DUST Search - Brainstorm: Shield recharge

Cat Merc wrote:

duster 35000 wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

duster 35000 wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

It would make shield suits OP as **** lol

No, not really, shields die extremely fast atm, this would at least make shield users be able to fight scr users, and have regen over armor.

Keep in mind shields can be depleted in under a second, so it would be fine.

Let me paint a picture for you.
The average PROTO Cal Assault these days runs 620 shields or so.
That's 4 extenders and an energizer.

The average Gal Assault these days runs around 540-600 armor (depending on the various combinations of reactives, repairers and ferroscales).

Combat Rifles have a -15%/+15% profile.
Now do you see why I laugh when shield users cry about the laser profile?
Ask my Gallente Assault how long I last under combat rifle fire, which is probably the most common rifle on the field right now Roll

If Breakin's suggested were to come to pass, shields would have 52hp/s regen on that suit until fully broken.
Armor would have 22hp/s or so regardless, and you would have to deal with a 4 second delay to get your 52hp/s back.
Ooooh, scary!

You obviously don't play armor, or do it correctly.
My armor suit has over 600 armor and 30 hp/s regen with 300 shields, or 250, no delay on armor regen, no weapon exept the shotty and LR can instakill armor, while almost everything instakills shields.

Also, I have no problem killing cal assaults with my CR, if so, I can easily kill them with a burst AR on my scout fit.

PPS, armor can get repped and has triage hives.

Ha
haha
hahahahaha
So basically, you're the bricked kind of armor tanker that I kill without any effort?

GG, have fun with that fit.

Learn to mobile.

