Hi guys,

Just wanted to let you know we will be making a temp fix for the Swarm Launcher OHK issues people have been complaining about. There will be a very significant nerf to the splash damage and direct damage against infantry targets in the next update.

This is a bit of a brute force fix but it should solve the issues youGÇÖre currently experiencing. WeGÇÖll be looking at a more elegant solution for a future release when we have a bit more time to work on it.

Cheers

CCP Wolfman

Just wanted to let you know we will be making a temp fix for the Swarm Launcher OHK issues people have been complaining about. There will be a very significant nerf to the splash damage and direct damage against infantry targets in the next update.

I propose the inclusion of a signature radius on all objects. Obviously vehicles and installations have a larger sig radius and will take more damage. Heavies should have a higher radius too, with scouts being the smallest and taking little damage from swarm launchers. Leave everything else as is.

End effect is that it is less effective against assault and scouts which won't be one-shotted, but it can still be used as a form of suppressing fire against groups of enemies.

This change will only change their effectiveness against infantry. They should actually be a little more effective against vehicles because we have also lowered the lock on time and tightened the firing spread for lock on.

WHen will this update happen?

This update is due around the end of June/beginning of July.

This update is due around the end of June/beginning of July.

easy guys, they don't choose to release it in 2 - 3 weeks, that's just how it goes, I hate feeling like an account manager and ccp are the programmers - all we ever complain about is why it isn't out yesterday. I suppose it can be conceived as a good thing, what with demand and all that, but as a programmer who deals with that kind of environment I'm just happy humbled to see a company keeping such close contact with the community.

As relaxed, social and upbeat I see the comments from the CCP guys (of all departments) I consider this the utmost of professionalism to deal with us.

thanks for the update wolfman, keep up the good work

Are we all really saying that a weapon capable of punching holes in tanks should not be able to kill an infantryman?? I know that right now it takes more than one hit to bring down a heavy most times. Yes, it's a powerful weapon and it sucks to get shot point blank with it. There must be a better solution than nerfing the damage it does to infantry. I do like the idea of one charge at a time in the weapon. Having to reload after each shot gives the man behind the sacrificial point man the opportunity to come in and deal with the rocketeer.

Or perhaps do it like the army, you don't walk into a room when you are clearing it. You throw grenades in first and then go in and clean up the mess. Or perhaps instead of granades, flamethrowers? They are handy for cooking out the bad guys if they are dug into a hardened position.

Anyways, my two cents.

PS. The army is primarily used as stationary units; most of them (99.9%) do not "clear" rooms.

AV munitions and rockets detonate by a directional charge trying to punch a hole in the armour it actually hits, and deliver the damage through that, failing that it'll still deliver the majority of its charge forward weakening the armour or shield of the target, and with only a minor amount of "splash" damage beyond the immediate area.

What is the point of testing if the changes role out this slowly?

[quote=CasonovaX]

For now I'll stock up on Swarm launchers for the next few weekends. As much as I now loathe that weapon, it is more or less required in order to deal with all the other people using them, and if I don't make use of them while the enemy does, it'll reduce my chances of winning.

This update is due around the end of June/beginning of July.

Thanks.
Sadly that means we still have to contend with Swarm launchers and hard freezes for a few more weeks :(

My problem with a random nerf to the weapon is this. Its supposed to be the "base" weapon for the Sentinal class. This means this will be the Base BPO that that character class gets. As such if all you can do is damage turrets and it still takes like 4 shots of your 6 total to blow something up for 100 while waiting for reloads and everything is going to make infantry the best point grind class in the game.

Its already a spread rocket that blows up on the mountains and the spash damage seems to suck anyhow unless your point blank, and then your dieing to those heavy saw belt fed guns that just maw down infantry.

There needs to be a balance between how much damage you do and how many points a class can earn without nerfing it and making it build/vehicle only. Especially as a "primary" weapon where you get a pistol as a side arm which does nothing.. especially when people have all this shield recharge by the time you reload.

I'd rather they test that one a few more times in-house before crashing our PS3's :P

Hi guys,

Just wanted to let you know we will be making a temp fix for the Swarm Launcher OHK issues people have been complaining about. There will be a very significant nerf to the splash damage and direct damage against infantry targets in the next update.

