DUST Search - Apex just became worth the pricetag

Breakin Stuff wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

Ripley Riley wrote:

That isn't what power creep is at all...

Power creep is the unbalancing of a game from adding new content.

CCP is fixing the APEX dropsuits so they don't allow players to wield suits of above average power at a below average pricetag. That's a fair goal. They aren't taking away our ability to customize the APEX dropsuits, you must realize that much.

We are actually dealing with issues, because we decided to let things that weren't planned to be modified, to be modified to improve UX.

ehhhhh. This won't affect all of the APEX equally. Fitting skillwskills will allow a few module upgrades OR a weapon upgrade. In the case of the opus if you swap out some of the fottings for MLT bpos the only change you can do to the main weapon is swapping to a standard asscram.

I would fiddle wuth hardlocking PG/CPU mods first. also once the SKINS go online you can actually phase out the BPO sales for other suits and make apex the gold standard.

Convert The other bpos over to the apex style and stop selling them and apex and some legacy dropsuits become the standard for BPOs.

Upgrade the MLT to ADV equivalent with the apex treatment and run from there.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Clone D Solo Zen 1765	Posted - 2015.05.08 12:45:00 - [1] - Quote It's sweet to change up your Apex now.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9930	Posted - 2015.05.08 12:54:00 - [2] - Quote It is a positive change. I wish CCP would have disabled CPU and PG skills' effects on APEX suits, but whatever. We should see more people jumping into FW to earn APEX suits now. Especially since we can put SKINs over the nasty APEX paint jobs. Also... precursor to tiericide? @Ripley_Riley "Ripley > Soraya" - Arkena Wyrnspire

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 22118	Posted - 2015.05.08 12:57:00 - [3] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: It is a positive change. I wish CCP would have disabled CPU and PG skills' effects on APEX suits, but whatever. We should see more people jumping into FW to earn APEX suits now. Especially since we can put SKINs over the nasty APEX paint jobs. Also... precursor to tiericide? Fitting skills may be disabled, it is entirely possible, as part of the powerbalancing of the suit. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9930	Posted - 2015.05.08 12:58:00 - [4] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Fitting skills may be disabled, it is entirely possible, as part of the powerbalancing of the suit. Interesting. Which would you rather do: disable fitting skills or lock modules by metalevel? @Ripley_Riley "Ripley > Soraya" - Arkena Wyrnspire

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 22121	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:01:00 - [5] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fitting skills may be disabled, it is entirely possible, as part of the powerbalancing of the suit. Interesting. Which would you rather do: disable fitting skills or lock modules by metalevel? I don't like the unpredictability of the skills, so would like to remove those and fix each APEX suit to a nice, balanced std+ powerlevel, having mandatory slots, basically just allows some pg/cpu upgrade shenanigans that may get you an adv weapon at the cost of two slots. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9931	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:04:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I don't like the unpredictability of the skills, so would like to remove those and fix each APEX suit to a nice, balanced std+ powerlevel, having mandatory slots, basically just allows some pg/cpu upgrade shenanigans that may get you an adv weapon at the cost of two slots. Good to hear. Some of the APEX fittings I was able to build last night were far beyond "std+". It might be good to set a metalevel cap on the entire dropsuit. If you want to fit that advanced weapon then you can, but your metalevel hits the cap and the rest of your gear is stuck at standard. @Ripley_Riley "Ripley > Soraya" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Clone D Solo Zen 1765	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:07:00 - [7] - Quote So, now begins the Apex nerf road. I had just become interested in playing again this morning. I guess that wasn't meant to last. See ya guys in a couple of weeks.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9934	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:09:00 - [8] - Quote Clone D wrote: So, now begins the Apex nerf road. How is this a nerf though? It is balancing around the original design intent, isn't it? I think CCP always intended the APEX dropsuits to be just barely above standard in ability. @Ripley_Riley "Ripley > Soraya" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 16446	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:10:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fitting skills may be disabled, it is entirely possible, as part of the powerbalancing of the suit. Interesting. Which would you rather do: disable fitting skills or lock modules by metalevel? I don't like the unpredictability of the skills, so would like to remove those and fix each APEX suit to a nice, balanced std+ powerlevel, having mandatory slots, basically just allows some pg/cpu upgrade shenanigans that may get you an adv weapon at the cost of two slots. I've seen some crazy good APEX builds from my squad mates yesterday. Glad you're taking a look at that. "Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - *Cat wisdom*
Spaceman-Rob Third Degree Burns. 802	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:19:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: It is a positive change. I wish CCP would have disabled CPU and PG skills' effects on APEX suits, but whatever. We should see more people jumping into FW to earn APEX suits now. Especially since we can put SKINs over the nasty APEX paint jobs. Also... precursor to tiericide? Fitting skills may be disabled, it is entirely possible, as part of the powerbalancing of the suit. Don't you dare.

Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1588	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:23:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: It is a positive change. I wish CCP would have disabled CPU and PG skills' effects on APEX suits, but whatever. We should see more people jumping into FW to earn APEX suits now. Especially since we can put SKINs over the nasty APEX paint jobs. Also... precursor to tiericide? Fitting skills may be disabled, it is entirely possible, as part of the powerbalancing of the suit. As long as I can swap the ACR for a standard MD on my Republic Shaman, that is fine with me. Fitting constraints concern me only because the MD takes waaay more CPU and PG than a CR. I want a support weapon on my support suit dammit!!! Also, not only are APEX's worth the price OP, their value on the open market just doubled. IF YOU CAN READ THIS YOU DON'T NEED GLASSES
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9937	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:24:00 - [12] - Quote Spaceman-Rob wrote: Don't you dare. CCP Rattati wrote: I don't like the unpredictability of the skills, so would like to remove those and fix each APEX suit to a nice, balanced std+ powerlevel, having mandatory slots, basically just allows some pg/cpu upgrade shenanigans that may get you an adv weapon at the cost of two slots. Think that ship has sailed... @Ripley_Riley "Ripley > Soraya" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Clone D Solo Zen 1770	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:29:00 - [13] - Quote There is a concept called power creep. It's based around the idea that you leave existing game objects untouched and you gracefully and gradually add in more powerful objects. This creates a sense of stability in the player base, object performance reliability, and a sense of confidence on an individual level. This constant rebalancing of the game is abrupt, hurts players' sense of continuity, and usually only succeeds in producing a different OP thing or FOTM. Make something, leave it that way. If you need something more powerful, make that. This will give the players a sense of A GROWING GAME with CONTENT DEVELOPMENT. Your current scheme of rebalancing every month just makes us think that you, CCP, don't know what you're doing, and that we are the biggest group of play testers that ever got suckered into being promised a viable game one day.
Russel Mendoza 7th air cav 82	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:31:00 - [14] - Quote this is enough to make the apex good, not great but good, please dont do anything else. because i have a feeling your gonna muck it up again. please for the love of everything holy, leave the apex as it is now. i swear to God, anymore disappointment, and i will biomass all 3 character of mine. or maybe ill just be p i s s e d off. will see. I'm the biggest Dustard in the universe!!! Summoning technique "Gorgon no jutsu" Vehicle request accepted.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9938	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:34:00 - [15] - Quote Clone D wrote: There is a concept called power creep. It's based around the idea that you leave existing game objects untouched and you gracefully and gradually add in more powerful objects. This creates a sense of stability in the player base, object performance reliability, and a sense of confidence on an individual level. That isn't what power creep is at all... Power creep is the unbalancing of a game from adding new content. Extra Credit did an entire episode on it. CCP is fixing the APEX dropsuits so they don't allow players to wield suits of above average power at a below average pricetag. That's a fair goal. They aren't taking away our ability to customize the APEX dropsuits, you must realize that much. @Ripley_Riley "Ripley > Soraya" - Arkena Wyrnspire

