DUST Search - Swarm Launcher update

Sin3 DeusNomine wrote:

My Ideas on the Swarm launcher. The fix and the nerf. Not going to lie really going to destroy the use of it currently Vehicles are and stationary units are going to gain a huge advantage now.

First idea. The simple fix.
1. Make it lock only
2. Means it is lock only they need to be put in as a secondary weapon.
3. Either you can allow it just everyone is able or it could be a good way to boost a certain line of a logistics command dropsuit user and let them use them. Increase damage output maybe??? and Give fewer rounds.

Second Idea the complex fix to keep it in a primary weapon spot.

1. Only one round in the chamber with 5 back up rounds to reload with.
2. Slower reload times 50% slower
3. 60% faster lock on time
4. Keep damage and OHK abilities on Inf as it is now.
5. Fix how splash damage effects the person who shoots the SL

If you are going to keep the Swarm launcher as a viable primary spot weapon it needs to keep a one hit kill ability in case you get caught up trying to take down a vehicle. If you set up swarm launchers with 1 shot in the chamber and slower reload. Yes people are going to still run around with these griefing people but they are never going to do well. And if they miss that first shot they are going to be screwed.

3rd Idea with how your nerf has been set up.
keep nerf how it is but do a big increase to splash damage radius. so people can not just jump out of range from your shot. When I run against a swarm user it is so easy to avoid there shot by just jumping it is impossible to kill me unless the missles hit me directly. so with nerf you will have to be the luckies guy in the whole game to get kills with the SL unless the blast radius damage is increased.

