DUST Search - Do you think it´s fair...

Myron Kundera wrote:

That of all the main rifles (AR, CR, RR and SCR), only the CR can cancel its main drawback with equipment (ammo hive).

Let me elaborate and correct me if im wrong but, the drawbacks of the mentioned rifles (AR, CR, RR and SCR) are as follows:

AR- Lowest optimal range.

CR- Extremely fast ammo consumption (which in my opinion it-¦s not a calculated drawback, but a consequence of its insane ROF).

RR- Spool time to shoot.

SCR- Overheating feature that deals damage.

Now, of the mentioned drawbacks, you can only cancel the CR drawback with equipment (ammo hive), therefore not being balanced with the rest of the mentioned rifles, considering there is no module or equipment that improves optimal range on rifles, there is no module or equipment that reduces spool time and finally, there is no module or equipment that reduces overheating feature.

Quote:

Even worse, only the Minmatar and Amarr have dropsuits (assault variants) that decrease the drawback of the CR and SCR, therefore leaving the AR and RR in an unbalanced state when facing Minmatar Assaults with CR and Amarr Assaults with SCR.

In a nutshell, we need to change the Gallente Assault bonus to an optimal range bonus and the Caldari Assault needs a reduction on spool time. Also, we need to change the drawback of the CR, since it-¦s the only one that can be canceled with equipment.

Any ideas in which would be a good penalty or drawback for the CR that can-¦t be canceled with equipment?

This is not a QQ thread, it-¦s just pointing out the obvious, the CR has an edge over the other rifle variants cause it can reduce CONSIDERABLY it-¦s drawback with equipment and an assault suit, while the rest of the rifles can-¦t use equipment or modules that reduce drawbacks, with the exception of the SCR, which has the Amarr assault suit.

(This makes me understand why Minmatar Assault and Amarr Assault are much better suits than Gallente Assault and Caldari Assaults with the rifles in question).

Opinions?

