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Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 3635	Posted - 2015.03.18 15:11:00 - [1] - Quote If CCP one day patched this in, would you be happy, angry, or ambivalent? Doubling Derpsuit Base HP Doubling Derpsuit Armor/Shield Module HP Doubling ammunition carried (not magazine size) "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy 2841	Posted - 2015.03.18 15:12:00 - [2] - Quote Happy. Though some CoD scrubs would whine their butts off. Plasma Cannon :3 Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Thumb Green The Valyrian Mercenary Army 2159	Posted - 2015.03.18 15:18:00 - [3] - Quote Indifferent Indifferent Happy, I love me some ammo. Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty hipster! Rated [TV-MA]
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5355	Posted - 2015.03.18 15:37:00 - [4] - Quote Assault rifle would be like "please wait for me to reload lol" Usually banned for being too awesome.
General Mosquito Kinsho Swords Caldari State 42	Posted - 2015.03.18 15:44:00 - [5] - Quote Would not like. Although fun for ground shenanigans, it would make it very difficult to dislodge a heavy who decided that killing tanks was his forte. When I say very difficult I mean having to road kill him while eating three lai dais and an IAFG shot, which is not really reasonable given how waffly the hit detection is with regards to running people over. Jumping PLC users would be ..... just no. AV/Tank balance is really close for armor tanks, suddenly doubling infantry HP would really throw it out the window. General Butt Naked - Biomassed The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned Only 9 more alts to go.
LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy 2841	Posted - 2015.03.18 15:46:00 - [6] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Would not like. Although fun for ground shenanigans, it would make it very difficult to dislodge a heavy who decided that killing tanks was his forte. When I say very difficult I mean having to road kill him while eating three lai dais and an IAFG shot, which is not really reasonable given how waffly the hit detection is with regards to running people over. Jumping PLC users would be ..... just no. AV/Tank balance is really close for armor tanks, suddenly doubling infantry HP would really throw it out the window. O.o You're right. Plasma Cannon :3 Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Ku Shala UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE Immortals of War 1308	Posted - 2015.03.18 15:52:00 - [7] - Quote map modifier would be cool - 50% damage + 50% max ammo , low gravity / high gravity (changing speed and jump height) make every match a little different so playing the same maps over and over would have subtle change to make them more interesting *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (CK-0 Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist Superior technology will privale.
Makuta Miserix Nos Nothi 435	Posted - 2015.03.18 15:55:00 - [8] - Quote This scrub wouldn't like it. MD's would be utterly useless then. Plus you know... Think of the new guys. Proud supporter of Scouts. Makuta Miserix the Assault/Logi part time Scout. Private Beta Veteran Dust 514/Starhawk
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game RUST415 1102	Posted - 2015.03.18 17:06:00 - [9] - Quote Longer TTK = player is too bad and he needs extra seconds to aim and fire back. Caldari Hero Loyal To The State Mejt0 Sale List
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens 1208	Posted - 2015.03.18 17:13:00 - [10] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Longer TTK = player is too bad and he needs extra seconds to aim and fire back. Longer TTK= Actual skill and player maneuver is needed. Rather than the twitch like TTK we have now. Making TTK higher= good Having the TTK to near CoD like= Bad The Forums are a special place.

Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 4951	Posted - 2015.03.18 17:17:00 - [11] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: If CCP one day patched this in, would you be happy, angry, or ambivalent? Doubling Derpsuit Base HP Doubling Derpsuit Armor/Shield Module HP Doubling ammunition carried (not magazine size) Double repair and recharge rates? Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Jathniel Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1498	Posted - 2015.03.18 17:39:00 - [12] - Quote If this happens, you have any idea how much more stupid this game would look? Strafing would turn into "two-clip tangos" maybe more. No. Longer TTK does NOT = more skill required. If it did, then running Scout would not be considered 'hard mode' by so many people. True skill is surviving and thriving in a low-TTK environment (or any environment where you can get dropped easily). One would only fuss about that, when one can't do it. Don't call anyone a scrub, just because you happen to hate dying quickly (in CoD, of otherwise). @OP: No. No. Yes. Retired
Flint Beastgood III Dead Man's Game RUST415 1528	Posted - 2015.03.18 18:23:00 - [13] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Happy. Though some CoD scrubs would whine their butts off. Mhmm. I feel this would be great for newer players, it would allow time for backup to arrive. Skills - https://www.facebook.com/notes/flint-beastgood-iii/list-of-trained-skills/416505058477164
Izlare Lenix Pub Stars 1421	Posted - 2015.03.18 18:40:00 - [14] - Quote The lack of aim assist and lower weapon damage during beta produced a much longer TTK than we have now. And fights back then were more satisfying and more fun. Sometimes it took two clips to kill someone and you felt like you earned that kill. Or you managed to get away from several reds instead of insta dying to them. Today's TTK is stupidly easy and boring. Killing someone or dying in a fraction of a second is not enjoyable. It's not satisfying or challenging and it sure as hell is not fun. Twitch shooters never are. The only real truth in history is that it was bloody.
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 1441	Posted - 2015.03.18 18:47:00 - [15] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: If CCP one day patched this in, would you be happy, angry, or ambivalent? Doubling Derpsuit Base HP Doubling Derpsuit Armor/Shield Module HP Doubling ammunition carried (not magazine size) 10/10 post, m8! Reasons: 1. we have lag (my fiber chanel is ideal, but i have it!) 2. we have scrubs, who played 576p. 3. we have scrubs, who played with turbo controllers. 4. we have both. edit: ammunition carried not needed imho, sry. Please support fair play!
Balistyc Farshot The Exemplars 105	Posted - 2015.03.18 18:53:00 - [16] - Quote Jathniel wrote: If this happens, you have any idea how much more stupid this game would look? Strafing would turn into "two-clip tangos" maybe more. No. Longer TTK does NOT = more skill required. If it did, then running Scout would not be considered 'hard mode' by so many people. True skill is surviving and thriving in a low-TTK environment (or any environment where you can get dropped easily). One would only fuss about that, when one can't do it. Don't call anyone a scrub, just because you happen to hate dying quickly (in CoD, of otherwise). @OP: No. No. Yes. He is right. TTK extension would just make REs the only weapon to use. Everyone would get into hand to hand range and knives would become the weapon of choice. Reloading becomes the thing that kills. TTK being low is more skilled mode and would be even more if they took away your radar. Check out COD - BO2 and switch to hardcore mode. 1 shot kills with no radar, if you survive a 2v1 engagement, you had the drop on them or they derped it. Lower TTK means the proto stompers have to be really careful because they will get folded by a mob of noobs if they the noobs surprise them. Twitch translates. Sorry, but twitch will always win in a sense because faster reactions win gun battles. If you can plan a strategy to beat someone from your detriment ed position, then they will implement that same strategy and still win because they started it first. Now to start shotgunning and REing again, everyone will love this play style. Face Palm!