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[Veteran_Renzo kuken] 0	Posted - 2012.06.13 09:12:00 - [61] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: My scoutsuit invincibles now... Also I like Ponys bronies ftw!
[Veteran_dmxwarrior siCK] 0	Posted - 2012.06.13 18:05:00 - [62] - Quote Sin3 DeusNomine wrote: My Ideas on the Swarm launcher. The fix and the nerf. Not going to lie really going to destroy the use of it currently Vehicles are and stationary units are going to gain a huge advantage now. First idea. The simple fix. 1. Make it lock only 2. Means it is lock only they need to be put in as a secondary weapon. 3. Either you can allow it just everyone is able or it could be a good way to boost a certain line of a logistics command dropsuit user and let them use them. Increase damage output maybe??? and Give fewer rounds. Second Idea the complex fix to keep it in a primary weapon spot. 1. Only one round in the chamber with 5 back up rounds to reload with. 2. Slower reload times 50% slower 3. 60% faster lock on time 4. Keep damage and OHK abilities on Inf as it is now. 5. Fix how splash damage effects the person who shoots the SL If you are going to keep the Swarm launcher as a viable primary spot weapon it needs to keep a one hit kill ability in case you get caught up trying to take down a vehicle. If you set up swarm launchers with 1 shot in the chamber and slower reload. Yes people are going to still run around with these griefing people but they are never going to do well. And if they miss that first shot they are going to be screwed. 3rd Idea with how your nerf has been set up. keep nerf how it is but do a big increase to splash damage radius. so people can not just jump out of range from your shot. When I run against a swarm user it is so easy to avoid there shot by just jumping it is impossible to kill me unless the missles hit me directly. so with nerf you will have to be the luckies guy in the whole game to get kills with the SL unless the blast radius damage is increased. very good points i agree with this
[Veteran_soko99] 0	Posted - 2012.06.13 23:43:00 - [63] - Quote Renzo kuken wrote: Fulkram wrote: I don't agree that the swarms need nerfing i think that having a gun that can do damage to a tank or jeep and be significant from a drop suit is necessary so that those heavily tanked suits or vehicles actually can be blown up. Splash damage should affect everything though ie the user of the swarm launcher if too close to impact point. This would eliminate people shooting around and into a wall making them a target if briefly to anyone getting shot by the swarm. i agree with you 100% the game is set up to where the dust mercs are using extremely dangerous weps even with a suit on...ccp states this in a dev video...so of course you are gonna have mercs running around with a swarm launcher nuking everybody since they know they will respawn...if ya see a swarm launcher then run the other way and find a way to kill it Adapt Or Die (am i the only one that wants this game to be as unforgiving as EVE?) It's not a question of unforgiving.. But the way it is now, (we'll see the changes) it's a weapon that is a jack of all trades, thus not a good weapon for the game that's all about spreading out roles etc. It'd be like having 1 particular ship that can do Long range and short range battles all at once with an area of effect weapon that is equally devastating against titans as well as frigates.
[Veteran_GraphiiiX 117] 0	Posted - 2012.06.14 00:08:00 - [64] - Quote soko99 wrote: Renzo kuken wrote: Fulkram wrote: I don't agree that the swarms need nerfing i think that having a gun that can do damage to a tank or jeep and be significant from a drop suit is necessary so that those heavily tanked suits or vehicles actually can be blown up. Splash damage should affect everything though ie the user of the swarm launcher if too close to impact point. This would eliminate people shooting around and into a wall making them a target if briefly to anyone getting shot by the swarm. i agree with you 100% the game is set up to where the dust mercs are using extremely dangerous weps even with a suit on...ccp states this in a dev video...so of course you are gonna have mercs running around with a swarm launcher nuking everybody since they know they will respawn...if ya see a swarm launcher then run the other way and find a way to kill it Adapt Or Die (am i the only one that wants this game to be as unforgiving as EVE?) It's not a question of unforgiving.. But the way it is now, (we'll see the changes) it's a weapon that is a jack of all trades, thus not a good weapon for the game that's all about spreading out roles etc. It'd be like having 1 particular ship that can do Long range and short range battles all at once with an area of effect weapon that is equally devastating against titans as well as frigates. Agreed. Cheers.
[Veteran_Johnny Guilt] 0	Posted - 2012.06.14 08:02:00 - [65] - Quote The swarms to me should only fire when a lock has been made onto a vehicle or structure,you wont have to nerf a missle just dont like let the missles fly when pulling the trigger without a lock. i hope you read this CCP
[Veteran_Baron Rittmeister] 0	Posted - 2012.06.14 14:35:00 - [66] - Quote Wolfman already gave a perfect explanation of why they're doing it like this and their intentions of making a better more permanent solution later. I think this is a great solution for the time being given the restrictions they have right now. They are trying to make a final product right now, so balancing isn't really tops on their priority list. I do think the sl is ridiculous atm and so this fix is very welcomed and I can't wait for it to get here. I don't think it should be lock on only as sometimes it's useful to fire some dummies at a nearby vehicle before they can spot you, but it shouldn't have any effectiveness point blank as the missiles should have some minimal arming distance.
[Veteran_Dostya Vitja] 0	Posted - 2012.06.14 17:20:00 - [67] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, Just wanted to let you know we will be making a temp fix for the Swarm Launcher OHK issues people have been complaining about. There will be a very significant nerf to the splash damage and direct damage against infantry targets in the next update. This is a bit of a brute force fix but it should solve the issues youGÇÖre currently experiencing. WeGÇÖll be looking at a more elegant solution for a future release when we have a bit more time to work on it. Cheers CCP Wolfman Thank you, thank you!
[Veteran_Duster Boskonovitch] 0	Posted - 2012.06.15 00:12:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: This update is due around the end of June/beginning of July. seeing how SONY handhelds patches and updates , i dont raise my hopes , they always late
[Veteran_gangsta nachos] 0	Posted - 2012.06.16 02:09:00 - [69] - Quote Thank god now give us a grenade indicator
[Veteran_Relyt Fekefer] 0	Posted - 2012.06.16 04:30:00 - [70] - Quote I like the idea of having it lock only but able to lock infantry but with significantly longer lock times (much like locking in eve)

