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[VIDEO] New Player Experience ends in Rage Quit

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DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1028	Posted - 2015.05.08 11:59:00 - [1] - Quote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj3qK4JY-7I Things to be improved: 1. Hot tips that pop up indicating that you should take cover. (should probably keep the message up until 50% hp is recovered. 2. Menu driven commands for support. This guy on a few occasions wanted a ride, or to offer a ride to his team mates. No one understood what he was doing. (perhaps WP's could be given to fulfilling a request, such as providing ammo, healing, scans, or transportation for those requesting it) 3. Free LAVs that are already spawned in at home spawn. This little guys wants a car, and does not know how to summon one. 4. it's possible that if shared tacnet was still available, this guy might have not died as much lol 5. maybe add a minimum age requirement and aptitude test upon character creation, so that guys like this kid are never allowed to even play. (i sure dont want him on my team lmao) GOOD JOB CCP on such a wonderful New Player Experience
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4608	Posted - 2015.05.08 12:23:00 - [2] - Quote Little guys should play on the outside. I would like a better NPE, but dust is not a game for kids. Shaman's Shack - A place to trade Training to be a packed RE master launcher
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1064	Posted - 2015.05.08 12:41:00 - [3] - Quote Well, watched that and had to upvote him , because really, who down votes a lttle kid? that being said, that little kid wasnt' being picked on, or stomped, or anythingm just played like any little kid would do. And no amount of tutorials would have helped him. He had no problem 'borrowing' free LAVs either. Just too young to get into online shooters, thats all. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9929	Posted - 2015.05.08 12:47:00 - [4] - Quote He's a younger gamer. Things aren't as intuitive if you haven't been playing FPS games for over a decade. Not his fault, but that is probably a lot of the reason he floundered and flailed so much. DUST 514 needs a proper tutorial. Pre-academy, new players should be put into a kind of clone "boot camp" simulator. You are given tasks to learn things like weapon damage profiles, summoning vehicles, hacking objectives/installations, deploying equipment, etc. That would have helped this fellow out quite a bit. @Ripley_Riley "Ripley > Soraya" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Bri Bub Eternal Beings 205	Posted - 2015.05.08 12:51:00 - [5] - Quote The dog barking as the video ended made me lol... Be just and if you can't be just be arbitrary.
CHET CHEWS PIanet Express Smart Deploy 84	Posted - 2015.05.08 12:57:00 - [6] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj3qK4JY-7I Things to be improved: 1. Hot tips that pop up indicating that you should take cover. (should probably keep the message up until 50% hp is recovered. 2. Menu driven commands for support. This guy on a few occasions wanted a ride, or to offer a ride to his team mates. No one understood what he was doing. (perhaps WP's could be given to fulfilling a request, such as providing ammo, healing, scans, or transportation for those requesting it) 3. Free LAVs that are already spawned in at home spawn. This little guys wants a car, and does not know how to summon one. 4. it's possible that if shared tacnet was still available, this guy might have not died as much lol 5. maybe add a minimum age requirement and aptitude test upon character creation, so that guys like this kid are never allowed to even play. (i sure dont want him on my team lmao) GOOD JOB CCP on such a wonderful New Player Experience Bruh that kid is like 8 and its probably his first fps game EVER! "FU CHET CHEWS"- Sumar load 2014-2015
Starlight Burner Arrary of Clusters 239	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:03:00 - [7] - Quote Watching all those noobs walking around, lol so adorable. Wish I had that MU level. Anyways, there should be some kind of tutorial. Just throwing them out there isn't very good. EVE Online doesn't just throw you out there.. Well, you don't have to do the tutorial missions but they're always there. CEO of Arrary of Clusters, a close relations corporation Caldari Factional Warfare, enlist today! Thank you for DUST
castba Rogue Instincts New Eden's Heros 873	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:11:00 - [8] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: 5. maybe add a minimum age requirement and aptitude test upon character creation, so that guys like this kid are never allowed to even play. (i sure dont want him on my team lmao) GOOD JOB CCP on such a wonderful New Player Experience Log in to Dust and tell me what the age rating states. Pretty sure it is on the parents to monitor the games their kids play and the age rating. Aptitude test can be circumvented by a sick Google search anyway. "When everything is OP, nothing is" - CCP Ratatti
Meisterjager Jagermeister 941	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:11:00 - [9] - Quote LOL! "Gotta get your daily exercise!" "Hey, this is my spot!" melees guy who was there first AKA - StarVenger- Horizons' Edge
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3011	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:24:00 - [10] - Quote This game is really not intended for children, they are not its target audience. But this little guy displays prettymuch all the bad behaviour available to blues. 1) he derps around in the redline and never attempts to play the objective 2) MUST BE IN THE VEHICLE BECAUSE VEHICLE 3) Zero awareness of what's going on around him 4) In his second match he gets murdered by someone in a straight fight and starts shouting "BUT I HAD THE BETTER GUN" (Something he couldn't possibly know) 5) He randomly latches on to other blues while spouting "THATS MY SPOT, YOU LEAVE" it's not really here nor there, but this kid is more of a hinderance to his team than a help. 6) He doesn't understand the stamina system and gets very upset that he cant sprint everywhere all the time 7) The amount of time he spends standing still I'm surprised he didn't die 17 times to snipers. 8) Never stops to deal with hostile turrets then gets mad when they wreck him. Yes there's insights that can be taken away from this video, but this kid should be playing minecraft, not dust. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

Meisterjager Jagermeister 942	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:37:00 - [11] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: ......, but this kid should be playing minecraft, not dust. Yes, he did all those things, but he's a kid, probably 10 years old, what more did you expect? I think he had good instincts. He knew how to run and melee, figured out how to switch weapons, he had no problem asserting himself over other players, he didn't hide in the redline, he LOVED jumping out the MCC, he was ready and willing to get into action. I believe had he someone knowledgeable in DUST lore there to coach him (I nominate you Mina) he would have had a much better go of it. AKA - StarVenger- Horizons' Edge
Vell0cet OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3091	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:48:00 - [12] - Quote One thing I see lots of new players get hung-up on is calling in vehicles. There should be a tooltip that pops up telling them to press the -> on their d-pad to call in vehicles. This mechanism is different from other similar games in the industry (where they just spawn on the map) and people don't realize they can call in their own vehicles. I'd also like to see a MIL dropship and a MIL HAV added to new players inventories (1 copy of each, not a BPO starter fit), just so they can experience that gameplay right away. Best PvE idea ever!