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 22906	Posted - 2015.03.18 19:09:00 - [17] - Quote Irritated. People complaining this is a twitch shooter with instant TTK have no idea what they're talking about. TTK is actually pretty long here, generally. The people who would benefit most from a TTK increase would be protosuit users. Most of the whining for increased TTK I see is from really bad players who are upset it didn't take ten minutes to kill their shiny. Gallente Guide
Michael Arck 6195	Posted - 2015.03.18 19:20:00 - [18] - Quote Would definitely fire up the PS3 and see whats going on. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3245	Posted - 2015.03.18 19:27:00 - [19] - Quote It would be interesting for us infantry possibly, I think vehicle users would hate us for sure. But requiring more than 1 PLC direct hit for most suits!? Damn that would make life a ton harder. "Hey Mr Assault or Mr Heavy, just wait right there while I quickly (but not so quickly [unless commando]) reload this clunky Plasmamajig. Oh and by the way, stand right there while I recharge and shoot you for a second time!" ... Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa? SCV Ready!
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 6730	Posted - 2015.03.18 19:40:00 - [20] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Indifferent Indifferent Happy, I love me some ammo. Pretty much. I've played both twitch shooters, shooters that require two full clips to kill a dude...

Flint Beastgood III Dead Man's Game RUST415 1529	Posted - 2015.03.18 19:43:00 - [21] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: The lack of aim assist and lower weapon damage during beta produced a much longer TTK than we have now. And fights back then were more satisfying and more fun. Sometimes it took two clips to kill someone and you felt like you earned that kill. Or you managed to get away from several reds instead of insta dying to them. Today's TTK is stupidly easy and boring. Killing someone or dying in a fraction of a second is not enjoyable. It's not satisfying or challenging and it sure as hell is not fun. Twitch shooters never are. +1 Skills - https://www.facebook.com/notes/flint-beastgood-iii/list-of-trained-skills/416505058477164
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens 3406	Posted - 2015.03.18 19:46:00 - [22] - Quote Let's go in order: 1. This is a far, far bigger buff to Heavy's than anyone else. Scouts would gain about 200 HP, Logistics 230, Assaults 430, Commandos 650, and Sentinels would get about 915. This is because most of a Sentinel's HP comes from the base. 2. This is a far bigger buff to the smaller Suits. 33/50/66 becomes 66/100/132 for Shield extenders and 85/110/135 goes to 170/220/270 from Armor plates. That means that with 1 complex plate, a Scout would double their EHP. 3. This lowers the need for Nanohives which lowers the reason to have Logistics with them. Double is a bit extreme is all; not a fan. If this were to happen, certain weapons would need a buff. A Flaylock pistol would be nearly unable to kill people. It was buffed to 4 shots from 3 because it was having problems killing people, making it a 33% damage increase. Doubling health would put the Flaylock in a far worse position compared to something like HMG which have more than enough damage to kill people, even with double HP. Snipers would likewise be pushed into obscurity even more. Plasma Cannons, with their one shot, would be next to worthless. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1404	Posted - 2015.03.18 20:11:00 - [23] - Quote I would be thrilled with a 25% base HP buff. A 15% buff to shield extenders. No buff to plates. A 50% buff to rep and reg modules. Removing AIm Assist. Removing Sentinel splash resistance. Add a gotdamn shield rep tool. Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi / Matari Loyalty 7
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game RUST415 410	Posted - 2015.03.18 22:21:00 - [24] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: Mejt0 wrote: Longer TTK = player is too bad and he needs extra seconds to aim and fire back. Longer TTK= Actual skill and player maneuver is needed. Rather than the twitch like TTK we have now. Making TTK higher= good Having the TTK to near CoD like= Bad DUST TTK is no way near CoD TTK. Don't compare things you know nothing about^^ TTK is good now IMO. Hit detection is too broken, an higher TTK would give a huge advantage to every laggers (doing it on purpose or not), and they really don't need that. When the game runs smooth, TTK is perfect^^ Fix the game before trying to add anything else. (Hint: hit detection, lags, glitches,.. you've got some work :) )
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3554	Posted - 2015.03.18 22:26:00 - [25] - Quote Doubling TTK? No, that'd be excessive. But 10 or 20% would be a step in the right direction. Let's not forget that TTK has gone down significantly since the heydey of dust (i.e. Chromosome) due to both the prevalence of proto & damage mods as well as the Warbarge bonus.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2736	Posted - 2015.03.18 22:37:00 - [26] - Quote I'd like an increased TTK, by 200% seems a bit much. Many weapons would have magazine size or heat issues. I'd rather just see the massive gap between Standard and Prototype gear decreased. Weapons are doing it right, where a PRO weapon only does 10% more damage. But suits, equipment, and modules are hugely gapped, with the PRO versions sometimes being 4-5x more powerful a than their Standard ones... Home at Last <3
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens 3408	Posted - 2015.03.18 22:39:00 - [27] - Quote Anyone can frame the game to what requires more 'skill': "Oh, I just turn the corner and I am instantly dead? Yeah, that took a lot of skill from you." "Oh, you just sat there and absorbed all my damage until I was empty. Yeah, that took a lot of skill from you." "Man, I die so fast I better be skilled to survive!" "Man, people die so slow I better be skilled to kill!" Framing gets people nowhere. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3555	Posted - 2015.03.18 22:46:00 - [28] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: I'd rather just see the massive gap between Standard and Prototype gear decreased. Weapons are doing it right, where a PRO weapon only does 10% more damage. But suits, equipment, and modules are hugely gapped, with the PRO versions sometimes being 4-5x more powerful a than their Standard ones... Wow, Fizzer, that's a very insightful post and I hadn't even considered it. But the more I think about it, the more I think you're dead on right. Anyway, thanks for sharing...>Lead
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9444	Posted - 2015.03.18 22:53:00 - [29] - Quote Jathniel wrote: No. Longer TTK does NOT = more skill required. If it did, then running Scout would not be considered 'hard mode' by so many people. You realize your argument makes no sense to the proposition? The high TTK equating to higher skill refers to engaging enemies when you both have proportionately higher TTKs, not using a relatively higher TTK suit than your opponent. Amarr are the good guys Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
Summa Militum Hidd3n Dragon 291	Posted - 2015.03.18 23:11:00 - [30] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: If CCP one day patched this in, would you be happy, angry, or ambivalent? Doubling Derpsuit Base HP Doubling Derpsuit Armor/Shield Module HP Doubling ammunition carried (not magazine size) I would be pissed off that CCP spent time on adjusting TTK instead of fixing SmartDeploy or any other issue in this game that actually matters. If you die in this game as quickly as someone dies in Modern Warfare the fault is most likely not with TTK but instead is with how you are fitting your character (unless you die b/c of a RE, SmartDeploy sabotages you, or any other crap in this game that is out of your hands). I see scouts running around in this game with armor and shield that barely exceeds 300 combined (sometimes I see less) and they for some reason think a shotgun is gonna help them survive. I drop those fools real quick.

Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 750	Posted - 2015.03.18 23:50:00 - [31] - Quote Sad, Sad, and Sad. Balance would be impossible.
Indianna Pwns The Cheshire Cats 37	Posted - 2015.03.19 04:33:00 - [32] - Quote No, Dust already has a higher TTK than practically every other FPS out there.
demonkiller 12 Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 678	Posted - 2015.03.19 06:05:00 - [33] - Quote reduce TTK and all dropsuit health by half, remove aim assist being able to actually ***** aim will be rewarding, people will still be ** why should they be rewarded for being bad at a game?
TerranKnight87 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 269	Posted - 2015.03.19 09:31:00 - [34] - Quote Just break hit detection more and it would be all good lol. No need to touch any numbers. Matchmaking will boost the ps3 capability by 1000% and we can enjoy Dust for years to come......
Vyzion Eyri WarRavens 2568	Posted - 2015.03.19 10:00:00 - [35] - Quote All ya'll want a bit longer TTK, ya'll say you want 10-20% longer to kill each other, and yet a while back we discussed culling a tier of equipment (either militia gone or prototype) to level the playing field, reduce fitting differences between newbies and veterans, which would have the same effect, and yet I seem to remember most people were against the idea. How about it? Remove prototype tier as it is, advanced becomes the new proto, basic becomes the new advanced, militia becomes basic. Suddenly it takes longer to kill you, and you take longer to kill others. Is that not what we want? Oh, but the fitting diversity! Oh the woe. Well we can't have both; simply doubling numbers does nothing to change the fact that newbies time-to-die simply doubles, and they spend more time helplessly plinking at a seemingly invincible proto bear. Ya'll wanna show off your gun game, go organise militia vs. militia PC battles. > Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Jathniel Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1505	Posted - 2015.03.19 20:23:00 - [36] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Jathniel wrote: No. Longer TTK does NOT = more skill required. If it did, then running Scout would not be considered 'hard mode' by so many people. You realize your argument makes no sense to the proposition? The high TTK equating to higher skill refers to engaging enemies when you both have proportionately higher TTKs, not using a relatively higher TTK suit than your opponent. Doesn't matter. The point still stands even if it's Scout vs. Scout. Weapons chew up scout suits the fastest, and that's why most people don't play them anymore, now that cloaking has been nerfed. Because it's too hard and takes skill. If a scout is beating someone with a higher ttk suit in a direct shoot-out, that is an even higher testament to that scout's skill. No matter how you want to look at it. Scout vs. Assault, Scout vs. Sentinel, Scout vs. Scout. Skill doesn't just require good aim (as supporters of higher TTK want to argue). Skill requires good AND fast aim. It doesn't matter how good one thinks he can aim, if he can't do it fast enough, he's going to get rekt.. Higher TTK or not. That said, lower TTK gameplay requires more skill. People asking for higher TTK, are going to get tore up, just as badly as they are now, for the fundamental reason that the people killing them, can and will acquire lethal firing solutions first. Why fool yourself into thinking otherwise? Retired
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1069	Posted - 2015.03.19 20:37:00 - [37] - Quote Jathniel wrote: That said, lower TTK gameplay requires more skill. People asking for higher TTK, are going to get tore up, just as badly as they are now, for the fundamental reason that the people killing them, can and will acquire lethal firing solutions first. Why fool yourself into thinking otherwise? Lower TTK=COD COD=No skill pretty simple equation. No, HP will actually mean something, people who don't stack hp will have a better chance of survival. Low TTK makes the game's fitting meta completely pointless. "What's the point of running an armor stacked x when it dies as fast as a scout" Beyond that you're a scrub, and I can kick your teeth in with basic gear bruuh. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
PLAYSTTION Corrosive Synergy 753	Posted - 2015.03.19 20:42:00 - [38] - Quote Would like to try. CCP could try this for a week then have us tell them what we thought, who knows. Getting rid of aim assist would almost double TTK and reward real skill. Gassault Galogi Galsent `Open Beta Vet - 39 mil sp Director of Corrosive Synergy`
Timtron Victory Horizons' Edge 443	Posted - 2015.03.19 20:42:00 - [39] - Quote I dont think its a bad idea. OHK weapons should just have their damage increased and charge up/reload time increased RATATATAGäó CCP WhoeverGäó Proud Christian Jesus Loves You
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1070	Posted - 2015.03.19 20:45:00 - [40] - Quote PLAYSTTION wrote: Would like to try. CCP could try this for a week then have us tell them what we thought, who knows. Getting rid of aim assist would almost double TTK and reward real skill. If we get rid of hit detection Kb/m needs to be removed as well. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th

Timtron Victory Horizons' Edge 444	Posted - 2015.03.19 20:46:00 - [41] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: I would be thrilled with a 25% base HP buff. A 15% buff to shield extenders. No buff to plates. A 50% buff to rep and reg modules. Removing AIm Assist. Removing Sentinel splash resistance. Add a gotdamn shield rep tool. I think extreme damage profiles need to go too 20% and 15% is too much It should be at most 10% RATATATAGäó CCP WhoeverGäó Proud Christian Jesus Loves You
Kuruld Sengar B.O.S.S.GD 270	Posted - 2015.03.19 20:51:00 - [42] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Jathniel wrote: No. Longer TTK does NOT = more skill required. If it did, then running Scout would not be considered 'hard mode' by so many people. You realize your argument makes no sense to the proposition? The high TTK equating to higher skill refers to engaging enemies when you both have proportionately higher TTKs, not using a relatively higher TTK suit than your opponent. Yeah, seems most people in this thread are forgetting this will affect every suit. What about being able to run past a heavy without getting insta-blapped? Heavies would survive a boundless remote! Nova knives would take more than 1 hit to kill. Rail sniping won't kill any suit that is more than 900hp as of this moment. Reload speed will actually have a noticeable impact on fights. Headshot from a militia sniper would not one shot a proro suit... Sure there would be prolonged dances and it would take longer to kill a target. That just means there will be marginally less of a gap between new and old players since new players will have slightly more time to respond to threats, get to cover, and potentially receive help. At the moment if someone is in danger, there is very rarely any way to save them in time (short of the enemy screwing up). TL;DR: The higher time to kill should emphasize the tactical nature of Dust, and give a bit more contrast between it and shooters like counter strike, CoD, and battlefield. Honestly, the sustained fights we got in ages ago were far more fun than trading instant death like we do now.
