DUST Search - Adding Skill to using swarms

Noisywheat wrote:

Night 5talker 514 wrote:

Hey guys,

I'd like to keep this constructive.

Previously I have always been infantry only, but I have quietly been maxing out various vehicle skills and have begun to notice an unbalance. As an infantry guy, I love swarms as they are so easy to use and bully vehicles. However, this discourages a number of players from a really fun part of the game. As both an infantry merc and vehicle merc I think we need to add more skills to the use of AV, specifically swarms. My question to you is how do we do this?

No individual should be able to solo a vehicle, unless good skill is involved. I've heard stories of frustrated people because they couldn't solo kill a tank with a plasma cannon for example. Have you heard of many people IRL managing to solo kill a modern tank??? It should take a small element of skill and team work, say 3 people for example.

My thoughts on the swarms are as follows: Remove lock and make them dumbfire (read a bit further before raging). Then make the missile an anti armour war head with next to no splash because "it's some smart tech that reacts on vehicles etc etc etc" make the missile move rapidly with a range of 200m-250m. This adds skill, removes the problem of AI capabilities. Or make it shoulder mounted mini forgegun. This would add more skill to the use of AV where currently as a user of both the AV and vehicles it is clearly broken.

I understand that we don't have proto vehicles yet we have proto AV. However, this is not something I want to discuss here. I simply want to hear your thoughts on how do we add skill to the use of swarms?

Yes, and then we should tell the General's of the world that using the stinger requires zero skill to use and they should make it require skill.

