DUST Search - Soooo, Bolt Pistols

sir RAVEN WING wrote:

Let us take a simple look at your sidearm. (I will get to BP soon. I just wanted to address this when I can.)

It's hit detection isn't perfect, although it is decent. A charge shot can easily OHK a PRO Caldari Assault. (Spoken from experience. GG to Kubo for that though. A basic sidearm OHKing you... fun.) It's not 'horribly UP.' like I hear, but instead decent, although I would say fixing dispersion on it would very much fix the 'Hit Detection' problem.

Now, Bolt Pistol.

Well, I would say it is borderline OP. Not exactly OP, but close. I have been bested countless times due to it's charge, and hipfire. (Which is, if you use it, not all it's made to seem.)

The damage is the main reason I use it, when I fail to kill with my PLC, I whip it out and fire, this works about 65% of the time.

I'd rather buff the others though, instead of nerfing this weapon.

@Kirk
I have a few questions.

1) Do you use the BP? I ask because you mention not using what you consider 'OP' weapons, and you clearly consider this OP.

2) Unrelated, but I would like to hear your opinion on the Magsec.

3) Why counter attack MINA? Don't feed the trolls man. (Just pointing out that I do not see any bias here, although I have before.)

EDIT: It's Adipem Nothi, I know you dislike him, but at least spell his name correctly.

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tal mrak-thanl Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 23:03:00 - [61] - Quote Is bullet magnetism a trait of all the weapons, with most having no or low value? Is the Bolt Pistol the only weapon with high magnetism? Director - Corrosive Synergy
Oswald Rehnquist 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 23:13:00 - [62] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Bolt pistol is in a good spot, but the SMG is clearly better all around. Not sure why the bolt pistol is so rage inducing for people, but I think its fine myself, and the crappy sidearms (scrambler pistol/ion pistol/magsec) should be brought up to the SMG/flaylock/bolt pistol/nove knife level, not the other way around. Kind of my line of thought, I honestly want all the sidearms to be competitive, including the Ion and magsec (the two weakest). I don't pretend to not be sidearm biased, I want to see them fielded more often and for more combinations of duel sidearm fits to be viable. Below 28 dB
GRIM GEAR Nos Nothi 482	Posted - 2015.05.28 23:25:00 - [63] - Quote The bolt pistols hip fire magnetism is far too strong; you don't even have to aim directly at your targets head and you get your +60 war points points. It is in-fact harder to get a headshot with the bolt pistol aiming down sights, now that is totally back to front.( inb4 some scrub suggests increasing the bp ads magnetism to match the hip fire magnetism) Cup of tea anyone? I came here to mingle can you hear that jingle that would be me lingle.
Songs of Seraphim Negative-Feedback. 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 23:30:00 - [64] - Quote GRIM GEAR wrote: The bolt pistols hip fire magnetism is far too strong; you don't even have to aim directly at your targets head and you get your +60 war points. It is in-fact harder to get a headshot with the bolt pistol aiming down sights, now that is totally back to front.( inb4 some scrub suggests increasing the bp ads magnetism to match the hip fire magnetism) Increez magnits fo da headshot plox I'd rather bring up the sidearms up to par. Mainly any variant other than Breach for the Scrambler Pistol, the Magsec, and the Ion's heat/seizure. Caldari Loyalist Join Caldari FW via Kirjuun Saaja
killertojo42 KnightKiller's inc. 169	Posted - 2015.05.28 23:36:00 - [65] - Quote Old bolt pistol = slightly less than half the damage and twice the clip, still would be bery powerful, i loved the old BP, it was perfect Because both of us dying as I'm in my nomad BPO is to my benefit rank 10 winmataar
Imp Smash molon labe. RUST415 859	Posted - 2015.05.29 00:33:00 - [66] - Quote Amazing sidearm thanks to aim assist. Almost always lands its shot in hipfire. Stops shotgun scouts all day. Almost never lands its shot (strafing +hit detection) when ADS, therefore without aim assist easily a terrible sidearm. Still weaker than the SMG line. Should fix THOSE first...
Oswald Rehnquist 1	Posted - 2015.05.29 00:47:00 - [67] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Amazing sidearm thanks to aim assist. Almost always lands its shot in hipfire. Stops shotgun scouts all day. Almost never lands its shot (strafing +hit detection) when ADS, therefore without aim assist easily a terrible sidearm. Still weaker than the SMG line. Should fix THOSE first... Using magsec/BrScP now, but it seems like I need to try this hipfire more, as I always use ADS, a habit I picked up when the BP first came out. I don't find the ADS with the bolt terrible that bad though. Also just to explain my position biases, I ran nothing buts scouts since closed beta, so all of my approaches involve flanking, which means the target isn't dancing or actively fighting back, which is why I ADS most of my shots. Below 28 dB
LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy No Context 4	Posted - 2015.05.29 01:26:00 - [68] - Quote DAT BScP doh... DAT IoP charge shot doh... DAT SMG hipfire doh... Seriously, every sidearm has considerable magnetism... Not sure what's new here. Sniper Rifles are for Nitrogenous Dioxide Borons First to PM me with common name wins (no Hyansaru, u win too much ;P)
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 414	Posted - 2015.05.29 01:39:00 - [69] - Quote Songs of Seraphim wrote: I can't even hear my own thoughts. Damn gig is loud. There's similar aim adhesion across pistols (yes, I'm trying my hand at the Ion Pistol -- dat charged headshot doe). More so on the Scrambler Pistol, it seems. There is higher user error on the Bolt Pistol, but the damage overrides that a tad. dont know about that. for me with the bolt pistol its pew pew+50 pewpew+50 reload pewpew +50 pewpew+50 reload pew miss pewpew+50 pew reload Moo? . . . Le Moo?
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 766	Posted - 2015.05.29 03:00:00 - [70] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Amazing sidearm thanks to aim assist. Almost always lands its shot in hipfire. Stops shotgun scouts all day. Almost never lands its shot (strafing +hit detection) when ADS, therefore without aim assist easily a terrible sidearm. Still weaker than the SMG line. Should fix THOSE first... Theres nothing wrong with the SMG... what is the deal with you guys who think all the sidearms should be ****? Or do you think the SMG is better than any of the rifles or something?

Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven 4	Posted - 2015.05.29 03:07:00 - [71] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Amazing sidearm thanks to aim assist. Almost always lands its shot in hipfire. Stops shotgun scouts all day. Almost never lands its shot (strafing +hit detection) when ADS, therefore without aim assist easily a terrible sidearm. Still weaker than the SMG line. Should fix THOSE first... Theres nothing wrong with the SMG... what is the deal with you guys who think all the sidearms should be ****? Or do you think the SMG is better than any of the rifles or something? The SMG is still king of the sidearms. Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel My Minja Blog Caldari blood, Matari heart <3
Oswald Rehnquist 1	Posted - 2015.05.29 03:27:00 - [72] - Quote Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Amazing sidearm thanks to aim assist. Almost always lands its shot in hipfire. Stops shotgun scouts all day. Almost never lands its shot (strafing +hit detection) when ADS, therefore without aim assist easily a terrible sidearm. Still weaker than the SMG line. Should fix THOSE first... Theres nothing wrong with the SMG... what is the deal with you guys who think all the sidearms should be ****? Or do you think the SMG is better than any of the rifles or something? The SMG is still king of the sidearms. Precisely, after all the other hot topics get covered, sidearm balancing will be needed. Hopefully bringing it up to the level of the SMG rather than bring everything down, which is why I don't endorse the OP just yet because the aim of it is misguided (pun intended). The biggest challenges will be the Ion and Magsec due to comparative light weapons that compete within its range and function. The SMG became king because it has a unique function and range which doesn't step any any light weapon to warrant a complaint. Ion has to be careful of not offending shotgunners, and magsecs have to be careful in not offending the battle rifles. For these I think the mechanism need to be made more extreme to allow dominance in the role its given. but that discussion is for another thread Below 28 dB
Oswald Rehnquist 1	Posted - 2015.05.29 09:42:00 - [73] - Quote For the record though, I take no issues with reducing hipfire magnetism of the bolt pistol. Its not needed to be what it is. ADS is there for a reason and the bolt should be built for ADSing. That being said, greater sidearm parity is still needed. Below 28 dB
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.05.29 11:46:00 - [74] - Quote On a simple look, the Bolt Pistol is insanely OP I have ran it since release, was happier with the first setup 5 in clip w/less DMG.. The 'Buff' added overkill but given the fact you lost a bullet in clip, kills take longer if you miss So far balancing, reverting back to the old BP would be great. However.. To claim the BP is in a worse state than any other sidearm is biased and false. - Bolt Pistol - Aplha DMG too high, simply adding the old stats provides a clean fix. - ScR Pistol - Depends on variants, the regular is needle accurate, the Breach is an Amarr BP. - Ion Pistol - I would claim this as the OP sidearm - Charge shots almost hitting 1k DMG. - Flaylock - 4 in a clip more than a rocket pistol, thats job is usually complete in 1/2 shots needs - SMG - The mini Combat Rifle still shreds in CQC - Magsec - Can be decent, but clearly the 'worst' sidearm - Nove Knives - WTF!! is this aim adhesion!! please pick range / aim adhesion.. not both People are going to read through and be like 'Dafuq!, he just claimed the Ion Pistol is OP!' I'll back it with some explanation... I have used the Bolt Pistol since release, formerly it was the BrScRP as the rewards for accuracy on these weapons is OP, so I like them After countless squads ranting and hatemail over my scrubby use of a BP I got bored...Used the spare SP to get Ion Pistol 5 with some core skills for it, and daaayyyyyyyuumm The Ion Pistol is a pocket shotgun!! in 10-20m I crap my pants facing one. Using it, I never had so many OHK's outside of using a Plasma Cannon. As usual what confuses Dust mercs is it has a role, CQC, not fighting a range instead