DUST Search - Do you think it´s fair...

Piercing Serenity wrote:

Myron Kundera wrote:

P14GU3 wrote:

The disadvantage of the CR is NOT lack of ammo per se, but that it has to reload every 5 secs. If you reload in the middle of a gunfight, you are screwed. This cannot be solved with a nanohive.

All of the rifles are actually outperformed by the RR and ARR at the moment. the laser is the only rifle that can compete with the range of the RR, yet it has nowhere near the CQC ability of the RR. ScR and CR are mid-range, yet the RR performs just as well at mid-range. AR is supposed to be the CQC king, but everyone knows both the ARR and CR outperform it in that range.

ScR seems to be the only balanced rifle, and yet it seems to perform a little to well in CQC, while not having the range that it should (I blame lack of sharpshooter skill.)

I disagree, the lack of ammo IS the disadvantage imo, thats why the Minmatar Assault gets an ammo bonus and not a reload speed bonus. You empty your clip faster than other rifles cause of the insane ROF on the CR, but you also deal your damage faster than the other rifles cause your ROF is higher, therefore, i insist that a new disadvantage must be placed on the CR, considering ammo consumption is a consequence of high ROF and not a hindrance per se.

Straight

Seeing as how "High Rate of Fire" is a quality of Minmatar tech, I assume you would like to branch this out to the SMG as well?

I'm not against discussing this (I personally think that the Min Ass bonus is fine), but it sounds like a targeted attack on a personal problem - "the CR is killing me too often for my taste" - and not a look at the system as a whole. I didn't notice a "SMG is over preforming within its class, too" in your OP or any of your subsequent posts.


