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Jason Pearson
Legio DXIV
4386
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Posted - 2015.02.11 11:09:00 -
[61] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:When did you too come crawling back out of the wood work @jason and lorhak
Hai Pegasis, I came back a couple of days ago, just to shittalk people and laugh at Warlords, you know how it is.
Another player playing the gaaame. |
pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
2003
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Posted - 2015.02.11 11:11:00 -
[62] - Quote
Will need to catch up in game . Took your advise and got into destiny but the pop was crap and the PvE was alright
Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior.
I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
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al nize mk2
No Skillz inc.
320
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Posted - 2015.02.11 11:21:00 -
[63] - Quote
Big Burns wrote:One Eyed King wrote:I don't see any of these benefits being significant enough to be considered P2W.
What is your idea of P2W? CCP released an entire update revolving around this warbarge. The only players that can use it to it's fullest ability, are those who spend money to do so. The others will have to wait 6 months to a year before they start reaping benefits from this warbarge. In the meantime, the players who spent money, are running around with more isk in their pockets and have a great advantage in battle.
And yet it's always been that way no? If you spent your money on Boosters then you had the advantage over someone who didn't. Your stats improved quicker and you won more battles and you gained more isk - along with more SP.
I don't see a difference. it's just another way you can build your merc and if you want to do it quicker - you pay. Having paid an average amount for Dust I don't really feel at a distinct disadvantage to those who've been playing longer and paid more money. I still get plenty of enjoyment from the game - and the ones who are way beyond my level present a challenge that is rarely insurmountable.
What's the point of offering pay items if they aren't going to improve your stats and offer you rewards beyond the 'free' players? I think the balance is pretty good. You pay money - you get better quicker. Those who don't pay money can still beat you - it might be harder but it's not impossible by any stretch of the imagination.
Given how much it would cost someone to skill up to the very top as soon as humanly possible - I don't exactly begrudge them an advantage over me on the field. Particularly as their money is going to keep this game alive.
GÇ£All that I know most surely about morality and obligations I owe to football.GÇ¥
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Sleepy Shadow
Qualified Scrub
274
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Posted - 2015.02.11 13:50:00 -
[64] - Quote
al nize mk2 wrote:And yet it's always been that way no? If you spent your money on Boosters then you had the advantage over someone who didn't. Your stats improved quicker and you won more battles and you gained more isk - along with more SP.
I don't see a difference.
The difference is that boosters do not give you instantaneous SP. You have to either work or wait for them. Passive boosters give you SP effortlessly but in tiny amounts. Active boosters give you more SP but you have to work for it. If you donGÇÖt play for a month while your booster is running, you get exactly 0 SP from it. It is a little different these days as you can stack them, but the principal is still the same.
The Warbarge is a completely different beast. AUR gets you instant rewards, something players not paying can only dream off. Me and my boyfriend downloaded Warlords at the same time. He decided to spend his AUR on the Warbarge while I looked at it with bile in my mouth. He is sitting on 3% damage bonus, has been since the very release of Warlords, and I have just started my two week wait to get enough components to get my factory to level 3 (I think, donGÇÖt remember or care, next level gives me 300 components a day). By the time CCP adds more stuff to the barge, IGÇÖm still probably struggling to level up my barge while my boyfriend can start enjoying the new shiny toys immediately (as he is so far ahead).
If AUR gave you a little boost here or there with the barge it wouldnGÇÖt be such an issue. But as it is now, I would compare the barge to a booster that gave you 3 MIL SP upon purchase. As in, instant jump to take you way ahead of people who do not pay.
=ƒÿ¦
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Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1871
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Posted - 2015.02.11 14:13:00 -
[65] - Quote
Yep She's Dead wrote:Roy Ventus wrote:You can't gain a major advantage through the war barge...
Thus it's not P2W. End of story. It sucks that it's like that but the war argue as it is now doesn't have such a dramatic effect as you're implying. I came to say something constructive but then I saw that the mighty Roy Ventus lives! Hey Roy!! <3
Can't keep a good Fox down lol. I've been more active on the forums recently. Haven't logged in, in forever. Sticking mostly to PC/steam games for now. Btw, have you seen Noein recently?