of realizing this, many will ask for a buff, so it can do both.. Ion is a really good sidearm, a buff could lead to it being the new SMG (used on most fits) - Any buff/nerfs wont really affect me with my ignorance L5 along with all sidearms L5 - FOR ONCE!! while balancing, can we look at all the issues rather than lining 1 weapon up for QQ As many players are demonstrating, wait, bait n' charge shot in da face = 50wp But of course, a weapon that takes 'skill' and it 'overheats' has enough drawback that it needs an OP feature It's not like this has not ened up very, very messy before... glances at ScR - My long barbaric rants can be summed up pretty quickly. TL;DR - All sidearms benefit too much from AA, along with a stupid headshot multiplier - Adding these together is just asking for tears, luckily CCP usually go out collecting with buckets Te Sbundo'd
Imp Smash Molon Labe. RUST415 859	Posted - 2015.05.30 04:07:00 - [75] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Amazing sidearm thanks to aim assist. Almost always lands its shot in hipfire. Stops shotgun scouts all day. Almost never lands its shot (strafing +hit detection) when ADS, therefore without aim assist easily a terrible sidearm. Still weaker than the SMG line. Should fix THOSE first... Theres nothing wrong with the SMG... what is the deal with you guys who think all the sidearms should be **? Or do you think the SMG is better than any of the rifles or something? I don't think the SMG should be **. But it competes on virtually even ground with a light weapon -- with less skill required. Same with the BP. It competes with light weapons, same skill level required. Other side arms are either significantly weaker DPS wise, or harder to use.
sir RAVEN WING 3	Posted - 2015.05.30 05:10:00 - [76] - Quote Let us take a simple look at your sidearm. (I will get to BP soon. I just wanted to address this when I can.) It's hit detection isn't perfect, although it is decent. A charge shot can easily OHK a PRO Caldari Assault. (Spoken from experience. GG to Kubo for that though. A basic sidearm OHKing you... fun.) It's not 'horribly UP.' like I hear, but instead decent, although I would say fixing dispersion on it would very much fix the 'Hit Detection' problem. Now, Bolt Pistol. Well, I would say it is borderline OP. Not exactly OP, but close. I have been bested countless times due to it's charge, and hipfire. (Which is, if you use it, not all it's made to seem.) The damage is the main reason I use it, when I fail to kill with my PLC, I whip it out and fire, this works about 65% of the time. I'd rather buff the others though, instead of nerfing this weapon. @Kirk I have a few questions. 1) Do you use the BP? I ask because you mention not using what you consider 'OP' weapons, and you clearly consider this OP. 2) Unrelated, but I would like to hear your opinion on the Magsec. 3) Why counter attack MINA? Don't feed the trolls man. (Just pointing out that I do not see any bias here, although I have before.) EDIT: It's Adipem Nothi, I know you dislike him, but at least spell his name correctly. *Official Forum Bird* "Agony is the body cleansing itself." - Viktor Revon
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.05.30 05:32:00 - [77] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: Let us take a simple look at your sidearm. (I will get to BP soon. I just wanted to address this when I can.) It's hit detection isn't perfect, although it is decent. A charge shot can easily OHK a PRO Caldari Assault. (Spoken from experience. GG to Kubo for that though. A basic sidearm OHKing you... fun.) It's not 'horribly UP.' like I hear, but instead decent, although I would say fixing dispersion on it would very much fix the 'Hit Detection' problem. Now, Bolt Pistol. Well, I would say it is borderline OP. Not exactly OP, but close. I have been bested countless times due to it's charge, and hipfire. (Which is, if you use it, not all it's made to seem.) The damage is the main reason I use it, when I fail to kill with my PLC, I whip it out and fire, this works about 65% of the time. I'd rather buff the others though, instead of nerfing this weapon. @Kirk I have a few questions. 