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Myron Kundera UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 157	Posted - 2015.02.04 18:07:00 - [1] - Quote That of all the main rifles (AR, CR, RR and SCR), only the CR can cancel its main drawback with equipment (ammo hive). Let me elaborate and correct me if im wrong but, the drawbacks of the mentioned rifles (AR, CR, RR and SCR) are as follows: AR- Lowest optimal range. CR- Extremely fast ammo consumption (which in my opinion it-¦s not a calculated drawback, but a consequence of its insane ROF). RR- Spool time to shoot. SCR- Overheating feature that deals damage. Now, of the mentioned drawbacks, you can only cancel the CR drawback with equipment (ammo hive), therefore not being balanced with the rest of the mentioned rifles, considering there is no module or equipment that improves optimal range on rifles, there is no module or equipment that reduces spool time and finally, there is no module or equipment that reduces overheating feature. Even worse, only the Minmatar and Amarr have dropsuits (assault variants) that decrease the drawback of the CR and SCR, therefore leaving the AR and RR in an unbalanced state when facing Minmatar Assaults with CR and Amarr Assaults with SCR. In a nutshell, we need to change the Gallente Assault bonus to an optimal range bonus and the Caldari Assault needs a reduction on spool time. Also, we need to change the drawback of the CR, since it-¦s the only one that can be canceled with equipment. Any ideas in which would be a good penalty or drawback for the CR that can-¦t be canceled with equipment? This is not a QQ thread, it-¦s just pointing out the obvious, the CR has an edge over the other rifle variants cause it can reduce CONSIDERABLY it-¦s drawback with equipment and an assault suit, while the rest of the rifles can-¦t use equipment or modules that reduce drawbacks, with the exception of the SCR, which has the Amarr assault suit. (This makes me understand why Minmatar Assault and Amarr Assault are much better suits than Gallente Assault and Caldari Assaults with the rifles in question). Opinions? "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
gekko k Grundstein Automation Property of Negative-Impact 2	Posted - 2015.02.04 18:15:00 - [2] - Quote AR short range drawback can be cancelled with equipment: scanner. Wait until enemy is in range before engaging. RR spool time can be cancelled with cover. Spool up behind cover and then pop out when firing. Cover is universal, which makes this too powerful. Better make the other weapons balanced behind cover too. SCR overheating can be cancelled with a triage hive allowing them to shoot until they hurt themselves. That's not fair.
Ghosts Chance New Eden Headhunters 2891	Posted - 2015.02.04 18:17:00 - [3] - Quote the modue/equipment that reduces the overheating feature of the scrambler... is the amaar assault suit Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind" I am Chances Ghost
Assert Dominance Ahrendee Mercenaries 818	Posted - 2015.02.04 18:20:00 - [4] - Quote the CR range is just as bad as the AR LogicGäó
Myron Kundera UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 157	Posted - 2015.02.04 18:22:00 - [5] - Quote gekko k wrote: AR short range drawback can be cancelled with equipment: scanner. Wait until enemy is in range before engaging. RR spool time can be cancelled with cover. Spool up behind cover and then pop out when firing. Cover is universal, which makes this too powerful. Better make the other weapons balanced behind cover too. SCR overheating can be cancelled with a triage hive allowing them to shoot until they hurt themselves. That's not fair. Even so, dropping an ammo hive and standing on it is something you control, the things you mention rely on things you dont control (enemy getting closer, you don-¦t always have cover and yes, you control the triage hive deployment, but it does not allow you to fire the SCR endlessly without overheating, the drawbackf of the SCR is the overheat feature, not the damage). "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 9446	Posted - 2015.02.04 18:22:00 - [6] - Quote Assert Dominance wrote: the CR range is just as bad as the AR Loooooooooooooooooool *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente HAV name!* *~Democracy will win!*
Myron Kundera UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 157	Posted - 2015.02.04 18:23:00 - [7] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: the modue/equipment that reduces the overheating feature of the scrambler... is the amaar assault suit Amarr assault is a dropsuit; module and equipment are something completely different...you serious? "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
Myron Kundera UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 157	Posted - 2015.02.04 18:25:00 - [8] - Quote Assert Dominance wrote: the CR range is just as bad as the AR No, i don-¦t think so. CR has better optimal than AR, 100% sure of this. "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
Assert Dominance Ahrendee Mercenaries 818	Posted - 2015.02.04 18:27:00 - [9] - Quote i use all light weapons and base it off of experience not numbers. im not saying CR has more range, im saying its not much better. LogicGäó
Dreis Shadowweaver T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 1913	Posted - 2015.02.04 18:37:00 - [10] - Quote Assert Dominance wrote: i use all light weapons and base it off of experience not numbers. im not saying CR has more range, im saying its not much better. It's also got a better damage profile and is better in CQC (At least the assault is). Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3 You got gud - DAAAA BEAST

