Dude, proto suits are meant for PC, not pub matches. If you could lose a couple proto suits (which is only possible as a logi) and still profit, then why would anyone play PC. Here's a tip, don't try to proto stomp if you'd don't got the wallet or skill for it.

My main protosuit costs just over 186,000 ISK. If I lose 1 proto clone in an Ambush match I am most likely going to cut even in terms of ISK earned and ISK lost. If I lose 2 suits 99% of the time I am going negative on ISK.

For me the average ISK payout in an Ambush match is around 200,000 ISK (a number of times I have earned 400,000-500,000+ ISK but I don't understand how that happens).

We need to have the ISK payout substantially increased so that more people can afford to run proto suits and so that solo players don't get screwed over for using protosuits to help their team win.

If I use a protosuit and win an Ambush match in first place with a KDR of 20/3 I should not be punished for it. Right now I am getting punished if I perform that well by not being rewarded anywhere close to the amount of ISK I invest into the match.

Don't you ******* tell me what protosuits are used for. You're going to tell me it is ok for me to get protostomped in a public match but it is not OK for me to use a protosuit in a public match? Why the **** am I able to buy protosuits with ISK if what you are saying is true when PC matches do not reward ISK?

And don't you ******* talk to me about skill you little *****. You don't ******* know me. 90% of the time I am placing in the top spots of the match leaderboard and this is while I am running solo (I have yet to run with a squad in this game).

Don't you ******* tell me what protosuits are used for. You're going to tell me it is ok for me to get protostomped in a public match but it is not OK for me to use a protosuit in a public match? Why the **** am I able to buy protosuits with ISK if what you are saying is true when PC matches do not reward ISK?

And don't you ******* talk to me about skill you little *****. You don't ******* know me. 90% of the time I am placing in the top spots of the match leaderboard and this is while I am running solo (I have yet to run with a squad in this game).

Don't you ******* tell me what protosuits are used for. You're going to tell me it is ok for me to get protostomped in a public match but it is not OK for me to use a protosuit in a public match? Why the **** am I able to buy protosuits with ISK if what you are saying is true when PC matches do not reward ISK?

And don't you ******* talk to me about skill you little *****. You don't ******* know me. 90% of the time I am placing in the top spots of the match leaderboard and this is while I am running solo (I have yet to run with a squad in this game).

Proto stomper have the ISK to do so, and usually the skill. Not saying it is, never did. But proto stomping is a completely different issue. And PC's do give millions of ISK, only if you win.

The new payout cap is too low. Probably why the team with most BRIGADIER wins, unlimited proto.

The payout amount also doesn't make sense. One time I got over 500,000 ISK in a Domination match that I lost where I came in something like 5th or 6th place on my team but when I come in first place on a Domination match I win I only average just over 300,000 ISK.

I can't make sense of this ridiculousness.

Payout is largely based off of how much ISK the other team loses. If the other team has a ton of losses, your payout will be larger. While placement on the leaderboards has some effect in ISK payouts, Warpoints are typically more tied to SP generation than it is to ISK payouts.

In other words, the more you kill and the more money the other team spends, the more money your team will make overall.

Vehicles in Pubs can be hit or miss, I've had games where I've lost a few million vs a group of tanks, and I've had games where I've gained over a million because of so many vehicles being destroyed. Overall even as a vehicle specialist I think the payouts aren't bad it's difficult to budget your own money according to your own skill level. I'm not saying your a scrub or your bad at the game, but you do have to realize and make a budget for yourself for every so many games.

Do you know if there is a set amount for when someone kills someone using a BPO? I would hate to think we get nothing for taking those people out.

I have a budget going to keep my proto suits stocked but it is still annoying getting so little payouts. I have 1 suit that runs me around 35,000 ISK that I run in Ambush to profit enough so I am not constantly bankrupt.

You could do 1 thing, but you can't be too worried about your K/D ratio... Just go 1 week running nothing but free or near free suits in ambush... Doing this you should have a fair amount of ISK just don't go too crazy on the spending...

You could do 1 thing, but you can't be too worried about your K/D ratio... Just go 1 week running nothing but free or near free suits in ambush... Doing this you should have a fair amount of ISK just don't go too crazy on the spending...

Faction Warfare matches only reward you millions of ISK if your corporation rewards that to you for winning. Whenever I win Faction Warfare matches I get a solid amount of Loyalty Points but I am limited as to what I can purchase with that plus Factional Warfare matches take a long ass time to get into.

