DUST Search - So Combat Rifles OP?

Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:

so first off I'm going to emphasise the psychological factor that has people instantly switching to swarms to eliminate dropships now that it's a thing that's possible, and second:

the Minmatar Assault was considered the worst of the four assault suits for a good long while.
It was mostly unused, even for an assault suit - it didn't even have the dedicated users the Amarr Assault had.

Now? It's the most used suit.

You can't honestly tell me it's because suddenly the suit is 'balanced'.

Atiim wrote:

The first (and probably greatest) is because it has a balanced slot layout, which means you can tank it however you'd like. This effectively reduces the need to invest into another dropsuit as you can change tasks at a moments notice, whereas previously if you wanted to be diverse you needed to invest into 2 Dropsuits (ie, a Caldari Assault who needed an Armor Tank would have to spec into either a Gallente or Amarr Assault).

The second reason, is because it increases the magazine size of the Combat Rifle (2nd most popular light weapon, and best Anti-Armor rifle) and the Sub-Machine Gun, which is by far the most popular Sidearm. These bonuses make weapons players want to use even better, while also providing you with a solid platform to put it on. This is also why SCR users tend to invest into the Amarr Assault.

As for it being overpowered, it's far from. No matter which way you fit the suit, it is still subject to the weaknesses that would come with using that fit on the specialized version (ie, if you Shield Tank it you'll be weak to SCRs and ARs like the Caldari Assault is).

That, and when trying to mimic the functions of a specialized suit, you won't be as good as said specialized suit (ie, you can Armor Tank it but you'll never be as good at Armor Tanking as the Gal/Am Assaults.

Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Sinboto Simmons Dead Man's Game RUST415 7785	Posted - 2015.02.26 03:53:00 - [31] - Quote killertojo42 wrote: LUGMOS wrote: killertojo42 wrote: almost anyone who runs a combat rifle runs damage mods, the weapon only seems OP because of that but we're talking about a weapon that has a whole skill ( sharpshooter ) just so it doesn't miss its target too much and it's a weapon where people are mixing damage mods and the damage mod skill which increases damage mod efficiency ie. damage given on mod and the weapon skills, calling a heavily skilled into weapon OP is pointless because every weapon when heavily skilled into is supposed to be quite powerful How can you say that, you and I both know that is complete and utter bullsmit... if you're saying you don't then i might die laughing at you tonight a few people don't, there's more ways to play the game than the cookie cut slayer. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 2 Born of the Brutor tribe
Myron Kundera UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 170	Posted - 2015.02.26 03:55:00 - [32] - Quote I understand that the CR/ACR is supposed to kill armor in nanoseconds cause reasons (aurum/respec/fotm), but still, it feels as if it kills shields almost as fast. I armor tank so i don-¦t have high shields, but i have seen caldari assaults get melted in seconds with the ACR/CR in CQC 1 vs 1, don-¦t think thats supposed to happen... "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
Sinboto Simmons Dead Man's Game RUST415 7785	Posted - 2015.02.26 04:01:00 - [33] - Quote Myron Kundera wrote: I understand that the CR/ACR is supposed to kill armor in nanoseconds cause reasons (aurum/respec/fotm), but still, it feels as if it kills shields almost as fast. I armor tank so i don-¦t have high shields, but i have seen caldari assaults get melted in seconds with the ACR/CR in CQC 1 vs 1, don-¦t think thats supposed to happen... Well it is a low-mid range weapon, it's not like the scrambler(mid-long) doing 400+ damage from 8 meters. And let's be honest, the Caldari aren't exactly the picture of CQC, no matter how much these idiots brick tank them. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 2 Born of the Brutor tribe
First Prophet Nos Nothi 2466	Posted - 2015.02.26 04:02:00 - [34] - Quote YO FOR REAL THO. On militia suits with militia shield extenders, sure, my ACR can wreck it pretty quick. Advanced and above I probably won't get a kill on shield suits without reloading or switching to my sidearm unless it's super close range or I manage a lot of headshots. That's with a Six Kin ACR too. Even with goddamn calscouts. And the ACR does literally NOTHING past it's optimal. Sure on some maps it's not always a problem, but on other maps it's THE WORST F-CKING THING. People find this this review helpful!
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 15789	Posted - 2015.02.26 04:04:00 - [35] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: defending the CR on Min Assault is like defending the HMG or Breach AR. Only issue with the CR is the Min Assault bonus taking away from the weapons only balancing feature since it's damn good at everything else and costing sidearm level CPU/PG to equip. It's annoying on most suits but I don't call it OP, the problem comes when you have the ability to keep your high RoF, DPS, recoil, decent ranged weapon constantly on a target then you'd get a problem. Well for starters, the exact same thing could be said about the Amarr Assault using a Scrambler Rifle as it also mitigates its only weakness, being the Heat Sink. Claiming that it has "sidearm level CPU/PG to equip" is misleading. The CPU/PG of the most used sidearms rests at 57/10 (SMG), 55/10 (BoP), and 48/8 (SCP). While the PG is indeed similar to the CR, the CPU is far less with a differences of 24-33 (about 30-40%, which quite a bit). Compared to the other rifles its hardly significant, with it having 3/9 less than the RR and 8/4 less than the PR. The only times those will ever make a difference is when stacking as many Complex items as possible, but even then downgrading 1 module will let you save more CPU/PG than swamping to the CR. Though it should be noted that with the Assault's bonus, all of the Light Weapons (even the SCR) are given "sidearm level CPU/PG" which further removes the weight of that statement. Sgt Kirk wrote: That's like if the Gallente Assault was given a bonus to Range. You know how OP that would make the Plasma Rifles then it makes the Breach into Jove mode? Another weapon that has very little drawbacks besides the one main one...then we just get a bonus to negate the main balancing factor of the weapon. Let's give RR more damage if we are to have this mindset. Let's get rid of Laser Rifle heatbuildup even more and give it more damage. I don't consider damage to be the RR's weakness, as only has about 55 DPS less than the PR but when done properly increased damage boosts on the RR can be done without being OP, as noted by the Caldari Commando. However you can nearly achieve both of those results with the Amarr Assault, as with 3 DMs you can get +17% and since you only overheat with 20 shots in the mag you'll never find a target you can't drop before overheating. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Stormblade Green KnightKiller's inc. 18	Posted - 2015.02.26 04:17:00 - [36] - Quote JUDASisMYhomeboy wrote: Its remarkably powerful. Comparing it to the scr is a joke though. The scr needs heavy sp investment aim and practice. The militia acr on the starter fit tears everything apart. Overpowered? Idk but i definitely find it WAY more reliable for killing everything. I would believe but.... no I get the same kills and deaths with both a amarr and minmitar assaults.... and I'm more than triple the amount of SP investment into minmitar assault than the amarr.... though it could be the fact I'm used to multi-rolling One might say... I'm very skilled... yet I'm his apprentice... So what does that say about my mentor?
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 306	Posted - 2015.02.26 04:21:00 - [37] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: JUDASisMYhomeboy wrote: Its remarkably powerful. Comparing it to the scr is a joke though. The scr needs heavy sp investment aim and practice. The militia acr on the starter fit tears everything apart. Overpowered? Idk but i definitely find it WAY more reliable for killing everything. Having used the scrambler I can honestly say it's not as difficult to use as you Amarr make it out to be, not even close. I get more of a challenge using the mass driver. Yeah, MD needs something, 5m splash range at proto, or 110 splash dmg for AMD. Molestia approved
4lbert Wesker King and Queens 138	Posted - 2015.02.26 08:37:00 - [38] - Quote Combat rifle do more damage than HMG at twice of speed.So,it's pretty much HMG for medium frames. Public skirmish = camping games
Savage Mangler Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 310	Posted - 2015.02.26 08:57:00 - [39] - Quote 4lbert Wesker wrote: Combat rifle do more damage than HMG at twice of speed.So,it's pretty much HMG for medium frames. Lolwut? Free your mind, break your shackles..... In other words....stop being a gorram metasheeple.
4lbert Wesker King and Queens 138	Posted - 2015.02.26 09:13:00 - [40] - Quote STD HMG - 18.00 HP - 2400 RPM STD Assault combat rifle - 19.85 - 1200 RPM STD Combat rifle - 27.00 HP - 1200 RPM Something was not clear? Public skirmish = camping games

