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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17591
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Posted - 2015.03.11 22:10:00 -
[31] - Quote
MRBH1997 wrote:True Adamance wrote:MRBH1997 wrote:
Now you're talking about faction warfare? You shouldn't ever gain ISK from that! PC is planetary conquest scrub. Also, ISK gain is based on what the enemy team loses. Here's an example: I kill 5 sicas in a match while tanking and make 350k. The next I kill 3 proto gunnlogis and make 500k with a mix of other LAV kills. It's all based on what you kill. Also you shouldn't make slot from an ambush. You make more from skirmish or don because usually over 100 clones are killed. Payout is all based on biomass and what people lose.
I wholly disagree with that statement. It's damn easy to make a lot of ISK by being an active and contributing member of the FW cycle, especially in EVE, though not so much so in Dust due to lack of fleshed out mechanics and a non free market set up. I'd suggest that it should be very viable to make ISK from FW by selling on unique assets that are only attainable in FW, essentially converting LP to ISK as one might do in EVE through the purchase of LP ships and the sale of them on local markets. Also to be fair it was arguably a much more competitive and enjoyable time for all FW players when LP was non-existant and players could subsist entirely via FW combat as well as prosper. In EVE, faction warfare only gives LP which is used with ISK to purchase faction gear. So it's working as intended and as it should. Why should Dust FW work differently than EVE FW, you supposed to risk what you choose to gain LP. Each race has weapons and equipment better than anything you can buy with ISK. Agreeing with who I quoted, and I do sell salvage of LP gear. Wish you could make more off it though.
I think I was not clear. In EVE one early LP by completing plexes ranging from Novice to Large and that is how one primarily earns their income within the FW zone, however one can also earn ISK by destroying the Rats that spawn on the plex and looting their wrecks providing players with small bounties as well as loot.
Moreover since FW is a PvP active area one also earns LP and ISK from killing War Targets [henceforth WT] based on the bounty system and form their loot.
Additionally players can undertake faction specific missions for LP and can loot ISK from them as well as while in system waiting for plexes to spawn belt rat for ISK and loot.
FW has numerous opportunities to earn ISK on a minor level however where ISK making in FW really comes in is during the slog from being at a lower tier up through into T 2-4 the raw influx of LP leads to the FWers ability to exchange for Faction Shipes en masse to be sold on open markets of ISK.
I believe this sort of thing can be applied to Dust 514 as well with the advent of player trading. If players were forced to sign up to one FW at a time I believe a fledgling market for unique LP goods like the dropsuits and nanite injectors, etc would be a very profitable means of allowing PC players to get the best content while sustaining a healthy and competitive FW player base.
E.G -
FW Players sign on to their chose faction and can only play for them/their allies [2/4 factions for arguments sake] and can earn LP to be used to purchase specific unique goods [skins, slight variations of weapons/modules] and sell those to PC players who may not have access to these modules due to their own PC matches or FW constraints supporting the FW system and spreading out the build up of wealth from PC.
"Hell he's even agreed with me in the past but insisted I'm still wrong. It's totes adorbs." Pokey Dravon on Spkr4thDead
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MRBH1997
Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION
185
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:05:00 -
[32] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:MRBH1997 wrote:True Adamance wrote:MRBH1997 wrote:
Now you're talking about faction warfare? You shouldn't ever gain ISK from that! PC is planetary conquest scrub. Also, ISK gain is based on what the enemy team loses. Here's an example: I kill 5 sicas in a match while tanking and make 350k. The next I kill 3 proto gunnlogis and make 500k with a mix of other LAV kills. It's all based on what you kill. Also you shouldn't make slot from an ambush. You make more from skirmish or don because usually over 100 clones are killed. Payout is all based on biomass and what people lose.
I wholly disagree with that statement. It's damn easy to make a lot of ISK by being an active and contributing member of the FW cycle, especially in EVE, though not so much so in Dust due to lack of fleshed out mechanics and a non free market set up. I'd suggest that it should be very viable to make ISK from FW by selling on unique assets that are only attainable in FW, essentially converting LP to ISK as one might do in EVE through the purchase of LP ships and the sale of them on local markets. Also to be fair it was arguably a much more competitive and enjoyable time for all FW players when LP was non-existant and players could subsist entirely via FW combat as well as prosper. In EVE, faction warfare only gives LP which is used with ISK to purchase faction gear. So it's working as intended and as it should. Why should Dust FW work differently than EVE FW, you supposed to risk what you choose to gain LP. Each race has weapons and equipment better than anything you can buy with ISK. Agreeing with who I quoted, and I do sell salvage of LP gear. Wish you could make more off it though. I think I was not clear. In EVE one early LP by completing plexes ranging from Novice to Large and that is how one primarily earns their income within the FW zone, however one can also earn ISK by destroying the Rats that spawn on the plex and looting their wrecks providing players with small bounties as well as loot. Moreover since FW is a PvP active area one also earns LP and ISK from killing War Targets [henceforth WT] based on the bounty system and form their loot. Additionally players can undertake faction specific missions for LP and can loot ISK from them as well as while in system waiting for plexes to spawn belt rat for ISK and loot. FW has numerous opportunities to earn ISK on a minor level however where ISK making in FW really comes in is during the slog from being at a lower tier up through into T 2-4 the raw influx of LP leads to the FWers ability to exchange for Faction Shipes en masse to be sold on open markets of ISK. I believe this sort of thing can be applied to Dust 514 as well with the advent of player trading. If players were forced to sign up to one FW at a time I believe a fledgling market for unique LP goods like the dropsuits and nanite injectors, etc would be a very profitable means of allowing PC players to get the best content while sustaining a healthy and competitive FW player base. E.G - FW Players sign on to their chose faction and can only play for them/their allies [2/4 factions for arguments sake] and can earn LP to be used to purchase specific unique goods [skins, slight variations of weapons/modules] and sell those to PC players who may not have access to these modules due to their own PC matches or FW constraints supporting the FW system and spreading out the build up of wealth from PC.