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1028	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:52:00 - [13] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: This game is really not intended for children, they are not its target audience. But this little guy displays prettymuch all the bad behaviour available to blues. 1) he derps around in the redline and never attempts to play the objective 2) MUST BE IN THE VEHICLE BECAUSE VEHICLE 3) Zero awareness of what's going on around him 4) In his second match he gets murdered by someone in a straight fight and starts shouting "BUT I HAD THE BETTER GUN" (Something he couldn't possibly know) 5) He randomly latches on to other blues while spouting "THATS MY SPOT, YOU LEAVE" it's not really here nor there, but this kid is more of a hinderance to his team than a help. 6) He doesn't understand the stamina system and gets very upset that he cant sprint everywhere all the time 7) The amount of time he spends standing still I'm surprised he didn't die 17 times to snipers. 8) Never stops to deal with hostile turrets then gets mad when they wreck him. Yes there's insights that can be taken away from this video, but this kid should be playing minecraft, not dust. this kid is the reason we need team deploy lmao. remember when we would get into matches and half our team was people like this little kid? in a competitive game, why would you force people to team up with people that dont even know theyre on a team? epic fail by ccp
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1028	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:53:00 - [14] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: ......, but this kid should be playing minecraft, not dust. Yes, he did all those things, but he's a kid, probably 10 years old, what more did you expect? I think he had good instincts. He knew how to run and melee, figured out how to switch weapons, he had no problem asserting himself over other players, he didn't hide in the redline, he LOVED jumping out the MCC, he was ready and willing to get into action. I believe had he someone knowledgeable in DUST lore there to coach him (I nominate you Mina) he would have had a much better go of it. im sure hes deleted the game by now lol
james rains OUTCAST MERCS General Tso's Alliance 20	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:54:00 - [15] - Quote I started playing dust and knew nothing of what to do. But this kid is no exception to whatever they say. Now I say this because he is messing around, and probably started pressing random buttons in hoping of something good. Probably was smart and looked in the menu. But no there should be no pre-academy. That would be a waste of their time. He is to young to understand that he needs to move around in order not to be shot, he needs to mature a little more. (Actually a lot.)
Vell0cet OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3091	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:59:00 - [16] - Quote james rains wrote: I started playing dust and knew nothing of what to do. But this kid is no exception to whatever they say. Now I say this because he is messing around, and probably started pressing random buttons in hoping of something good. Probably was smart and looked in the menu. But no there should be no pre-academy. That would be a waste of their time. He is to young to understand that he needs to move around in order not to be shot, he needs to mature a little more. (Actually a lot.) It's clear the kid isn't the target market for this game, but we can learn a lot about usability/how to improve the NPE even from kids like this. I think a tutorial is important. Best PvE idea ever!
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1029	Posted - 2015.05.08 14:19:00 - [17] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: james rains wrote: I started playing dust and knew nothing of what to do. But this kid is no exception to whatever they say. Now I say this because he is messing around, and probably started pressing random buttons in hoping of something good. Probably was smart and looked in the menu. But no there should be no pre-academy. That would be a waste of their time. He is to young to understand that he needs to move around in order not to be shot, he needs to mature a little more. (Actually a lot.) It's clear the kid isn't the target market for this game, but we can learn a lot about usability/how to improve the NPE even from kids like this. I think a tutorial is important. this. when I took UI in college we used to test our UI designs by giving them to 5 yr olds. If they could figure it out, then we knew we had an intuitive and easy design. the UI **** we put up with in dust... would not pass the class.
