DUST Search - Adding Skill to using swarms

Louis Domi wrote:

Night 5talker 514 wrote:

Hey guys,

I'd like to keep this constructive.

Previously I have always been infantry only, but I have quietly been maxing out various vehicle skills and have begun to notice an unbalance. As an infantry guy, I love swarms as they are so easy to use and bully vehicles. However, this discourages a number of players from a really fun part of the game. As both an infantry merc and vehicle merc I think we need to add more skills to the use of AV, specifically swarms. My question to you is how do we do this?

No individual should be able to solo a vehicle, unless good skill is involved. I've heard stories of frustrated people because they couldn't solo kill a tank with a plasma cannon for example. Have you heard of many people IRL managing to solo kill a modern tank??? It should take a small element of skill and team work, say 3 people for example.

My thoughts on the swarms are as follows: Remove lock and make them dumbfire (read a bit further before raging). Then make the missile an anti armour war head with next to no splash because "it's some smart tech that reacts on vehicles etc etc etc" make the missile move rapidly with a range of 200m-250m. This adds skill, removes the problem of AI capabilities. Or make it shoulder mounted mini forgegun. This would add more skill to the use of AV where currently as a user of both the AV and vehicles it is clearly broken.

I understand that we don't have proto vehicles yet we have proto AV. However, this is not something I want to discuss here. I simply want to hear your thoughts on how do we add skill to the use of swarms?

Reduce knockback effect of swarms on DS so i don't get ***** slapped, lower damage, reduce range swarms follow me, or reduce lock on range, or let me out maneuver these ******* no skill *****.(I'm doing mid air back flips and barrel rolls they still gets me)