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 22127	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:37:00 - [16] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: That isn't what power creep is at all... Power creep is the unbalancing of a game from adding new content. CCP is fixing the APEX dropsuits so they don't allow players to wield suits of above average power at a below average pricetag. That's a fair goal. They aren't taking away our ability to customize the APEX dropsuits, you must realize that much. We are actually dealing with issues, because we decided to let things that weren't planned to be modified, to be modified to improve UX. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Clone D Solo Zen 1770	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:37:00 - [17] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: That isn't what power creep is at all... Power creep is the unbalancing of a game from adding new content. CCP is fixing the APEX dropsuits so they don't allow players to wield suits of above average power at a below average pricetag. That's a fair goal. They aren't taking away our ability to customize the APEX dropsuits, you must realize that much. Would you rather deal with not knowing what your gear is going to do next month, or having reliable performance, until original gear gradually fades into the background as NEW COOLER CONTENT becomes available bro? Power creep is all about getting people to buy the latest greatest thing because it is slightly better. It's how you keep proceeds coming in.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9938	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:40:00 - [18] - Quote Clone D wrote: Would you rather deal with not knowing what your gear is going to do next month, or having reliable performance, until original gear gradually fades into the background as NEW COOLER CONTENT becomes available bro? I want balance. I do not want APEX v2, APEX v3, APEX v4 and so on forever. Balancing what we have, done in intervals is preferred to the WoW Loot Treadmill. Clone D wrote: Power creep is all about getting people to buy the latest greatest thing because it is slightly better. It's how you keep proceeds coming in. Making a good game is how you keep profits up. Creating a new set of guns with +2 damage and -0.1s reload speeds every 3 months is not cool and not where anyone wants to see Dust 514 go. @Ripley_Riley "Ripley > Soraya" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Clone D Solo Zen 1770	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:43:00 - [19] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: ... not where anyone wants to see Dust 514 go. Overstatement. I would rather see some new content and life. I am a good player, and I get so tired of not knowing how my gear or fittings are going to function a month from now. I am exhausted from the rebalances and changes to game mechanics. That is what play testing is for. I am tired of being a play tester. I WANT TO BE AN END USER.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8453	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:44:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: That isn't what power creep is at all... Power creep is the unbalancing of a game from adding new content. CCP is fixing the APEX dropsuits so they don't allow players to wield suits of above average power at a below average pricetag. That's a fair goal. They aren't taking away our ability to customize the APEX dropsuits, you must realize that much. We are actually dealing with issues, because we decided to let things that weren't planned to be modified, to be modified to improve UX. ehhhhh. This won't affect all of the APEX equally. Fitting skillwskills will allow a few module upgrades OR a weapon upgrade. In the case of the opus if you swap out some of the fottings for MLT bpos the only change you can do to the main weapon is swapping to a standard asscram. I would fiddle wuth hardlocking PG/CPU mods first. also once the SKINS go online you can actually phase out the BPO sales for other suits and make apex the gold standard. Convert The other bpos over to the apex style and stop selling them and apex and some legacy dropsuits become the standard for BPOs. Upgrade the MLT to ADV equivalent with the apex treatment and run from there. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9945	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:55:00 - [21] - Quote Clone D wrote: Overstatement. I would rather see some new content and life. A new light weapon tier with slightly better stats is not new content, homie. Do you want truly new weapons like the missing heavy weapons? Well that's something I can understand. Of course you know that after any completely new gear is added it will then have to be balanced. Clone D wrote: I am a good player, and I get so tired of not knowing how my gear or fittings are going to function a month from now. I am exhausted from the rebalances and changes to game mechanics. That is what play testing is for. I am tired of being a play tester. I WANT TO BE AN END USER. You are slowly shifting into a rant here, so I'll just say this: online games that aren't released in yearly installments (a la Modern Warfare, Battlefield, etc.) typically receive balancing passes at regular intervals. Learn to adapt. Skill into a variety of weapons and dropsuits so you are more resistant to nerf hammers. A good example: I know a ScR nerf is coming soon so I'm skilling into the rail rifle. If the ScR takes it to the chin I will have options. @Ripley_Riley "Ripley > Soraya" - Arkena Wyrnspire
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1029	Posted - 2015.05.08 14:14:00 - [22] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: That isn't what power creep is at all... Power creep is the unbalancing of a game from adding new content. CCP is fixing the APEX dropsuits so they don't allow players to wield suits of above average power at a below average pricetag. That's a fair goal. They aren't taking away our ability to customize the APEX dropsuits, you must realize that much. We are actually dealing with issues, because we decided to let things that weren't planned to be modified, to be modified to improve UX. ehhhhh. This won't affect all of the APEX equally. Fitting skillwskills will allow a few module upgrades OR a weapon upgrade. In the case of the opus if you swap out some of the fottings for MLT bpos the only change you can do to the main weapon is swapping to a standard asscram. I would fiddle wuth hardlocking PG/CPU mods first. also once the SKINS go online you can actually phase out the BPO sales for other suits and make apex the gold standard. Convert The other bpos over to the apex style and stop selling them and apex and some legacy dropsuits become the standard for BPOs. Upgrade the MLT to ADV equivalent with the apex treatment and run from there. or just tiercide the dropsuits. delete the std and proto suits and add fitting skills for everything to make up for having less pg and cpu.
Genral69 death Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 232	Posted - 2015.05.08 14:16:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fitting skills may be disabled, it is entirely possible, as part of the powerbalancing of the suit. Interesting. Which would you rather do: disable fitting skills or lock modules by metalevel? I don't like the unpredictability of the skills, so would like to remove those and fix each APEX suit to a nice, balanced std+ powerlevel, having mandatory slots, basically just allows some pg/cpu upgrade shenanigans that may get you an adv weapon at the cost of two slots. Please remember if you do change the pg and CPU fitting, that there are more slots to fill. So we might need slightly more fitting than std suits General limited: warming failure to pay, may lead to death,massive amount of pain or even lose of family. Since 1995