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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7206	Posted - 2015.02.15 04:58:00 - [1] - Quote alright knuckleheads I'm gonna throw out aconcept and we're going to break it, then see if we can put it back together in a semi-balanced way: Shield recharge is the keystone of shield tanking. So let's look at the reps. there's no shield transporter, and I'm willing to bet that's a ways off. So let's look at the two recharge delay penalties. We have two, which seems redundant. So let's assume the only recharge delay we keep is the depleted delay. Regen happens until your shields pop. What breaks? Can you think of a way to mitigate this? Bear in mind the recharge penalty on extenders is a depleted delay penalty, so it doesn't affect the "Your shields are at half" delay. AV
jordy mack WarRavens Capital Punishment. 271	Posted - 2015.02.15 05:05:00 - [2] - Quote make it a low slot mod that reduces ur regen rate but eliminates the delay? Less QQ more PewPew
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7206	Posted - 2015.02.15 05:07:00 - [3] - Quote jordy mack wrote: make it a low slot mod that reduces ur regen rate but eliminates the delay? this is a mental exercise to see if the concept easily breaks under the strain of math. if it doesn't, then well we may have found the buff shields needed. AV
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15636	Posted - 2015.02.15 05:16:00 - [4] - Quote A Shield Extender on an Assault will raise your regen to 40HP/s (maybe 50HP/s on the CalAssault), so you would be negating at most 10% Weapon DPS. It would be a buff to those who quickly shift between cover and would make Shield suits difficult to destroy if you're not a a good shot and keep missing but beyond that I don't see it causing many problems. It might also give the Cal/MinSents an advantage over the Gal/AmSents if there in a place with cover to get behind. Could possibly become a problem if someone decides to stack Enegizers, but that will destroy your CPU to the point where you couldn't make a good fit, and it reduces your potential Shield HP along with reducing your actual HP thanks to the penalty so it wouldn't be viable outside of troll posts. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7206	Posted - 2015.02.15 05:17:00 - [5] - Quote Atiim wrote: A Shield Extender on an Assault will raise your regen to 40HP/s (maybe 50HP/s on the CalAssault), so you would be negating at most 10% Weapon DPS. It would be a buff to those who quickly shift between cover and would make Shield suits difficult to destroy if you're not a a good shot and keep missing but beyond that I don't see it causing many problems. It might also give the Cal/MinSents an advantage over the Gal/AmSents if there in a place with cover to get behind. Could possibly become a problem if someone decides to stack Enegizers, but that will destroy your CPU to the point where you couldn't make a good fit, and it reduces your potential Shield HP along with reducing your actual HP thanks to the penalty so it wouldn't be viable outside of troll posts. extenders don't affect regen rates atiim. Only rechargers and energizers do that. Extenders penalize your depleted delay. AV
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15637	Posted - 2015.02.15 05:19:00 - [6] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Atiim wrote: A Shield Extender on an Assault will raise your regen to 40HP/s (maybe 50HP/s on the CalAssault), so you would be negating at most 10% Weapon DPS. It would be a buff to those who quickly shift between cover and would make Shield suits difficult to destroy if you're not a a good shot and keep missing but beyond that I don't see it causing many problems. It might also give the Cal/MinSents an advantage over the Gal/AmSents if there in a place with cover to get behind. Could possibly become a problem if someone decides to stack Enegizers, but that will destroy your CPU to the point where you couldn't make a good fit, and it reduces your potential Shield HP along with reducing your actual HP thanks to the penalty so it wouldn't be viable outside of troll posts. extenders don't affect regen rates atiim. Only rechargers and energizers do that. Extenders penalize your depleted delay. I meant to type Shield Energizer. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7206	Posted - 2015.02.15 05:30:00 - [7] - Quote what HP/S level breaks the game do you think? AV
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 926	Posted - 2015.02.15 05:34:00 - [8] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: what HP/S level breaks the game do you think? 100hp/s and above is game breaking. If there is only a depeleted delay then it defeats the purpose of tanking. If you run out of shield, you should die because it is your main tank. It's the same with armor. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
Jathniel Ahrendee Mercenaries 1476	Posted - 2015.02.15 05:44:00 - [9] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: alright knuckleheads I'm gonna throw out a concept and we're going to break it, then see if we can put it back together in a semi-balanced way: Shield recharge is the keystone of shield tanking. So let's look at the reps. there's no shield transporter, and I'm willing to bet that's a ways off. So let's look at the two recharge delay penalties. We have two, which seems redundant. So let's assume the only recharge delay we keep is the depleted delay. Regen happens until your shields pop. What breaks? Can you think of a way to mitigate this? Bear in mind the recharge penalty on extenders is a depleted delay penalty, so it doesn't affect the "Your shields are at half" delay. No recharge delay and only depleted delay? All shield suits break. Regen doesn't happen gradually, the regen amount is always steady. If it says it regens at 50 hp/s, it literally gives you an instant fat 50 points of HP every second. Only the animation on the indicator shows a gradual change. Shield suits will break. Especially during direct strafing combat. Shield suits would be invincible to almost all weapons except ones with the highest alpha. Solutions. This can be mitigated by many means: 1. Percentage-based Shield Failure - The total %age of the shield = the total %age of damage deflected from armor. Shields full, zero damage to armor. Shields at 50%, 50% projectile damage bleeds through to armor. Etc. (Demonstrated HERE.) 2. Delayed Recharge Delay - Current recharge delay mechanics don't initiate until total shield %age drops below 50% 3. Aggression Penalty - Shields continue to regen no matter what damage is sustained. But firing your weapon halts the regen, for 0.5 seconds. 4. Flux Penalty - Flux grenades knock shields and regulators offline, AND triple depleted delay. 5. Passive Energy Consumption Penalty - Sprinting, moving, and firing have cumulative effects of reducing regen speed. 30% each. 6. Keep the current recharge delay, and add a damage threshold. Retired
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 2076	Posted - 2015.02.15 05:46:00 - [10] - Quote How about a mod that increases the damage it takes to stop regen. Who wants some?