[Veteran_Mensche Meysim] 0	Posted - 2012.06.16 17:58:00 - [71] - Quote One thing that you can try to do for swarm launchers is what they do in real life: Put 'safeties' on it. Many missile systems have a failsafe that they only activate the warhead after the projectile's traveled a certain distance. That way you can't hurt the launcher and in Dust you won't get rocket jumpers.
[Veteran_Fivetimes Infinity] 0	Posted - 2012.06.17 02:22:00 - [72] - Quote Gotta chime in to say "good job". Swarm launcher is so obviously out of line that it would have been annoying to go through another couple weeks of everyone one-shotting each other with them.
[Veteran_Shadow SickNoCure] 0	Posted - 2012.06.17 07:24:00 - [73] - Quote i agree i mean it should have some damage to ground units if it can destroy a building tank or a jeep it should kill a ground unit no problem
[Veteran_Natsu Pendragon] 0	Posted - 2012.06.17 18:30:00 - [74] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, Just wanted to let you know we will be making a temp fix for the Swarm Launcher OHK issues people have been complaining about. There will be a very significant nerf to the splash damage and direct damage against infantry targets in the next update. This is a bit of a brute force fix but it should solve the issues youGÇÖre currently experiencing. WeGÇÖll be looking at a more elegant solution for a future release when we have a bit more time to work on it. Cheers CCP Wolfman Can you please fix the damage done to users as well when fired point blank? That's one my main issues I have with Swarm Launchers I get in close to them so they will kill themselves if they try and use it only to see half there shield go away meanwhile it OHK me. Kind of ridiculous they can fire it straight down at there feet and kill opposing players yet take minimal damaged compared to what was done to the enemy.
[Veteran_Rex Manhunter] 0	Posted - 2012.06.17 20:51:00 - [75] - Quote Renzo kuken wrote: bronies ftw! filth
[Veteran_Average Joe81] 0	Posted - 2012.06.18 19:31:00 - [76] - Quote i say just weaken it's damage vs. infantry and/or remove malitia version
[Veteran_Asno Masamang] 0	Posted - 2012.06.18 20:35:00 - [77] - Quote So multiple people have whined 'everyone is using swarm launchers' or 'the enemies are spamming swarms', so I decided to observe this phenomena.... Guess what? I found a grand total of 5 people in one game, 3 in another... And I was one of the people in both matches. On Saturday, I decided to watch the kill notices and found that HMGs accounted for the majority kills followed by ARs, a Sagaris blaster, and finally swarm launchers. Actually in my last battle last night, I saw three people running around with Forge guns... OH NO!!!! Forge Guns are the new n00b tube. No, just three people decided to try them out.
[Veteran_Hunter Cazaderon] 0	Posted - 2012.06.19 11:14:00 - [78] - Quote I dont think making the swarmlauncher Lock Only is a good option. A simple decrease of its damage against infantery AND a forced slow-motion when having it equipped seems way enough.
[Veteran_Gene Dravon] 0	Posted - 2012.06.20 21:37:00 - [79] - Quote First of all, making it so its lock on only is a terrible idea. It is a very viable tactic to rush a tank and semi-close range and dummy fire all 4 salvos in quick succession to do massive damage. Sure the anti-infantry issue needs to be addressed but making it lock on only would gimp the anti-vehicle application of the swarm launcher, which is completely counterproductive. Although I personally I don't like act of doing do, but using the swarm launcher as a means to carpet bomb is a viable way to deal with large groups of enemies at once. With that said I offer up a more elegant solution to the swarm launcher problem. Offer 2 Types of Swarm Launchers, one type for anti vehicle, one for anti infantry Anti-Vehicle Type Dummy Fire & Lock On Fire Same Direct Damage as current build Significantly Reduced Splash Damage from Current Build (Warheads are shaped charges and should do next to no splash damage) This type encourages Locking since you need direct hits to do any decent damage. However does not discourage dummy firing at close range against large targets such as HAVs because most of the warheads will directly connect with the tank as long as you're close enough. The type discourages use against infantry, because unless you're lucky enough to actually hit them in the chest with the actual warhead, the damage done from splash damage will be so minimal it wont be worth it. Anti-Infantry Type Dummy Fire Only (Possibly lock on as well) Significantly Reduced Direct Damage from current build Reduced Splash Damage from current build but not as much of a reduction as AV Swarm Type This encourages anti-infantry use because the splash damage is the majority of the damage done. However it is still reduces from current build as to avoid 1-hit kills against infantry. This would primarily be used to "soften up" large groups of troops so they're more easily taken out by more direct fire. This type would discourage anti-vehicle use because the overall damage is significantly reduced compared to the AV-Type Swarm which is designed for more significant direct damage against larger targets that can be locked onto. Also I have to disagree with your choice to decrease lock on time. I feel the lock on time is fine as is, and as a dropship pilot I seriously worry about the ramifications of people being able to fire more locked on salvos at me as I'm trying to retreat. If you do continue with your choice to decrease lock on time, please give us a Sensor Dampener modules for vehicles that we can use increase lock on time from enemy swarm launchers. I dont mind giving people an advantage to shoot me down, but allow me to counter it with modules if I want.
[Veteran_Johnny Guilt] 0	Posted - 2012.06.21 09:12:00 - [80] - Quote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_launcher http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-fired_missile nothing about killing lone infantry, lock on only please