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1072	Posted - 2015.03.19 20:53:00 - [43] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Irritated. People complaining this is a twitch shooter with instant TTK have no idea what they're talking about. TTK is actually pretty long here, generally. The people who would benefit most from a TTK increase would be protosuit users. Most of the whining for increased TTK I see is from really bad players who are upset it didn't take ten minutes to kill their shiny. You're an idiot if you honestly believe the only people who would benefit from an increase in TTK are just proto-users. There's a reason why tank and rep modules are the most used high and low slots out there. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
Monty Mole Clone Ametat Security Amarr Empire 285	Posted - 2015.03.19 20:58:00 - [44] - Quote i know a dead camel that would come back to this game if he could use 3g ehp sentinels Dust 514 hurts Go Fabulous or go home
Vicious Minotaur 2212	Posted - 2015.03.19 21:00:00 - [45] - Quote I'd be pissed. If you are going to touch TTK, do it with logic and appropriate numbers. I am not fond of the "hurr durr, lets wildly swing around our [nerf hammer/buff bat]... durrrrrr"-method of balancing. Still, TTK could stand to increase a bit. I am a minotaur. a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
Ghost Kaisar Negative-Feedback 10721	Posted - 2015.03.19 21:16:00 - [46] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: If CCP one day patched this in, would you be happy, angry, or ambivalent? Doubling Derpsuit Base HP Doubling Derpsuit Armor/Shield Module HP Doubling ammunition carried (not magazine size) Don't bother doubling TTK Just remove AA. TTK is now higher for a good 90% of the playerbase. Currently listening to: Max Anarchy OST Old School Scout, watch out for the knives
Indianna Pwns The Cheshire Cats 41	Posted - 2015.03.19 21:35:00 - [47] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: If CCP one day patched this in, would you be happy, angry, or ambivalent? Doubling Derpsuit Base HP Doubling Derpsuit Armor/Shield Module HP Doubling ammunition carried (not magazine size) Don't bother doubling TTK Just remove AA. TTK is now higher for a good 90% of the playerbase. Aim assist is fine as it is very light in dust compared to most console shooters. Aim assist is needed in Dust due to the aiming mechanics being so clunky. Thumbsticks are inherently innacurate for FPS games, it takes a lot of practice with them just to have average aim (in comparison to the precision of a mouse anyway)
Aramis Madrigal Titans of Phoenix 380	Posted - 2015.03.19 22:32:00 - [48] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Irritated. People complaining this is a twitch shooter with instant TTK have no idea what they're talking about. TTK is actually pretty long here, generally. The people who would benefit most from a TTK increase would be protosuit users. Most of the whining for increased TTK I see is from really bad players who are upset it didn't take ten minutes to kill their shiny. I'm inclined to agree. TTK seems just about right. It is possible to turn the tables on someone who gets the drop on you, but it requires good reaction time and positioning (i.e. you are aware of your environment and know where to go for cover when fire comes from an unexpected direction and you can get on target fast). Grossly inflated TTK would reduce the need to seek positional advantages, with superior aim and strafing sufficient to win most engagements. Moreover, it would do little to mitigate the advantage that vets have over newer players. A sound tactical approach is something that anyone can apply, regardless of gun game. If surprise and position don't matter much, raw numbers and aim will win the day. In addition, chance/luck matters less as engagements lengthen (simple model detailed below). -Aramis Imagine combat modeled as a short series of Bernoulli distributed trials, with the ultimate victor being the individual who wins more of these handful of virtual coin flips. Now lets say the our bitter vet has a 70% chance of winning any one of these individual trials and our noob a 30% chance. In a short/moderate TTK scenario, there are perhaps 3-5 such trials (get the drop on a guy, get on target, stay on target, strafe, kill target). With a longer TTK, there are more such trials in each combat, making the outcome more likely to go in favor of the vet. I realize that this is a rather coarse model, but it's probably fairly accurate.
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1072	Posted - 2015.03.19 22:54:00 - [49] - Quote Aramis Madrigal wrote: TTK seems just about right. It is possible to turn the tables on someone who gets the drop on you, but it requires good reaction time and positioning (i.e. you are aware of your environment and know where to go for cover when fire comes from an unexpected direction and you can get on target fast). Grossly inflated TTK would reduce the need to seek positional advantages, with superior aim and strafing sufficient to win most engagements. Moreover, it would do little to mitigate the advantage that vets have over newer players. A sound tactical approach is something that anyone can apply, regardless of gun game. If surprise and position don't matter much, raw numbers and aim will win the day. In addition, chance/luck matters less as engagements lengthen (simple model detailed below). -Aramis Imagine combat modeled as a short series of Bernoulli distributed trials, with the ultimate victor being the individual who wins more of these handful of virtual coin flips. Now lets say the our bitter vet has a 70% chance of winning any one of these individual trials and our noob a 30% chance. In a short/moderate TTK scenario, there are perhaps 3-5 such trials (get the drop on a guy, get on target, stay on target, strafe, kill target). With a longer TTK, there are more such trials in each combat, making the outcome more likely to go in favor of the vet. I realize that this is a rather coarse model, but it's probably fairly accurate. The lacking in TTK as it stands is enough to make tanking and damage stacking the more viable playstyle. Which is awful, when there is much more diversity to be had. E-war is not as viable as tank, biotics are not as viable as tank, no combination of styles is as viable as a playstyle combined with tank. The current TTK does not allow room for any other playstyle to thrive, it's not a matter of basic combat. Tactics are made moot if there is no time before death to execute those tactics, new players cannot compete against vets because the amount of damage output and tank that they carry will not allow it. If TTK was lengthened they'd have more room to retaliate. It's not accurate the community that play the game are not divided by two factions, one being more experienced. It is a spectrum of players with varying playstyles and hours put into the game. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1159	Posted - 2015.03.19 23:35:00 - [50] - Quote Wow.... so many people here think that RNG bullet distribution ending a battle early = skill. Short battles are mostly RNG from your gun. The shorter the conflict the more that RNG means. Therefore Skill = RNG? You people lobbying for short kill times amuse me... really. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.