Jebus McKing Nos Nothi 1541	Posted - 2015.02.26 10:18:00 - [41] - Quote CR is fine. I use a DMG mod regularly with the CR but I still prefer to shoot shield tankers with my breach ScP. Well, it's true, all the slow ass armour tankers have a hard time dealing with CR, naturally. But dealing with armour tankers with the CR still takes more time than dealing with shield tankers with the ScR. pé¿pâûpé¦pü»pé¦pé¡pâúpâ¦péÆs½îpüúpüªpüäpéïpÇé wwwwwwwwwww
postapo wastelander Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION 940	Posted - 2015.02.26 11:05:00 - [42] - Quote CR is fine, ScR is more powerfull and no one care. Leave it or we will have another disbalance in game. "Sebiestor Tinker/Hetzer" "Corrosive Supporter/Synergist" "We build from Rust"
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 473	Posted - 2015.02.26 11:11:00 - [43] - Quote Only reason the cr feels more powerful is that it's harder to outstrafe the amount of bullets that it spits out. The ScR shoots way less shots, so a fast strafer can doge a lot of the shots, so dps on a strafer decreases more than with a CR. At range the difference isn't that big, but medium/close it gets obvious.
postapo wastelander Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION 940	Posted - 2015.02.26 11:23:00 - [44] - Quote Why people doing these NERF/OP threads. Honestly i do not get it. We still do not have implemented all weapons in weaponary and we trying to put some balance. First we should have weaponary and discuss what is or just seems OP later. Trying to make diferences in weaponary now is completely out of sence. Because we will have issues with weapons implemented later. "Sebiestor Tinker/Hetzer" "Corrosive Supporter/Synergist" "We build from Rust"
Slave of MORTE 333	Posted - 2015.02.26 12:11:00 - [45] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: killertojo42 wrote: almost anyone who runs a combat rifle runs damage mods, the weapon only seems OP because of that but we're talking about a weapon that has a whole skill ( sharpshooter ) just so it doesn't miss its target too much and it's a weapon where people are mixing damage mods and the damage mod skill which increases damage mod efficiency ie. damage given on mod and the weapon skills, calling a heavily skilled into weapon OP is pointless because every weapon when heavily skilled into is supposed to be quite powerful How can you say that, you and I both know that is complete and utter bullsmit... Actually as far as I know most cr or acr Fitts run a damage mod or 2 extacy cravings fit runs 2 Yet another slave of Mortedeamor
Nocturnal Soul Ametat Security Amarr Empire 5531	Posted - 2015.02.26 12:57:00 - [46] - Quote I run zero damage mods on my Minmatar assault fits, I thought it was normal to do so? (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 15794	Posted - 2015.02.26 13:13:00 - [47] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: I run zero damage mods on my Minmatar assault fits, I thought it was normal to do so? Your first mistake was assuming that there's a normal Matari Assault fitting. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 1202	Posted - 2015.02.26 13:16:00 - [48] - Quote postapo wastelander wrote: Why people doing these NERF/OP threads. Honestly i do not get it. We still do not have implemented all weapons in weaponary and we trying to put some balance. First we should have weaponary and discuss what is or just seems OP later. Trying to make diferences in weaponary now is completely out of sence. Because we will have issues with weapons implemented later. It doesnt take all day for the devs to tone down the CR, either reducing the DPS or adding some kind of kick, its a major problem for a lot of people as it chews shields as well. Dont really think its on ScR terms of OP but then again I run shield fits Nemo me impune lacessit CCP - Announcing games at the same time as killing the ones you love CCP - No Credibility
ReGnYuM State of Purgatory General Tso's Alliance 3500	Posted - 2015.02.26 13:30:00 - [49] - Quote I really wouldn't call it OP. It really does not have its stopping power of previous builds, and it can be a nightmare, when used against shield based suits. Its real benefits are its versatility, scope,and moderately low fitting requirements.
Lorhak Gannarsein Nos Nothi 4349	Posted - 2015.02.26 14:37:00 - [50] - Quote Atiim wrote: The Combat Rifle is considered overpowered by players who: 1. Believe that anything that kills them with regularity is OP 2. Armor Tank and feel like their HP should make them Senti-Strong. 3. Believe that the Matari Assault is OP and want to take something else down with it. Looking at the stats however, it's DPS (and therefore TTK) is in-line with the other rifles, with it's differences being apparent based on which suit it's pitted against (like the other rifles). so first off I'm going to emphasise the psychological factor that has people instantly switching to swarms to eliminate dropships now that it's a thing that's possible, and second: the Minmatar Assault was considered the worst of the four assault suits for a good long while. It was mostly unused, even for an assault suit - it didn't even have the dedicated users the Amarr Assault had. Now? It's the most used suit. You can't honestly tell me it's because suddenly the suit is 'balanced'. Guys, we need to stop calling MU a 'matchmaker' when it's actually a 'teambuilder'. And I want to play FE:A now. Damn.

Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 9941	Posted - 2015.02.26 14:41:00 - [51] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Atiim wrote: The Combat Rifle is considered overpowered by players who: 1. Believe that anything that kills them with regularity is OP 2. Armor Tank and feel like their HP should make them Senti-Strong. 3. Believe that the Matari Assault is OP and want to take something else down with it. Looking at the stats however, it's DPS (and therefore TTK) is in-line with the other rifles, with it's differences being apparent based on which suit it's pitted against (like the other rifles). looks at Scr ScR is OP vs. Shield suits, the same way that the CR is OP vs. Armor. It's not the CR's fault that everyone loves to run Armor Born Deteis Caldari. Rejected by my Kinsman. Found a new family in the Vherokior Tribe. Nobody messes with my family
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4065	Posted - 2015.02.26 14:42:00 - [52] - Quote Scr is the most OP light weapon. MitraglieTTOH
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 9941	Posted - 2015.02.26 14:43:00 - [53] - Quote Atiim wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: I run zero damage mods on my Minmatar assault fits, I thought it was normal to do so? Your first mistake was assuming that there's a normal Matari Assault fitting. Wish all suits were that flexible. Everyone runs the damn suit differently. It's amazing. Born Deteis Caldari. Rejected by my Kinsman. Found a new family in the Vherokior Tribe. Nobody messes with my family
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 15799	Posted - 2015.02.26 14:58:00 - [54] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: so first off I'm going to emphasise the psychological factor that has people instantly switching to swarms to eliminate dropships now that it's a thing that's possible, and second: the Minmatar Assault was considered the worst of the four assault suits for a good long while. It was mostly unused, even for an assault suit - it didn't even have the dedicated users the Amarr Assault had. Now? It's the most used suit. You can't honestly tell me it's because suddenly the suit is 'balanced'. Well for starters, being used 2.5% more than the other leading brands isn't much of an accomplishment. Not that it matters, as usage does not equate to power. As for why it's the most used, I covered this in another thread. Atiim wrote: The first (and probably greatest) is because it has a balanced slot layout, which means you can tank it however you'd like. This effectively reduces the need to invest into another dropsuit as you can change tasks at a moments notice, whereas previously if you wanted to be diverse you needed to invest into 2 Dropsuits (ie, a Caldari Assault who needed an Armor Tank would have to spec into either a Gallente or Amarr Assault). The second reason, is because it increases the magazine size of the Combat Rifle (2nd most popular light weapon, and best Anti-Armor rifle) and the Sub-Machine Gun, which is by far the most popular Sidearm. These bonuses make weapons players want to use even better, while also providing you with a solid platform to put it on. This is also why SCR users tend to invest into the Amarr Assault. As for it being overpowered, it's far from. No matter which way you fit the suit, it is still subject to the weaknesses that would come with using that fit on the specialized version (ie, if you Shield Tank it you'll be weak to SCRs and ARs like the Caldari Assault is). That, and when trying to mimic the functions of a specialized suit, you won't be as good as said specialized suit (ie, you can Armor Tank it but you'll never be as good at Armor Tanking as the Gal/Am Assaults. Now my challenge to you, is to find one thing that makes the MinAssault overpowered that can't be reproduced on any other dropsuit. If you cannot, you're reasons for wanting a nerf are solely "because it killed me". The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8863	Posted - 2015.02.26 15:16:00 - [55] - Quote The "because #armormeta" argument always makes me laugh. Consider for a moment: Three Complex Armor Plates on a Gal Assault versus Three Complex Shield Extenders on a Cal Assault. I think that's a fair assumption. We'll go with raw DPS values (even though this isn't accurate because everyone pulls the trigger at different speeds) for fairness. Gallente Armor: 639 Caldari Shield: 562 Proto Combat Rifle (with Prof 5) DPS, no damage mods: Shields: 504.9 HP/s Armor: 785.57 HP/s TTK: Shields: 1.11s Armor: 0.81s So how much difference is there, honestly? Talking a whole 0.30 seconds. That's about the time it takes to charge up a Magsec SMG. It's -not- that big of a difference. The weapon is powerful in it's own right and saying that it's because of the Armor Meta is sort of flawed because you'd have to go and assume that the weapon has Proficiency 5 for any notable difference. If it isn't [at prof 5] the DPS to armor is 683.1 HP/s which makes the TTK 0.94s, a grand total of 0.17 seconds worth a difference. That's slightly less time than it takes you to blink. Suffice to say, you'd probably lose more DPS being generally inaccurate but that's a fat chance given the thing's dispersion is so amazing compared to other weapons. And if this "armor meta" really is such a problem then why doesn't the Scrambler Rifle struggle more than it currently does? Why doesn't the Assault Rifle struggle more than it currently does? Just saying, the data speaks for itself. Not saying it's "OP" but the Combat Rifle isn't used with such extreme regularity because of the "Armor Meta", which only exists in Pubs anyway. Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*