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Night 5talker 514 Dead Man's Game RUST415 356	Posted - 2015.02.22 00:55:00 - [1] - Quote Hey guys, I'd like to keep this constructive. Previously I have always been infantry only, but I have quietly been maxing out various vehicle skills and have begun to notice an unbalance. As an infantry guy, I love swarms as they are so easy to use and bully vehicles. However, this discourages a number of players from a really fun part of the game. As both an infantry merc and vehicle merc I think we need to add more skills to the use of AV, specifically swarms. My question to you is how do we do this? No individual should be able to solo a vehicle with just unless good skill is involved. I've heard stories of frustrated people because they couldn't solo kill a tank with a plasma cannon for example. It should take a small element of skill and team work, say 3 people for example. My thoughts are, remove lock and make them dumbfire (read a bit further before raging). Then make the missile an anti armour war head with next to no splash because "it's some smart tech that reacts on vehicles etc etc etc" make the missile move rapidly with a range of 200m-250m. This adds skill, removes the problem of AI capabilities. Or make it shoulder mounted mini forgegun. This would add more skill to the use of AV where currently as a user of both the AV and vehicles it is clearly broken. I understand that we don't have proto vehicles yet we have proto AV. However, this is not something I want to discuss here. I simply want to hear your thoughts on how do we add skill to the use of swarms? Gaming Freek DUST 514 YouTube Channel
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 2200	Posted - 2015.02.22 01:00:00 - [2] - Quote Night 5talker 514 wrote: Hey guys, I'd like to keep this constructive. Previously I have always been infantry only, but I have quietly been maxing out various vehicle skills and have begun to notice an unbalance. As an infantry guy, I love swarms as they are so easy to use and bully vehicles. However, this discourages a number of players from a really fun part of the game. As both an infantry merc and vehicle merc I think we need to add more skills to the use of AV, specifically swarms. My question to you is how do we do this? No individual should be able to solo a vehicle, unless good skill is involved. I've heard stories of frustrated people because they couldn't solo kill a tank with a plasma cannon for example. Have you heard of many people IRL managing to solo kill a modern tank??? It should take a small element of skill and team work, say 3 people for example. My thoughts on the swarms are as follows: Remove lock and make them dumbfire (read a bit further before raging). Then make the missile an anti armour war head with next to no splash because "it's some smart tech that reacts on vehicles etc etc etc" make the missile move rapidly with a range of 200m-250m. This adds skill, removes the problem of AI capabilities. Or make it shoulder mounted mini forgegun. This would add more skill to the use of AV where currently as a user of both the AV and vehicles it is clearly broken. I understand that we don't have proto vehicles yet we have proto AV. However, this is not something I want to discuss here. I simply want to hear your thoughts on how do we add skill to the use of swarms? Nobody really wants swarms to be skilled. New Eden is about easy kills of weaker opponents. Who wants some?
Louis Domi Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 867	Posted - 2015.02.22 01:06:00 - [3] - Quote Night 5talker 514 wrote: Hey guys, I'd like to keep this constructive. Previously I have always been infantry only, but I have quietly been maxing out various vehicle skills and have begun to notice an unbalance. As an infantry guy, I love swarms as they are so easy to use and bully vehicles. However, this discourages a number of players from a really fun part of the game. As both an infantry merc and vehicle merc I think we need to add more skills to the use of AV, specifically swarms. My question to you is how do we do this? No individual should be able to solo a vehicle, unless good skill is involved. I've heard stories of frustrated people because they couldn't solo kill a tank with a plasma cannon for example. Have you heard of many people IRL managing to solo kill a modern tank??? It should take a small element of skill and team work, say 3 people for example. My thoughts on the swarms are as follows: Remove lock and make them dumbfire (read a bit further before raging). Then make the missile an anti armour war head with next to no splash because "it's some smart tech that reacts on vehicles etc etc etc" make the missile move rapidly with a range of 200m-250m. This adds skill, removes the problem of AI capabilities. Or make it shoulder mounted mini forgegun. This would add more skill to the use of AV where currently as a user of both the AV and vehicles it is clearly broken. I understand that we don't have proto vehicles yet we have proto AV. However, this is not something I want to discuss here. I simply want to hear your thoughts on how do we add skill to the use of swarms? Reduce knockback effect of swarms on DS so i don't get *** slapped, lower damage, reduce range swarms follow me, or reduce lock on range, or let me out maneuver these *** no skill ***.(I'm doing mid air back flips and barrel rolls they still gets me)
