DUST Search - To Rattati: Help the logis PLEASE

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Meee One wrote:

Adipem Nothi wrote:

el OPERATOR wrote:

Especially with a GalLogi who is quite likely detectable itself. And very likely underpowered for any sort of direct confrontation against a combat-superior frame that capitalizes.

Those arguments ring a bell ...

Remember when Zatara was campaigning to change "360 Wallhacks" and "Trifectas"?

Well, Scouts pointed out then just like you're pointing out now that Recon Scouts were super squishy. They were squishier than any GalLogi, and unlike the GalLogi they had to get within Fine Rifle range of a unit to scan it. Scouts also pointed out that they couldn't simultaneously run Damps and Range Extenders, so (just like your GalLogi) they were very likely being scanned if they were running scans. Unlike your GalLogi, they didn't earn WP; their unpaid job was to get close and keep the scans up by trying not to die.

But they had cloak! Right? Nope. Cloak-blind went into effect before we retired the Recon Scout.

You're conveniently leaving out the fact that those 360 wallhacks worked 100% of the time.

Where as scanners work once every 30-45 seconds.

Not while cloaked!

And where are you getting 30-45 seconds? The Creodron Prox Scanner has 10 second cooldown. I use it all the time. Pretty sure scanner cooldown times are still listed in game. One GalLogi with four, 21dB scanners can keep a significant portion of a map perma-scanned. Count how many seconds pass between the "you've been scanned" messages next time you play Ambush against Nyain San. If the match lasts 300 seconds, I'll bet you'll have been scanned for 250 of 'em.

