beta Vet. CAPCRO Nomad. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.30 21:29:00 - [53] - Quote So why after all this time and after so many threads for a shield reptool hasn't anyone proposed that the existing tool just also apply a delay eliminator/slight regen booster at the same time as it reps armor? Did it come up and I miss it? Wouldn't that satisfy the shield support folks AND the no-more leashes crowd? Open-Beta Vet. CAPCRO Nomad. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.30 21:30:00 - [54] - Quote lol did it get suggested and I plc'd it with my patented point-blank logic technique? Open-Beta Vet. CAPCRO Nomad. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
knight guard fury Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2015.06.30 21:32:00 - [55] - Quote its funny that in dust minmatar have armor focused repair tools but in eve we have more bonuses to shield repairs Kin of the Vherokior tribe and warrior of the republic Self proclaimed minmatar lore master
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 839	Posted - 2015.06.30 21:42:00 - [56] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Shields aren't trash. I don't think in all my playing time I've built a single fit that didn't have something on it for shields except the time I ran a (whatever)-1 without shields, got smoked quick and said, "well that was a dumb idea". They just aren't armor so the playstyle is different. Adding to the shieldmeta to make it more like the armormeta would be a homogenization, no? An "equalizing" that really is just a normalizing? You want to stand and brawl, get some armor. You want to hit and run go shields. You want a racial class but to play with a different style then mod it up but accept you aren't going to perform identically as the racial rooted in that style. You'll be competitive but not identical. I dont want to homogenize the tanking styles, but seriously the shield playstyle is described as long range shoot and hide/run. But the thing is, armor suits are better at long range shooting engagements, particularly with support, so that leaves hide and run. I dont think HIDE AND RUN is a role in this game thats very fulfilling unless it somehow accomplishes something. Not only that but speed tanked shield buffer min assaults are better than cal assault at hiding and running. This leaves dedicated shield tanks with... nothing. They just ******* suck and are outclassed by everything. Shield needs to be improved so that it can do SOMETHING better than armor or speed tanks. "Shields" can compliment any fitting, however Im not talking about just putting some extenders on. Im talking about dedicated shield tank fits. These fits are just globally, objectively inferior at everything to other suits. Period. Theres alot of reasons for this, and I certainly would like shield fittings to be viable, but they just arent. Well. Credit where its due: if you are in a one on one situation, and the other guy is in a armor suit, and you have a shield suit, you will have a slight regen advantage IF you can disengage from the fight for the entire length of time you need for your regen to take effect and finish its work AND the enemy armor suit has no triage hives. Thats about it. That is literally the only nice thing I can say about shield tanking fits. Its just not enough.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 839	Posted - 2015.06.30 21:44:00 - [57] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: So why after all this time and after so many threads for a shield reptool hasn't anyone proposed that the existing tool just also apply a delay eliminator/slight regen booster at the same time as it reps armor? Did it come up and I miss it? Wouldn't that satisfy the shield support folks AND the no-more leashes crowd? I think Ive seen it suggested, but Im not going to go digging it up ;d
Echo 1991 Dead Man's Game 884	Posted - 2015.07.01 00:59:00 - [58] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: its funny that in dust minmatar have armor focused repair tools but in eve we have more bonuses to shield repairs I find it funny too. Though I got told that EVE mechanics don't work in dust because reasons. Wanna play eve?


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