This is a bit of a brute force fix but it should solve the issues youGÇÖre currently experiencing. WeGÇÖll be looking at a more elegant solution for a future release when we have a bit more time to work on it.

Cheers

CCP Wolfman

Why not make it only launch when a vehicle is locked?

An idea I had to deal with the AV weapons being used against infantry is this.. Currently, I do not know of ANY weapons system in the entire world that's infantry based and can be shot while on the move. Thus, my proposal is this. Set up the SWARMs and maybe the forge gun too, (albeit I haven't really looked into that yet) so that the in order to fire, the person shooting has to be stationary.. This will eliminate the majority of the issues with it as it's related to anti-infantry.

I don't agree that the swarms need nerfing i think that having a gun that can do damage to a tank or jeep and be significant from a drop suit is necessary so that those heavily tanked suits or vehicles actually can be blown up. Splash damage should affect everything though ie the user of the swarm launcher if too close to impact point. This would eliminate people shooting around and into a wall making them a target if briefly to anyone getting shot by the swarm.

My scoutsuit invincibles now...


Also I like Ponys

My Ideas on the Swarm launcher. The fix and the nerf. Not going to lie really going to destroy the use of it currently Vehicles are and stationary units are going to gain a huge advantage now.

First idea. The simple fix.
1. Make it lock only
2. Means it is lock only they need to be put in as a secondary weapon.
3. Either you can allow it just everyone is able or it could be a good way to boost a certain line of a logistics command dropsuit user and let them use them. Increase damage output maybe??? and Give fewer rounds.


Second Idea the complex fix to keep it in a primary weapon spot.

1. Only one round in the chamber with 5 back up rounds to reload with.
2. Slower reload times 50% slower
3. 60% faster lock on time
4. Keep damage and OHK abilities on Inf as it is now.
5. Fix how splash damage effects the person who shoots the SL

If you are going to keep the Swarm launcher as a viable primary spot weapon it needs to keep a one hit kill ability in case you get caught up trying to take down a vehicle. If you set up swarm launchers with 1 shot in the chamber and slower reload. Yes people are going to still run around with these griefing people but they are never going to do well. And if they miss that first shot they are going to be screwed.

3rd Idea with how your nerf has been set up.
keep nerf how it is but do a big increase to splash damage radius. so people can not just jump out of range from your shot. When I run against a swarm user it is so easy to avoid there shot by just jumping it is impossible to kill me unless the missles hit me directly. so with nerf you will have to be the luckies guy in the whole game to get kills with the SL unless the blast radius damage is increased.

i agree with you 100%

the game is set up to where the dust mercs are using extremely dangerous weps even with a suit on...ccp states this in a dev video...so of course you are gonna have mercs running around with a swarm launcher nuking everybody since they know they will respawn...if ya see a swarm launcher then run the other way and find a way to kill it

Adapt Or Die

(am i the only one that wants this game to be as unforgiving as EVE?)

It's not a question of unforgiving.. But the way it is now, (we'll see the changes) it's a weapon that is a jack of all trades, thus not a good weapon for the game that's all about spreading out roles etc. It'd be like having 1 particular ship that can do Long range and short range battles all at once with an area of effect weapon that is equally devastating against titans as well as frigates.

Hi guys,

Just wanted to let you know we will be making a temp fix for the Swarm Launcher OHK issues people have been complaining about. There will be a very significant nerf to the splash damage and direct damage against infantry targets in the next update.

This is a bit of a brute force fix but it should solve the issues youGÇÖre currently experiencing. WeGÇÖll be looking at a more elegant solution for a future release when we have a bit more time to work on it.

Cheers

CCP Wolfman

This update is due around the end of June/beginning of July.

Hi guys,

Just wanted to let you know we will be making a temp fix for the Swarm Launcher OHK issues people have been complaining about. There will be a very significant nerf to the splash damage and direct damage against infantry targets in the next update.

This is a bit of a brute force fix but it should solve the issues youGÇÖre currently experiencing. WeGÇÖll be looking at a more elegant solution for a future release when we have a bit more time to work on it.