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 996	Posted - 2015.02.22 12:14:00 - [31] - Quote Earlier I posted an alternative method of adding some player skill requirements to the use of Swarm Launchers by having the missiles launch in the direction where you pointed the SL when you released the missiles. This will require the SL user to angle the missiles properly to get the kill. More information is available here.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 732	Posted - 2015.02.22 12:57:00 - [32] - Quote I could swear half of you guys calling for nefs have never used swarms. They can't insta-pop vehicles, they don't have some incredibly dumb lock range and the user cannot harm another infantryman with their main weapon. Yet because it's an autolock weapon it doesn't require skill? I have yet to see anyone explain why it apparently takes no skill.
JONAHBENHUR WarRavens 94	Posted - 2015.02.22 13:14:00 - [33] - Quote firstly there is no soloing vehicles most times it takes 2-3 at least to get a tank before it runs of and recharges and comes back and kills everyone or worse you and your av buddy get attacked by a bunch of militia scrubs and there goes a 200k suit. Second very rarely do even 3 of the 4 missles hit or both av nades or any combination of the 2 scenarios. and finnally dont compare VG to real life as there is and always have been solo people taking out tanks of any generation from anti-tank rifles to the javelin. "To be a man you must have honor, "HONOR AND A PENIS !!" -shinoske noharu
Louis Domi Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 873	Posted - 2015.02.22 14:11:00 - [34] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: Louis Domi wrote: Maybe not a double hardened gunlogi, but most things cant kill that anyway. Exactly! Hahaha! Even with a proto swarm prof 4 and proto minmando, gunlogis (STD tanks btw) aren't possible to kill unless they don't know how to ride. Derpships otherwise... well Swarms need to get a bit more skilled on these ones as they can go down pretty fast. But again, these are proto AV vs STD vehicle, let's wait for the new vehicle release before changing anything. I want the stats of these new vehicles. Will it only be a different paint job with a bit more pg/cpu? If so, then they better give it one hell of a paint job. Also is ADS considered an ADV DS?
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1787	Posted - 2015.02.22 14:14:00 - [35] - Quote Night 5talker 514 wrote: Adding Skill to using swarms I'd like to keep this constructive. OP, respect for trying to make a constructive thread. Sadly you shot yourself onto leg as you opened the door for the heated topic of 'solo or no soloing vehicles'. I'm gonna ignore all the other things and focus on "Can we make swarms to require more skill?" [IDEA 1: DUMBFIRED BUT HOMING IN] * Missile(s) leave dumb fired and fly straight line, maybe slowish. * When targeting box is used to 'paint' target, all missiles in air wake up and home in on target. Maybe getting a big speed buff. * Missile flight times would be adjusted respectively a lot up. * Whether initial lock-on would be required has to be thought over, and the process of box-painting targets * Whether terrain blocks box-painting or not has to be thought over. Probably yes BUT as long as you get to see red vehicle marker, thru scans of squadmate spotting, probabaly that would be enough. "+" for teamwork. Results: Swarms no longer fire-and-forget. would be possible to fire several rounds up on sky at different angles, and try to make swarms hit the target both from up ignoring cover and maybe, maybe, even get your own swarms to do a volley of near simultaneous hits! A lot of three-dimensional thinking would be required. [IDEA 2: SIMPLE TARGETING BOX CHANGE] * Make the targeting box smaller Results: The firing process would need steadier hand. Not much would change. [IDEA 3: ALTERNATIVE AMMO TYPES] * Right click to swap swarm type or setting. * Shield and armor missiles fired, maybe some others such as dumb or all-purpose Results: would add management to choose the right time to swap ammo, that would mean surveying the target in order for optimal change time. I'd say the idea 1 would be cool, I imagine myself setting swarm babies up or flanking obstacles and then painting the target for added fun and fireworks! The answer
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1762	Posted - 2015.02.22 14:20:00 - [36] - Quote JIMvc2 wrote: I died from the proto rockets and it did 5000 ******* damage = great ccp what a great way to kill my python. ADS dropships are like paper. Buff there HP Give them the flipping 6-10% RoF back.. 3% is a useless AF. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Jack Galen Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 14	Posted - 2015.02.22 14:33:00 - [37] - Quote Louis Domi wrote: Night 5talker 514 wrote: Hey guys, I'd like to keep this constructive. Previously I have always been infantry only, but I have quietly been maxing out various vehicle skills and have begun to notice an unbalance. As an infantry guy, I love swarms as they are so easy to use and bully vehicles. However, this discourages a number of players from a really fun part of the game. As both an infantry merc and vehicle merc I think we need to add more skills to the use of AV, specifically swarms. My question to you is how do we do this? No individual should be able to solo a vehicle, unless good skill is involved. I've heard stories of frustrated people because they couldn't solo kill a tank with a plasma cannon for example. Have you heard of many people IRL managing to solo kill a modern tank??? It should take a small element of skill and team work, say 3 people for example. My thoughts on the swarms are as follows: Remove lock and make them dumbfire (read a bit further before raging). Then make the missile an anti armour war head with next to no splash because "it's some smart tech that reacts on vehicles etc etc etc" make the missile move rapidly with a range of 200m-250m. This adds skill, removes the problem of AI capabilities. Or make it shoulder mounted mini forgegun. This would add more skill to the use of AV where currently as a user of both the AV and vehicles it is clearly broken. I understand that we don't have proto vehicles yet we have proto AV. However, this is not something I want to discuss here. I simply want to hear your thoughts on how do we add skill to the use of swarms? Reduce knockback effect of swarms on DS so i don't get *** slapped, lower damage, reduce range swarms follow me, or reduce lock on range, or let me out maneuver these *** no skill ***.(I'm doing mid air back flips and barrel rolls they still gets me) Now, now I get the frustration, but let's not perpetuate the arrogant pilot stereotype :)
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 118	Posted - 2015.02.22 14:36:00 - [38] - Quote The only thing I've seen get 3 shot (one clipped) from the air is any incubus sub 3k ahp (shields full), or incubi sub 4k [around that, not exact]* (no shields) My only problem with swarms are the ease of use. In the situation where i'll do a simple flyby, the chances of me giving damage points are quite likely (one shot on armor awards the damage points*) and if I do not have AB and make a turn, the possibility of being shot down is high. The next problem is the homing mechanic of the swarms. They are impossible to dodge on pilot skill alone nuff said. The higher speed + looser turning circle makes swarms fly around obstacles one would use as cover. E.G a hill or a building. Also, swarms are impossible to dodge. One can only out run them or block them with something. No matter how violent you can be with the dropship, the swarms will land. How to fix that is what we all should work for, don't you guys agree? Oh, and reduce knock back on the normal dropships... Going nose down in something that stiff is a death sentence if one is sub 150m from the ground. that number is an estimation. The data i used is the ability to be two shot at base ahp (shields depleted) and knowing the damage output of the swarms can exceed 1000 aDamage easily.) **I am awarded damage points at one shot on armor in an air to air situation. I believe the damage points are awarded the same across the board (rail turret on tank: the damage points are awarded close to the same damage as a plasma cannon on tank.) Entering the void and becoming wind. Message for 1v1 air to air
maluble Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 209	Posted - 2015.02.22 15:32:00 - [39] - Quote JIMvc2 wrote: I died from the proto rockets and it did 5000 ******* damage = great ccp what a great way to kill my python. ADS dropships are like paper. Buff there HP Take installations out of the game.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1535	Posted - 2015.02.22 16:18:00 - [40] - Quote Night 5talker 514 wrote: Hey guys, I'd like to keep this constructive. Previously I have always been infantry only, but I have quietly been maxing out various vehicle skills and have begun to notice an unbalance. As an infantry guy, I love swarms as they are so easy to use and bully vehicles. However, this discourages a number of players from a really fun part of the game. As both an infantry merc and vehicle merc I think we need to add more skills to the use of AV, specifically swarms. My question to you is how do we do this? No individual should be able to solo a vehicle, unless good skill is involved. I've heard stories of frustrated people because they couldn't solo kill a tank with a plasma cannon for example. Have you heard of many people IRL managing to solo kill a modern tank??? It should take a small element of skill and team work, say 3 people for example. My thoughts on the swarms are as follows: Remove lock and make them dumbfire (read a bit further before raging). Then make the missile an anti armour war head with next to no splash because "it's some smart tech that reacts on vehicles etc etc etc" make the missile move rapidly with a range of 200m-250m. This adds skill, removes the problem of AI capabilities. Or make it shoulder mounted mini forgegun. This would add more skill to the use of AV where currently as a user of both the AV and vehicles it is clearly broken. I understand that we don't have proto vehicles yet we have proto AV. However, this is not something I want to discuss here. I simply want to hear your thoughts on how do we add skill to the use of swarms? "And by add skill i mean make them more difficult to use without any new buffs to compensate this new difficulty." Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.

Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 6650	Posted - 2015.02.22 16:59:00 - [41] - Quote I heard stories of people soloing a tank in real life. An RPG to the tank gun thing or where the operators sit is a pretty damn effective shot. It might not blow up the tank to oblivion, but it will sure as hell kill whoever is inside.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1844	Posted - 2015.03.12 11:04:00 - [42] - Quote Night 5talker 514 wrote: Hey guys, I'd like to keep this constructive. My hat's off for you, Sir, for trying this. Can of worms indeed. I have some semi-refined ideas originally on a buried thread. Salvaged them to proper Feedback forum, and I present it here as my suggestions. If you like them or hate them or have ideas for improvement, please post there Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
Jammeh McJam New Age Empire. 243	Posted - 2015.03.12 11:14:00 - [43] - Quote danthrax martin wrote: The skill with a/v is surviving. Anyone can survive, it's not hard. I don't understand why swarmers complain about not being able to defend themselves against infantry, maybe you should get good with a sidearm. I honestly don't understand why swarmers say that surviving is a skill. Surviving is just common sense. Besides it seems that most people use swarms because they can't aim with a normal weapon, so maybe the problem is just that some people can't aim and they don't want their lolnoskillswarms to get nerfed "We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends MAG ~ Raven vet
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 921	Posted - 2015.03.12 11:41:00 - [44] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: I could swear half of you guys calling for nefs have never used swarms. They can't insta-pop vehicles, they don't have some incredibly dumb lock range and the user cannot harm another infantryman with their main weapon. Yet because it's an autolock weapon it doesn't require skill? I have yet to see anyone explain why it apparently takes no skill. All the talk of skill from swarm users boils down to "I have to have skill to survive against other infantry." Never mind the idea that Commandos (which are classed as heavy suits) If you told people heavies are running around with light weapons and an powerful AV sidearms are having a problem vs other infantry most people would not have much sympathy for them. To answer your point more directly, When it comes to actually operating the weapon its self, there is no input other than keeping a target in your sights within 175 m range of you. the A.I. and the parameters set by the game developers take over from thier in an either or situation. Either the math is set in the swamers favor and he will always get a hit no matter what the pilot does, or the math is in the pilots favor and the swarmer will never land a hit no matter what the swarmer does. Niether side is happy, swarmers complain "all that pilot had to do was to hit the afterburner" and pilots complain "all they have to do is look at my general direction to hit me halfway across the map" I put up a feedback thread here (sorry OP) to talk about ideas where skill can be introduced for both sides, if you are interested. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
xavier zor 0uter.Heaven 811	Posted - 2015.03.12 12:07:00 - [45] - Quote Make them dumb fire...oh wait that is just an armour version plasma cannon retired stabbed musturd, duna, radar, tibs replying -í° -£-û -í°


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