JIMvc2 Consolidated Dust 720	Posted - 2015.02.22 01:10:00 - [4] - Quote I died from the proto rockets and it did 5000 ******* damage = great ccp what a great way to kill my python. ADS dropships are like paper. Buff there HP MAG Raven vet 7 times. Favorite weapon F90 and Highest Kills 78 and 23 deaths.
7 Djin The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 44	Posted - 2015.02.22 01:19:00 - [5] - Quote Buff swarm launcher lock on range it's sad.
Noisywheat Fuurinkasan 3	Posted - 2015.02.22 01:34:00 - [6] - Quote Night 5talker 514 wrote: Hey guys, I'd like to keep this constructive. Previously I have always been infantry only, but I have quietly been maxing out various vehicle skills and have begun to notice an unbalance. As an infantry guy, I love swarms as they are so easy to use and bully vehicles. However, this discourages a number of players from a really fun part of the game. As both an infantry merc and vehicle merc I think we need to add more skills to the use of AV, specifically swarms. My question to you is how do we do this? No individual should be able to solo a vehicle, unless good skill is involved. I've heard stories of frustrated people because they couldn't solo kill a tank with a plasma cannon for example. Have you heard of many people IRL managing to solo kill a modern tank??? It should take a small element of skill and team work, say 3 people for example. My thoughts on the swarms are as follows: Remove lock and make them dumbfire (read a bit further before raging). Then make the missile an anti armour war head with next to no splash because "it's some smart tech that reacts on vehicles etc etc etc" make the missile move rapidly with a range of 200m-250m. This adds skill, removes the problem of AI capabilities. Or make it shoulder mounted mini forgegun. This would add more skill to the use of AV where currently as a user of both the AV and vehicles it is clearly broken. I understand that we don't have proto vehicles yet we have proto AV. However, this is not something I want to discuss here. I simply want to hear your thoughts on how do we add skill to the use of swarms? Yes, and then we should tell the General's of the world that using the stinger requires zero skill to use and they should make it require skill.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 7939	Posted - 2015.02.22 01:53:00 - [7] - Quote When will there be defense provided for non commandos who use swarms given their inherent inability to defend themselves otherwise? As far as I can see, the problem is a LOT larger than Swarms are OP (in some circumstances they are too effective, on others, not nearly effective enough). They are already incredibly ineffective against tanks, as tankers have to be pretty awful to die from swarm fire, unless you commit nearly a quarter of your team to using them all at the same time, which is just ridiculous. AV/Vehicle balance is all over the map and wanting to make one simple change without taking into account the other ramifications really doesn't get us anywhere. If anything, I would rather see two different types of swarms, one for ground vehicles and one for aerial vehicles so we can balance them separately. Even better, we can wait until the new vehicles in place so we can really balance AV without having to redo everything in a few weeks. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 5447	Posted - 2015.02.22 02:01:00 - [8] - Quote Good idea (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game RUST415 295	Posted - 2015.02.22 02:02:00 - [9] - Quote I agree that using swarm is pretty easy. It definitely needs a more skilled mechanic. But as you know, against good tankers, it's really rare to kill them with it. They just have to hit and run, and the DPS of a swarm won't be enough to kill them (which is a good thing). Now you said something that I dont really agree with.. I really don't think that a vehicle player should be killed by more than 1 guy. The price of a good AV suit is equivalent as the one of a decent tank (you'll die many more times with your AV in your hands than inside a tank) so there are no reason why a vehicle player should need 3 others to get killed. It creates a huge imbalance as it'll take 2 more players who SHOULD be AI to be AV, thus letting their team in a bad position. It doesn't follow the reality, but it mustn't do so, or tank would get OP as f*ck! (I hope I was clear enough, English isn't my native langage and it's very late here so forgive meee :3 ) Rise? That's what they used to call me. Sequal Rise. That was my name. Now I come Back to you, at the turn of the tide.
LT SHANKS You In The Nutz 5228	Posted - 2015.02.22 02:08:00 - [10] - Quote Give Dropships an equipment slot that allows them to use chaff. Problem solved and everyone is happy.

