DUST Search - To Rattati: Help the logis PLEASE

Breakin Stuff wrote:

DDx77 wrote:

Alena Ventrallis wrote:

Logis need so much work and haven't been touched in months. They have VERY low health, low speed, high profile, no sidearm, the list goes on. Whule they need a major overhaul, all I ask is please please PLEASE make the following simple changes.

1. Normalize slot layout with assault suits.
2. Normalize equipment slots across all tiers (basically add 1 equipment slot to basic tier logis)
3. Adjust PG/CPU to account for the extra slots

I'm begging you, even this simple change would do wonders for the logi class. While we debate how to balance them further, at the least these changes will help aleviate the frustration dedicated logibros are having to deal with.

Irrelevant sperging from a former logi tourist

1: Not a bad idea at all.

2: also not a bad idea.

3: again, not a bad idea.

Unfortunately rattati tried to suggest this, and a certain subset of logis absolutely lost their sh*t about the fact that it might cost them their sidearm slot and as a result the discussion got stonewalled.

So there's not work done on the logis that we can see.

Also I think survivability needs to be addressed for logis in the form of a personal regen bonus given that they cannot rep tool themselves.

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Alena Ventrallis Intara Direct Action Caldari State 2567	Posted - 2015.03.01 20:38:00 - [1] - Quote Logis need so much work and haven't been touched in months. They have VERY low health, low speed, high profile, no sidearm, the list goes on. Whule they need a major overhaul, all I ask is please please PLEASE make the following simple changes. 1. Normalize slot layout with assault suits. 2. Normalize equipment slots across all tiers (basically add 1 equipment slot to basic tier logis) 3. Adjust PG/CPU to account for the extra slots I'm begging you, even this simple change would do wonders for the logi class. While we debate how to balance them further, at the least these changes will help aleviate the frustration dedicated logibros are having to deal with. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
HOLY PERFECTION OUTCAST MERCS RISE of LEGION 46	Posted - 2015.03.01 21:51:00 - [2] - Quote Ya all logis need buffed HP wise, and equipment wise. *I WILL WIN... DESTINY*
Francois Sanchez Prima Gallicus 284	Posted - 2015.03.01 21:58:00 - [3] - Quote Some of these buffs may be discutable, however logis definitely need a rework. First they should all have the same type of slots layout The Amarr and Caldari bonuses need to be fixed (i.e. equipment doesn't lose the bonus when you die) Caldari logis really need something, atm it's the most useless suit in the game, there is nothing under it. I'm strongly opposed to having the same number of equipment at std, adv and pro, that would take out the point of using proto. If they already normalize the layout between races, Cal and Amarr will already get +1 equipment which should be enough.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 147	Posted - 2015.03.01 22:23:00 - [4] - Quote I say buff their eHP to the basic variant, buff basic to the assault, buff assault X amount. So the logis have survival, noobs don't get gib'd as quick, and assaults can live a bit more. Making mediums the go to suit! No more scout logis since the logi can have more eHP than the scout finally :/. Entering the void and becoming wind. Message for 1v1 air to air