Cheers

CCP Wolfman

bronies ftw!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_launcher

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-fired_missile


nothing about killing lone infantry,

lock on only please

Thank god now give us a grenade indicator

You want to fix swarm launchers make it a heavy weapon..... There boom fixed now only heavy slow moving armor can use them not fast agile scouts running jumping firing them blindly. Also makes it to where the lone ranger cant setup his own nano hive and shoot off rockets till his eyes bleed.

Why don't you just make things like;

Heavy Drop Suits - MiniGuns - Swarm Launchers

More Expensive!

This would trend more with real life as a "launcher" would be stupidly OP but it costs a lot of money
A Heavy Drop Suit SHOULD have lots more armor but thats cos u PAID for it.

This way I would be less annoyed when ;
"I have shot a heavy with an entire clip of a prototype gun but because I didnt hit them in the head enough they kill me while Im reloading"

I will be able to think

"well thats what they paid for"

This would trend more with real life as a "launcher" would be stupidly OP but it costs a lot of money
A Heavy Drop Suit SHOULD have lots more armor but thats cos u PAID for it.

Hi guys,

Just wanted to let you know we will be making a temp fix for the Swarm Launcher OHK issues people have been complaining about. There will be a very significant nerf to the splash damage and direct damage against infantry targets in the next update.

This is a bit of a brute force fix but it should solve the issues youGÇÖre currently experiencing. WeGÇÖll be looking at a more elegant solution for a future release when we have a bit more time to work on it.

Cheers

CCP Wolfman

They really werent joking about the nerf. its useless now :(

yep seeeing how we have mil tanks why use the SL any more its junk now !

YOU were one of those abusing the swarm launcher to kill infantry so your opinion is null and void.
I am using the SL as its intended to kill structures, tanks, dropships and LAVs.

Please feed my SL more LAVs.
16 and 0 just killing tanks/dropships so the SL is FIXED!!
Amen!

made for the 12yrs old sped kids to use !

o so your the dead wate on my team as were all trying to take the point your just siting there jacking it to drop ship kills in the back of the map ya good job man i see your happy with being what every other 12 yr old kid is going to do when this game go,s live is sit in the back like you do and do nuffing but shoot drop ships all day and ask the team to do every thing for you and cry at the end cuz your team lost and you dint get the added exp or money if you would have got off your lazzy @$$ and did something other they try to shoot down drop ships all day !

ya its fixed all rite made for the 12yrs old sped kids to use !

I tested the swarm launcher earlier and it has ent changed did it not get put in the update

I guess your right will it be lock on in ye offical game

It changed quite a bit. Some for the better... Some for the worst. Personally I still feel it is a viable weapon to use. Some of the changes;

1. Magazine size is now 2 instead of four.
2. Missiles can be evaded.

What makes it even more of a nerf is that the heaavy armor dropsuits have no equipment slot, and thus cannot carry their own nanohive to mitigate ammo restriction. .

2) Will the lock break at the same moment you move the reticle upwards (in order to launch missiles properly)?

1) When using a lock, do you have to lock each round separately?

I assume target making it behind a obstacle doesn't matter.

Alright. I might as well report my own personal experiences with the Swarm Launcher here.

Now Swarm Launchers as I was politely told by my fellows Arkombine (thanks again for the tips) are Light Weapons. However from my specializing in the Swarm Launchers as best as I can, the skills don't seem to have a considerable effect upon their performance. At least concerning the capacity and so forth but reloading does have an influence. I wonder if this was an intentional design or not but so far, there is no difference in ammo capacity for a swarm launcher when pumping skills up.

Since capacity skill adds +5%, and for example basic forge gun have 16round in, you need to skill up capacity skill to lvl 2 to get that +1extra charge(because 5% of 16 is 0.8). SL in the previous version was L weapon.

Swarm Launcher is still a light weapon. The Swarm Launcher comes with so few rounds that you need Light Weapon capacity 4 to get an extra round.

Light Weapon Sharpshooter does not appear to have any affect on the Swarm Launcher.

As stated previously the reload skill does have an affect.

And I forget what the fourth skill is. :(

Then why CCP put heavy mod instead of light to militia "Shock" fiting?

My gut feeling, based on what you are asking / saying, is that it is not locked yet. Remember it does take a few seconds to actually lock and you have to hold the button that entire time and you have to have a clear radar-line of sight to the target that entire time.