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
http://royventus.tumblr.com
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Yokal Bob
State of Purgatory
General Tso's Alliance
865
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Posted - 2015.02.11 14:32:00 -
[66] - Quote
So people get a bit more sp and isk. sp doesn't matter in this game now, it does when your reletivley new but afterwards its just to get more suits.
also, the isk generated probably won't even cover the cost of 1 of my logi suits (lvl 2 is what 62k per day?) so no proto suit at all.
the ability to run proto does not mean you will win every encounter
this game is still very much based upon skill, teamwork and luck.
the ability to buy aur just saves you a little isk, nothing else.
not p2w
Vote Dust for PS4
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Yokal Bob
State of Purgatory
General Tso's Alliance
865
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Posted - 2015.02.11 14:36:00 -
[67] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:Yep She's Dead wrote:Roy Ventus wrote:You can't gain a major advantage through the war barge...
Thus it's not P2W. End of story. It sucks that it's like that but the war argue as it is now doesn't have such a dramatic effect as you're implying. I came to say something constructive but then I saw that the mighty Roy Ventus lives! Hey Roy!! <3 Can't keep a good Fox down lol. I've been more active on the forums recently. Haven't logged in, in forever. Sticking mostly to PC/steam games for now. Btw, have you seen Noein recently?
ROY! yo man, how you been? saw your sticking to PC games, you got minecraft? if so join me on the lichcraft server (details on the web). As always im on my character name yokal bob :)
Vote Dust for PS4
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pumping up
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
203
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Posted - 2015.02.11 15:50:00 -
[68] - Quote
If you hand't blown all AUR to remove the cooldowns. You would have a much better war barge.
Help me gain the C-II Dropsuit
Pilot & Saboteur
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Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1871
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Posted - 2015.02.11 15:55:00 -
[69] - Quote
Yokal Bob wrote:Roy Ventus wrote:Yep She's Dead wrote:Roy Ventus wrote:You can't gain a major advantage through the war barge...
Thus it's not P2W. End of story. It sucks that it's like that but the war argue as it is now doesn't have such a dramatic effect as you're implying. I came to say something constructive but then I saw that the mighty Roy Ventus lives! Hey Roy!! <3 Can't keep a good Fox down lol. I've been more active on the forums recently. Haven't logged in, in forever. Sticking mostly to PC/steam games for now. Btw, have you seen Noein recently? ROY! yo man, how you been? saw your sticking to PC games, you got minecraft? if so join me on the lichcraft server (details on the web). As always im on my character name yokal bob :)
Yeah. Only sticking to PC games since I'm having connection issues with my actual PS3. You have a steam account? My account is royventus/roy_ventus. I don't play as often as I wish I could but you can catch me on there sometimes playing Unturned (minecraft with zombies and guns, essentially), or Dota (>:D Dragon Knighting it up on that mofo). :V I'd have more games if I played more often with friends lol.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
http://royventus.tumblr.com
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Big Burns
0uter.Heaven
590
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Posted - 2015.02.11 15:56:00 -
[70] - Quote
Wow. This thread is still going?
Dust514- 90% L3 / 10% R1
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Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
Caldari State
943
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Posted - 2015.02.11 16:01:00 -
[71] - Quote
This argument has been dismantled many many times on these forums.
A paywall is - content which you cannot have acces to at all without paying for. Dust has no paywalls.
This mechanism is , everyone gets access to the same content, be it skill points, suits, weapons , but just at different rates. You can play Dust 514 without spending a cent but don't expect to be running proto suits and the best weapons at the same time as everyone else.
And lastly, it's a business model - meaning, it's there to make money. It's just a different model as opposed to the subscription model. |
Big Burns
0uter.Heaven
590
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Posted - 2015.02.11 16:03:00 -
[72] - Quote
Justicar Karnellia wrote:This argument has been dismantled many many times on these forums.
A paywall is - content which you cannot have acces to at all without paying for. Dust has no paywalls.
This mechanism is , everyone gets access to the same content, be it skill points, suits, weapons , but just at different rates. You can play Dust 514 without spending a cent but don't expect to be running proto suits and the best weapons at the same time as everyone else.
And lastly, it's a business model - meaning, it's there to make money. It's just a different model as opposed to the subscription model.
Yes it does. You can't get 30 day boosters out of salvage. You have to buy them. You can't get Abyss drop uplinks with a -47.65 timer on them, out of salvage. You have to buy both of these^
Dust514- 90% L3 / 10% R1
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
11000
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Posted - 2015.02.11 16:13:00 -
[73] - Quote
Big Burns wrote:
[...]