The KTM DuKe Nexus Balusa Horizon 186	Posted - 2015.05.08 14:21:00 - [18] - Quote CHET CHEWS wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj3qK4JY-7I Things to be improved: 1. Hot tips that pop up indicating that you should take cover. (should probably keep the message up until 50% hp is recovered. 2. Menu driven commands for support. This guy on a few occasions wanted a ride, or to offer a ride to his team mates. No one understood what he was doing. (perhaps WP's could be given to fulfilling a request, such as providing ammo, healing, scans, or transportation for those requesting it) 3. Free LAVs that are already spawned in at home spawn. This little guys wants a car, and does not know how to summon one. 4. it's possible that if shared tacnet was still available, this guy might have not died as much lol 5. maybe add a minimum age requirement and aptitude test upon character creation, so that guys like this kid are never allowed to even play. (i sure dont want him on my team lmao) GOOD JOB CCP on such a wonderful New Player Experience Bruh that kid is like 8 and its probably his first fps game EVER! Yeah, it s the kind of player you spawnkill Warning, Forgegun proof V! The 1st Surf-Forgegunner in a PC. Hunting officer gear users.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18859	Posted - 2015.05.08 14:21:00 - [19] - Quote Dude sounds incredibly young. I figure he lacks a developed sense of patience. "MIN MAXING! MIN MAXING! I'M BETTER AT IT THAN YOU!" - Mobius Wyvern
CHET CHEWS PIanet Express Smart Deploy 84	Posted - 2015.05.08 14:47:00 - [20] - Quote Honestly... Not even i was that ******** when i started playing this game... the kids these days are really stupid "FU CHET CHEWS"- Sumar load 2014-2015

Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game RUST415 824	Posted - 2015.05.08 15:02:00 - [21] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: One thing I see lots of new players get hung-up on is calling in vehicles. There should be a tooltip that pops up telling them to press the -> on their d-pad to call in vehicles. This mechanism is different from other similar games in the industry (where they just spawn on the map) and people don't realize they can call in their own vehicles. I'd also like to see a MIL dropship and a MIL HAV added to new players inventories (1 copy of each, not a BPO starter fit), just so they can experience that gameplay right away. I'm sure I had this when I started, along with a free LAV. CCP really needs to bring this tooltip back in my opinion. When the kid turned his LAV around at the end I was thinking "noooo, the large turret round the corner!". Tough to watch lol.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2733	Posted - 2015.05.08 15:06:00 - [22] - Quote Not the target audience. We definitely need an NPE, but not directed at that player, give him a couple more years of fps gaming/problem solving under his belt first. The one thing we should do for that kid is the UI, which is the opposite of intuitive. That video demonstrates that some players are not going to read anything, ever - and they shouldn't have to. There are 7/8 year olds who manage to get a handle on what's going on, who use cover and who know/intuit what is the objective, avoid turrets, etc. The kid did have some experience with fps games however, he knew the titles of CoD/BF, how to move/shoot/change weapons and his difficulty with vehicles stems from his expectations from those games. One of the biggest bang-for-the-buck approaches to Dust's NPE might be 'What's different about Dust' in-character walkthroughs, starting with a 30 second crashcourse and branching out from there, but keep them shortish. Players' experience and and interest will determine their path through the walkthroughs. PSN: RationalSpark
Jaran Vilktar CORP SIX KING Smart Deploy 200	Posted - 2015.05.08 15:13:00 - [23] - Quote The kid was clearly playing dust like it was Battlefield or CoD. The reason he died so much is probably because he thought that as soon as someone opened fire the mini-map would flash a red dot on his radar to indicate a target's direction since it is a common thing in most fps games, this isn't the case in DUST which is why he was constantly complaining "Where are they shooting me from!?". Also, we need a comma-rose feature for DUST. It's rather difficult to display one's intentions to other blues when you don't have or don't want to use a headset. I can't believe I did it. 514 Logins
Summa Militum TotalAscendancy 422	Posted - 2015.05.08 15:34:00 - [24] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj3qK4JY-7I Things to be improved: 1. Hot tips that pop up indicating that you should take cover. (should probably keep the message up until 50% hp is recovered. 2. Menu driven commands for support. This guy on a few occasions wanted a ride, or to offer a ride to his team mates. No one understood what he was doing. (perhaps WP's could be given to fulfilling a request, such as providing ammo, healing, scans, or transportation for those requesting it) 3. Free LAVs that are already spawned in at home spawn. This little guys wants a car, and does not know how to summon one. 4. it's possible that if shared tacnet was still available, this guy might have not died as much lol 5. maybe add a minimum age requirement and aptitude test upon character creation, so that guys like this kid are never allowed to even play. (i sure dont want him on my team lmao) GOOD JOB CCP on such a wonderful New Player Experience The kid in the video...his negative experience is his fault. He had a one-track mind that had nothing to do with the objective of that match. Also, he raged quit after 2 matches of a game he had never played before. He clearly didn't bother to try to figure this game out. Heaven forbid he has to try. When I first started playing this game I was brutally slaughtered by the enemies. I didn't rage quit though; instead, I focused on trying to figure out how other people were getting kills and I wasn't. As for the things that can be improved I am all for suggestion 2. The ability to give out commands to the entire team and not just to squadmates will definitely help new player experience. I am against suggestion 1 because I don't feel like we should be babying people in this game. If you are being shot at you shouldn't need a "tip" to pop up on the screen telling you to get to cover; common sense should tell you to get to cover. Tip 3: No free vehicles - earn your vehicles if you want to use them. Tip 4: A shared tacnet would not have helped this kid. Shared tacnet would simply be one more factor this kid would have to focus on when he couldn't even fully focus on the factors already presented to him in the matches he was playing. Tip 5: I thought about this but not as a means to stop someone from playing the game. I have always wanted a skill ranking to pop up for my teammates around me that way I can get an idea of how much I can rely on them.
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 7358	Posted - 2015.05.08 15:51:00 - [25] - Quote I didn't see any portals. Disappointed.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. RUST415 3743	Posted - 2015.05.08 16:07:00 - [26] - Quote That video reminded me a bit of my 6 year old nephew when he tried to play Dust.