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7207	Posted - 2015.02.15 05:58:00 - [11] - Quote so at two 25% mods that brings the regen of a calassault up to 50/s roughly. this seems enough to mitigate some fire from a scram if you're not getting hit 100% Given the much deeper HP pools or armor, I'm willing to bet 50-60 regen won't break a lot. this is to see where the sweet spot lies. because there's got to be a way to do this. AV
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 926	Posted - 2015.02.15 06:06:00 - [12] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: so at two 25% mods that brings the regen of a calassault up to 50/s roughly. this seems enough to mitigate some fire from a scram if you're not getting hit 100% Given the much deeper HP pools or armor, I'm willing to bet 50-60 regen won't break a lot. this is to see where the sweet spot lies. because there's got to be a way to do this. This is how an optimal shield tank suit is fit if it helps figure junk out. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7207	Posted - 2015.02.15 06:09:00 - [13] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: so at two 25% mods that brings the regen of a calassault up to 50/s roughly. this seems enough to mitigate some fire from a scram if you're not getting hit 100% Given the much deeper HP pools or armor, I'm willing to bet 50-60 regen won't break a lot. this is to see where the sweet spot lies. because there's got to be a way to do this. This is how an optimal shield tank suit is fit if it helps figure junk out. that's almost identical to the setup I was fiddling with AV
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 926	Posted - 2015.02.15 06:14:00 - [14] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: that's almost identical to the setup I was fiddling with Well this is how most shield tankers suggest fittings to others, it's also my main example to demonstrate that shield tanking isn't that bad. 540 shields you get almost all of it back in 10 seconds I don't see a problem with shield tanking, but maybe someone will point it out to me. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7207	Posted - 2015.02.15 06:25:00 - [15] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: that's almost identical to the setup I was fiddling with Well this is how most shield tankers suggest fittings to others, it's also my main example to demonstrate that shield tanking isn't that bad. 540 shields you get almost all of it back in 10 seconds I don't see a problem with shield tanking, but maybe someone will point it out to me. the problem most people have is the comparatively shallow potential EHP pool combined with the horrendous damage that a viziam laser rifle or scrambler will do to your suit. plasma rifles are just as bad, as is getting caught in a PLC splash. But the simple fact is shield suits can't take as much of a beating. this isn't a problem per se but for example, the base delay of a calassault (non-depleted) is 4 seconds of losing your cool, but if you get your shields completely dumped it's a base of 1 sec. I was thinking if we simply changed the depletedon the suits to the higher values and eliminated the non-depleted somehow it would allow enough mitigation to allow them not to die instantly to a random shieldcracker AV
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 15164	Posted - 2015.02.15 13:54:00 - [16] - Quote It would make shield suits OP as ** lol Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!**
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 263	Posted - 2015.02.15 14:05:00 - [17] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: It would make shield suits OP as **** lol No, not really, shields die extremely fast atm, this would at least make shield users be able to fight scr users, and have regen over armor. Keep in mind shields can be depleted in under a second, so it would be fine. Molestia approved
Powerh8er Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 665	Posted - 2015.02.15 14:37:00 - [18] - Quote Nerds!
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 15164	Posted - 2015.02.15 17:13:00 - [19] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: It would make shield suits OP as ** lol No, not really, shields die extremely fast atm, this would at least make shield users be able to fight scr users, and have regen over armor. Keep in mind shields can be depleted in under a second, so it would be fine. Let me paint a picture for you. The average PROTO Cal Assault these days runs 620 shields or so. That's 4 extenders and an energizer. The average Gal Assault these days runs around 540-600 armor (depending on the various combinations of reactives, repairers and ferroscales). Combat Rifles have a -15%/+15% profile. Now do you see why I laugh when shield users cry about the laser profile? Ask my Gallente Assault how long I last under combat rifle fire Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!**
MrShooter01 Ustio Mercenary Squadron 1367	Posted - 2015.02.15 17:38:00 - [20] - Quote Here's a prototype caldari sentinel I threw together in a minute on protofits (no idea if I did it right since this is my first time making an account on it and saving a fit) 600 hp shields, 123 hp/s recharge, still enough room for a boundless HMG and a complex regulator. Imagine a blob of these fat bastards with a couple of six kin triage logis hanging around Other thing I would be terrified of is the cal scout. I already want to throw my controller when I encounter a 450 HP stickman that only seems to get hit by one out of every ten bullets, I'd be reduced to a weeping bag of tears if I saw every tiny little bit of red on his health bar just disappear while my magazine runs dry

duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 265	Posted - 2015.02.15 20:21:00 - [21] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: duster 35000 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: It would make shield suits OP as **** lol No, not really, shields die extremely fast atm, this would at least make shield users be able to fight scr users, and have regen over armor. Keep in mind shields can be depleted in under a second, so it would be fine. Let me paint a picture for you. The average PROTO Cal Assault these days runs 620 shields or so. That's 4 extenders and an energizer. The average Gal Assault these days runs around 540-600 armor (depending on the various combinations of reactives, repairers and ferroscales). Combat Rifles have a -15%/+15% profile. Now do you see why I laugh when shield users cry about the laser profile? Ask my Gallente Assault how long I last under combat rifle fire, which is probably the most common rifle on the field right now If Breakin's suggested were to come to pass, shields would have 52hp/s regen on that suit until fully broken. Armor would have 22hp/s or so regardless, and you would have to deal with a 4 second delay to get your 52hp/s back. Ooooh, scary! You obviously don't play armor, or do it correctly. My armor suit has over 600 armor and 30 hp/s regen with 300 shields, or 250, no delay on armor regen, no weapon exept the shotty and LR can instakill armor, while almost everything instakills shields. Also, I have no problem killing cal assaults with my CR, if so, I can easily kill them with a burst AR on my scout fit. PPS, armor can get repped and has triage hives. Molestia approved
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 265	Posted - 2015.02.15 20:23:00 - [22] - Quote MrShooter01 wrote: Here's a prototype caldari sentinel I threw together in a minute on protofits (no idea if I did it right since this is my first time making an account on it and saving a fit) 600 hp shields, 123 hp/s recharge, still enough room for a boundless HMG and a complex regulator. Imagine a blob of these fat bastards with a couple of six kin triage logis hanging around Other thing I would be terrified of is the cal scout. I already want to throw my controller when I encounter a 450 HP stickman that only seems to get hit by one out of every ten bullets, I'd be reduced to a weeping bag of tears if I saw every tiny little bit of red on his health bar just disappear while my magazine runs dry You do know 600 shields on an cal heavy is suicide, right? If you go up vs another proto heavy, you WILL lose, assuming it's a good player and not a scrub in a proto fit. Also, this regen wouldn't apply to scouts, and maybe there would be a max passive reps of 80. Molestia approved
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 15164	Posted - 2015.02.15 21:15:00 - [23] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: duster 35000 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: It would make shield suits OP as ** lol No, not really, shields die extremely fast atm, this would at least make shield users be able to fight scr users, and have regen over armor. Keep in mind shields can be depleted in under a second, so it would be fine. Let me paint a picture for you. The average PROTO Cal Assault these days runs 620 shields or so. That's 4 extenders and an energizer. The average Gal Assault these days runs around 540-600 armor (depending on the various combinations of reactives, repairers and ferroscales). Combat Rifles have a -15%/+15% profile. Now do you see why I laugh when shield users cry about the laser profile? Ask my Gallente Assault how long I last under combat rifle fire, which is probably the most common rifle on the field right now If Breakin's suggested were to come to pass, shields would have 52hp/s regen on that suit until fully broken. Armor would have 22hp/s or so regardless, and you would have to deal with a 4 second delay to get your 52hp/s back. Ooooh, scary! You obviously don't play armor, or do it correctly. My armor suit has over 600 armor and 30 hp/s regen with 300 shields, or 250, no delay on armor regen, no weapon exept the shotty and LR can instakill armor, while almost everything instakills shields. Also, I have no problem killing cal assaults with my CR, if so, I can easily kill them with a burst AR on my scout fit. PPS, armor can get repped and has triage hives. Ha haha hahahahaha So basically, you're the bricked kind of armor tanker that I kill without any effort? GG, have fun with that fit. Learn to mobile. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!**
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 15164	Posted - 2015.02.15 21:16:00 - [24] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: MrShooter01 wrote: Here's a prototype caldari sentinel I threw together in a minute on protofits (no idea if I did it right since this is my first time making an account on it and saving a fit) 600 hp shields, 123 hp/s recharge, still enough room for a boundless HMG and a complex regulator. Imagine a blob of these fat bastards with a couple of six kin triage logis hanging around Other thing I would be terrified of is the cal scout. I already want to throw my controller when I encounter a 450 HP stickman that only seems to get hit by one out of every ten bullets, I'd be reduced to a weeping bag of tears if I saw every tiny little bit of red on his health bar just disappear while my magazine runs dry You do know 600 shields on an cal heavy is suicide, right? If you go up vs another proto heavy, you WILL lose, assuming it's a good player and not a scrub in a proto fit. Also, this regen wouldn't apply to scouts, and maybe there would be a max passive reps of 80. At 123hp/s, 600 shields is NOT suicide. This suit would be insane in a fight. It's basically a focused rep that doesn't require two people. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!*