When I say clear radar-line of site, there are certain battlefield materials where you can get a lock, even if you cannot see the target. For example there are certain concrete walls that allow you to lock-on even though you cannot see the target, just their icon. ;)

Holy cow they need to un-nerf the direct hit damage against tanks. Unless you've got a forge gun on your team, high level tanks will run roughshod over you. I'll spend literally the entire match Swarming against a tank who can insta kill me on sight and drive shockingly fast around the map, only to get his armor down to ~15% at the end of the match.

I get that they are expensive and tough, but the only difference between a high level Swarm Launcher and the basic model is two extra missiles. If they all manage to hit, that's only 700 extra damage.

The low splash damage is fine for keeping people from abusing it against infantry (though it renders the splash radius upgrades useless) but the direct hit damage needs to go up for everything but the basic and militia models.

Since dropships are much more fragile, we need to nerf the lock-on against them. Missiles shouldn't be able to track them endlessly across the map. Currently, I am every dropship's worst nightmare but useless against all but militia and low level tanks.

Also, there needs to be some kind of audio or visual indicator of when the launcher is ready to lock on again. If you press the button too soon, nothing happens. (Sometimes nothing happens at all until you switch weapons and switch back.) It's very frustrating to wrangle the targeting when your victim is shooting back or making a break for cover.

TL;DR - Fine against infantry now, direct hit damage against tanks needs a serious boost, the lock on system needs to be refined, and dropships need a way to avoid missiles once they're locked on and away.

TL;DR - Fine against infantry now, direct hit damage against tanks needs a serious boost, the lock on system needs to be refined, and dropships need a way to avoid missiles once they're locked on and away.

swarm launchers have infinite flight time. the flight time of the swarm needs to be capped, or lessened, because right now i dont see them ever not hitting me after i see the swarm and fly away from it.

Yeah, tanks with insane shields take far too long to destroy, blasted one with all my anti-vechicle grenades and swarms and barely made a scratch.

Disagree with the dropship thing.
Only thing that could be done, is to give dropships anti-missile weapons to use like flares or something similar. This might even balance them a bit against infantry as well as you'd need to decide whether to take extra defense against missiles or firepower.

I think some kind of limited capacity chaff or flare item would be ideal. That way they're not invincible, but can at least survive the first salvo or two. (Then the pilot will know a SL is after him and adjust his tactics; it's probably annoying to learn of the shooter's mere existence via 3 salvos already locked on.)

swarm launchers have infinite flight time. the flight time of the swarm needs to be capped, or lessened, because right now i dont see them ever not hitting me after i see the swarm and fly away from it.

See.......... I had no idea that they had infinite flight time or that you get no warning that someone is trying to lock you up so youve nullified me even using countermeasures....and militia get these for free come on man....I reported this as a bug....I was playing the other night and I thought these missiles flying out side my shields while my booster was on and following me at slow speed then once it shut off and they hit my armor causing the vehicle to be destroyed was a bug. Uh can I have my skill points back that I put into dropships back please cause a missile that can track me and fly forever is OP... dont nerf damage ,let them lock on, give drop ships a warning tone for enemy attempting lock.Infinite flight time...my shields arent infinite...eh what?Balance out with cool down times on the counter measures.

Okay, tell ya what... Let's trade.

I will agree to nerfing the range of the Swarm missile, if you agree to your dropship only being able to go forward or backward... No side to side and no up and down.

I will agree to giving you a warning while I am trying to lock on to you, if you agree that from that point on, any time a DS pilot complains about the warning, the price tag of all DS will quadruple. Each time.

I will agree to nerfing the Swarm missiles already stupid agility if you agree that any time a Forge gun so much as looks at your dropship, the DS will blow up killing everyone within a 5 meter radius of the cockpit.

Given the level of your whining, I think those are all fair and balanced.

Seriously though, think before you spew that garbage. You are able to fit the current missile turrets which are infinite ammo - 0HK weapons... They are free and you can fit two of them. You have 5x the shields of a militia heavy armor and 3x armor. You move faster than the fastest prototype scout (Which costs more than your militia DS), you move in three dimensions. All of those give you real advantages. That same prototype scout cannot single hit kill your militia DS even using his prototype SL, but you can single hit kill him with your militia turret.