1) Do you use the BP? I ask because you mention not using what you consider 'OP' weapons, and you clearly consider this OP. 2) Unrelated, but I would like to hear your opinion on the Magsec. 3) Why counter attack MINA? Don't feed the trolls man. (Just pointing out that I do not see any bias here, although I have before.) EDIT: It's Adipem Nothi, I know you dislike him, but at least spell his name correctly. First, I do like the Ion Pistol, It's not terribly bad but then I remember I have max skills and just then it's 50% 50% and gets slightly better chances after getting the feel for the weapon's functionality while strafing for 2 years. I do have a Caldari alt as well as Minmatar with 35+ million SP each that I use when I'm tired of being the primary target of everyone on the enemy team. Bolt Pistol, while I thought it was decent when it first came out, the main problem was it being heavily outshined by the OP flaylock of the day and the hit detection issues that were the same as the Ion Pistols. Even with the huge buff it got, still my only issue with the weapon is the magnetism of the weapon and that's it. Magsec, while I think is a really awesome weapon providing a unique take on the SMG could still use a bit of a tune up. I don't use it nor expect it to be used like the Minmatar SMG but a longer ranged variant and it treats me well. I have to respool it sometimes in laggy matches because it doesn't want to register that it's firing yet still uses up rounds....but that's a problem with all rails for some reason. Like you said about the Ion Pistol, that reduction to dispersion will most likely fix the weapon, anything more to the weapon might put it in OP territory. Yeah, I should learn when I'm just being baited. I've had some pretty ridiculous claims said against me (wasn't kidding when I said some people think I have a hack that makes people DC, lag and perma scan [I don't even run logistics] in my favor) so that's another thing I need to learn to just ignore. Lastly, a lot of people jumped exaggeration, strawman and hyperbole with the original statement. All I asked was is they were going to be addressed anytime soon, amongst the many things I gripe about in this game I found it odd I haven't talked about the Bolt Pistol as much as I have with other things of the same annoyance. Also, sorry that this is a bit jumbled but I was just about to head to sleep, just wanted to peak my head in the forums before I clocked out for the night. Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
Cody Sietz Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 4	Posted - 2015.05.30 15:05:00 - [78] - Quote I'm just glad they can't strafe and hipfire while doing crazy amounts of dmg http://m.imgur.com/w1zg98a oh wait... "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
lowdevil Savage Bullet RUST415 77	Posted - 2015.05.30 15:10:00 - [79] - Quote just remove all aim assist. fixed.
Cody Sietz Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 4	Posted - 2015.05.30 15:12:00 - [80] - Quote lowdevil wrote: just remove all aim assist. fixed. And bullet magnatisim. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire

Mobius Wyvern Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.05.30 15:27:00 - [81] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Are they going to be addressed anytime soon? The aim adhesion of those things are completely ridiculous Point at enemy. Lock-On Achieved. Obtain all the kills. killertojo42 wrote: Old bolt pistol = slightly less than half the damage and twice the clip, still would be bery powerful, i loved the old BP, it was perfect That's another good point: why was it changed in the first place? The old Bolt Pistol's stats were perfectly fine. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Ralden Caster Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 243	Posted - 2015.05.30 15:30:00 - [82] - Quote I think that the headshot multiplier on the bolt pistol should be toned down; the scrambler pistol is supposed to be the one to crack open clone craniums. Have you ever looked up at the stars and realize that somewhere, out there, there is always something ON FIRE?


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