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance 2827	Posted - 2015.05.08 16:23:00 - [27] - Quote T for Teen means nothing. Dont mind me iget told, at least before, my mind was 'innocent.' Now im told to not be so blunt and bashful. xD Min scout-Wolverine Gal scout-Hawkeye Snake Eyes>All Determinator inbound
Vell0cet OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3094	Posted - 2015.05.08 17:06:00 - [28] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: The kid in the video...his negative experience is his fault. He had a one-track mind that had nothing to do with the objective of that match. Also, he raged quit after 2 matches of a game he had never played before. He clearly didn't bother to try to figure this game out. Heaven forbid he has to try. When I first started playing this game I was brutally slaughtered by the enemies. I didn't rage quit though; instead, I focused on trying to figure out how other people were getting kills and I wasn't. As for the things that can be improved I am all for suggestion 2. The ability to give out commands to the entire team and not just to squadmates will definitely help new player experience. I am against suggestion 1 because I don't feel like we should be babying people in this game. If you are being shot at you shouldn't need a "tip" to pop up on the screen telling you to get to cover; common sense should tell you to get to cover. Tip 3: No free vehicles - earn your vehicles if you want to use them. Tip 4: A shared tacnet would not have helped this kid. Shared tacnet would simply be one more factor this kid would have to focus on when he couldn't even fully focus on the factors already presented to him in the matches he was playing. Tip 5: I thought about this but not as a means to stop someone from playing the game. I have always wanted a skill ranking to pop up for my teammates around me that way I can get an idea of how much I can rely on them. There are 3 types of players: 1. Players who will sick around and do whatever it takes to figure out the game (going online, watching youtube tutorials, reading guides, etc.). You seem to be one of these 2. Players who would stick around, but can't figure out the game and leave. 3. Players who even if they had a truly polished, 1st class tutorial and had everything perfectly explained would still leave because this isn't the game for them. The kid in the video would fall into this category (he'd be much happier playing Mario Kart). Group 1 is probably a very small percentage of the overall gaming population (incidentally most of us who are hear now are in group 1. It's not enough to sustain the game though. We need to work on "hand-holding" group 2 so we can get the player retention percentages higher. I think that's probably our biggest obstacle to seeing a port to x86 architecture. If 99% of the players who download the game quit and never come back, then CCP isn't going to green light the port. Best PvE idea ever!
Bremen van Equis Incorruptibles 466	Posted - 2015.05.08 17:10:00 - [29] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: One thing I see lots of new players get hung-up on is calling in vehicles. There should be a tooltip that pops up telling them to press the -> on their d-pad to call in vehicles. This mechanism is different from other similar games in the industry (where they just spawn on the map) and people don't realize they can call in their own vehicles. I'd also like to see a MIL dropship and a MIL HAV added to new players inventories (1 copy of each, not a BPO starter fit), just so they can experience that gameplay right away. No need to resort to actual programming. The daily missions of new players can be tailored to help them learn. Example: DAILY MISSION: Call in a Light Attack Vehicle (LAV). You have been granted 5 starter LAV fits. Once on the ground and in an open area, press right on the d-pad to bring up the vehicle menu. Enjoy the ride! MISSION REWARD: 2x awesome purple Quafe LAVs Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. RUST415 793	Posted - 2015.05.08 18:24:00 - [30] - Quote If memory serves me correct the EULA states 13 as the minimum age. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1033	Posted - 2015.05.08 18:35:00 - [31] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: If memory serves me correct the EULA states 13 as the minimum age. oh? ban the noobs!
Bremen van Equis Incorruptibles 467	Posted - 2015.05.08 18:37:00 - [32] - Quote Dust is my babysitter...and my lover. Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
Balistyc Farshot OUTCAST MERCS General Tso's Alliance 167	Posted - 2015.05.08 19:55:00 - [33] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: ......, but this kid should be playing minecraft, not dust. Yes, he did all those things, but he's a kid, probably 10 years old, what more did you expect? I think he had good instincts. He knew how to run and melee, figured out how to switch weapons, he had no problem asserting himself over other players, he didn't hide in the redline, he LOVED jumping out the MCC, he was ready and willing to get into action. I believe had he someone knowledgeable in DUST lore there to coach him (I nominate you Mina) he would have had a much better go of it. We need to have a corp set that they have to join right out of the academy. Maybe make an NPC corp channel. Then this kid can be talked to from the other noob players into improving. The problem is, too many vets dismiss this kid. I like your comment because you see his potential. Yeah he is a kid, but with a little help he could be great. I know a 12 year old shotgun scout who is a beast. It just happens. See the potential! From Logi, to Heavy, to Scout, now I am moving to ADS. Please stop balancing!
Cesar Geronimo DUST University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2015.05.08 20:29:00 - [34] - Quote Anybody who's played CoD or Battlefield knows that kid and millions more like him quite well...
Tweaksz Titans of Phoenix RUST415 218	Posted - 2015.05.08 21:32:00 - [35] - Quote Is this the really thinking capacity of a 10 year old now a days? I weep for the future. Pill Popping Madness!
Cypher Nil Fireteam Tempest 287	Posted - 2015.05.08 22:58:00 - [36] - Quote I've said it for months, the LAV's need a horn to signal to teammates n++pâçGòÉS+Ç 28+ Million SP Merc n++pâçGòÉS+Ç Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Caldari Loyalist Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Of course we won, now when do I get paid?
Void Echo Helix Order Learning Alliance 2809	Posted - 2015.05.09 00:18:00 - [37] - Quote Squeeker alert!!!! Closed Beta Vet. CEO: Helix Order. I have the controlled anger, more dangerous than you.