In order for someone to get everything that I have now, without spending aurum, it would take them roughly 6 months. It's freaking ridiculous. Dust is officially Pay-to-win.
[...]
Crazy man.
/*sigh*
If there is ANY WAY with which a player can achieve the same thing without having to pay anything other than just time then it is not pay to win. Pay to Win requires that what you paid for in cash can't be obtained any other way.
If you count time as part of pay to win then by that logic even free players who never paid any AUR have been doing pay to win since forever because they spent time playing the game. Do you see the flaw in this logic?
Also, the warbarge is extremely passive. It's not meant to be your primary source of income just like how Planetary Interaction is in Eve Online. It's one of those setup-and-forget kind of things and only check back once a day to collect. I don't care if it takes me 6 months to get to your level. I'll get there eventually without paying any AUR for the warbarge components. And yes, even a family man can have the patience for it. Remember, it's a setup-and-forget feature.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
11000
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Posted - 2015.02.11 16:17:00 -
[74] - Quote
Big Burns wrote:Justicar Karnellia wrote:This argument has been dismantled many many times on these forums.
A paywall is - content which you cannot have acces to at all without paying for. Dust has no paywalls.
This mechanism is , everyone gets access to the same content, be it skill points, suits, weapons , but just at different rates. You can play Dust 514 without spending a cent but don't expect to be running proto suits and the best weapons at the same time as everyone else.
And lastly, it's a business model - meaning, it's there to make money. It's just a different model as opposed to the subscription model. Yes it does. You can't get 30 day boosters out of salvage. You have to buy them. You can't get Abyss drop uplinks with a -47.65 timer on them, out of salvage. You have to buy both of these^
Source:
https://trello.com/b/R44szWCe/dust-514-development-roadmap
According to CCP Rattati's Trello board, Simple Trading will be coming in 1.1 (next update). That feature alone will obliterate any and all claims of pay to win.
EDIT: Eve Online's PLEX is the same thing. CCP earns money from PLEX sales, seller earns ISK from selling PLEX, and buyer gets PLEX for paying ISK. Everyone wins all because of trade.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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REDBACK96USMC
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
129
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Posted - 2015.02.11 16:50:00 -
[75] - Quote
[/quote]
I'm not going to sit here and argue with you. At this point, if I said the sky was blue, you would insist that it's green. [/quote]
Actually the sky is no color. The refraction of sunlight through the various molecules in the air give it the blue tint. :-P
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Big Burns
0uter.Heaven
593
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Posted - 2015.02.11 16:54:00 -
[76] - Quote
I'm not going to sit here and argue with you. At this point, if I said the sky was blue, you would insist that it's green. [/quote]
Actually the sky is no color. The refraction of sunlight through the various molecules in the air give it the blue tint. :-P
[/quote]
...^_^ Either I"m getting way to good at this, or this guy is way too easy.
Dust514- 90% L3 / 10% R1
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Dreis Shadowweaver
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
1941
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Posted - 2015.02.11 17:19:00 -
[77] - Quote
Well, I read the first page; I assume there's more sh*t-flinging?
Anyway, all I know is that the warbarge is hardly helpful to new players, even though that was supposed to be a big part of it. Mainly, the warbarge just increases the gap between vets and newbs (especially the +5% to damage, which was a terrible idea). I'm ashamed of CCP; it feels like they only care about the money.
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
You got gud - DAAAA BEAST
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GunGoesRawR
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2015.02.11 18:33:00 -
[78] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:It is much less pay to win than what already existed. I could get a combat pack and have access to proto gear in my first week that would gibe me a greater advantage than the warbarge supplies.
See that was cool for me joining the game. Yes someone has a proto weapon or suit. But in a week of grinding I could get a decent weapon... A few weeks I could grab a suit.
And in this time I would learn how to use the weapon and suit.
This is a reasonable time line to do things in a game that is a FPS-MMORPG like environment(Is 32 player instanced matches really MMO?)
But for this warbarge to take full affect to those who just bought their way to the advantage,
It would take 6 months-1year+
That is unreasonable by any stretch of the imagination.
Take yourself out of your shoes and you pre conceived perceptions. Now try and sell that 6 month-1 year Timeline to one of your friends.
Explain that people will have a 5% damage bonus and can run expensive gear and have more money then you because they payed for an advantage that you can't get for 6 months-1year.
Say DUST 514 makes it 1 year from this point.. How do you sell this feature futther to a new player who is already at an extreme disadvantage to even wanting to progress much further then the battle academy?