I see what you mean and I agree that those additions should be added. That would not only make FW more tasteful but make dust more linked with EVE as it should be. But until they expand on FW, it doesn't benefit more than LP for better faction gear.
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Foo Fighting
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
204
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:32:00 -
[33] - Quote
To OP: the rewards and pricing in this game reflect the initial design principles of risk vs. reward and in isolation are fairly sound. However through various ill thought out mechanics and choices on CCPs part (eg. district locking, asset buybacks at the end of beta, alt farming etc.) the curent isk distribution has skewed this early principle well beyond the fairness it was supposed to create.
Many people can field what they want when they want and many can't - don't listen to those who tell you you can't run proto in pubs, that is your choice alone. But match payouts are unlikely to change as you requested and I don't think they should either.
So you are left with the one truism the has been constant throughout new eden - adapt or die.
Suggestions: 1. Run a cheaper fit - if you're going 20/2 it sounds like you would do ok in adv or even basic. 2. Spend some cash - pick up a combat pack for -ú4 (or whatever it costs in your currency) that gives you 400 suits adv and proto plus 400 weapons and modules galore. That should give you enough to earn 20 million over a few weeks, buy one a month for 3 months and you'll have isk enough for the next 6 months. 3. Beg 4. Borrow 5. Steal 6. Ring in PC 7. Sell assets 8. Run in a squad with decent logis to keep you alive
Whilst I have some sympathy that you can't afford to run what some can though being in the right place at the right time, it's like what others have said you are a small business and you have to live within your means - reduce your living cost or increase your means.
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maluble
Art.of.Death
219
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:57:00 -
[34] - Quote
Either troll post or Op is extremely stupid. |
Summa Militum
Hidd3n Dragon
244
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:26:00 -
[35] - Quote
Foo Fighting wrote:To OP: the rewards and pricing in this game reflect the initial design principles of risk vs. reward and in isolation are fairly sound. However through various ill thought out mechanics and choices on CCPs part (eg. district locking, asset buybacks at the end of beta, alt farming etc.) the curent isk distribution has skewed this early principle well beyond the fairness it was supposed to create.
Many people can field what they want when they want and many can't - don't listen to those who tell you you can't run proto in pubs, that is your choice alone. But match payouts are unlikely to change as you requested and I don't think they should either.
So you are left with the one truism the has been constant throughout new eden - adapt or die.
Suggestions: 1. Run a cheaper fit - if you're going 20/2 it sounds like you would do ok in adv or even basic. 2. Spend some cash - pick up a combat pack for -ú4 (or whatever it costs in your currency) that gives you 400 suits adv and proto plus 400 weapons and modules galore. That should give you enough to earn 20 million over a few weeks, buy one a month for 3 months and you'll have isk enough for the next 6 months. 3. Beg 4. Borrow 5. Steal 6. Ring in PC 7. Sell assets 8. Run in a squad with decent logis to keep you alive
Whilst I have some sympathy that you can't afford to run what some can though being in the right place at the right time, it's like what others have said you are a small business and you have to live within your means - reduce your living cost or increase your means.
You list 8 things for me to do to increase my ISK amount (3 of which were beg, borrow, and steal) but you can't agree that the person in first place on the winning team should be adequately compensated for their efforts? |
Imp Smash
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
735
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Posted - 2015.03.12 02:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Well, 'adequately compensated' is entirely a subjective concept isn't it....
What you consider adequate and what the game designers consider adequate are obviously different. You obviously consider 'enough of a payout to run proto all the time' as adequate. It appears that CCP doesn't consider enough isk to run proto all the time to be 'adequate.' It appears that they consider enough ISK to run ADV all the time to be 'adequate.'
You are just going to have to accept the fact that CCP doesn't want 24/7 proto and adjust your ISK expenditure to compensate. Either run ADV all the time (the payouts are well balanced for maintaining ADV gear without isk profit or loss) or run STD sometimes and Proto other times to keep your bank book at neutral.
(in the case of constant pub matches of course)
THEN there are other ways to earn isk outside of Pub rewards to boot.