robin williams' ghost whisky tango foxtrot sir 778	Posted - 2015.02.04 18:37:00 - [11] - Quote Don't forget the cr is god awful at taking down shields. Ain't no equipment out there to negate that. Robin Williams endorses this corp
Ghosts Chance New Eden Headhunters 2892	Posted - 2015.02.04 18:37:00 - [12] - Quote Myron Kundera wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: the modue/equipment that reduces the overheating feature of the scrambler... is the amaar assault suit Amarr assault is a dropsuit; module and equipment are something completely different...you serious? no... wait... are YOU serious? beacuase i thought this was a troll thread Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind" I am Chances Ghost
RayRay James State of Purgatory General Tso's Alliance 981	Posted - 2015.02.04 18:40:00 - [13] - Quote robin williams' ghost wrote: Don't forget the cr is god awful at taking down shields. Ain't no equipment out there to negate that. flux grenades not specifically equipment (as in slot) but perfect at negating those pesky shields
robin williams' ghost whisky tango foxtrot sir 779	Posted - 2015.02.04 18:44:00 - [14] - Quote RayRay James wrote: robin williams' ghost wrote: Don't forget the cr is god awful at taking down shields. Ain't no equipment out there to negate that. flux grenades not specifically equipment (as in slot) but perfect at negating those pesky shields Meh. I'm a scrub. I use core locus nades. Robin Williams endorses this corp
Heimdallr69 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 4556	Posted - 2015.02.04 18:51:00 - [15] - Quote The RR has a spool time and is meant to be long range yet the ads is all over the place. Long range weapons don't have accuracy problems especially if it has to spool before shooting idk why they did that. AR isn't king of cqc the breach is but the acr outperforms it there. SCR might be a bit OP but the ASCR could use a slight buff or at least tune down its brightness, burns my eyes =ƒÿ¬ Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 3209	Posted - 2015.02.04 20:01:00 - [16] - Quote "You can get more ammo" doesn't change the fact that the weapon still has a fairly small clip size so you potentially be in a terrible spot even if you are on a Nanohive. The only thing that you can say for sure is just how badly the Assaults are balanced in that the disadvantages of the Combat Rifle and Scrambler Rifle are lessened while the Rail Rifle and Plasma Rifle are not lessened by their racial suits. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Ku Shala UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 1204	Posted - 2015.02.04 20:02:00 - [17] - Quote most of you seem to miss the point of this thread the bonus to the amarr and minmatar assaults bonus negates the downfall of their own racial rifle. the CR doesnt lack ammo all rifles at basic have 6 clips and the combat rifle has the second highest dps so your going to burn ammo faster CR @540hp/s compared to RR @361.54/s AR @ 412/s and Scr @ 650/s. all rifles have damage profiling either better against shield or armour so thats out too. the highest dps weapons get the best bonus to the assaults and the highest dps weapons have the least kick and most accuracy, am I the only person that see this as unbalanced? *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (CK-0 Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist Superior technology will privale.
m621 zma 262	Posted - 2015.02.04 20:12:00 - [18] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: most of you seem to miss the point of this thread the bonus to the amarr and minmatar assaults bonus negates the downfall of their own racial rifle. the CR doesnt lack ammo all rifles at basic have 6 clips and the combat rifle has the second highest dps so your going to burn ammo faster CR @540hp/s compared to RR @361.54/s AR @ 412/s and Scr @ 650/s. all rifles have damage profiling either better against shield or armour so thats out too. the highest dps weapons get the best bonus to the assaults and the highest dps weapons have the least kick and most accuracy, am I the only person that see this as unbalanced? Lol, the Min bonus gives you something like 6 extra rounds a clip.
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 2053	Posted - 2015.02.04 20:37:00 - [19] - Quote Huh interdasting Master Skyshark rider Kaalaka dakka tamer
diablo gamekeeper Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2015.02.04 20:46:00 - [20] - Quote Quote: Myron Kundera wrote: That of all the main rifles (AR, CR, RR and SCR), only the CR can cancel its main drawback with equipment (ammo hive). Let me elaborate and correct me if im wrong but, the drawbacks of the mentioned rifles (AR, CR, RR and SCR) are as follows: AR- Lowest optimal range. CR- Extremely fast ammo consumption (which in my opinion it-¦s not a calculated drawback, but a consequence of its insane ROF). RR- Spool time to shoot. SCR- Overheating feature that deals damage. Now, of the mentioned drawbacks, you can only cancel the CR drawback with equipment (ammo hive), therefore not being balanced with the rest of the mentioned rifles, considering there is no module or equipment that improves optimal range on rifles, there is no module or equipment that reduces spool time and finally, there is no module or equipment that reduces overheating feature. Quote: Even worse, only the Minmatar and Amarr have dropsuits (assault variants) that decrease the drawback of the CR and SCR, therefore leaving the AR and RR in an unbalanced state when facing Minmatar Assaults with CR and Amarr Assaults with SCR. In a nutshell, we need to change the Gallente Assault bonus to an optimal range bonus and the Caldari Assault needs a reduction on spool time. Also, we need to change the drawback of the CR, since it-¦s the only one that can be canceled with equipment. Any ideas in which would be a good penalty or drawback for the CR that can-¦t be canceled with equipment? This is not a QQ thread, it-¦s just pointing out the obvious, the CR has an edge over the other rifle variants cause it can reduce CONSIDERABLY it-¦s drawback with equipment and an assault suit, while the rest of the rifles can-¦t use equipment or modules that reduce drawbacks, with the exception of the SCR, which has the Amarr assault suit. (This makes me understand why Minmatar Assault and Amarr Assault are much better suits than Gallente Assault and Caldari Assaults with the rifles in question). Opinions? Did you just say RR is unbalanced? it is overpowered anywhere, close range long range doesnt matter where.

