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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2477
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Posted - 2015.04.05 21:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
Gallogi use went up and more things started being able to see scouts in addition to a slew of assault buffs. That said scouts are still one of the better suits in the game and a scout can still crank out ~1500 damage in 3 shots taking around 1.5seconds. Shotguns themselves are a relatively terrible weapon propped up only by the speed and more importantly the stealth of scouts.
If shotguns did less alpha but were more oriented to fighting at 5-20m you'd see shotgun assaults and commandos actually be a thing and it would be great. Scr is unsurprisingly a better shotgun due to its similar damage and longer range.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
9085
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Posted - 2015.04.05 21:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:Gallogi use went up and more things started being able to see scouts in addition to a slew of assault buffs. That said scouts are still one of the better suits in the game and a scout can still crank out ~1500 damage in 3 shots taking around 1.5seconds. Shotguns themselves are a relatively terrible weapon propped up only by the speed and more importantly the stealth of scouts.
If shotguns did less alpha but were more oriented to fighting at 5-20m you'd see shotgun assaults and commandos actually be a thing and it would be great. Scr is unsurprisingly a better shotgun due to its similar damage and longer range.
But as someone else pointed out, Assaults, particularly MinAss, with all their fitting space and current base numbers, can run just as fast (and faster when compared to base speeds of Amarr) as a Scout, dampen sufficiently to beat most medium and long range passive scans, as well as most active, AND have 2X the HP of a Scout, often more.
That kind of weaponry can be, and is, better used by Assaults now than Scouts in almost every circumstance.
The ONLY things Assaults can't do better is beat 15 dB scans (which given the HP sacrifice may be pointless anyways), and fit a cloak (which is a large pain in the ass and largely ineffective even for what it is supposed to do in allowing low HP suits to cross open terrain).
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Bad Intention
1122
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Posted - 2015.04.05 21:24:00 -
[33] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:That said scouts are still one of the better suits in the game and a scout can still crank out ~1500 damage in 3 shots taking around 1.5seconds.
.
Actually shotguns require a 3 second interval to output that damage, but that weapon can be just as viable on an assault suits.
In terms of role, scouts are out-performed by assault suits, no matter how you slice it.
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8566
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Posted - 2015.04.05 21:25:00 -
[34] - Quote
VALCORE72 wrote:annnnnnd this is why scouts were nerfd ......... you did everything better then assaults . im glad where scouts are and will stay for a long time . running scouts as assault with cloaking is what got them nerfd . you have no one to blame but your self . 80% of the sever was running scouts at one time .scouts will never be even close to what they were .
No one wants that.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
717
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Posted - 2015.04.05 21:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:VALCORE72 wrote:annnnnnd this is why scouts were nerfd ......... you did everything better then assaults . im glad where scouts are and will stay for a long time . running scouts as assault with cloaking is what got them nerfd . you have no one to blame but your self . 80% of the sever was running scouts at one time .scouts will never be even close to what they were .i see novas and shottys being looked at in the next few months but could be wrong Scouts needed to be nerfed, that is without question. How they did it and the nerfs they used, I think is where the problem is. There were many proposed changes to Scouts that would have lessened their overlap with Assaults, which was the main problem. In fact, the Scouts that played pre 1.8 did not ask for many of the changes put in place, and even TOLD CCP that Scouts shouldn't be able to fire a weapon from cloak, and that that would be OP, but pre Rattati CCP were by and large deaf. Balanced Scouts do not mean UP Scouts anymore than they mean OP Scouts.
Don't forget that assaults have been massively buffed as well. Something that should have been done sooner, before scouts were nerfed.
Not saying the nerfs to scouts haven't been mostly good and necessary. I feel the balance is pretty good.
The only major issues I have are, the cloak delay has been poorly implemented, and the shimmer is too easily spotted, now that it's been fixed so there's a delay, and considering how important the cloak is to a scout (yes I know it's not always necessary).
Also I'm not entirely sure an Amarr scout has much of a role to play.
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
9088
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Posted - 2015.04.05 21:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:One Eyed King wrote:VALCORE72 wrote:annnnnnd this is why scouts were nerfd ......... you did everything better then assaults . im glad where scouts are and will stay for a long time . running scouts as assault with cloaking is what got them nerfd . you have no one to blame but your self . 80% of the sever was running scouts at one time .scouts will never be even close to what they were .i see novas and shottys being looked at in the next few months but could be wrong Scouts needed to be nerfed, that is without question. How they did it and the nerfs they used, I think is where the problem is. There were many proposed changes to Scouts that would have lessened their overlap with Assaults, which was the main problem. In fact, the Scouts that played pre 1.8 did not ask for many of the changes put in place, and even TOLD CCP that Scouts shouldn't be able to fire a weapon from cloak, and that that would be OP, but pre Rattati CCP were by and large deaf. Balanced Scouts do not mean UP Scouts anymore than they mean OP Scouts. Don't forget that assaults have been massively buffed as well. Something that should have been done sooner, before scouts were nerfed. Not saying the nerfs to scouts haven't been mostly good and necessary. I feel the balance is pretty good. The only major issues I have are, the cloak delay has been poorly implemented, and the shimmer is too easily spotted, now that it's been fixed so there's a delay, and considering how important the cloak is to a scout (yes I know it's not always necessary). Also I'm not entirely sure an Amarr scout has much of a role to play.
Agreed entirely.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2480
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Posted - 2015.04.05 21:49:00 -
[37] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:That said scouts are still one of the better suits in the game and a scout can still crank out ~1500 damage in 3 shots taking around 1.5seconds.
. Actually shotguns require a 3 second interval to output that damage, but that weapon can be just as viable on an assault suits. In terms of role, scouts are out-performed by assault suits, no matter how you slice it.
Shotguns have a .7(5) refire time. They get two shots in under 1s, and a third shot either at 1.4 or 1.5s
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Bad Intention
1122
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Posted - 2015.04.05 21:53:00 -
[38] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:That said scouts are still one of the better suits in the game and a scout can still crank out ~1500 damage in 3 shots taking around 1.5seconds.
. Actually shotguns require a 3 second interval to output that damage, but that weapon can be just as viable on an assault suits. In terms of role, scouts are out-performed by assault suits, no matter how you slice it. Shotguns have a .7(5) refire time. They get two shots in under 1s, and a third shot either at 1.4 or 1.5s
Really? I recall it being 1.3 or something to that effect..
Edit: Still scouts are in a awful position in terms of role, besides it's not like shotguns are exclusive to scout suits.
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8566
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Posted - 2015.04.05 21:56:00 -
[39] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:That said scouts are still one of the better suits in the game and a scout can still crank out ~1500 damage in 3 shots taking around 1.5seconds.
. Actually shotguns require a 3 second interval to output that damage, but that weapon can be just as viable on an assault suits. In terms of role, scouts are out-performed by assault suits, no matter how you slice it. Shotguns have a .7(5) refire time. They get two shots in under 1s, and a third shot either at 1.4 or 1.5s
Your figure assumes max damage; to deal max damage, the shotgun must be recentered over the target between blasts. Your numbers appear to be correct though. If you're attacking a large, fixed object -- say a Supply Depot or Lamp Post -- you can shotgun it 3x under 2 seconds for ~1500 shield damage.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
717
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Posted - 2015.04.05 21:57:00 -
[40] - Quote
It's not important but remember that the shotgun rate of fire in game will be slightly slower than theory as a result of human error, input lag, server lag etc. |
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