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Thor Odinson42
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
6232
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Posted - 2015.03.12 02:46:00 -
[37] - Quote
It should be raised to make ADV suits more viable for most.
At least 80% of Dust can't profit in a 40K suit. |
Imp Smash
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
735
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Posted - 2015.03.12 03:04:00 -
[38] - Quote
I think that's the point though, Thor. This is all just my guess, but it feels like you aren't supposed to profit in ADV, you are supposed to break even assuming average level of skill. Also, 'running advanced gear' seems to be defined by everyone differently. For example, a 40k 'ADV'. A 40K adv suit is running complex mods. Drop those to enhanced mods and the suit goes down in price significantly. (except for logis -- but they get extra isk due to WP generation so compensate.) |
Foo Fighting
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
206
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Posted - 2015.03.12 08:15:00 -
[39] - Quote
[/quote]
You list 8 things for me to do to increase my ISK amount (3 of which were beg, borrow, and steal) but you can't agree that the person in first place on the winning team should be adequately compensated for their efforts? [/quote]
Correct - I don't believe you should be compensated for fielding what you chose to run. Match rewards are not compensation for your choices, if that were true we would all run officer gear knowing we would be compensated. The problem is as I stated the great pools of isk CCP has allowed people to amass. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7618
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Posted - 2015.03.12 08:22:00 -
[40] - Quote
Summa Militum wrote: And don't you ******* talk to me about skill you little *****. You don't ******* know me. 90% of the time I am placing in the top spots of the match leaderboard and this is while I am running solo (I have yet to run with a squad in this game).
Hint:
No one cares. Especially when you post like this.
AV
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7618
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Posted - 2015.03.12 08:24:00 -
[41] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:Well, 'adequately compensated' is entirely a subjective concept isn't it....
What you consider adequate and what the game designers consider adequate are obviously different. You obviously consider 'enough of a payout to run proto all the time' as adequate. It appears that CCP doesn't consider enough isk to run proto all the time to be 'adequate.' It appears that they consider enough ISK to run ADV all the time to be 'adequate.'
You are just going to have to accept the fact that CCP doesn't want 24/7 proto and adjust your ISK expenditure to compensate. Either run ADV all the time (the payouts are well balanced for maintaining ADV gear without isk profit or loss) or run STD sometimes and Proto other times to keep your bank book at neutral.
(in the case of constant pub matches of course)
THEN there are other ways to earn isk outside of Pub rewards to boot.
personally I believe running ADV (as defined by running an ADV suit with ADV mods and an ADV weapons) should be profitable.
Running prototype in pubs should just be a epeen wallet wound unless you're utterly sh*t-hot. In which case you deserve to profit. But people like me will hunt you with the cheesiest death inducing weapons to make sure your profit margin is minimal.
AV
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1843
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Posted - 2015.03.12 10:38:00 -
[42] - Quote
I've been losing isk since last November (since the weekly grind goal climbed up to 750k unboosted SP) and I say No.
Because it's great if it stings. If losing stuff is irrelevant, there's no feeling. No adrenaline.
If someone uses as a counterpoint "but there are people who have kazillions os PC isk" then I reply we are talking about the masses here, the game design as a whole. PC billionaires are a minority, and if PC is fixed their funds would eventually dwindle if they play reckless.
Looking at both sides of the coin.
Even Aurum one.
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
736
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Posted - 2015.03.12 23:35:00 -
[43] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Imp Smash wrote:Well, 'adequately compensated' is entirely a subjective concept isn't it....
What you consider adequate and what the game designers consider adequate are obviously different. You obviously consider 'enough of a payout to run proto all the time' as adequate. It appears that CCP doesn't consider enough isk to run proto all the time to be 'adequate.' It appears that they consider enough ISK to run ADV all the time to be 'adequate.'
You are just going to have to accept the fact that CCP doesn't want 24/7 proto and adjust your ISK expenditure to compensate. Either run ADV all the time (the payouts are well balanced for maintaining ADV gear without isk profit or loss) or run STD sometimes and Proto other times to keep your bank book at neutral.
(in the case of constant pub matches of course)
THEN there are other ways to earn isk outside of Pub rewards to boot.
personally I believe running ADV (as defined by running an ADV suit with ADV mods and an ADV weapons) should be profitable. Running prototype in pubs should just be a epeen wallet wound unless you're utterly sh*t-hot. In which case you deserve to profit. But people like me will hunt you with the cheesiest death inducing weapons to make sure your profit margin is minimal.
Yes, but same as the OP, that's how you would like it. While plenty reasonable, and in fact that opinion is also about where I stand on isk payouts as well, it's all just guess work. What does ccp consider acceptable? Why is that? Thats what we have to wrap our heads around.
Evidence suggests that ADV only gear is break even if you are average skill running average WP generation roles. And that when your skill improves a bit you profit.
CCP has reasons for the current pricing and pay systems. They may change their mind at any time, however. We may see greater or lesser ISK payouts/market prices.
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