Myron Kundera UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 162	Posted - 2015.02.04 22:06:00 - [21] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Myron Kundera wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: the modue/equipment that reduces the overheating feature of the scrambler... is the amaar assault suit Amarr assault is a dropsuit; module and equipment are something completely different...you serious? no... wait... are YOU serious? beacuase i thought this was a troll thread Im very serious, why would you think this is a troll thread? "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
Louis Domi Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 819	Posted - 2015.02.04 22:09:00 - [22] - Quote I don't have a problem with RR spool time, maybe make it so every level you get an added 2-5% added range on all rail weaponry.
Myron Kundera UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 162	Posted - 2015.02.04 22:18:00 - [23] - Quote Ok, i have read some derailings on the topic. Ill try to fix this. CR penalty is REDUCED GREATLY by using an equipment (ammo hive). The other rifles can-¦t use modules or equipment to reduce their own pentalties, therefore, the CR has a very clear advantage on all the other rifles. In order to balance them, CR should get a different pentaly that can-¦t be reduced with equipment (losing ammo fast because of high ROF is a consequence, not a disadvantage per se). "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
P14GU3 Savage Bullet 1213	Posted - 2015.02.04 22:46:00 - [24] - Quote The disadvantage of the CR is NOT lack of ammo per se, but that it has to reload every 5 secs. If you reload in the middle of a gunfight, you are screwed. This cannot be solved with a nanohive. All of the rifles are actually outperformed by the RR and ARR at the moment. the laser is the only rifle that can compete with the range of the RR, yet it has nowhere near the CQC ability of the RR. ScR and CR are mid-range, yet the RR performs just as well at mid-range. AR is supposed to be the CQC king, but everyone knows both the ARR and CR outperform it in that range. ScR seems to be the only balanced rifle, and yet it seems to perform a little to well in CQC, while not having the range that it should (I blame lack of sharpshooter skill.) 'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
xavier zor Rogue Instincts 528	Posted - 2015.02.04 23:11:00 - [25] - Quote gekko k wrote: AR short range drawback can be cancelled with equipment: scanner. Wait until enemy is in range before engaging. RR spool time can be cancelled with cover. Spool up behind cover and then pop out when firing. Cover is universal, which makes this too powerful. Better make the other weapons balanced behind cover too. SCR overheating can be cancelled with a triage hive allowing them to shoot until they hurt themselves. That's not fair. I hope this is a troll post, because this is a ridiculous post RR is just terrible SCR overheat is countered by the amarr assault's bonus CR is countered by the minmitar assault's bonus AR is countered by the gallante assault bonus and the dispersion skill. looking for PC corporation also looking for lonely heavies to knife >:) heavies looking for me
xavier zor Rogue Instincts 528	Posted - 2015.02.04 23:13:00 - [26] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: ScR seems to be the only balanced rifle, and yet it seems to perform a little to well in CQC, while not having the range that it should (I blame lack of sharpshooter skill.) The SCR has an awesome range, more than i expected when i skilled into it. The RR just sucks, period and the ARR is the only decent rail type weapon. Bolt pistol is a pocket sniper They nerf the RR hipfire, makes the weapon pretty much useless unless you want to spend your life using a sidearm to hipfire looking for PC corporation also looking for lonely heavies to knife >:) heavies looking for me
Myron Kundera UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 165	Posted - 2015.02.05 17:09:00 - [27] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: The disadvantage of the CR is NOT lack of ammo per se, but that it has to reload every 5 secs. If you reload in the middle of a gunfight, you are screwed. This cannot be solved with a nanohive. All of the rifles are actually outperformed by the RR and ARR at the moment. the laser is the only rifle that can compete with the range of the RR, yet it has nowhere near the CQC ability of the RR. ScR and CR are mid-range, yet the RR performs just as well at mid-range. AR is supposed to be the CQC king, but everyone knows both the ARR and CR outperform it in that range. ScR seems to be the only balanced rifle, and yet it seems to perform a little to well in CQC, while not having the range that it should (I blame lack of sharpshooter skill.) I disagree, the lack of ammo IS the disadvantage imo, thats why the Minmatar Assault gets an ammo bonus and not a reload speed bonus. You empty your clip faster than other rifles cause of the insane ROF on the CR, but you also deal your damage faster than the other rifles cause your ROF is higher, therefore, i insist that a new disadvantage must be placed on the CR, considering ammo consumption is a consequence of high ROF and not a hindrance per se. "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