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game RUST415 626	Posted - 2015.03.01 23:25:00 - [5] - Quote I say normalise slots with assaults. Increase number of carried deployable equipment (looks like this is being done for hives next hotfix). This will help Amarr and Caldari logis; they will be more able to replace destroyed equipment, bandwidth limits spam. Maybe give them a bonus to number carried. Fix Caldari logis' CPU (they need more). Decide what they need (choose one) out of extra mod slot at all tiers (two at proto?) over equivalent assaults, sidearm, 4th equipment. Make active scanners give wps for team-wide intel kill assists.
Assert Dominance Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 896	Posted - 2015.03.02 02:03:00 - [6] - Quote nothing wrong with logis other than gal scan bonus is broken 6 man proto squad errday.
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2948	Posted - 2015.03.02 02:55:00 - [7] - Quote Vehicles in general have been in disrepair for YEARS. You can wait for Master Splinter to finish at least phase 1. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
DDx77 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 159	Posted - 2015.03.02 03:17:00 - [8] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Logis need so much work and haven't been touched in months. They have VERY low health, low speed, high profile, no sidearm, the list goes on. Whule they need a major overhaul, all I ask is please please PLEASE make the following simple changes. 1. Normalize slot layout with assault suits. 2. Normalize equipment slots across all tiers (basically add 1 equipment slot to basic tier logis) 3. Adjust PG/CPU to account for the extra slots I'm begging you, even this simple change would do wonders for the logi class. While we debate how to balance them further, at the least these changes will help aleviate the frustration dedicated logibros are having to deal with. Hey buddy Hey..... They did do something and it screwed up a lot and made us all have to do unnecessary math (bastards!!!!!) Maybe you don't remember BANDWIDTH??????????? BANDWIDTH BANDWIDTH BANDWIDTH BANDWIDTH BANDWIDTH BANDWIDTH BANDWIDTH BANDWIDTH Dear logi's, thank you so much for bandwidth Now please die, stop complaining and die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die Militia Bolt Pistol - Cause that fourth shot is just a waste of time
VALCORE72 Dead Man's Game RUST415 216	Posted - 2015.03.02 13:45:00 - [9] - Quote Assert Dominance wrote: nothing wrong with logis other than gal scan bonus is broken scaners just need a max put on a suit . no more then 1 . perma scan in asian bush is ********
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7420	Posted - 2015.03.02 13:50:00 - [10] - Quote DDx77 wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Logis need so much work and haven't been touched in months. They have VERY low health, low speed, high profile, no sidearm, the list goes on. Whule they need a major overhaul, all I ask is please please PLEASE make the following simple changes. 1. Normalize slot layout with assault suits. 2. Normalize equipment slots across all tiers (basically add 1 equipment slot to basic tier logis) 3. Adjust PG/CPU to account for the extra slots I'm begging you, even this simple change would do wonders for the logi class. While we debate how to balance them further, at the least these changes will help aleviate the frustration dedicated logibros are having to deal with. Irrelevant sperging from a former logi tourist 1: Not a bad idea at all. 2: also not a bad idea. 3: again, not a bad idea. Unfortunately rattati tried to suggest this, and a certain subset of logis absolutely lost their sh*t about the fact that it might cost them their sidearm slot and as a result the discussion got stonewalled. So there's not work done on the logis that we can see. Also I think survivability needs to be addressed for logis in the form of a personal regen bonus given that they cannot rep tool themselves. AV

Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 3446	Posted - 2015.03.02 17:31:00 - [11] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Unfortunately rattati tried to suggest this, and a certain subset of logis absolutely lost their sht about the fact that it might cost them their sidearm slot and as a result the discussion got stonewalled. I'll stand by that too, unless CCP offers a partial Logi Command Tree SP Refund. The whole reason why I chose Amarr in the first place for logi work is for that sidearm. I want a combat logi, I chose a combat logi. If the whole things gets overhauled then I want an SP refund so I can choose again from the logis. Flat-out removing the sidearm is far more then a mere "nerf" it is a fundamental change to the whole suit's philosophy, not a "well this number is higher, and those lower." "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire*
Ku Shala UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 1272	Posted - 2015.03.02 17:34:00 - [12] - Quote broken no too many forum trolls have scared people from using these suits. if you use them to support and not to slay (or slay when it is appropriate) they work very well and I use a cal logi when Im in a supporting mood. IMHO if the suits had slot normalisation and some speed tweaks they would be very balanced considering the wp potential of a fully skilled suit. use nanos after a gun fight, rep a target and move on, pick up all downed targets when the area is cleared start the match with your uplinks spend the sp on your equipment and suit upgrades, fit an armour aggressive weapon to finish targets when required *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (CK-0 Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist Superior technology will privale.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 625	Posted - 2015.03.02 19:24:00 - [13] - Quote The bonuses need to have taken a look at. A Logi should get bonuses to more than one type of equipment. Also, make equipment automatically restock at supply depots. It's silly that you need to re-equip the suit to get your equipment back. In fact, why is equipment limited at all? Serious question. We have bandwith and a hard limit of how many of a type of equipment can be deployed. Equipment count is already a redundant mechanic since the introduction of bandwith. What if equipment was unlimited on Logi suits?
Ku Shala UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 1272	Posted - 2015.03.02 19:57:00 - [14] - Quote infinite equipment is a bad idea unless it worked like a cloak with a LONG cool down per piece resupply equipment @ depot is a good idea +1 *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (CK-0 Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist Superior technology will privale.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 868	Posted - 2015.03.02 20:40:00 - [15] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Logis need so much work and haven't been touched in months. They have VERY low health, low speed, high profile, no sidearm, the list goes on. Whule they need a major overhaul, all I ask is please please PLEASE make the following simple changes. 1. Normalize slot layout with assault suits. 2. Normalize equipment slots across all tiers (basically add 1 equipment slot to basic tier logis) 3. Adjust PG/CPU to account for the extra slots I'm begging you, even this simple change would do wonders for the logi class. While we debate how to balance them further, at the least these changes will help aleviate the frustration dedicated logibros are having to deal with. 1. Opposed to this at this time. Slot-parity with assaults at all levels leads to mod layout duplicity with assaults at all levels. Its not an assault frame, the slot layout difference reinforces this. 2. Opposed to this at this time. "WPWhoring" is a major issue with these frames and is the basis for much of the criticism of leaderboard position which has in part led to misconstrued conclusions about the frames, their use and their overall survivability . This circumstance is undoubtedly a large part of why they've gone unfixed for so long. 3. CPU/PG buffs need to happen for all of them, Cal and Amarr being most in need currently. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 868	Posted - 2015.03.02 20:51:00 - [16] - Quote Sole Fenychs wrote: Edit: In fact, if you could fix the issue that causes the "max active" count of equipment to only apply to identical pieces of equipment, Pretty sure thats not an "issue" but is how equipment limits and maxes are supposed to work. If they worked as you describe (limits on equipment type, irrespective of individual model) then eq deployment and use in general would be drastically affected in very negative ways, which will degrade the quality of the force multiplication Logis are supposed to provide as well as make the overall job even harder. Sole Fenychs wrote: P.S. The most important addition to Logis is likely a bandwith/active module count UI. This is actually the most important post-bandwidth addition all frames need. So important it should've been a part of the BW rollout to begin with. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 868	Posted - 2015.03.02 20:52:00 - [17] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: resupply equipment @ depot is a good idea +1 Agreed, eq resupply @ depot is a good idea. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 7156	Posted - 2015.03.02 23:03:00 - [18] - Quote Assert Dominance wrote: gal scan bonus is broken Agreed. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 868	Posted - 2015.03.02 23:32:00 - [19] - Quote Assert Dominance wrote: nothing wrong with logis other than gal scan bonus is broken Almost forgot this one. I disagree, nothing broken about a scanner scanning suits that aren't stealth focused or dedicated. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
HOLY PERFECTION Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION 51	Posted - 2015.03.02 23:37:00 - [20] - Quote NO EHP NEEDS BUFF *I WILL WIN... DESTINY*