danthrax martin Bad Blueberries 302	Posted - 2015.02.22 02:20:00 - [11] - Quote The skill with a/v is surviving. Suicidal A/V Moron I Support Raiding from Landless Corps
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 15704	Posted - 2015.02.22 05:26:00 - [12] - Quote Night 5talker 514 wrote: Have you heard of many people IRL managing to solo kill a modern tank??? Anti-Vehicle weapons (like the FGM-148 Javelin) in the real world will destroy a vehicle in one hit (killing the crew) from 2500m away while also having a locking capability. If we're going for the realistic AV experience, the Swarm Launcher will need quite a few buffs. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 1260	Posted - 2015.02.22 05:30:00 - [13] - Quote Night 5talker 514 wrote: Hey guys, I'd like to keep this constructive. Previously I have always been infantry only, but I have quietly been maxing out various vehicle skills and have begun to notice an unbalance. As an infantry guy, I love swarms as they are so easy to use and bully vehicles. However, this discourages a number of players from a really fun part of the game. As both an infantry merc and vehicle merc I think we need to add more skills to the use of AV, specifically swarms. My question to you is how do we do this? No individual should be able to solo a vehicle, unless good skill is involved. I've heard stories of frustrated people because they couldn't solo kill a tank with a plasma cannon for example. Have you heard of many people IRL managing to solo kill a modern tank??? It should take a small element of skill and team work, say 3 people for example. My thoughts on the swarms are as follows: Remove lock and make them dumbfire (read a bit further before raging). Then make the missile an anti armour war head with next to no splash because "it's some smart tech that reacts on vehicles etc etc etc" make the missile move rapidly with a range of 200m-250m. This adds skill, removes the problem of AI capabilities. Or make it shoulder mounted mini forgegun. This would add more skill to the use of AV where currently as a user of both the AV and vehicles it is clearly broken. I understand that we don't have proto vehicles yet we have proto AV. However, this is not something I want to discuss here. I simply want to hear your thoughts on how do we add skill to the use of swarms? In real life, tanks are not solo vehicles, and yes, one person with an rpg can take it out. Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION 2271	Posted - 2015.02.22 05:33:00 - [14] - Quote Idiot... Why did you feed the trolls with a stupid comment... Rest is OK but will not be the focus anymore. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 15705	Posted - 2015.02.22 05:37:00 - [15] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Idiot... Why did you feed the trolls with a stupid comment... Rest is OK but will not be the focus anymore. You say that as if it wasn't the intent of this thread. If the OP truly wished for this thread to be constructive he would've used the appropriate section. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 1175	Posted - 2015.02.22 05:39:00 - [16] - Quote troll thread? Swarms already been nerfed into the ground, cant be used on infantry or neutral struts, makes you easiest target in the game and can only solo tankers who are sleeping. 0/10 sir. Nemo me impune lacessit CCP - Announcing games at the same time as killing the ones you love CCP - No Credibility
TEBOW BAGGINS 1639	Posted - 2015.02.22 05:39:00 - [17] - Quote well i dont really play anymore outside of forums but have a like
LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION 2271	Posted - 2015.02.22 05:40:00 - [18] - Quote Atiim wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Idiot... Why did you feed the trolls with a stupid comment... Rest is OK but will not be the focus anymore. You say that as if it wasn't the intent of this thread. If the OP truly wished for this thread to be constructive he would've used the appropriate section. 'This true, but not everyone knows that section... Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
TEBOW BAGGINS 1639	Posted - 2015.02.22 05:42:00 - [19] - Quote Noisywheat wrote: Night 5talker 514 wrote: Hey guys, I'd like to keep this constructive. Previously I have always been infantry only, but I have quietly been maxing out various vehicle skills and have begun to notice an unbalance. As an infantry guy, I love swarms as they are so easy to use and bully vehicles. However, this discourages a number of players from a really fun part of the game. As both an infantry merc and vehicle merc I think we need to add more skills to the use of AV, specifically swarms. My question to you is how do we do this? No individual should be able to solo a vehicle, unless good skill is involved. I've heard stories of frustrated people because they couldn't solo kill a tank with a plasma cannon for example. Have you heard of many people IRL managing to solo kill a modern tank??? It should take a small element of skill and team work, say 3 people for example. My thoughts on the swarms are as follows: Remove lock and make them dumbfire (read a bit further before raging). Then make the missile an anti armour war head with next to no splash because "it's some smart tech that reacts on vehicles etc etc etc" make the missile move rapidly with a range of 200m-250m. This adds skill, removes the problem of AI capabilities. Or make it shoulder mounted mini forgegun. This would add more skill to the use of AV where currently as a user of both the AV and vehicles it is clearly broken. I understand that we don't have proto vehicles yet we have proto AV. However, this is not something I want to discuss here. I simply want to hear your thoughts on how do we add skill to the use of swarms? Yes, and then we should tell the General's of the world that using the stinger requires zero skill to use and they should make it require skill. lol noob gtfo with real world comparisons in a match shooter
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 15706	Posted - 2015.02.22 05:43:00 - [20] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Atiim wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Idiot... Why did you feed the trolls with a stupid comment... Rest is OK but will not be the focus anymore. You say that as if it wasn't the intent of this thread. If the OP truly wished for this thread to be constructive he would've used the appropriate section. 'This true, but not everyone knows that section... The section is directly below the General Discussions tab, which makes it impossible to know where the GD forum is but not the FID forum. Even then, the OP has made several posts in FID so he's well aware of where it's located. TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: lol noob gtfo with real world comparisons in a match shooter Says the person who claimed to completely agree with someone's idea despite the fact that said person used real-world comparisons to a lobby shooter to justify said idea no less than 5 minutes ago. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND

LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION 2271	Posted - 2015.02.22 05:48:00 - [21] - Quote Atiim wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Atiim wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Idiot... Why did you feed the trolls with a stupid comment... Rest is OK but will not be the focus anymore. You say that as if it wasn't the intent of this thread. If the OP truly wished for this thread to be constructive he would've used the appropriate section. 'This true, but not everyone knows that section... The section is directly below the General Discussions tab, which makes it impossible to know where the GD forum is but not the FID forum. Even then, the OP has made several posts in FID so he's well aware of where it's located. TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: lol noob gtfo with real world comparisons in a match shooter Says the person who claimed to completely agree with someone's idea despite the fact that said person used real-world comparisons to a lobby shooter to justify said idea no less than 5 minutes ago. Interesting... Silly him then. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
hackerzilla Defenders of the Helghast Dream The Ditanian Alliance 670	Posted - 2015.02.22 06:18:00 - [22] - Quote If tanks didn't drive like rabid space tractors, then maybe they could escape once in a while. Seriously though, the tank controlling sucks, although it may keep the balance for all we know.
castba Rogue Instincts 774	Posted - 2015.02.22 06:24:00 - [23] - Quote There is no "unbalance" OP. Something can be "unbalanced" or have an "imbalance". You are welcome. As an Englishman, I would have thought you would have been across this. "When everything is OP, nothing is" - CCP Ratatti
hold that Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 655	Posted - 2015.02.22 06:24:00 - [24] - Quote a single swarmer can't kill a vehicle, just annoy them. a single forger can kill a vehicle, nerf forge guns
Night 5talker 514 Dead Man's Game RUST415 358	Posted - 2015.02.22 09:28:00 - [25] - Quote Atiim wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Idiot... Why did you feed the trolls with a stupid comment... Rest is OK but will not be the focus anymore. You say that as if it wasn't the intent of this thread. If the OP truly wished for this thread to be constructive he would've used the appropriate section. hehe shhhhhhhhh ;) Gaming Freek DUST 514 YouTube Channel
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 1304	Posted - 2015.02.22 09:33:00 - [26] - Quote Dear op, can u change "swarms" in topic subj to "forums"? Thank you. Please support fair play!
Louis Domi Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 872	Posted - 2015.02.22 11:02:00 - [27] - Quote hold that wrote: a single swarmer can't kill a vehicle, just annoy them. a single forger can kill a vehicle, nerf forge guns Forges take aim to kill and vehicles can out maneuver forges just do an unexpected turn with a tank, or do a barrel roll with a DS, if i get killed by a FG I atleast know I was killed with a person who can aim for themselves. Can't do that stuff with Swarms, also yes a single swarmer can kill a vehicle... Maybe not a double hardened gunlogi, but most things cant kill that anyway.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 821	Posted - 2015.02.22 11:22:00 - [28] - Quote Night 5talker 514 wrote: Have you heard of many people IRL managing to solo kill a modern tank??? It should take a small element of skill and team work, say 3 people for example I agree with making swarms require at least as much skill as everything else, even if it means increasing their damage output... But you just used 'in real life' as an argument, which is meaningless in the context of a very unrealistic game. 1 person with skill should have an even chance against 1 person with skill. I disagree on 3 people to down a vehicle, but most people want to just down a vehicle with ease, without getting into grenade range. I'm sorry but most suits have got grenades, you should have to use at least 1 to down a tank without reloading your swarm/forge. Commando gets 2 slots, you want easy vehicle kill, sacrifice that light weapon slot for another round... Hell, plasma cannon + swarm, down that shield then pummel the armour. Night 5talker 514 wrote: I think we need to add more skills to the use of AV, specifically swarms. Only to swarms, it's the only av that is a problem. - AV and Flux grenades require you to be close-ish and so the easy to land high damage requires good positioning and movement to get there without dieing. - Forge gun requires timing and aiming as well as position, can only be used on a slow suit. - Plasma cannon requires you be suicidal... Needs a buff not a nerf. One Eyed King wrote: When will there be defense provided for non commandos who use swarms given their inherent inability to defend themselves otherwise? Why should there be? You chose to have mobility to chase the vehicle, you sacrifice a light weapon. Does a Forge gunner get movespeed and a light side-arm? There is an answer for both of us here... No a regular suit has to chose fast with a side arm, or slow with a light weapon. However if you want an officer suit, everyone can have a bonus light weapon, heck you can swarm and forge at the same time, or just be an ass with a swarm/light combo... Basically screwing over the commando role in general. One Eyed King wrote: They are already incredibly ineffective against tanks, as tankers have to be pretty awful to die from swarm fire, unless you commit nearly a quarter of your team to using them all at the same time, which is just ridiculous. You could be right here, but I have to ask, when you say 'against tanks' do you mean against a Maddi or a Gunni? Because it's not meant to be good vs shields and there are very few Maddi's driving about. Any that have a crap-ton of reps may be near immune to a single swarmer, but they are screwed vs anything that last in a lot of damage in a short period of time. Sacrificing one thing for another.
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game RUST415 295	Posted - 2015.02.22 11:28:00 - [29] - Quote Louis Domi wrote: Maybe not a double hardened gunlogi, but most things cant kill that anyway. Exactly! Hahaha! Even with a proto swarm prof 4 and proto minmando, gunlogis (STD tanks btw) aren't possible to kill unless they don't know how to ride. Derpships otherwise... well Swarms need to get a bit more skilled on these ones as they can go down pretty fast. But again, these are proto AV vs STD vehicle, let's wait for the new vehicle release before changing anything. Rise? That's what they used to call me. Sequal Rise. That was my name. Now I come Back to you, at the turn of the tide.
anaboop NECROM0NGERS 157	Posted - 2015.02.22 11:34:00 - [30] - Quote Add a dumby proof sequence of buttons needed to be pressed to launch swarms. Fully sick Anaboop trading card



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