All Gucci T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 184	Posted - 2015.02.05 17:23:00 - [28] - Quote gekko k wrote: AR short range drawback can be cancelled with equipment: scanner. Wait until enemy is in range before engaging. RR spool time can be cancelled with cover. Spool up behind cover and then pop out when firing. Cover is universal, which makes this too powerful. Better make the other weapons balanced behind cover too. SCR overheating can be cancelled with a triage hive allowing them to shoot until they hurt themselves. That's not fair. Thats with proto not with all tiers if you throw a triage hive on an adv suit you are beyond foolish.... or lack the genius to properly fit a suit lol and the spool thing is best case scenario... you won't always have cover and seeing as how we don't have deployable cover your argument is void. and the AR scanner combo is okay but still doesn't solve the part where people can out range you still... Director / Slayer / Emperor
gekko k Grundstein Automation Property of Negative-Impact 9	Posted - 2015.02.05 17:39:00 - [29] - Quote All Gucci wrote: gekko k wrote: AR short range drawback can be cancelled with equipment: scanner. Wait until enemy is in range before engaging. RR spool time can be cancelled with cover. Spool up behind cover and then pop out when firing. Cover is universal, which makes this too powerful. Better make the other weapons balanced behind cover too. SCR overheating can be cancelled with a triage hive allowing them to shoot until they hurt themselves. That's not fair. Thats with proto not with all tiers if you throw a triage hive on an adv suit you are beyond foolish.... or lack the genius to properly fit a suit lol and the spool thing is best case scenario... you won't always have cover and seeing as how we don't have deployable cover your argument is void. and the AR scanner combo is okay but still doesn't solve the part where people can out range you still... That was a troll post. It illustrates the absurdity of the claim of the OP. C'mon, the weapons are different. So what. Some have benefits that others do not. They are mostly balanced and that's good enough. Why do they need to be refined further? Ever heard of satisficing?
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 840	Posted - 2015.02.05 17:58:00 - [30] - Quote Myron Kundera wrote: P14GU3 wrote: The disadvantage of the CR is NOT lack of ammo per se, but that it has to reload every 5 secs. If you reload in the middle of a gunfight, you are screwed. This cannot be solved with a nanohive. All of the rifles are actually outperformed by the RR and ARR at the moment. the laser is the only rifle that can compete with the range of the RR, yet it has nowhere near the CQC ability of the RR. ScR and CR are mid-range, yet the RR performs just as well at mid-range. AR is supposed to be the CQC king, but everyone knows both the ARR and CR outperform it in that range. ScR seems to be the only balanced rifle, and yet it seems to perform a little to well in CQC, while not having the range that it should (I blame lack of sharpshooter skill.) I disagree, the lack of ammo IS the disadvantage imo, thats why the Minmatar Assault gets an ammo bonus and not a reload speed bonus. You empty your clip faster than other rifles cause of the insane ROF on the CR, but you also deal your damage faster than the other rifles cause your ROF is higher, therefore, i insist that a new disadvantage must be placed on the CR, considering ammo consumption is a consequence of high ROF and not a hindrance per se. Seeing as how "High Rate of Fire" is a quality of Minmatar tech, I assume you would like to branch this out to the SMG as well? I'm not against discussing this (I personally think that the Min Ass bonus is fine), but it sounds like a targeted attack on a personal problem - "the CR is killing me too often for my taste" - and not a look at the system as a whole. I didn't notice a "SMG is over preforming within its class, too" in your OP or any of your subsequent posts. Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm



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