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 868	Posted - 2015.03.02 23:42:00 - [21] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Assert Dominance wrote: gal scan bonus is broken Agreed. To fix, swap Gal precision bonus with cooldown bonus. Alena Ventrallis wrote: add 1 equipment slot to basic tier logis adjust PG/CPU to account for the extra slots Agreed. Also swap Logi and Assault Speeds, such that Class Speed and Class HP become inversely related. Also reduce price of Logi frame and reduce EQ pricing; the role is disproportionately Isk-intensive by comparison to other infantry roles. EQ price reductions would be benefical to everyone, if this idea is to be Logi-centric then it should be a purchasing discount, maybe applied when indivdually restocking modules in the fitting screen. We definitely need to be faster however simply swapping us around from Assaults is a disservice to the Assaults, who should be tankier at speed. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game RUST415 634	Posted - 2015.03.03 00:18:00 - [22] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Assert Dominance wrote: nothing wrong with logis other than gal scan bonus is broken Almost forgot this one. I disagree, nothing broken about a scanner scanning suits that aren't stealth focused or dedicated. I agree with your statement, but I think the Gal logi bonus makes it too difficult to focus your suit on stealth, to the point where it's not really viable. Which means people don't bother with fitting for stealth and variety / counter play in the game is diminished. Basically I think 3 complex damps is too much for an assault to hide from scans (i'm not getting into focused scans, just the other variants). 2 damps, like it was in the past, seems fairer for people who want put the effort into dampening. This would promote greater fitting variety and put a stop to people complaining about perma-scan (ok, whishfull thinking), as you could more reasonably expect people to dampen if they have a problem with scans. If you swapped the precision bonus for something like cooldown, it would buff Gal logi scans against the high profile majority. As I doubt many people would take the option to dampen, this would probably be a net buff to Gal logis. But we would have a fairer EWAR situation overall.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game RUST415 634	Posted - 2015.03.03 00:35:00 - [23] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Assert Dominance wrote: gal scan bonus is broken Agreed. To fix, swap Gal precision bonus with cooldown bonus. Alena Ventrallis wrote: add 1 equipment slot to basic tier logis adjust PG/CPU to account for the extra slots Agreed. Also swap Logi and Assault Speeds, such that Class Speed and Class HP become inversely related. Also reduce price of Logi frame and reduce EQ pricing; the role is disproportionately Isk-intensive by comparison to other infantry roles. I like the scan bonus idea, but I disagree about speed. Assaults are meant to be fast and tough, that is their thing, their speed shouldn't be lowered. Maybe logi's could be faster without slowing assaults? Improved regen is another option. Though I'm not yet sold on the idea that logis need improvements to base stats. Every other class was buffed because logis were too good. We should focus on tiers, racial balance and equipment use / support, otherwise we risk general power creep.
Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 262	Posted - 2015.03.03 00:36:00 - [24] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: EQ price reductions would be benefical to everyone, ... But disproportionately so for Logis. By all means let us all enjoy the benefits of cutting equipment costs in half. Logis will be saving about twice as much as anybody else. Combined with reducing logi suit costs, since they carry more expense in their fittings, and we'll have a more reasonable isk balance among the infantry classes. The Dust/Eve Isk Exchange Thread
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 868	Posted - 2015.03.03 00:46:00 - [25] - Quote Gyn Wallace wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: EQ price reductions would be benefical to everyone, ... But disproportionately so for Logis. By all means let us all enjoy the benefits of cutting equipment costs in half. Logis will be saving about twice as much as anybody else. Combined with reducing logi suit costs, since they carry more expense in their fittings, and we'll have a more reasonable isk balance among the infantry classes. I'm not saying that eq pricing isn't in need of adjustment, just that it's a boon for everyone so don't mistake it as a "Logi buff". Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