castba Rogue Instincts New Eden's Heros 875	Posted - 2015.05.09 00:52:00 - [38] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Vell0cet wrote: james rains wrote: I started playing dust and knew nothing of what to do. But this kid is no exception to whatever they say. Now I say this because he is messing around, and probably started pressing random buttons in hoping of something good. Probably was smart and looked in the menu. But no there should be no pre-academy. That would be a waste of their time. He is to young to understand that he needs to move around in order not to be shot, he needs to mature a little more. (Actually a lot.) It's clear the kid isn't the target market for this game, but we can learn a lot about usability/how to improve the NPE even from kids like this. I think a tutorial is important. this. when I took UI in college we used to test our UI designs by giving them to 5 yr olds. If they could figure it out, then we knew we had an intuitive and easy design. the UI **** we put up with in dust... would not pass the class. So the goal was to dumb things down so much that a 5yo could figure it out easily? Is this really the kind of goal adults should be striving to achieve? Should this be the standard required for adults? Why do I keep getting flashes of the IQ test in Idiocracy? "When everything is OP, nothing is" - CCP Ratatti
Vell0cet OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3095	Posted - 2015.05.09 01:32:00 - [39] - Quote castba wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Vell0cet wrote: james rains wrote: I started playing dust and knew nothing of what to do. But this kid is no exception to whatever they say. Now I say this because he is messing around, and probably started pressing random buttons in hoping of something good. Probably was smart and looked in the menu. But no there should be no pre-academy. That would be a waste of their time. He is to young to understand that he needs to move around in order not to be shot, he needs to mature a little more. (Actually a lot.) It's clear the kid isn't the target market for this game, but we can learn a lot about usability/how to improve the NPE even from kids like this. I think a tutorial is important. this. when I took UI in college we used to test our UI designs by giving them to 5 yr olds. If they could figure it out, then we knew we had an intuitive and easy design. the UI **** we put up with in dust... would not pass the class. So the goal was to dumb things down so much that a 5yo could figure it out easily? Is this really the kind of goal adults should be striving to achieve? Should this be the standard required for adults? Why do I keep getting flashes of the IQ test in Idiocracy? When it comes to user interfaces, yes. Make them as intuitive as possible. Mastery should come from tactics, strategy , teamwork, etc. not from being great at poorly designed UI. The UI should be obvious, intuitive and get out of the player's way. Best PvE idea ever!
byte modal 216	Posted - 2015.05.09 01:42:00 - [40] - Quote Not really reading the replies, but wanted to comment on the video. HA! I'm laughing my arse off, but prolly not for the same as I'm guessing most are ;) This kid is awesome. Like... make him an unsung MASCOT! lol. Singing songs on "Suicide is baaa-ah-ah-ad" la la la ..... OMG! I should have KILLED him! WUT Thuh Fuuuuuuaaarrrgh!!! hhhuuuuuuh!!! a CAAAAR!!!! Hello, Sir. Let's be friends! Seriously. Everything coming out of this kid's mouth is awesome. I'd watch him give play by plays for anything DUST. Fussing over the politics of car sharing. Ok DUDE? get OUT of the unsafe zone! What is wrong with you!? Where are we going?! What the heck!? What are you doing sir!? STOP IT!! hahaha. Controller----low?! (video game injury) OUCH!!! *sings: "Lord has given us a car...." take me with you! I'm DONE (wooof wooof wooof!) ROFL. that dog. lol. I'm in tears. I love this kid. Ok. My apologies if I'm way off the point of this thread. I've wanted some minimal sense of PVE guidance since forever. I guess that's on point more or less. For all the knocks, the kid was strafing when he got the drop on that one red. So there's that. wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle...yeah. Ok. back to other things now. lol thanks for the link kitten bacon taco (nom)

byte modal 218	Posted - 2015.05.09 02:04:00 - [41] - Quote Alright. I actually did read most of the replies earlier so I'll throw something more responsible out. Yeah, UI should be intuitive. The easier to access, the faster involved the user is. I'm not saying complexity is bad, but it should have specific purpose relative to the media at hand. It's a bit ironic arguing against well-designed simplistic UI when the argument distills the point down to "simple=bad just cuz a 5yo can do it." Yes, efficiency is a consideration of many adults. Adaptation, improvisation, evolution, methodology, practice and refinement, it's all a means to get better by making the complicated less complicated. Otherwise, we'd all still be rolling around in Fred Flintstone cars ...with square stone wheels. hm. I'm sure there's a Geico commercial tag in there somewhere. kitten bacon taco (nom)
The Eristic Dust 90210 944	Posted - 2015.05.09 02:38:00 - [42] - Quote Th' Looord has giv'n us a caaarrr! Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
Taeyeon Seyun DUST University Ivy League 47	Posted - 2015.05.09 03:55:00 - [43] - Quote His other dust video was amusing as well. He got a few roadkills with a lav. Someone called in a minor strike and he said something like, "did that come from heaven." Wish he had someone to help him out. I think he would be alright with some guidance, and to not try to play the game like C.O.D. * Cupcake enthusiast *
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 973	Posted - 2015.05.09 04:34:00 - [44] - Quote So thats the point of view of a blueberry. Just hillarious to watch and i will have mercy from now on. Im just gonna carry a flaylock and shot their corpse so they dont have to wait till they actually bled out to be aible to spawn on the next best thing. Every 1 should do that in my opinion cause explosive damage of any kind (be it friendly or hostile) will force a bleed out onto those poor souls. Seriously its just beyond me how he could run around with 0 situational awareness. Hes like a headless chicken and it wouldnt matter what FPS game he would had played he would end up as cannonfodder in every single one. Well maybe on COD he could get a kill with a deathstreak reward or by sitting in a corner with a shotgun. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2414	Posted - 2015.05.09 05:13:00 - [45] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: So thats the point of view of a blueberry. Just hillarious to watch and i will have mercy from now on. Im just gonna carry a flaylock and shot their corpse so they dont have to wait till they actually bled out to be aible to spawn on the next best thing. Every 1 should do that in my opinion cause explosive damage of any kind (be it friendly or hostile) will force a bleed out onto those poor souls. Seriously its just beyond me how he could run around with 0 situational awareness. Hes like a headless chicken and it wouldnt matter what FPS game he would had played he would end up as cannonfodder in every single one. Well maybe on COD he could get a kill with a deathstreak reward or by sitting in a corner with a shotgun. Still the kid's better than my 8 year old sister- who throws the controller down and covers her eyes when she sees anything red on screen. I've had the joy of personally tutoring a few young-uns. I think his name was Majestic-Kitty(I feel Cat Merc would be his father...) He joined my squad randomly, and at first i was confused at the high pitched voice, but then i started to realize this kid had a huge Sci-Fi fixation- playing mostly M rated games like Metal gear Rising and a few Xbox games i think, but i asked him what his favorite thing to do in those games was- he said healer/support types like the Technician in HAWKEN or the Spy in TF2- to which i said "Here, try Logistics, buy a few of each race's LP suit, fit it with a rep/nano/scan and go to town. After a few matches tell me which race you think you like best. To my surprise- he said Caldari- it has the best shields. I told him that shields weren't that great as of yet, he said that would be fine, just means they'll get buffed soon right? Anyways i eventually managed to teach him the nuances of weapon profiles and how that effects his tanking, and that while shields are weak, 300-400 shields would save him from a Core if he mainly armor tanks. To that i hear "Wow.... This is like, intense." I ended up playing for like 3 months with that kid, except i guess he stopped liking it because shields never got the buff they've been needing since forever. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 973	Posted - 2015.05.09 06:52:00 - [46] - Quote Sorry but i do not want squeakers around me. To say it bluntly games like this shouldnt be played by kids to begin with and is a sign of bad parenting. Just like the regular American that buys his Kid the next COD for christmas cause otherwise it would pull off a tantrum. And if he cant figure out how Dust works to begin with then he shouldnt play it and go back to COD. This game is a complex sci-fi shoter with a rather mature setting. The only purpose of people like that is to be cannonfodder. We dont need CCP holding everybodys hand troughout the whole game. The new matchmaking is allready enough help that those guys get cause it puts them vs similar people who cant play the game neither. Sadly this does not work to 100% for the vets. I see way too many scrubs beeing thrown with us into a match though they just dont have what it takes. But meh if it would be perfect on matching me vs and with similar skilled players then i might wait 1hour+ to actually get into a match. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Oswald Rehnquist 1515	Posted - 2015.05.09 09:34:00 - [47] - Quote Just stating what others have said more or less but the child lacks the mental capacity to play any competitive game (as least for the rest of 2015). In no way shape or form should the game be designed around this particular type of user. The kid operates on instant gratification which makes teaching more or less impossible and his gaming experience seems to have been with games that flatten player skill (which cater to his base). Dust's leveling system alone would annoy him due to the lack of instant gratification and having to earn/plan something over time. The kid quite frankly as displayed at around the 10:30 min mark and beyond, is inconsiderate as well, which shows how the kid is even socially undeveloped. Its not even necessarily an age thing, I have a sister who is a lot younger than me, plays games as well. She can take criticism, learn from watching or experimenting, and is able to take a loss in stride, this is entirely a personality thing. Yet all her highschool guy friends think they can take her on because shes a girl. They quickly lose, because they play like they are mentally handicap because they never once challenged themselves or their egos. My sister is a lot nicer than I am, and then goes easier on them. If I am over and they challange me in a game, I leave them begging for a coop game. When I beat my sister over and over, she just gets better. You can't really teach people who don't like to challenge themselves and you can't teach people who want instant gratification. They can't think, make reads, condition other players, or self examine themselves for errors. The most successful games market towards this group though with non challenging or equalizing mechanics, Dust has too much of its design targeting the more disciplined crowd to mix things up. Dust's current state is due to waiting way too long before getting a good responsive team together, which I think Legion is partly to blame for that. Dust has a better shot as a niche game than as a CoD competitor. Below 28 dB
Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2420	Posted - 2015.05.09 18:08:00 - [48] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Just stating what others have said more or less but the child lacks the mental capacity to play any hard competitive game (as least for the rest of 2015). In no way shape or form should the game be designed around this particular type of user. The kid operates on instant gratification which makes teaching more or less impossible and his gaming experience seems to have been with games that flatten player skill (which cater to his base). Dust's leveling system alone would annoy him due to the lack of instant gratification and having to earn/plan something over time. Its not even necessarily an age thing, I have a sister who is a lot younger than me, plays games as well. She can take criticism, learn from watching or experimenting, and is able to take a loss in stride, this is entirely a personality thing. Dust has too much of its design targeting the more disciplined crowd to mix things up. Dust's current state is due to waiting way too long before getting a good responsive team together, which I think Legion is partly to blame for that. Dust has a better shot as a niche game than as a CoD competitor. There are some kids i've seen though that seriously enjoy these games though. Myself included when i was a tyke, there are some of us who enjoy working to play through that rated M title and figuring out how to beat X boss or how to handle Z situation with Y equipment. Ever played Star Wars the Phantom Menace? Yeah that thing had some genuinely difficult portions that even my 20 year old self have problems with, yet i had the patience as a child to defeat. Wanna know what my first PS1 title was? Armored Core and Gran Turismo. Btw on the latter i made it myself up to Super license. Sure we shouldn't be catering to the children who only want instant gratification, but we should at least make it -possible- for such a player to enjoy this game, if they wish to deal with the games' other nuances/difficulties. Having a UI that is intuitive such that even a drunken person could navigate it should always be one of the first things you try and make possible. A few of this games' things are intuitive for the genre, namely the weapon/equipment wheel which i've only seen in Far Cry and Red Faction, even then sometimes being a bit difficult to handle. The fitting menu was a nightmare to handle, until i'd imagine when they included the marketplace heirarchy into the fittings menu. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