Jathniel Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1506	Posted - 2015.03.20 04:37:00 - [51] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Wow.... so many people here think that RNG bullet distribution ending a battle early = skill. Short battles are mostly RNG from your gun. The shorter the conflict the more that RNG means. Therefore Skill = RNG? You people lobbying for short kill times amuse me... really. No one is lobbying for short kill times, we're lobbying against unreasonably long ones. When a gun does X amount of damage, and the target has X amount of eHP. Those are direct stats. Which is the complete opposite of RNG. When someone kills another person in this game. It's because, in some way or another, that target was within their field of effect. RNG would be your bullet doing a random amount of damage, hitting a random target around the field, who has a random amount of HP. gustavo acosta wrote: Jathniel wrote: That said, lower TTK gameplay requires more skill. People asking for higher TTK, are going to get tore up, just as badly as they are now, for the fundamental reason that the people killing them, can and will acquire lethal firing solutions first. Why fool yourself into thinking otherwise? Lower TTK=COD COD=No skill pretty simple equation. No, HP will actually mean something, people who don't stack hp will have a better chance of survival. Low TTK makes the game's fitting meta completely pointless. "What's the point of running an armor stacked x when it dies as fast as a scout" Beyond that you're a scrub, and I can kick your teeth in with basic gear bruuh. Argues against low TTK. Says people with lower HP will have a better chance of survival. Retired
JJ'S Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 38	Posted - 2015.03.20 04:43:00 - [52] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Longer TTK = player is too bad and he needs extra seconds to aim and fire back. I see your back... Move crosshair so it lights up red and Aim assist engages.... Hold down trigger.... Easy kill. Doesn't matter what that player is fitted with or who they are... One time, When DUST was fun... Like really fun... and had 15k player peaks... Someone would fire at your back.. Regardless of who it was... And you would have time enough to turn around and defend your ISK investment. You have bought into easy kills that mean almost nothing.... Opposed to DUST when it was fun and Killing another player means you bested them, While having the continuous feeling that your personal skill grows with everytime you play. The average Vet in DUST hasn't felt as if their skill has gotten better in game for years.. Might get some more SP.. or a gun or suit that is FOTM... But personal skill improvements? Has stagnated since the implementation of Aim assist.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1161	Posted - 2015.03.20 04:54:00 - [53] - Quote Jathniel wrote: No one is lobbying for short kill times, we're lobbying against unreasonably long ones. When a gun does X amount of damage, and the target has X amount of eHP. Those are direct stats. Which is the complete opposite of RNG. When someone kills another person in this game. It's because, in some way or another, that target was within their field of effect. RNG would be your bullet doing a random amount of damage, hitting a random target around the field, who has a random amount of HP. Bullet spread is RNG. Heck.. hit detection is also RNG for this game... Also, the combat times from the closed beta were brilliant for fights. You actually felt like you were in a fight, not just slapping someone with a stick of ham and saying, "Tag!". After a 1v1, you felt kind of jittery about the conflict then.... Now.. Blap. Over. Done. Gun has fired. Who did I kill? I don't know. Wasn't important enough to remember. If you want fast kills you need to use short range weapons (such as knives). If you want slower kills, then it should be for ranged weapons. The difference between weapon performance and armor types would be clarified for many people with longer combat bouts. Right now, I can talk to half of the people I play with and they have no idea that guns have damage profiles. Targets drop so fast it's not worth knowing unless it's vs a Tank. Why even have damage profiles for weapons, if the game makes it so that you can't spot the difference between an armor or shield oriented weapon without reading the specialization tips or visiting the forums. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Jathniel Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1506	Posted - 2015.03.20 05:30:00 - [54] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Jathniel wrote: No one is lobbying for short kill times, we're lobbying against unreasonably long ones. When a gun does X amount of damage, and the target has X amount of eHP. Those are direct stats. Which is the complete opposite of RNG. When someone kills another person in this game. It's because, in some way or another, that target was within their field of effect. RNG would be your bullet doing a random amount of damage, hitting a random target around the field, who has a random amount of HP. Bullet spread is RNG. Heck.. hit detection is also RNG for this game... Also, the combat times from the closed beta were brilliant for fights. You actually felt like you were in a fight, not just slapping someone with a stick of ham and saying, "Tag!". After a 1v1, you felt kind of jittery about the conflict then.... Now.. Blap. Over. Done. Gun has fired. Who did I kill? I don't know. Wasn't important enough to remember. If you want fast kills you need to use short range weapons (such as knives). If you want slower kills, then it should be for ranged weapons. The difference between weapon performance and armor types would be clarified for many people with longer combat bouts. Right now, I can talk to half of the people I play with and they have no idea that guns have damage profiles. Targets drop so fast it's not worth knowing unless it's vs a Tank. Why even have damage profiles for weapons, if the game makes it so that you can't spot the difference between an armor or shield oriented weapon without reading the specialization tips or visiting the forums. I take your point. But remember, in closed beta. Everyone hated Sentinels when they were actually capable of 1v1 against a tank. It took 3 or 4 people to take a Sentinel down. (Sentinels were also extremely hard to skill into.) The way to balance TTK, so that the damage profiles matter, would be to reduce the severity of the PROFILES (and global weapon damages by a slightly less percentage); NOT double base eHP as mentioned in the OP. (This has been suggested NUMEROUS times.) Retired
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 527	Posted - 2015.03.20 06:47:00 - [55] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Jathniel wrote: No one is lobbying for short kill times, we're lobbying against unreasonably long ones. When a gun does X amount of damage, and the target has X amount of eHP. Those are direct stats. Which is the complete opposite of RNG. When someone kills another person in this game. It's because, in some way or another, that target was within their field of effect. RNG would be your bullet doing a random amount of damage, hitting a random target around the field, who has a random amount of HP. Bullet spread is RNG. Heck.. hit detection is also RNG for this game... Also, the combat times from the closed beta were brilliant for fights. You actually felt like you were in a fight, not just slapping someone with a stick of ham and saying, "Tag!". After a 1v1, you felt kind of jittery about the conflict then.... Now.. Blap. Over. Done. Gun has fired. Who did I kill? I don't know. Wasn't important enough to remember. If you want fast kills you need to use short range weapons (such as knives). If you want slower kills, then it should be for ranged weapons. The difference between weapon performance and armor types would be clarified for many people with longer combat bouts. Right now, I can talk to half of the people I play with and they have no idea that guns have damage profiles. Targets drop so fast it's not worth knowing unless it's vs a Tank. Why even have damage profiles for weapons, if the game makes it so that you can't spot the difference between an armor or shield oriented weapon without reading the specialization tips or visiting the forums. I take your point. But remember, in closed beta. Everyone hated Sentinels when they were actually capable of 1v1 against a tank. It took 3 or 4 people to take a Sentinel down. (Sentinels were also extremely hard to skill into.) The way to balance TTK, so that the damage profiles matter, would be to reduce the severity of the PROFILES (and global weapon damages by a slightly less percentage); NOT double base eHP as mentioned in the OP. (This has been suggested NUMEROUS times.) I think its already been well established that doubling HP isn't the best direction to take, and I don't think anyone is arguing that it is. In closed beta, heavies were much more difficult to take down quickly. What you aren't taking into account is that heavies also did much less damage, and had a fairly different role. The HMG didn't have insane DPS, short range, and fast overheat like it does now; in beta it was a weapon that did decent damage, had moderate range, and did sustained damage over an extended period. Heavies were meant to be able to eat damage and dish it out consistently against multiple opponents in a sustained engagement. The heavy in beta isn't really comparable to today's insta-kill HMG wielders that barely live longer than a medium frame. I would stay away from modifying damage profiles, mostly because it is a defining factor in Dust and gives different weapon types unique benefits and detriments to fitting them in particular situations. Lowering TTK by 15-25% would make each engagement much more meaningful, which makes sense in a game where each death is a potential financial loss. It would also open each class up to a much more open range of possible balancing factors, a lower TTK is a restriction to the range of viable HP/ewar/rep/speed combinations.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 1106	Posted - 2015.03.20 06:48:00 - [56] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: The lack of aim assist and lower weapon damage during beta produced a much longer TTK than we have now. And fights back then were more satisfying and more fun. Sometimes it took two clips to kill someone and you felt like you earned that kill. Or you managed to get away from several reds instead of insta dying to them. Today's TTK is stupidly easy and boring. Killing someone or dying in a fraction of a second is not enjoyable. It's not satisfying or challenging and it sure as hell is not fun. Twitch shooters never are. This is the truth of the matter. Aim assist has a HUGE influence on balance and TTK in this game, and all you need to do is have a Blue on Blue duel in FW or PC to realize the truth. We could tweak numbers left and right to try and get around what Aim Assist does to the game's nature, or we could just get rid of Aim Assist and get back to the days where bullets didn't magically hit people, movement during duels mattered, and sidearms were the difference between life and death. The major blocking issue to this is the improvement of Hit Detection. Fix that and there's no excuse for AA existing in this game. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3572	Posted - 2015.03.20 07:54:00 - [57] - Quote Aramis Madrigal wrote: Imagine combat modeled as a short series of Bernoulli distributed trials, with the ultimate victor being the individual who wins more of these handful of virtual coin flips. Now lets say the our bitter vet has a 70% chance of winning any one of these individual trials and our noob a 30% chance. In a short/moderate TTK scenario, there are perhaps 3-5 such trials (get the drop on a guy, get on target, stay on target, strafe, kill target). With a longer TTK, there are more such trials in each combat, making the outcome more likely to go in favor of the vet. I realize that this is a rather coarse model, but it's probably fairly accurate. Hmm, that's an interesting idea. However, I think it's inaccurate, in that it's not Bernoulli distribution (coin flip). It's talent-distributed or rear weighted, where the longer the battle goes, the higher likelihood of the better player winning each "flip". That said, I think the result is the same -- longer TTK gives the better skilled player more chances to tip the scale in their favor. TBH, I think it's rather self evident that longer TTK favors gun-game more than positioning. Thoughts?