Let me use an Ambush Match I just played a little bit ago to give you an example of the ISK payout pissing me off. I won an Ambush match and placed 1st on my team, I had 300 WP more than the person in 2nd place. I went 8 and 1 in this match. My payout was 230,000 ISK. When I subtract the 185,000 ISK for the 1 clone I lost I only profit 45,000 ISK. It would take 4 matches like this for me to earn enough ISK to increase my inventory for the proto class I used by 1. That is ridiculous. For someone coming in first place on a winning team the ISK payout should be much higher.

If anything CCP should let us know how ISK payout is determined. If I knew that I could focus on doing things that would give me a much higher ISK payout. I have had some matches where I have earned 400-500,000+ ISK and I have no idea how. If I could get 400-500,000 ISK each time I won an Ambush match in first place I would be happy with the ISK situation. As it is right now I think it sucks.

Now you're talking about faction warfare? You shouldn't ever gain ISK from that! PC is planetary conquest scrub. Also, ISK gain is based on what the enemy team loses. Here's an example: I kill 5 sicas in a match while tanking and make 350k. The next I kill 3 proto gunnlogis and make 500k with a mix of other LAV kills. It's all based on what you kill. Also you shouldn't make slot from an ambush. You make more from skirmish or don because usually over 100 clones are killed. Payout is all based on biomass and what people lose.

My main protosuit costs just over 186,000 ISK. If I lose 1 proto clone in an Ambush match I am most likely going to cut even in terms of ISK earned and ISK lost. If I lose 2 suits 99% of the time I am going negative on ISK.

For me the average ISK payout in an Ambush match is around 200,000 ISK (a number of times I have earned 400,000-500,000+ ISK but I don't understand how that happens).

We need to have the ISK payout substantially increased so that more people can afford to run proto suits and so that solo players don't get screwed over for using protosuits to help their team win.

If I use a protosuit and win an Ambush match in first place with a KDR of 20/3 I should not be punished for it. Right now I am getting punished if I perform that well by not being rewarded anywhere close to the amount of ISK I invest into the match.

I wholly disagree with that statement. It's damn easy to make a lot of ISK by being an active and contributing member of the FW cycle, especially in EVE, though not so much so in Dust due to lack of fleshed out mechanics and a non free market set up.

I'd suggest that it should be very viable to make ISK from FW by selling on unique assets that are only attainable in FW, essentially converting LP to ISK as one might do in EVE through the purchase of LP ships and the sale of them on local markets.

Also to be fair it was arguably a much more competitive and enjoyable time for all FW players when LP was non-existant and players could subsist entirely via FW combat as well as prosper.

Git Gud Scrub. Don't run what you can't afford.

Wow, with the exception of some posters like True Adamance, I keep seeing a lot of the same ole' short-perceptions and classic conclusions about "how Dust should be played to survive" in these threads.
Hasn't he game's been around long enough by now for some of those granny ideas to be challenged or tossed out?

--Gambling without going bankrupt is part of the core of this game---it is NOT simply a fps (the New Eden salesmen just sold it that way to make you THINK it was).

--If you're saving your Proto-suits "just for PC matches", because you can't bear RISKING one, you're not a confident Dust player.

--If your diehard routine for raising ISK is to put on a cheap fit suit and slave in the Pub Skirmishes for standard payouts, you are playing Dust TIMIDLY.

--If you don't see the branches of opportunity opening that exist to make build ISK even in Factional Warfare, just because you're not being spoon-fed an Isk paycheck like in the Pub matches, then, umm, you're not getting very GOOD at playing Dust.

My advice to you Summa is, don't request any ISK payout increases,GǪ because you sound like a player who really very soon won't need the ISK help.
You'r interested in employing Proto attire, but you're VERY conscious that even proto comes will come with regular ISK loss.
You're regularly using a $$-price fit-out in your matches, instead of trying to maximize profit by using a Lower-price suit.
You're viewing the Pub Matches as being just as worthy of prizes, ISK-risk, and Proto-use as any of the worshipped "PC" battles.

In other words, you've recognized a lot more aspects of the financial-managment component of this game, than MOST players I read trying to discuss their so called knowledge of Dust.

The game is deliberately intended to be a High-Risk of your wallet--vs--Shaky-but-Seductive Offer of Gain. Only the players who pick up and decipher that financial RubiK's Cube can call themselves true Dust-Masters.