byte modal 219	Posted - 2015.05.09 18:47:00 - [49] - Quote I'm confused on the correlation being assumed between good intuitive UI and catering to 5 year old 'squeakers.' It was a good example to cite problems with the game's lack of intuitive access points. No one is saying make hello kitty 514. Read and actually pick up on what's being said rather than focusing on your shortsighted assumption on what you think is being said. It's wild how a single illustrative point (of many) can become the singular representation of someone else's argument. Good, simplified UI is gewd. Overly complicated for the sake of complication or lack of user interaction consideration is not. How is this a defense-inducing topic? kitten bacon taco (nom)
Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2421	Posted - 2015.05.10 00:53:00 - [50] - Quote byte modal wrote: I'm confused on the correlation being assumed between good intuitive UI and catering to 5 year old 'squeakers.' It was a good example to cite problems with the game's lack of intuitive access points. No one is saying make hello kitty 514. Read and actually pick up on what's being said rather than focusing on your shortsighted assumption on what you think is being said. It's wild how a single illustrative point (of many) can become the singular representation of someone else's argument. Good, simplified UI is gewd. Overly complicated for the sake of complication or lack of user interaction consideration is not. How is this a defense-inducing topic? Intuitive UI being able to be read by a 5 year old meaning "Oh, high slots are this through this" Not "Oh, high slots are.... 50 copies of a blue bottle, 30 copies of a battery, one iwth a different icon, and countless other event items." You shouldn't have to be a 20+ year old to navigate a menu or pull the pin on a grenade. You also shouldn't have to go wiki/forum lurking to discover that a Plasma Rifle is for CQC and -not- sniping. In other games, "Assault Rifle" Is akin to a AK-47 or M-16, where it's usable at a variety of ranges. You should have a tooltip or likewise in-game hint at the weapon being short-ranged, and not a general purpose almost-all-ranges weapon. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'

byte modal 219	Posted - 2015.05.10 01:11:00 - [51] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: byte modal wrote: I'm confused on the correlation being assumed between good intuitive UI and catering to 5 year old 'squeakers.' It was a good example to cite problems with the game's lack of intuitive access points. No one is saying make hello kitty 514. Read and actually pick up on what's being said rather than focusing on your shortsighted assumption on what you think is being said. It's wild how a single illustrative point (of many) can become the singular representation of someone else's argument. Good, simplified UI is gewd. Overly complicated for the sake of complication or lack of user interaction consideration is not. How is this a defense-inducing topic? Intuitive UI being able to be read by a 5 year old meaning "Oh, high slots are this through this" Not "Oh, high slots are.... 50 copies of a blue bottle, 30 copies of a battery, one iwth a different icon, and countless other event items." You shouldn't have to be a 20+ year old to navigate a menu or pull the pin on a grenade. You also shouldn't have to go wiki/forum lurking to discover that a Plasma Rifle is for CQC and -not- sniping. In other games, "Assault Rifle" Is akin to a AK-47 or M-16, where it's usable at a variety of ranges. You should have a tooltip or likewise in-game hint at the weapon being short-ranged, and not a general purpose almost-all-ranges weapon. i think im kinda agreeing with you though :) maybe i wasn't clear. kitten bacon taco (nom)
TEXA5 HiTM4N ROGUE SPADES 609	Posted - 2015.05.10 02:09:00 - [52] - Quote and this is why PVE is needed. you put a child against a bunch of neckbeards this is the result.
Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2423	Posted - 2015.05.10 02:28:00 - [53] - Quote byte modal wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: byte modal wrote: I'm confused on the correlation being assumed between good intuitive UI and catering to 5 year old 'squeakers.' It was a good example to cite problems with the game's lack of intuitive access points. No one is saying make hello kitty 514. Read and actually pick up on what's being said rather than focusing on your shortsighted assumption on what you think is being said. It's wild how a single illustrative point (of many) can become the singular representation of someone else's argument. Good, simplified UI is gewd. Overly complicated for the sake of complication or lack of user interaction consideration is not. How is this a defense-inducing topic? Intuitive UI being able to be read by a 5 year old meaning "Oh, high slots are this through this" Not "Oh, high slots are.... 50 copies of a blue bottle, 30 copies of a battery, one iwth a different icon, and countless other event items." You shouldn't have to be a 20+ year old to navigate a menu or pull the pin on a grenade. You also shouldn't have to go wiki/forum lurking to discover that a Plasma Rifle is for CQC and -not- sniping. In other games, "Assault Rifle" Is akin to a AK-47 or M-16, where it's usable at a variety of ranges. You should have a tooltip or likewise in-game hint at the weapon being short-ranged, and not a general purpose almost-all-ranges weapon. i think im kinda agreeing with you though :) maybe i wasn't clear. I dunno, I guess i'm only reaffirming my own point aggressively. Been a rough week for me. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
SHADOWBlood ASSASSIN The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 120	Posted - 2015.05.10 02:51:00 - [54] - Quote This kid makes me feel bad for being a teenager... He ruins our reputations.... Not all of us are scrubs =P My worst DUST experience? Having my dropship crush my Scotsman's with a Roden Sniper. THAT was a fun day...