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3572	Posted - 2015.03.20 07:57:00 - [58] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Izlare Lenix wrote: The lack of aim assist and lower weapon damage during beta produced a much longer TTK than we have now. And fights back then were more satisfying and more fun. Sometimes it took two clips to kill someone and you felt like you earned that kill. Or you managed to get away from several reds instead of insta dying to them. Today's TTK is stupidly easy and boring. Killing someone or dying in a fraction of a second is not enjoyable. It's not satisfying or challenging and it sure as hell is not fun. Twitch shooters never are. This is the truth of the matter. Aim assist has a HUGE influence on balance and TTK in this game, and all you need to do is have a Blue on Blue duel in FW or PC to realize the truth. We could tweak numbers left and right to try and get around what Aim Assist does to the game's nature, or we could just get rid of Aim Assist and get back to the days where bullets didn't magically hit people, movement during duels mattered, and sidearms were the difference between life and death. The major blocking issue to this is the improvement of Hit Detection. Fix that and there's no excuse for AA existing in this game. Except, perhaps, that every single successful console shooter I can think of has had it. Can you name one that doesn't?
Jathniel Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1508	Posted - 2015.03.20 08:06:00 - [59] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: Jathniel wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Jathniel wrote: No one is lobbying for short kill times, we're lobbying against unreasonably long ones. When a gun does X amount of damage, and the target has X amount of eHP. Those are direct stats. Which is the complete opposite of RNG. When someone kills another person in this game. It's because, in some way or another, that target was within their field of effect. RNG would be your bullet doing a random amount of damage, hitting a random target around the field, who has a random amount of HP. Bullet spread is RNG. Heck.. hit detection is also RNG for this game... Also, the combat times from the closed beta were brilliant for fights. You actually felt like you were in a fight, not just slapping someone with a stick of ham and saying, "Tag!". After a 1v1, you felt kind of jittery about the conflict then.... Now.. Blap. Over. Done. Gun has fired. Who did I kill? I don't know. Wasn't important enough to remember. If you want fast kills you need to use short range weapons (such as knives). If you want slower kills, then it should be for ranged weapons. The difference between weapon performance and armor types would be clarified for many people with longer combat bouts. Right now, I can talk to half of the people I play with and they have no idea that guns have damage profiles. Targets drop so fast it's not worth knowing unless it's vs a Tank. Why even have damage profiles for weapons, if the game makes it so that you can't spot the difference between an armor or shield oriented weapon without reading the specialization tips or visiting the forums. I take your point. But remember, in closed beta. Everyone hated Sentinels when they were actually capable of 1v1 against a tank. It took 3 or 4 people to take a Sentinel down. (Sentinels were also extremely hard to skill into.) The way to balance TTK, so that the damage profiles matter, would be to reduce the severity of the PROFILES (and global weapon damages by a slightly less percentage); NOT double base eHP as mentioned in the OP. (This has been suggested NUMEROUS times.) I think its already been well established that doubling HP isn't the best direction to take, and I don't think anyone is arguing that as it is. In closed beta, heavies were much more difficult to take down quickly. What you aren't taking into account is that heavies also did much less damage, and had a fairly different role. The HMG didn't have insane DPS, short range, and fast overheat like it does now; in beta it was a weapon that did decent damage, had moderate range, and did sustained damage over an extended period. Heavies were meant to be able to eat damage and dish it out consistently against multiple opponents in a sustained engagement. The heavy in beta isn't really comparable to today's insta-kill HMG wielders that barely live longer than a medium frame. I would stay away from modifying damage profiles, mostly because it is a defining factor in Dust and gives different weapon types unique benefits and detriments to fitting them in particular situations. Increasing TTK by 15-25% would make each engagement much more meaningful, which makes sense in a game where each death is a potential financial loss. It would also open each class up to a much more open range of possible balancing factors, a lower TTK is a restriction to the range of viable HP/ewar/rep/speed combinations. EDIT: Lowering/Increasing I remember the closed beta Sentinel VERY differently. The HMG shredded everything... Even vehicles didn't escape it's wrath. It would tear down dropships that got too close, and kill HAVs that were unlucky enough to get stuck on terrain. In a matter of seconds. And if they had on damage mods? They would tear down the gates of Heaven itself. No sir, Sentinels were far more deadly in the past. Either way, TTK has been increased with direct eHP buffs, with the latest being assaults. And I am opposed to increases, using eHP buffs because it won't fix other problems. TTK is also very much in the favor of armor players, for a number of different reasons. Damage profiles are problematic mostly on the anti-shield end. I would personally favor a removal of Aim Assist, but AA is one of the strongest factors helping newer players compete (which was one of the reasons for its implementation). I'm going to be honest and say, I don't want to see a TTK increase. Doing that would simply eliminate imbalances we have now, to go right back to the ones we had 3+ years ago. I have great memories of closed beta, but please understand, it was nowhere near as "polished" as the Dust that Rattati and his team have made today. Retired
jenza aranda BetaMax. 3582	Posted - 2015.03.20 10:17:00 - [60] - Quote Back in the day, TTK was a lot lot longer and it was generally liked. Basically all the basic HP of the suits we have today where the Basic level way back when before the Open beta. Advanced and Proto variants of the suits had, in some cases, double the EHP of their basic variants. Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki

Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2206	Posted - 2015.03.20 10:36:00 - [61] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: The lack of aim assist and lower weapon damage during beta produced a much longer TTK than we have now. And fights back then were more satisfying and more fun. Sometimes it took two clips to kill someone and you felt like you earned that kill. Or you managed to get away from several reds instead of insta dying to them. Today's TTK is stupidly easy and boring. Killing someone or dying in a fraction of a second is not enjoyable. It's not satisfying or challenging and it sure as hell is not fun. Twitch shooters never are. Headshots were also much more important, ammo conservation was critical, teamwork was more important and use of cover and aim trumped twitch reflex. Chromosome was the only iteration of this game that ever felt balanced and I want it back. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 1107	Posted - 2015.03.20 10:37:00 - [62] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Izlare Lenix wrote: The lack of aim assist and lower weapon damage during beta produced a much longer TTK than we have now. And fights back then were more satisfying and more fun. Sometimes it took two clips to kill someone and you felt like you earned that kill. Or you managed to get away from several reds instead of insta dying to them. Today's TTK is stupidly easy and boring. Killing someone or dying in a fraction of a second is not enjoyable. It's not satisfying or challenging and it sure as hell is not fun. Twitch shooters never are. This is the truth of the matter. Aim assist has a HUGE influence on balance and TTK in this game, and all you need to do is have a Blue on Blue duel in FW or PC to realize the truth. We could tweak numbers left and right to try and get around what Aim Assist does to the game's nature, or we could just get rid of Aim Assist and get back to the days where bullets didn't magically hit people, movement during duels mattered, and sidearms were the difference between life and death. The major blocking issue to this is the improvement of Hit Detection. Fix that and there's no excuse for AA existing in this game. Except, perhaps, that every single successful console shooter I can think of has had it. Can you name one that doesn't? And before you call me a scrub or otherwise insult my skills ( [:) ), please understand I'm a MKB PC gamer at heart. This is the first console shooter I've played any significant amount of time. Whether or not other console shooters have AA doesn't negate the fact that AA in Dust is the largest SINGLE driving factor behind low TTK. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
Indianna Pwns The Cheshire Cats 42	Posted - 2015.03.20 12:01:00 - [63] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Izlare Lenix wrote: The lack of aim assist and lower weapon damage during beta produced a much longer TTK than we have now. And fights back then were more satisfying and more fun. Sometimes it took two clips to kill someone and you felt like you earned that kill. Or you managed to get away from several reds instead of insta dying to them. Today's TTK is stupidly easy and boring. Killing someone or dying in a fraction of a second is not enjoyable. It's not satisfying or challenging and it sure as hell is not fun. Twitch shooters never are. This is the truth of the matter. Aim assist has a HUGE influence on balance and TTK in this game, and all you need to do is have a Blue on Blue duel in FW or PC to realize the truth. We could tweak numbers left and right to try and get around what Aim Assist does to the game's nature, or we could just get rid of Aim Assist and get back to the days where bullets didn't magically hit people, movement during duels mattered, and sidearms were the difference between life and death. The major blocking issue to this is the improvement of Hit Detection. Fix that and there's no excuse for AA existing in this game. Except, perhaps, that every single successful console shooter I can think of has had it. Can you name one that doesn't? And before you call me a scrub or otherwise insult my skills ( [:) ), please understand I'm a MKB PC gamer at heart. This is the first console shooter I've played any significant amount of time. Whether or not other console shooters have AA doesn't negate the fact that AA in Dust is the largest SINGLE driving factor behind low TTK. Dust does NOT have a low TTK. Its a high health FPS coupled with fast strafe speeds, a high TTK disincentives tactical play as flanking around and getting behind players becomes less rewarding if they can just turn around engage you.
postapo wastelander Corrosive Synergy 1114	Posted - 2015.03.20 12:15:00 - [64] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: If CCP one day patched this in, would you be happy, angry, or ambivalent? Doubling Derpsuit Base HP Doubling Derpsuit Armor/Shield Module HP Doubling ammunition carried (not magazine size) Like in old MAG times. Proper shoot fights. "Sebiestor Hetzer"
Aramis Madrigal Titans of Phoenix 383	Posted - 2015.03.20 14:55:00 - [65] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Aramis Madrigal wrote: Imagine combat modeled as a short series of Bernoulli distributed trials, with the ultimate victor being the individual who wins more of these handful of virtual coin flips. Now lets say the our bitter vet has a 70% chance of winning any one of these individual trials and our noob a 30% chance. In a short/moderate TTK scenario, there are perhaps 3-5 such trials (get the drop on a guy, get on target, stay on target, strafe, kill target). With a longer TTK, there are more such trials in each combat, making the outcome more likely to go in favor of the vet. I realize that this is a rather coarse model, but it's probably fairly accurate. Hmm, that's an interesting idea. However, I think it's inaccurate, in that it's not Bernoulli distribution (coin flip). It's talent-distributed or rear weighted, where the longer the battle goes, the higher likelihood of the better player winning each "flip". That said, I think the result is the same -- longer TTK gives the better skilled player more chances to tip the scale in their favor. TBH, I think it's rather self evident that longer TTK favors gun-game more than positioning. Thoughts? No arguments from me :). I was just going for a simple framework to support the notion that longer TTK favors the more skilled player to a greater degree and diminishes the importance of the starting conditions. Regarding other comments around the homogeneity of fittings vis-a-vis relatively short TTK, I strongly disagree. Biotics and EWAR are best at influencing the starting conditions of a fight (or exiting an engagement). With long TTK, where starting conditions don't matter as much, the ability to take and dish out damage are most important. This is likely to compress most fittings into some balance of tank and damage. At present, you still see a fairly large diversity of fittings. The FOTM Min assault is very dangerous precisely because the base stats and slot layout allow for fittings that can do a bit of everything. A min assault with a damage mod, shield extenders, a kin cat, a profile damp, a ferroscale and a reactive is far more dangerous than one fitted exclusively with tank and damage. OHK oriented scouts, jumpers of various kinds and heavy spam are further indicative of the presence of a diversity of fittings. Small modifications to TTK may be in order, but I'm not in favor of moving to a drastically longer TTK. -Aramis p.s. I don't have much to say about AA as I play with a M/KB
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7682	Posted - 2015.03.20 14:57:00 - [66] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: If CCP one day patched this in, would you be happy, angry, or ambivalent? Doubling Derpsuit Base HP Doubling Derpsuit Armor/Shield Module HP Doubling ammunition carried (not magazine size) Hate. All the hate. Why? Sentinels. And "gun game" people cite is nothing more than the strafe wiggle dance that allows people to bypass hit detection. It's not useful to the game until everyone can reliably hit their targets consistently. AV