I get the impression Summa, that you are well on your way to joining the Masters.

In EVE, faction warfare only gives LP which is used with ISK to purchase faction gear. So it's working as intended and as it should. Why should Dust FW work differently than EVE FW, you supposed to risk what you choose to gain LP. Each race has weapons and equipment better than anything you can buy with ISK. Agreeing with who I quoted, and I do sell salvage of LP gear. Wish you could make more off it though.

I think I was not clear. In EVE one early LP by completing plexes ranging from Novice to Large and that is how one primarily earns their income within the FW zone, however one can also earn ISK by destroying the Rats that spawn on the plex and looting their wrecks providing players with small bounties as well as loot.

Moreover since FW is a PvP active area one also earns LP and ISK from killing War Targets [henceforth WT] based on the bounty system and form their loot.

Additionally players can undertake faction specific missions for LP and can loot ISK from them as well as while in system waiting for plexes to spawn belt rat for ISK and loot.

FW has numerous opportunities to earn ISK on a minor level however where ISK making in FW really comes in is during the slog from being at a lower tier up through into T 2-4 the raw influx of LP leads to the FWers ability to exchange for Faction Shipes en masse to be sold on open markets of ISK.

I believe this sort of thing can be applied to Dust 514 as well with the advent of player trading. If players were forced to sign up to one FW at a time I believe a fledgling market for unique LP goods like the dropsuits and nanite injectors, etc would be a very profitable means of allowing PC players to get the best content while sustaining a healthy and competitive FW player base.

E.G -

FW Players sign on to their chose faction and can only play for them/their allies [2/4 factions for arguments sake] and can earn LP to be used to purchase specific unique goods [skins, slight variations of weapons/modules] and sell those to PC players who may not have access to these modules due to their own PC matches or FW constraints supporting the FW system and spreading out the build up of wealth from PC.

To OP: the rewards and pricing in this game reflect the initial design principles of risk vs. reward and in isolation are fairly sound.
However through various ill thought out mechanics and choices on CCPs part (eg. district locking, asset buybacks at the end of beta, alt farming etc.) the curent isk distribution has skewed this early principle well beyond the fairness it was supposed to create.

Many people can field what they want when they want and many can't - don't listen to those who tell you you can't run proto in pubs, that is your choice alone. But match payouts are unlikely to change as you requested and I don't think they should either.

So you are left with the one truism the has been constant throughout new eden - adapt or die.

Suggestions:
1. Run a cheaper fit - if you're going 20/2 it sounds like you would do ok in adv or even basic.
2. Spend some cash - pick up a combat pack for -ú4 (or whatever it costs in your currency) that gives you 400 suits adv and proto plus 400 weapons and modules galore. That should give you enough to earn 20 million over a few weeks, buy one a month for 3 months and you'll have isk enough for the next 6 months.
3. Beg
4. Borrow
5. Steal
6. Ring in PC
7. Sell assets
8. Run in a squad with decent logis to keep you alive

Whilst I have some sympathy that you can't afford to run what some can though being in the right place at the right time, it's like what others have said you are a small business and you have to live within your means - reduce your living cost or increase your means.

And don't you ******* talk to me about skill you little *****. You don't ******* know me. 90% of the time I am placing in the top spots of the match leaderboard and this is while I am running solo (I have yet to run with a squad in this game).

Well, 'adequately compensated' is entirely a subjective concept isn't it....

What you consider adequate and what the game designers consider adequate are obviously different. You obviously consider 'enough of a payout to run proto all the time' as adequate. It appears that CCP doesn't consider enough isk to run proto all the time to be 'adequate.' It appears that they consider enough ISK to run ADV all the time to be 'adequate.'

You are just going to have to accept the fact that CCP doesn't want 24/7 proto and adjust your ISK expenditure to compensate. Either run ADV all the time (the payouts are well balanced for maintaining ADV gear without isk profit or loss) or run STD sometimes and Proto other times to keep your bank book at neutral.

(in the case of constant pub matches of course)

THEN there are other ways to earn isk outside of Pub rewards to boot.

personally I believe running ADV (as defined by running an ADV suit with ADV mods and an ADV weapons) should be profitable.

Running prototype in pubs should just be a epeen wallet wound unless you're utterly sh*t-hot. In which case you deserve to profit. But people like me will hunt you with the cheesiest death inducing weapons to make sure your profit margin is minimal.