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 22136	Posted - 2015.05.08 14:18:00 - [24] - Quote Genral69 death wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fitting skills may be disabled, it is entirely possible, as part of the powerbalancing of the suit. Interesting. Which would you rather do: disable fitting skills or lock modules by metalevel? I don't like the unpredictability of the skills, so would like to remove those and fix each APEX suit to a nice, balanced std+ powerlevel, having mandatory slots, basically just allows some pg/cpu upgrade shenanigans that may get you an adv weapon at the cost of two slots. Please remember if you do change the pg and CPU fitting, that there are more slots to fill. So we might need slightly more fitting than std suits absolutely! "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 5139	Posted - 2015.05.08 14:46:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: It is a positive change. I wish CCP would have disabled CPU and PG skills' effects on APEX suits, but whatever. We should see more people jumping into FW to earn APEX suits now. Especially since we can put SKINs over the nasty APEX paint jobs. Also... precursor to tiericide? Fitting skills may be disabled, it is entirely possible, as part of the powerbalancing of the suit. For me it becomes a question of why? It seems better to let the APEX suit grow with the owner. As they change out the modules and increase the capability with their skills the suit becomes less and less free, which helps to balance their bpo nature. There is still incentive to run a proto suit for that max CPU and PG, but, as it should be, the benefit of doing so isn't leaps and bounds. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8455	Posted - 2015.05.08 15:13:00 - [26] - Quote I would advocate killing the lower tiers, making individual dropsuits cost 5k and increase the ISK cost of weapons and modules at ADV 10% higher and PRO 20-30% higher to compensate for the ISK cost loss on the suits themselves. That way STD/MLT would be cheap/free and the higher tiers retain their equivalent costs. Since ISK expenditures are a factor. I use the word "just" loosely as I'm envisioning a database chore everyone is desperately yelling "not it!" Until one of them successfully roshambo's all comers (south park rules) and gets to proclaim who the poor bastard stuck with the job shall be. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
1913 DfLo ScReWeD uP InC Smart Deploy 362	Posted - 2015.05.08 15:17:00 - [27] - Quote Can't wait to mess with my Apex suits later *I'm ScReWeD uP* New To Dust? Sign Up
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 5141	Posted - 2015.05.08 15:23:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fitting skills may be disabled, it is entirely possible, as part of the powerbalancing of the suit. Interesting. Which would you rather do: disable fitting skills or lock modules by metalevel? I don't like the unpredictability of the skills, so would like to remove those and fix each APEX suit to a nice, balanced std+ powerlevel, having mandatory slots, basically just allows some pg/cpu upgrade shenanigans that may get you an adv weapon at the cost of two slots. Why not instead just flatten the slots of all the suits? That would squarely put the APEX between standard and advanced. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Al the destroyer 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 335	Posted - 2015.05.08 15:24:00 - [29] - Quote I've got to say I don't think the apex suits are op. Just like other suits the more you add the more the isk cost. I would never run my apexs in lieu of my proto. So I have mine made cheap able to run equip and weapons I want. Its great!!
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11592	Posted - 2015.05.08 16:00:00 - [30] - Quote Al the destroyer wrote: I've got to say I don't think the apex suits are op. Just like other suits the more you add the more the isk cost. I would never run my apexs in lieu of my proto. So I have mine made cheap able to run equip and weapons I want. Its great!! I agree. To think that someone would even fit a module that is consumable on an APEX is mind boggling to me because doing so defeats the whole purpose of the APEX loadout being non-consumable at the cost of a one-time payment of either AUR or LP/ISK. There is something else here that people are forgetting or have not noticed up until now. Because we are now able to make fitting changes to the APEX loadouts, the militia BPOs of the old days have now been given a new purpose. Since they are MLT or STD level, they fit nicely into the APEX suits without eating up too much of the fitting requirements while still giving the user the flexibility he/she is looking for while also still maintaining the non-consumable nature of the APEX loadout. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy



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