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 1108	Posted - 2015.03.21 00:33:00 - [67] - Quote Indianna Pwns wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Izlare Lenix wrote: The lack of aim assist and lower weapon damage during beta produced a much longer TTK than we have now. And fights back then were more satisfying and more fun. Sometimes it took two clips to kill someone and you felt like you earned that kill. Or you managed to get away from several reds instead of insta dying to them. Today's TTK is stupidly easy and boring. Killing someone or dying in a fraction of a second is not enjoyable. It's not satisfying or challenging and it sure as hell is not fun. Twitch shooters never are. This is the truth of the matter. Aim assist has a HUGE influence on balance and TTK in this game, and all you need to do is have a Blue on Blue duel in FW or PC to realize the truth. We could tweak numbers left and right to try and get around what Aim Assist does to the game's nature, or we could just get rid of Aim Assist and get back to the days where bullets didn't magically hit people, movement during duels mattered, and sidearms were the difference between life and death. The major blocking issue to this is the improvement of Hit Detection. Fix that and there's no excuse for AA existing in this game. Except, perhaps, that every single successful console shooter I can think of has had it. Can you name one that doesn't? And before you call me a scrub or otherwise insult my skills ( [:) ), please understand I'm a MKB PC gamer at heart. This is the first console shooter I've played any significant amount of time. Whether or not other console shooters have AA doesn't negate the fact that AA in Dust is the largest SINGLE driving factor behind low TTK. Dust does NOT have a low TTK. Its a high health FPS coupled with fast strafe speeds, a high TTK disincentives tactical play as flanking around and getting behind players becomes less rewarding if they can just turn around engage you. If you think Dust has a high TTK and fast movement, you probably don't have much FPS experience. On the full spectrum of shooters, Dust is a slow gank-fest. It isn't the slowest, gankiest shooter, but it is way more in that end of the spectrum than "Arena" style shooters. The problem with slow gank fests("Tactical Shooters") is that positioning and map control become much stronger deciding factors. There's very little wiggle room for reflexes, aim, and CQC tactics to turn the tide of an engagement. The first one to press L1+R1 usually wins. Shooters with fast movement and higher TTKs require both map control AND gungame, and I argue that this makes for a richer experience by varying the ways in which one can engage an opponent. As it stands, Dust (and games like it) are throwing out a good portion of what made the FPS a staple in gaming. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet General Tso's Alliance 189	Posted - 2015.03.21 00:45:00 - [68] - Quote Happy. I think mercs die far too quickly as is.
JJ'S Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 53	Posted - 2015.03.21 04:06:00 - [69] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Izlare Lenix wrote: The lack of aim assist and lower weapon damage during beta produced a much longer TTK than we have now. And fights back then were more satisfying and more fun. Sometimes it took two clips to kill someone and you felt like you earned that kill. Or you managed to get away from several reds instead of insta dying to them. Today's TTK is stupidly easy and boring. Killing someone or dying in a fraction of a second is not enjoyable. It's not satisfying or challenging and it sure as hell is not fun. Twitch shooters never are. This is the truth of the matter. Aim assist has a HUGE influence on balance and TTK in this game, and all you need to do is have a Blue on Blue duel in FW or PC to realize the truth. We could tweak numbers left and right to try and get around what Aim Assist does to the game's nature, or we could just get rid of Aim Assist and get back to the days where bullets didn't magically hit people, movement during duels mattered, and sidearms were the difference between life and death. The major blocking issue to this is the improvement of Hit Detection. Fix that and there's no excuse for AA existing in this game. Except, perhaps, that every single successful console shooter I can think of has had it. Can you name one that doesn't? And before you call me a scrub or otherwise insult my skills ( [:) ), please understand I'm a MKB PC gamer at heart. This is the first console shooter I've played any significant amount of time. CS:GO - No Aim assist.. Mouse and keyboard support for console versions. Kilzone:Shadowfall - No aim assist. Extremely competitive playerbase. Mag - Had no aim assist. Battlefield 3 - Had no Aim assist for the start of the game cycle.. But had massive hit detection issues due to poor net code.. After 4 development cycles to try and fix hit detection, they implemented Aim assist as it's band-aid. This largely killed competitive Battlefield... Mass exodus of their talented FPS players... DUST was very lucky to pick up some of these players.. Soccom - had no aim assist. Unreal Tournament - Had no aim assist for competitve game modes. Tournaments and Competitive game modes had Aim assist disabled. GTA 5... Entire Lobbies in GTA have Aim assist disabled as a main setting. Competitive GTA in Deathmatches and crew battles has a Strict Aim assist disabled. And that is a game that has built in mechanics where you can take cover.. peak around a corner.. even stick your gun out and fire... The worst part of DUST and aim assist is loosing personal assets with each death... Destiny, GTA, CoD... Dieing isn't a huge deal in the big picture. There are tons of FPS games without aim assist. But every FPS game with Aim assist competes directly with Battlefield and CoD franchises.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1169	Posted - 2015.03.21 08:18:00 - [70] - Quote Indianna Pwns wrote: Dust does NOT have a low TTK. Its a high health FPS coupled with fast strafe speeds, a high TTK disincentives tactical play as flanking around and getting behind players becomes less rewarding if they can just turn around engage you. No. this is not a "high health shooter". Not even close. You said car, and pointed at a barn. Hawken is a "High health shooter". Halo is a "Low Health Shooter" CoD is a "No Health Shooter" Ever play Hawken? You should. You'd realize how crap your entire statement is regarding tactics and engagement. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.

KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 1110	Posted - 2015.03.22 05:23:00 - [71] - Quote JJ'S wrote: ... The worst part of DUST and aim assist is loosing personal assets with each death... Destiny, GTA, CoD... Dieing isn't a huge deal ... That's what irks me too. You skill up, get this bad ass suit, and it gets melted in a second. On top of that, it's a fricken algorithm doing the melting. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2721	Posted - 2015.03.22 05:28:00 - [72] - Quote TTK is pretty long already, because the hit detection sucks. So if CCP decided to patch this in they should fix the crappy hit detection first. Also lags and the 30 fps limitation. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Kuruld Sengar G.L.O.R.Y General Tso's Alliance 272	Posted - 2015.03.22 05:33:00 - [73] - Quote broken record SSD fixes the lag. Completely. Seriously, you should try one.
Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 2340	Posted - 2015.03.22 05:51:00 - [74] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Longer TTK = player is too bad and he needs extra seconds to aim and fire back. This is just patently untrue. Low time to kill is way better for bad players because then they don't have to try hard and commit to kill somebody. A few stray hipfire bullets and they'll get a kill. Why do you think Call of Duty has a low TTK? Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
demonkiller 12 Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 683	Posted - 2015.04.01 06:23:00 - [75] - Quote Kuruld Sengar wrote: broken record SSD fixes the lag. Completely. Seriously, you should try one. most of it


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