Yer a moron.

He only equips the vehicle with his own isk which he purchased

as well and no militia turret is on hit killing anyone that Ive seen.

I cant believe that they would give a generic rpg tool that can attack air, land, and infantry allowing it to lock on all of those.

This one size fits all launcher

You with your missles with infinite flight time lol.Im talking about a warning tone TOOL and thats all im talking about

A dropship pilot will end up spending over a million skill points to have the ability to buy/equip there drop ship

lock on warning yes I think so as far as the tech argument is concerned the dropship/lav/hav is delivered from a flying vehicle that can cloak itself

swarm launchers have infinite flight time. the flight time of the swarm needs to be capped, or lessened, because right now i dont see them ever not hitting me after i see the swarm and fly away from it.

This is endlessly frustrating for dropship pilots. There absolutely needs to be a flight time restriction. Otherwise a player can pop off a launch, and it doesn't matter how fast or how far a ship flies away, the missiles will always land.

No. One, the DS pilot should not be flying in a straight line, nor should the pilot be flying above the level of the buildings, otherwise they are invite swarms. Two, if a DS pilot flies low and uses the terrain to their advantage they can completely negate the Swarm missile salvo I have watched them do it.... Hell, I have done it myself multiple times.. On top of that once afterburners are added to the game, the DS will be able to fly faster than a Swarm missile. Next, your weapons have infinite flight time as well.

No, if anything Swarm missiles need an increase in overall damage of about 50 - 75%.

Hi guys,

Just wanted to let you know we will be making a temp fix for the Swarm Launcher OHK issues people have been complaining about. There will be a very significant nerf to the splash damage and direct damage against infantry targets in the next update.

This is a bit of a brute force fix but it should solve the issues youGÇÖre currently experiencing. WeGÇÖll be looking at a more elegant solution for a future release when we have a bit more time to work on it.

Cheers

CCP Wolfman

Yeah, tanks with insane shields take far too long to destroy, blasted one with all my anti-vechicle grenades and swarms and barely made a scratch.

Disagree with the dropship thing.
Only thing that could be done, is to give dropships anti-missile weapons to use like flares or something similar. This might even balance them a bit against infantry as well as you'd need to decide whether to take extra defense against missiles or firepower.

1) If a DS pilot is flying in a straight line, anything more powerful than light handheld weapons can shoot it down (blaster/missile installations, tanks, other dropships, etc.) As for the level of buildings, they're quite low as it is, and the whole point of being in a dropship is to...you know....fly in the air. Even if you do keep low to the ground, SL's can still get you. So those points are irrelevant.

2) This method works maybe 30% of the time, and you have to be ridiculously skilled with the dropship's already-finicky controls. If the salvo doesn't get you, crashing into the map objects will. By then you've slowed down enough for another SL salvo to hit you.

3) Afterburners don't last forever. SL missile flight times do. As it is the dropships already fly faster than the salvos. The point is that they inevitably catch up.

On top of all this is the fact that the missile mechanics in EVE have flight times as a part of the game. Skills and better modules increase the flight times, but it's not infinite. This is to prevent the exact situation that we're currently dealing with, where as long as you can get a lock, you get a hit.

So you're basically arguing to keep the SL's missile flight times overpowered, and relegate the dropship's utility to that of disposable drop pods. And if you got your way with damage increases without changing the infinite flight time, they'd be flying trash cans that cost several million ISK/unit.

I think you're alone on this.

Why not give Swarm Launchers a minimum distance?

If it impacts with something less than a certain distance, they don't explode, dealing minor impact damage.

That way, it'll still kill infantry, just not as nearly effectively as before...

Why not give Swarm Launchers a minimum distance?

If it impacts with something less than a certain distance, they don't explode, dealing minor impact damage.

That way, it'll still kill infantry, just not as nearly effectively as before...

keep the swarm lancher as a lock-on launcher and introduce a new direct fire launcher with dumb rockets (like a RPG launcher)

This is not my idea someone else suggested it in a topic discussing the Swarm launcher, can't remember his name tho.

Why not add an arming time to the missiles? Should be mandatory on weapons that can hurt you if a missile hits an obstacle obstructing you're view