DDx77 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 163	Posted - 2015.03.03 01:37:00 - [26] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DDx77 wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Logis need so much work and haven't been touched in months. They have VERY low health, low speed, high profile, no sidearm, the list goes on. Whule they need a major overhaul, all I ask is please please PLEASE make the following simple changes. 1. Normalize slot layout with assault suits. 2. Normalize equipment slots across all tiers (basically add 1 equipment slot to basic tier logis) 3. Adjust PG/CPU to account for the extra slots I'm begging you, even this simple change would do wonders for the logi class. While we debate how to balance them further, at the least these changes will help aleviate the frustration dedicated logibros are having to deal with. Irrelevant sperging from a former logi tourist 1: Not a bad idea at all. 2: also not a bad idea. 3: again, not a bad idea. Unfortunately rattati tried to suggest this, and a certain subset of logis absolutely lost their sh*t about the fact that it might cost them their sidearm slot and as a result the discussion got stonewalled. So there's not work done on the logis that we can see. Also I think survivability needs to be addressed for logis in the form of a personal regen bonus given that they cannot rep tool themselves. I am still a tourist logi. Bandwidth had no effect on me whatsoever, I just never liked the idea and would like some incentive to use proxy mines and a little more Frrreeeeedooooom! Yes all those ideas are good, can we just turn bandwidth into a uplink/nano restriction on non logi's? If they do a teircide slot thing, I'm sure logi's won't get looked over There is definitely a slippery slope with their survivability tho. The Cal logi was once the best slayer because of bonuses to shield and I think shield reps. Militia Bolt Pistol - Cause that fourth shot is just a waste of time
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 868	Posted - 2015.03.03 02:05:00 - [27] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Assert Dominance wrote: nothing wrong with logis other than gal scan bonus is broken Almost forgot this one. I disagree, nothing broken about a scanner scanning suits that aren't stealth focused or dedicated. I agree with your statement, but I think the Gal logi bonus makes it too difficult to focus your suit on stealth, to the point where it's not really viable. Which means people don't bother with fitting for stealth and variety / counter play in the game is diminished. Basically I think 3 complex damps is too much for an assault to hide from scans (i'm not getting into focused scans, just the other variants). 2 damps, like it was in the past, seems fairer for people who want put the effort into dampening. This would promote greater fitting variety and put a stop to people complaining about perma-scan (ok, whishfull thinking), as you could more reasonably expect people to dampen if they have a problem with scans. If you swapped the precision bonus for something like cooldown, it would buff Gal logi scans against the high profile majority. As I doubt many people would take the option to dampen, this would probably be a net buff to Gal logis. But we would have a fairer EWAR situation overall. Thing is, stealth frames already have the ability to beat scanners. Dialed back farther we regress the tenative balance that exists between stealth and detection. A fully stealth stacked assault frame can only be so effective at stealth in general or it begins to overlap too far onto what is supposed to be Scout territory. The whole point of the GalLogi bonus is as a Counter-Recon capacity. Counter-Recon, it's worth noting, that can still be defeated by Recon-Specialized frames. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 7166	Posted - 2015.03.03 03:27:00 - [28] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: The whole point of the GalLogi bonus is as a Counter-Recon capacity. Counter-Recon, it's worth noting, that can still be defeated by Recon-Specialized frames. The point of the GalLogi might at one point have been "Counter-Recon", but the post-Falloff GalLoti is much more than that. It is now the very best at both "Counter Recon" and "Recon". Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 888	Posted - 2015.03.03 03:41:00 - [29] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: The whole point of the GalLogi bonus is as a Counter-Recon capacity. Counter-Recon, it's worth noting, that can still be defeated by Recon-Specialized frames. There are no competitive Recon or Counter-Recon units other than the GalLogi. Any Scout that is capable of dampening under the scanner is. EDIT: Should Be The onus is on the user to perform in a recon capacity. I see this done and done well in PC often. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 7167	Posted - 2015.03.03 03:44:00 - [30] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: The whole point of the GalLogi bonus is as a Counter-Recon capacity. Counter-Recon, it's worth noting, that can still be defeated by Recon-Specialized frames. There are no competitive Recon or Counter-Recon units other than the GalLogi. Any Scout that is capable of dampening under the scanner is. Serious Questions: How does a fully dampened Scout provide Recon? Is that Recon competitive when compared to GalLogi Recon? el OPERATOR wrote: I see this done and done well in PC often. :: My Face :: Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley



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