Nirwanda Vaughns 1468	Posted - 2015.02.26 15:16:00 - [56] - Quote Vs Armour, Yes. But then its supposed to be. thats like asking if the LR is OP vs Shields. an equivalent tier CR vs Shield tanker is pretty terrible. even on a proto skilled minmando with complex DMs and max skills you can struggle to break a well tanked C-I whats 'OP' (technically broken not OP) is the LR's heat build up and damage vs Armour. the damage multiplier for the length of firing the laser needs to really be looked at. it far negates the -20% damage to armour that other laser weapons have to deal with. its the only weapon that still broken and been made more OP due to the effective ranging being brought down from 30m to 5/10m. there isn't really much downside to using the LR now. Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge VP Gaming Alliance 966	Posted - 2015.02.26 15:18:00 - [57] - Quote Atrium hit the nail on the head. It's about versatility Atiim explained the MinASS perfectly The CR is also very versital in both range and against either Sheilds or armor. Other rifles do things better wether it be ranged/CQC or damage application but the CR can hold its own in most circumstances while not performing as well as other weapons. Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2429	Posted - 2015.02.26 15:29:00 - [58] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Vs Armour, Yes. But then its supposed to be. thats like asking if the LR is OP vs Shields. an equivalent tier CR vs Shield tanker is pretty terrible. even on a proto skilled minmando with complex DMs and max skills you can struggle to break a well tanked C-I whats 'OP' (technically broken not OP) is the LR's heat build up and damage vs Armour. the damage multiplier for the length of firing the laser needs to really be looked at. it far negates the -20% damage to armour that other laser weapons have to deal with. its the only weapon that still broken and been made more OP due to the effective ranging being brought down from 30m to 5/10m. there isn't really much downside to using the LR now. Laser Rifle is OP? No. Its not. Just. Wow. People will cry about ******* anything. Home at Last <3
Nirwanda Vaughns 1468	Posted - 2015.02.26 15:34:00 - [59] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Vs Armour, Yes. But then its supposed to be. thats like asking if the LR is OP vs Shields. an equivalent tier CR vs Shield tanker is pretty terrible. even on a proto skilled minmando with complex DMs and max skills you can struggle to break a well tanked C-I whats 'OP' (technically broken not OP) is the LR's heat build up and damage vs Armour. the damage multiplier for the length of firing the laser needs to really be looked at. it far negates the -20% damage to armour that other laser weapons have to deal with. its the only weapon that still broken and been made more OP due to the effective ranging being brought down from 30m to 5/10m. there isn't really much downside to using the LR now. Laser Rifle is OP? No. Its not. Just. Wow. People will cry about ***** anything. my templar can cut through several armour tankers pretty easily so yeah its pretty OP/Broken. hell my corp mate uses his Viziam on his proto amarr and just laughs as he slices through proto heavies. i've seen him go through 4 suits in less than a clip, no other weapon can do that since the HMGs heat build up got fked over Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2429	Posted - 2015.02.26 15:39:00 - [60] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Vs Armour, Yes. But then its supposed to be. thats like asking if the LR is OP vs Shields. an equivalent tier CR vs Shield tanker is pretty terrible. even on a proto skilled minmando with complex DMs and max skills you can struggle to break a well tanked C-I whats 'OP' (technically broken not OP) is the LR's heat build up and damage vs Armour. the damage multiplier for the length of firing the laser needs to really be looked at. it far negates the -20% damage to armour that other laser weapons have to deal with. its the only weapon that still broken and been made more OP due to the effective ranging being brought down from 30m to 5/10m. there isn't really much downside to using the LR now. Laser Rifle is OP? No. Its not. Just. Wow. People will cry about ***** anything. my templar can cut through several armour tankers pretty easily so yeah its pretty OP/Broken. hell my corp mate uses his Viziam on his proto amarr and just laughs as he slices through proto heavies. i've seen him go through 4 suits in less than a clip, no other weapon can do that since the HMGs heat build up got fked over Have you not heard of skill:power ratio balancing in games? Harder to use items/abilities are more powerful. The LR is one of the harder to use weapons in the game. And extremely situational besides. In its niche, and when used correctly, it roflpwns. Working as intended. Home at Last <3



Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page