[Veteran_Gene Dravon] 0	Posted - 2012.06.21 09:26:00 - [81] - Quote Johnny Guilt wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_launcher http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-fired_missile nothing about killing lone infantry, lock on only please Again, lock on only is a terrible idea. Read above post for explanation.
[Veteran_Deskalkulos Ildigan] 0	Posted - 2012.06.22 10:27:00 - [82] - Quote Cant really say that i would be glad with lock on only. Lock on is important if the vehicle is far away, but having to lock on the enemy tank while standing 2 metres away from it is downright . . . lets say suboptimal. . . this would be equal to a major buff for the tanks and every other vehicle. I never knew that OHK with Swarm launcher was such a huge Problem, mainly because you have to actually pinpoint the enemy. If you are off by only a few centimeters you are going to get your ass handed to you. The anti infantry capabilities are practically non existent if you are standing ten metres away from the enemy, due to the horizontal spread of missiles. Personally i find, that Swarm launchers are the only possibility to stop a heavy, who seems to be like a one man tank (which would explain why he is called "heavy"), it takes around two bullseye shots from two to three metres away to stop a heavy with the swarm missile launcher, which i think is more than enough time for the heavy to fire his heavy machine gun and change you into swiss cheese. @ Natsu: i can assure you, that point blank range is usually more than enough to kill an assault type swarm launcher bearing enemy. ususally because i have killed myself multiple times this way. its just as mentioned above. if i am off by a few centimetres the splash damage wont hurt me or you. So yeah the only weapon swarm launchers are making redundant are shotguns, as both are short ranged weapons (couldnt kill even one person using shotgun at point blank range). . . Although i have to admit, that indoor fights might increase the effectiveness of the swarm launcher, as the enemies are more likely to be grouped together and the possibility to hit a wall behind them increase the chance that they are in the splash zone. . . gangsta nachos wrote: Thank god now give us a grenade indicator Please dont do this. . . Next time you want a OHK Knife, unlimited Sprint and Killstreak Bonusses like tactical nuclear warhead?
[Veteran_Dao Ferret] 0	Posted - 2012.06.22 12:59:00 - [83] - Quote Markus wrote: You want to fix swarm launchers make it a heavy weapon..... There boom fixed now only heavy slow moving armor can use them not fast agile scouts running jumping firing them blindly. Also makes it to where the lone ranger cant setup his own nano hive and shoot off rockets till his eyes bleed. How have you not gotten more likes? I was talking in the IRC room yesterday and came up with the same solution. Making the Swarmer a Heavy weapon means that: by default they won't be able to deploy their own nano hives launchers would have less mobility That should go a long way toward making them less effective against infantry. My only concern would be how it would diminish their effectiveness against Tanks/DropShips (mostly Tanks). How significantly would the loss of mobility/turning affect the ability for a Swarm wielder to dodge into cover while taking out a Tank (depending on distance of course)?
[Veteran_Gene Dravon] 0	Posted - 2012.06.22 19:48:00 - [84] - Quote Making the swarm a heavy only weapon would basically gimp all anti-vehicle abilities for 75%-ish of every player in the game. If you want to make the swarm launcher give a lower movement speed while you have it out....sure, I wont be happy about it, but its a hell of a lot better than being forced to play Heavy if I want to blow up anything. Once again so many of these suggestions reduce the ability you make it heavy only, then you'll just have people running around in heavy suits shooting your feet, it really wont solve the problem at all. So many of these suggestions really don't truly fix the problem, they're just crude, unimaginative ideas that really only serve to nerf the swarm launcher usage as a whole, instead of dealing with the anti-infantry problem specifically. If you make the weapon less accessible, or less effective against vehicles, then it's completely pointless.