byte modal 219	Posted - 2015.05.10 03:05:00 - [55] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: I dunno, I guess i'm only reaffirming my own point aggressively. Been a rough week for me. I got you, and totally agree. What I was getting at with my post earlier was my frustration in how the conversation drifted to the oversimplification of what I think the OP was on about. In other words, kats were arguing against good UI because they don't want "kids" mucking up their game. I just think it's silly to equate good UI to catering to children or something. I don't even think that should be the conversation.... just that good UI is good. Period. Making things easier and accessible is good for any new player. Like you said, you shouldn't be 20+ with a degree in wtfever to decipher cryptic design. It should be simple, clear, and as seamless as possible. I think there's a lot of really awkward interface design throughout the game. I still love the game, but there's no denying bad UI choices. To your post, the week is over finally. I hope this next one treats you better. kitten bacon taco (nom)
Adan Montano Pietsch Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 23	Posted - 2015.05.10 03:22:00 - [56] - Quote Okkkk im not really a douchey type of person who laughs at other peoples hardships and whatnot, BUUuttt that was fuken HILARIOUS LOLLLLLLL, the kid was convinced the game was about driving cars lolololol Just doing merc stuff
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1043	Posted - 2015.05.10 04:16:00 - [57] - Quote byte modal wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: I dunno, I guess i'm only reaffirming my own point aggressively. Been a rough week for me. I got you, and totally agree. What I was getting at with my post earlier was my frustration in how the conversation drifted to the oversimplification of what I think the OP was on about. In other words, kats were arguing against good UI because they don't want "kids" mucking up their game. I just think it's silly to equate good UI to catering to children or something. I don't even think that should be the conversation.... just that good UI is good. Period. Making things easier and accessible is good for any new player. Like you said, you shouldn't be 20+ with a degree in wtfever to decipher cryptic design. It should be simple, clear, and as seamless as possible. I think there's a lot of really awkward interface design throughout the game. I still love the game, but there's no denying bad UI choices. To your post, the week is over finally. I hope this next one treats you better. a remapping some of the buttons would be a good start. for instance, 1. the push to talk button is probably the least used button of all. It could serve better use as something else. 2. the select button is used in BF to tag targets, similar to the squad leaders attack order. when i first played the game i kept trying to tag enemies by pressing select. i was soon disappointed to find out that not only did the select button not tag enemies, bu that there wasnt even a tag feature implemented. 3. the squad order wheel needs work. it should include basic request orders that are available to everyone. Requesting ammo, remote repairs, transportation, as well as a tag function for briefly tagging enemies would be useful. more importantly, it allows for fluid communication between players without or not using mics, and players of different nationalities. Considering that many players are from different countries, being able to effectively communicate with each other despite language barriers would be huge step toward increasing teamwork. 4. maybe a horn for vehicles could prove useful lol
Matius Indectus Shadow of the Raven 15	Posted - 2015.05.10 04:39:00 - [58] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: He's a younger gamer. Things aren't as intuitive if you haven't been playing FPS games for a decade. Not his fault, but that is probably a lot of the reason he floundered and flailed so much. DUST 514 needs a proper tutorial. Pre-academy, new players should be put into a kind of clone "boot camp" simulator. You are given tasks to learn things like weapon damage profiles, summoning vehicles, hacking objectives/installations, deploying equipment, etc. That would have helped this fellow out quite a bit. When I was growing up I learned how to play a game by playing through the campaign, it allows you to get used to the controls and gameplay and gradually increases the difficulty along the way. If you can't read in between the lines, then what makes you think you can write?
Henrietta Unknown Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 1384	Posted - 2015.05.10 05:39:00 - [59] - Quote The amount of times he was killed by Combat Rifles...I'm not surprised. Even a STD CR is extremely lethal. I applaud his driving skills (save the head-on collision). I want him as my personal taxi-driver! He knows how to run over people better than I do. Selling Items Store - Code Bazaar
Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 679	Posted - 2015.05.10 08:07:00 - [60] - Quote Isn't matchmaking supposed to fix this? Little kids will tend to be at the bottom of the Mu and matchmaking if they aren't learning the game. Sp, no problem. This kid sounded like my son when he plays except he doesn't care if he gets killed. He just keeps rockin the sniper and rail cannon. Does pretty good on kills too. Death is a serious businessGÇª So is running a shoddy, half-baked game company.

hold that Capital Acquisitions LLC 817	Posted - 2015.05.10 08:50:00 - [61] - Quote Dang I watched the vid before I read the op ready to come back and talk sht. What a waste of space whoever in that vid was.
Oswald Rehnquist 1518	Posted - 2015.05.10 23:19:00 - [62] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: There are some kids i've seen though that seriously enjoy these games though. Myself included when i was a tyke, there are some of us who enjoy working to play through that rated M title and figuring out how to beat X boss or how to handle Z situation with Y equipment. Ever played Star Wars the Phantom Menace? Yeah that thing had some genuinely difficult portions that even my 20 year old self have problems with, yet i had the patience as a child to defeat. Wanna know what my first PS1 title was? Armored Core and Gran Turismo. Btw on the latter i made it myself up to Super license. Sure we shouldn't be catering to the children who only want instant gratification, but we should at least make it -possible- for such a player to enjoy this game, if they wish to deal with the games' other nuances/difficulties. Having a UI that is intuitive such that even a drunken person could navigate it should always be one of the first things you try and make possible. A few of this games' things are intuitive for the genre, namely the weapon/equipment wheel which i've only seen in Far Cry and Red Faction, even then sometimes being a bit difficult to handle. The fitting menu was a nightmare to handle, until i'd imagine when they included the marketplace heirarchy into the fittings menu. We have been given a video to base the argument off the targeted audience in question. The kid's problem had nothing to do with anything but what I outlined in my earlier post in regards to personality. I know little girls who play better, one of them being my sister who can't even drive yet but has already beaten the souls games and is currently playing bloodborne. Can the UI be tweaked, sure, but its certainly not the silver bullet or even the squeaky wheel. Most people can learn in a static environment, there is no pressure in the fitting environment that prevents people from reading. I mean Dust Fitting table is not that different than neverwinter nights's fitting table, the only thing else NvN has is pictures / drag and drop. http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Inventory_slot?file=Inventory_slots.jpg Only way CCP can dumb it down further is to give pictures for kids who think reading in video games is for dweebs (I don't feel sorry for people who skip text and then don't know what to do). Plus the kid in question was not even so far as to have left starter fits to even run into issues with the fitting table, he also didn't complain about anything beyond dying or other players not giving in to his weird demands. So challenging the UI system seems slightly disingenuous unless the kid showed examples of himself struggling with or verbally lambasting the UI system. Below 28 dB


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