How can DUST 514 ever grow if the new player is continuously put on a disadvantage because of poorly thought out concepts, trying to milk cash from an already tiny player base instead of trying to expand the market base or your player base you are selling your product to?
Why not fancy color guns and all kinds of suit and vehicle colors not introduced in this game years ago? If monetization was such an issue... Why not let you customize the color of what you have to the length in which we can customize our modules?
Why not pump up the Faction warfare Item list... Have more items then a few equipment and guns perform better... Sell more Faction Warfare boosters.. Pump up the Matchmaking and get more people playing that.
Why take a feature so wifely talked about as hope for a future with the DUST 514 product and make it such an easy target for controversy?
I For one am done. I Cannot stand by and support this product any longer. I Went out and bought a PS4 and will be moving on.
Thanks for all the fish. I'm out.   |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3184
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Posted - 2015.02.11 18:37:00 -
[79] - Quote
The 5% damage bonus does seem to me to be too large an advantage for those who choose to pay. Sure, it's an advantage a non-paying player can gain through grinding -- but the time horizon is too long, IMO. I'm all for monetizing this game and making it successful, but this one seems to be to be a bit much. Warbarge damage increase was a bad idea, IMO. |
pumping up
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
207
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Posted - 2015.02.11 18:53:00 -
[80] - Quote
pay2win isn't a binary thing. It's not totally pay2win or the inverse of that.
Pay2Win is a spectrum. The warbarge is quite more sloped towards the pay2win end of it.
Help me gain the C-II Dropsuit
Pilot & Saboteur
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Yep She's Dead
Dreadful honor
48
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Posted - 2015.02.11 20:47:00 -
[81] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:Yep She's Dead wrote:Roy Ventus wrote:You can't gain a major advantage through the war barge...
Thus it's not P2W. End of story. It sucks that it's like that but the war argue as it is now doesn't have such a dramatic effect as you're implying. I came to say something constructive but then I saw that the mighty Roy Ventus lives! Hey Roy!! <3 Can't keep a good Fox down lol. I've been more active on the forums recently. Haven't logged in, in forever. Sticking mostly to PC/steam games for now. Btw, have you seen Noein recently?
Mish and I just played with Nick and Noein the other day. The two of us stay on PC gaming as well; just came back to get the most of this key event but we're gonna fade out like we did before I'll float you a Steam message, if that's cool. I miss our old little group.
And sorry OP <3 Didn't mean to turn your topic into a pow-wow.
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JL3Eleven
Ancient Exiles.
2149
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Posted - 2015.02.11 21:05:00 -
[82] - Quote
Wait till people realize while they are just getting to the damage bonus after 6 months of waiting, I will have been collecting 4 officer/experimental weapons a day that whole time not to mention the SP, and they are still two subunits away lol.
Edit: That's 720 Officer/Experimental items btw.
Can I haz ur ISK?
Do you have officer gear or rare items to sell or trade? Message me in game with details.
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Niuvo
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1444
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Posted - 2015.02.11 21:30:00 -
[83] - Quote
I'll wait. |
Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1883
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Posted - 2015.02.12 02:52:00 -
[84] - Quote
Yep She's Dead wrote:Roy Ventus wrote:Yep She's Dead wrote:Roy Ventus wrote:You can't gain a major advantage through the war barge...
Thus it's not P2W. End of story. It sucks that it's like that but the war argue as it is now doesn't have such a dramatic effect as you're implying. I came to say something constructive but then I saw that the mighty Roy Ventus lives! Hey Roy!! <3 Can't keep a good Fox down lol. I've been more active on the forums recently. Haven't logged in, in forever. Sticking mostly to PC/steam games for now. Btw, have you seen Noein recently? Mish and I just played with Nick and Noein the other day. The two of us stay on PC gaming as well; just came back to get the most of this key event but we're gonna fade out like we did before I'll float you a Steam message, if that's cool. I miss our old little group. And sorry OP <3 Didn't mean to turn your topic into a pow-wow.
It's alright >:D I've been trying to get my friends from another site to play with me on steam. Tell Mish I said, "HEY MISHMASH." Does Noein play steam or is he only a PS4? >.> I guess you can just message me on Steam lol. I did the same thing to Nick the other day lol. Just stopped a thread and shouted him out. :V OP probably don't care tho, at least we bumping his thread for him.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
http://royventus.tumblr.com
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