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Myron Kundera UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 157	Posted - 2015.02.04 18:07:00 - [1] - Quote That of all the main rifles (AR, CR, RR and SCR), only the CR can cancel its main drawback with equipment (ammo hive). Let me elaborate and correct me if im wrong but, the drawbacks of the mentioned rifles (AR, CR, RR and SCR) are as follows: AR- Lowest optimal range. CR- Extremely fast ammo consumption (which in my opinion it-¦s not a calculated drawback, but a consequence of its insane ROF). RR- Spool time to shoot. SCR- Overheating feature that deals damage. Now, of the mentioned drawbacks, you can only cancel the CR drawback with equipment (ammo hive), therefore not being balanced with the rest of the mentioned rifles, considering there is no module or equipment that improves optimal range on rifles, there is no module or equipment that reduces spool time and finally, there is no module or equipment that reduces overheating feature. Even worse, only the Minmatar and Amarr have dropsuits (assault variants) that decrease the drawback of the CR and SCR, therefore leaving the AR and RR in an unbalanced state when facing Minmatar Assaults with CR and Amarr Assaults with SCR. In a nutshell, we need to change the Gallente Assault bonus to an optimal range bonus and the Caldari Assault needs a reduction on spool time. Also, we need to change the drawback of the CR, since it-¦s the only one that can be canceled with equipment. Any ideas in which would be a good penalty or drawback for the CR that can-¦t be canceled with equipment? This is not a QQ thread, it-¦s just pointing out the obvious, the CR has an edge over the other rifle variants cause it can reduce CONSIDERABLY it-¦s drawback with equipment and an assault suit, while the rest of the rifles can-¦t use equipment or modules that reduce drawbacks, with the exception of the SCR, which has the Amarr assault suit. (This makes me understand why Minmatar Assault and Amarr Assault are much better suits than Gallente Assault and Caldari Assaults with the rifles in question). Opinions? "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
Myron Kundera UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 157	Posted - 2015.02.04 18:22:00 - [2] - Quote gekko k wrote: AR short range drawback can be cancelled with equipment: scanner. Wait until enemy is in range before engaging. RR spool time can be cancelled with cover. Spool up behind cover and then pop out when firing. Cover is universal, which makes this too powerful. Better make the other weapons balanced behind cover too. SCR overheating can be cancelled with a triage hive allowing them to shoot until they hurt themselves. That's not fair. Even so, dropping an ammo hive and standing on it is something you control, the things you mention rely on things you dont control (enemy getting closer, you don-¦t always have cover and yes, you control the triage hive deployment, but it does not allow you to fire the SCR endlessly without overheating, the drawbackf of the SCR is the overheat feature, not the damage). "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
Myron Kundera UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 157	Posted - 2015.02.04 18:23:00 - [3] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: the modue/equipment that reduces the overheating feature of the scrambler... is the amaar assault suit Amarr assault is a dropsuit; module and equipment are something completely different...you serious? "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
Myron Kundera UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 157	Posted - 2015.02.04 18:25:00 - [4] - Quote Assert Dominance wrote: the CR range is just as bad as the AR No, i don-¦t think so. CR has better optimal than AR, 100% sure of this. "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
Myron Kundera UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 162	Posted - 2015.02.04 22:06:00 - [5] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Myron Kundera wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: the modue/equipment that reduces the overheating feature of the scrambler... is the amaar assault suit Amarr assault is a dropsuit; module and equipment are something completely different...you serious? no... wait... are YOU serious? beacuase i thought this was a troll thread Im very serious, why would you think this is a troll thread? "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
Myron Kundera UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 162	Posted - 2015.02.04 22:18:00 - [6] - Quote Ok, i have read some derailings on the topic. Ill try to fix this. CR penalty is REDUCED GREATLY by using an equipment (ammo hive). The other rifles can-¦t use modules or equipment to reduce their own pentalties, therefore, the CR has a very clear advantage on all the other rifles. In order to balance them, CR should get a different pentaly that can-¦t be reduced with equipment (losing ammo fast because of high ROF is a consequence, not a disadvantage per se). "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
Myron Kundera UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 165	Posted - 2015.02.05 17:09:00 - [7] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: The disadvantage of the CR is NOT lack of ammo per se, but that it has to reload every 5 secs. If you reload in the middle of a gunfight, you are screwed. This cannot be solved with a nanohive. All of the rifles are actually outperformed by the RR and ARR at the moment. the laser is the only rifle that can compete with the range of the RR, yet it has nowhere near the CQC ability of the RR. ScR and CR are mid-range, yet the RR performs just as well at mid-range. AR is supposed to be the CQC king, but everyone knows both the ARR and CR outperform it in that range. ScR seems to be the only balanced rifle, and yet it seems to perform a little to well in CQC, while not having the range that it should (I blame lack of sharpshooter skill.) I disagree, the lack of ammo IS the disadvantage imo, thats why the Minmatar Assault gets an ammo bonus and not a reload speed bonus. You empty your clip faster than other rifles cause of the insane ROF on the CR, but you also deal your damage faster than the other rifles cause your ROF is higher, therefore, i insist that a new disadvantage must be placed on the CR, considering ammo consumption is a consequence of high ROF and not a hindrance per se. "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
Myron Kundera UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 167	Posted - 2015.02.05 19:34:00 - [8] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: Myron Kundera wrote: P14GU3 wrote: The disadvantage of the CR is NOT lack of ammo per se, but that it has to reload every 5 secs. If you reload in the middle of a gunfight, you are screwed. This cannot be solved with a nanohive. All of the rifles are actually outperformed by the RR and ARR at the moment. the laser is the only rifle that can compete with the range of the RR, yet it has nowhere near the CQC ability of the RR. ScR and CR are mid-range, yet the RR performs just as well at mid-range. AR is supposed to be the CQC king, but everyone knows both the ARR and CR outperform it in that range. ScR seems to be the only balanced rifle, and yet it seems to perform a little to well in CQC, while not having the range that it should (I blame lack of sharpshooter skill.) I disagree, the lack of ammo IS the disadvantage imo, thats why the Minmatar Assault gets an ammo bonus and not a reload speed bonus. You empty your clip faster than other rifles cause of the insane ROF on the CR, but you also deal your damage faster than the other rifles cause your ROF is higher, therefore, i insist that a new disadvantage must be placed on the CR, considering ammo consumption is a consequence of high ROF and not a hindrance per se. Seeing as how "High Rate of Fire" is a quality of Minmatar tech, I assume you would like to branch this out to the SMG as well? I'm not against discussing this (I personally think that the Min Ass bonus is fine), but it sounds like a targeted attack on a personal problem - "the CR is killing me too often for my taste" - and not a look at the system as a whole. I didn't notice a "SMG is over preforming within its class, too" in your OP or any of your subsequent posts. You just reinforced my point, high ROF and its consequence (which is burning ammo fast) is a "quality" of Minmatar tech, therefore it cant be a disadvantage, therefore the CR has NO disadvantage and needs one. It-¦s not a targeted attack, i get killed by plasma cannons, RE, tanks, ARR, RR, grenades, AR (sometimes lol), etc. The point im trying to make is that "CR has a disadvantage that can be GREATLY reduced by equipment and a suit", and the others rifles dont, which imo is unbalanced (Amarr assault is an exception on the overheat issue, but still, theres no equipment or module to reduce overheat). Until we get the Gallente SMG and the Amarr SMG i cant delve into the issue of the SMG being unbalanced or not in this issue cause the other sidearms you can compare them too are nothing alike (pistols, knifes). Still, if a new disadvantage comes out, im game for all the projectile weapons getting it (funny how the HMG has overheat and is a projectile weapon, maybe the answer is to put that same overheat on all projectile weapons, without dealing damage when overheated and maybe call it jam factor? just an idea. If this jam factor disadvantage was applied, Minmatar assault could change its bonus to reduce jam factor, considering the burning ammo can be solved with an ammo hive. "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"