[Veteran_Johnny Guilt] 0	Posted - 2012.06.23 00:12:00 - [85] - Quote The rocket launchers has two phases, the ridicule prompt and the actually locking process itself. Why not make the rocket launcher not able to fire unless the ridicule is up(which can only pop up if you ADS at a destructible structure or a vehicle is in front of it , as long as the vehicle or structure is infront of you. youll be able to fire;that way you can still dummy fire point blank at a tanks or structures at close to mid range and not be able to kill lone infantry.(the locking process if still work as normal) This will stop players from just rolling with the rocket launcers to kill lone soilders or the occaional panicing launcher user who points it at his feet to get suicide kills.
[Veteran_Corvus Ravensong] 0	Posted - 2012.06.24 12:09:00 - [86] - Quote A damage increase rather than decrease would be preferable - especially if combined with a tighter spread AND a reduced blast radius. I'm all for making both of my 2 favorite weapons (swarm launcher and forge gun) both less effective against infantry, but if you are going to reduce infantry damage, please increase vehicle & structure damage by a similar amount to compensate. Devs, mebbe something similar to the explosion radius vs target signature radius check that missiles in Eve already use?
[Veteran_Devboi] 0	Posted - 2012.06.24 12:28:00 - [87] - Quote Why don't you just make things like; Heavy Drop Suits - MiniGuns - Swarm Launchers More Expensive! This would trend more with real life as a "launcher" would be stupidly OP but it costs a lot of money A Heavy Drop Suit SHOULD have lots more armor but thats cos u PAID for it. This way I would be less annoyed when ; "I have shot a heavy with an entire clip of a prototype gun but because I didnt hit them in the head enough they kill me while Im reloading" I will be able to think "well thats what they paid for"
[Veteran_VicBoss] 0	Posted - 2012.06.24 20:31:00 - [88] - Quote Devboi wrote: Why don't you just make things like; Heavy Drop Suits - MiniGuns - Swarm Launchers More Expensive! This would trend more with real life as a "launcher" would be stupidly OP but it costs a lot of money A Heavy Drop Suit SHOULD have lots more armor but thats cos u PAID for it. This way I would be less annoyed when ; "I have shot a heavy with an entire clip of a prototype gun but because I didnt hit them in the head enough they kill me while Im reloading" I will be able to think "well thats what they paid for" first problem "would trend more with REAL LIFE." If real life thing was going on you wouldn't be able to move in a suit that heavy or hold a mini gun on top of that. real life is out of the question. Also, I can't speak for you but if im killed by an OP gun over and over again I couldn't care less how much it costs.
[Veteran_Asno Masamang] 0	Posted - 2012.06.25 14:43:00 - [89] - Quote Devboi wrote: This would trend more with real life as a "launcher" would be stupidly OP but it costs a lot of money A Heavy Drop Suit SHOULD have lots more armor but thats cos u PAID for it. Ummm, they already are more expensive in game... And currently RL RPG's, both anti vehicle and anti-infantry versions, are dirt cheap... The rounds are a bit pricey (still cheap), but the launcher is ridiculously inexpensive. I am not sure about other countries, but the only reason that the US military pays so much for RPG's is because of MILSPEC. When I was in the miliary MILSPEC'd equipment was usually around 35x in cost. No, there is nothing wrong with Swarm Launchers, just a bunch of whiners who refuse to adapt and overcome. The same people who are going to try to nerf snipers next, and then nerf SMGs and HMGs, etc.
[Veteran_Nick Phantom] 0	Posted - 2012.06.26 01:17:00 - [90] - Quote I would like it with a random element added. No reduction to damage but if fired without a lock the rockets go haywire and fly off in every direction. (some going straight down hitting the ground in front of the user killing them instantly) For now great fix though Thanks. For those that are complaining about not being able to kill heavies with it need to learn to work as a team. Also heavies are getting nerfed down to what they should be. Sadly so are our skills . I agree with how the swarm launchers are about to be set up except the nerf to damage against infantry but thats understandable for now. The reduced spread to the rockets is going to be great. NOT the sight just the rockets so instead of worrying about that truck that is to your right you can fire it and still be close to some cover. Currently you have to go so far out that the tank or whatever your firing at kills you before you get to an acceptable open area to shoot from. Sorry Mr. Tanks a lot you now have the swarm launchers to worry about instead us poor assault infantry being blown to smithereens by them. Oh the pleasure I would get from seeing some swarm launcher operator getting blown sky high from their own rocket just for trying to use it without a lock.



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