Open-Beta Vet.
Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

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el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 889	Posted - 2015.03.03 04:32:00 - [31] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: The whole point of the GalLogi bonus is as a Counter-Recon capacity. Counter-Recon, it's worth noting, that can still be defeated by Recon-Specialized frames. There are no competitive Recon or Counter-Recon units other than the GalLogi. Any Scout that is capable of dampening under the scanner is. Serious Questions: How does a fully dampened Scout provide Recon? Is that Recon competitive when compared to GalLogi Recon? By inserting, undetected or remaining in the periphery, undetected and providing scans. OR worthwhile verbal communications. OR hacking the unprotected. OR any one of the countless other OP TEAMWORK support actions you should generally be doing. Of course it's competitive. Especially with a GalLogi who is quite likely detectable itself. And very likely underpowered for any sort of direct confrontation against a combat-superior frame that capitalizes. I see this done and done well in PC often. Adipem Nothi wrote: :: My Face :: As of Falloff, Scouts no longer provide Recon. Any Recon you get comes from an active scanner, and no Recon competes with GalLogi Recon. The very best at Recon. The very best at Counter-Recon. Somebody find Zatara; these GalLogis are having cake and eating it too. Sounds like some Gal somewhere is eating your cake. Quit giving to them. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 7172	Posted - 2015.03.03 07:18:00 - [32] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Especially with a GalLogi who is quite likely detectable itself. And very likely underpowered for any sort of direct confrontation against a combat-superior frame that capitalizes. Those arguments ring a bell ... Remember when Zatara was campaigning to change "360 Wallhacks" and "Trifectas"? Well, Scouts pointed out then that Recon Scouts were super squishy (way squishier than any GalLogi), easily killed, and had to get within Fine Rifle range to scan. Scouts also pointed out that they couldn't run Damps and Range Extenders, so if they were scanning they were also subject to being scanned. Sound familiar? But they were cloaked! Right? Nope; cloak-blind went into effect well before Falloff. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7431	Posted - 2015.03.03 08:54:00 - [33] - Quote I use the minscout to do recon by fire. Find badguy. Shoot in back with ACR. Report enemy contact(killfeed). Get shot in face. Activate needle signal so allies know what area enemies were contacted in. Move along. AV
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1555	Posted - 2015.03.03 17:26:00 - [34] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Assert Dominance wrote: gal scan bonus is broken Agreed. To fix, swap Gal precision bonus with cooldown bonus. Alena Ventrallis wrote: add 1 equipment slot to basic tier logis adjust PG/CPU to account for the extra slots Agreed. Also swap Logi and Assault Speeds, such that Class Speed and Class HP become inversely related. Also reduce price of Logi frame and reduce EQ pricing; the role is disproportionately Isk-intensive by comparison to other infantry roles. I like the scan bonus idea, but I disagree about speed. Assaults are meant to be fast and tough, that is their thing, their speed shouldn't be lowered. Maybe logi's could be faster without slowing assaults? Improved regen is another option. Though I'm not yet sold on the idea that logis need improvements to base stats. Every other class was buffed because logis were too good. We should focus on tiers, racial balance and equipment use / support, otherwise we risk general power creep. Logistics has 300 eHP max on amarr. 240 Minimal on Minmatar. Are less tanked than basics yet are slower than basics. Assaults have 160 eHP extra which,according to armor plates,should make them slower than logistics. Yet logistics are slower than even heavier tanked assaults. If 240 sounds familiar,it's because that's the same as the AM scout. That's right,Min logistics has as much eHP as a scout,yet is almost as slow as a commando. If that's not broken IDK what is. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1555	Posted - 2015.03.03 17:28:00 - [35] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Especially with a GalLogi who is quite likely detectable itself. And very likely underpowered for any sort of direct confrontation against a combat-superior frame that capitalizes. Those arguments ring a bell ... Remember when Zatara was campaigning to change "360 Wallhacks" and "Trifectas"? Well, Scouts pointed out then just like you're pointing out now that Recon Scouts were super squishy. They were squishier than any GalLogi, and unlike the GalLogi they had to get within Fine Rifle range of a unit to scan it. Scouts also pointed out that they couldn't simultaneously run Damps and Range Extenders, so (just like your GalLogi) they were very likely being scanned if they were running scans. Unlike your GalLogi, they didn't earn WP; their unpaid job was to get close and keep the scans up by trying not to die. But they had cloak! Right? Nope. Cloak-blind went into effect before we retired the Recon Scout. You're conveniently leaving out the fact that those 360 wallhacks worked 100% of the time. Where as scanners work once every 30-45 seconds. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1813	Posted - 2015.03.03 20:54:00 - [36] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Assert Dominance wrote: gal scan bonus is broken Agreed. To fix, swap Gal precision bonus with cooldown bonus. I disagree with both of you , you can fit multiple links , nano's and rep tools if you like so why not scanners ? I use Gal logi and I never place more then one scanner on my fit but why limit if the others have none and if someone fit two or three scanners on their fit then they are gimping their own suit for the advantage of better vision so that's the preference of the user , I .E : multiple equipment if desired . It should remain a personal choice , we already have BW which if there was an actual vote I think that it might not have passed because it killed solo play like a lot of changes implemented and coming that are not talked about until they are administered . Yes they place a post but there really is not a chance to weigh the pro's and con's with a actual chance of a change if needed . Precision is to SEE , you complain about spamming scanners but you would rather have a shorter cool down so the usage COULD ACTUALLY start to spam but with less visibility so how is that benefiting the user if the scanner can't see that well but can be used more often ? That doesn't even sound right and you people that suggest such should stop because your clearly trying to kill the visibility of scanners for your benefit . You scouts need to stop that , you already have the greatest benefits over any other suit in the game and can play the most ranging play styles in one role . Long cool downs makes efforts even for both sides , fit extra and gimp your suit ... use one and you have to deal with the scanner mechanic , the bonus is just fine as is . Hell you can't see all scouts anyway unless you use one scanner in general and even that can be beat . You people need to stop trying to kill this game on a whim , even some of your numbers that some of you like to spout just doesn't translate to the battlefield because they garner different results in game play . Do you people know how to do anything besides troll ??? Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 7205	Posted - 2015.03.03 21:29:00 - [37] - Quote Meee One wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Especially with a GalLogi who is quite likely detectable itself. And very likely underpowered for any sort of direct confrontation against a combat-superior frame that capitalizes. Those arguments ring a bell ... Remember when Zatara was campaigning to change "360 Wallhacks" and "Trifectas"? Well, Scouts pointed out then just like you're pointing out now that Recon Scouts were super squishy. They were squishier than any GalLogi, and unlike the GalLogi they had to get within Fine Rifle range of a unit to scan it. Scouts also pointed out that they couldn't simultaneously run Damps and Range Extenders, so (just like your GalLogi) they were very likely being scanned if they were running scans. Unlike your GalLogi, they didn't earn WP; their unpaid job was to get close and keep the scans up by trying not to die. But they had cloak! Right? Nope. Cloak-blind went into effect before we retired the Recon Scout. You're conveniently leaving out the fact that those 360 wallhacks worked 100% of the time. Where as scanners work once every 30-45 seconds. Not while cloaked! And where are you getting 30-45 seconds? The Creodron Prox Scanner has 10 second cooldown. I use it all the time. Pretty sure scanner cooldown times are still listed in game. One GalLogi with four, 21dB scanners can pretty much keep a socket perma-scanned. Count how many seconds pass between the "you've been scanned" messages next time you play Ambush against Nyain San. If the match lasts 300 seconds, I'll bet you'll have been scanned for 250 of 'em. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 213	Posted - 2015.03.03 23:33:00 - [38] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DDx77 wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Logis need so much work and haven't been touched in months. They have VERY low health, low speed, high profile, no sidearm, the list goes on. Whule they need a major overhaul, all I ask is please please PLEASE make the following simple changes. 1. Normalize slot layout with assault suits. 2. Normalize equipment slots across all tiers (basically add 1 equipment slot to basic tier logis) 3. Adjust PG/CPU to account for the extra slots I'm begging you, even this simple change would do wonders for the logi class. While we debate how to balance them further, at the least these changes will help aleviate the frustration dedicated logibros are having to deal with. Irrelevant sperging from a former logi tourist 1: Not a bad idea at all. 2: also not a bad idea. 3: again, not a bad idea. Unfortunately rattati tried to suggest this, and a certain subset of logis absolutely lost their sh*t about the fact that it might cost them their sidearm slot and as a result the discussion got stonewalled. So there's not work done on the logis that we can see. Also I think survivability needs to be addressed for logis in the form of a personal regen bonus given that they cannot rep tool themselves. well...even with what he's suggesting you wouldn't have to remove the sidearm from the Amarr Logi suit, Amarr Logi would just have 3 equipment instead of 4...and I'm Ok with that. The Cal-logi is where you have to decide to either give it a sidearm, or 4 equipment (at all tiers) I like my sidearm on my Amarr Logi, and will work to preserve it as hard as possible...that being said, I am willing to give it up if I am convinced that it would actually make the game better Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
Alena Ventrallis Intara Direct Action Caldari State 2579	Posted - 2015.03.04 00:35:00 - [39] - Quote I don't know where people got the idea that I wanted the sidearm removed on the AmLogi, but that is not the case. All I want, is for the logi hi/low slots to match their assault counterparts, to have 4 slots at all tiers (save AmLogi) and for PG/CPU to be adjusted for the new slots. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 894	Posted - 2015.03.04 19:01:00 - [40] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Meee One wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Especially with a GalLogi who is quite likely detectable itself. And very likely underpowered for any sort of direct confrontation against a combat-superior frame that capitalizes. Those arguments ring a bell ... Remember when Zatara was campaigning to change "360 Wallhacks" and "Trifectas"? Well, Scouts pointed out then just like you're pointing out now that Recon Scouts were super squishy. They were squishier than any GalLogi, and unlike the GalLogi they had to get within Fine Rifle range of a unit to scan it. Scouts also pointed out that they couldn't simultaneously run Damps and Range Extenders, so (just like your GalLogi) they were very likely being scanned if they were running scans. Unlike your GalLogi, they didn't earn WP; their unpaid job was to get close and keep the scans up by trying not to die. But they had cloak! Right? Nope. Cloak-blind went into effect before we retired the Recon Scout. You're conveniently leaving out the fact that those 360 wallhacks worked 100% of the time. Where as scanners work once every 30-45 seconds. Not while cloaked! And where are you getting 30-45 seconds? The Creodron Prox Scanner has 10 second cooldown. I use it all the time. Pretty sure scanner cooldown times are still listed in game. One GalLogi with four, 21dB scanners can keep a significant portion of a map perma-scanned. Count how many seconds pass between the "you've been scanned" messages next time you play Ambush against Nyain San. If the match lasts 300 seconds, I'll bet you'll have been scanned for 250 of 'em. I'm curious, when did Recon become a passive activity? I knew the passive detection of scouts was strong but are you saying that it was so strong you forgot how to actually do it? That CreoProx is a 28db scanner, 45-¦ sweep, 10 second light time. Plenty of wiggle room for a scout that knows it's been scanned to respond accordingly. One GalLogi with 4 of the powerful scanners available, cycling them as efficiently as possible is only able to light 180-¦ MAX (45-¦ each) for I think 40 seconds TOTAL (10 seconds lit each) AND because Active Scanning is an ACTIVE activity, unlike your previous 360-¦ 24/7 passive "wallhack" (your term) that coupled with your movement speed actually displaced moving based vehicle scanners in effectiveness, there's the scanner cycling and firing gaps which mean you never actually achieve that 180 for 40 seconds scenario. Instead it's 45-¦ worth one after the other. AND the whole time this is happeneing the scanner-using suit is occupied using the scanner and NOT participating directly in combat, ie one less GUN on the field. UNLIKE the previous scout behaviour of 360 passives lighting everything from an invisible gummybear that's simutaneously bouncing in and out of combat zones spamming re's and shotgunning people. And then coming to the forums to tell people they need better "situational awareness". If a GalLogi is getting you down, gtfo the forums and go kill him. Anything else is a waste of everybody's time. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.



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