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 266	Posted - 2015.02.15 21:21:00 - [25] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: duster 35000 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: duster 35000 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: It would make shield suits OP as **** lol No, not really, shields die extremely fast atm, this would at least make shield users be able to fight scr users, and have regen over armor. Keep in mind shields can be depleted in under a second, so it would be fine. Let me paint a picture for you. The average PROTO Cal Assault these days runs 620 shields or so. That's 4 extenders and an energizer. The average Gal Assault these days runs around 540-600 armor (depending on the various combinations of reactives, repairers and ferroscales). Combat Rifles have a -15%/+15% profile. Now do you see why I laugh when shield users cry about the laser profile? Ask my Gallente Assault how long I last under combat rifle fire, which is probably the most common rifle on the field right now If Breakin's suggested were to come to pass, shields would have 52hp/s regen on that suit until fully broken. Armor would have 22hp/s or so regardless, and you would have to deal with a 4 second delay to get your 52hp/s back. Ooooh, scary! You obviously don't play armor, or do it correctly. My armor suit has over 600 armor and 30 hp/s regen with 300 shields, or 250, no delay on armor regen, no weapon exept the shotty and LR can instakill armor, while almost everything instakills shields. Also, I have no problem killing cal assaults with my CR, if so, I can easily kill them with a burst AR on my scout fit. PPS, armor can get repped and has triage hives. Ha haha hahahahaha So basically, you're the bricked kind of armor tanker that I kill without any effort? GG, have fun with that fit. Learn to mobile. Actually, my speed is fine, I'm not an idiot to make my srafe speed slow. and goodluck. Molestia approved
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 15165	Posted - 2015.02.15 21:23:00 - [26] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: Actually, my speed is fine, I'm not an idiot to make my srafe speed slow. and goodluck. Tell me what you run then. Two enhanced plates and three armor repairers? Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!*
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 266	Posted - 2015.02.15 21:24:00 - [27] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: duster 35000 wrote: MrShooter01 wrote: Here's a prototype caldari sentinel I threw together in a minute on protofits (no idea if I did it right since this is my first time making an account on it and saving a fit) 600 hp shields, 123 hp/s recharge, still enough room for a boundless HMG and a complex regulator. Imagine a blob of these fat bastards with a couple of six kin triage logis hanging around Other thing I would be terrified of is the cal scout. I already want to throw my controller when I encounter a 450 HP stickman that only seems to get hit by one out of every ten bullets, I'd be reduced to a weeping bag of tears if I saw every tiny little bit of red on his health bar just disappear while my magazine runs dry You do know 600 shields on an cal heavy is suicide, right? If you go up vs another proto heavy, you WILL lose, assuming it's a good player and not a scrub in a proto fit. Also, this regen wouldn't apply to scouts, and maybe there would be a max passive reps of 80. At 123hp/s, 600 shields is NOT suicide. This suit would be insane in a fight. It's basically a focused rep that doesn't require two people. It's suicide because any heavy will instantly kill you, or close to it, and it takes 3 seconds or so to regen, sl goodluck hiding long enough is a heavy is nearby, and not across a hall. If you were talking about if the changes went through, there would be a max regen speed. Molestia approved
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 266	Posted - 2015.02.15 21:25:00 - [28] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: duster 35000 wrote: Actually, my speed is fine, I'm not an idiot to make my srafe speed slow. and goodluck. Tell me what you run then. Two enhanced plates and three armor repairers? 2 complex, I tried 3 complex plates vs 3 enhanced, didn't really notice a difference so 2 complex. I kill alot with it, combat rifle because. Or assault rail rifle if I feel like it. Really I do much better with it than a pure shield tankedncal assault, nothing instakills me and I have great regen, and a hive. Molestia approved
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 926	Posted - 2015.02.15 21:28:00 - [29] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: It's suicide because any heavy will instantly kill you, or close to it, and it takes 3 seconds or so to regen, sl goodluck hiding long enough is a heavy is nearby, and not across a hall. If you were talking about if the changes went through, there would be a max regen speed. It's not suicide my min scout can tank through HMG damage enough to get away with some shields still intact and it only gets 300 shields. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 266	Posted - 2015.02.15 21:29:00 - [30] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: duster 35000 wrote: It's suicide because any heavy will instantly kill you, or close to it, and it takes 3 seconds or so to regen, sl goodluck hiding long enough is a heavy is nearby, and not across a hall. If you were talking about if the changes went through, there would be a max regen speed. It's not suicide my min scout can tank through HMG damage enough to get away with some shields still intact and it only gets 300 shields. A scout...a min scout with higher speed and smaller hitbox. Molestia approved



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